The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

[Deja Entendu]

Doc, he's had 8 years to "get it." He hasn't got it. The end.

Mayfield was 2-5 with the Rams. They decided not to resign Baker and instead replaced him with Stetson Bennett. That should tell you something right there that the Rams believed that they are a better team with a Rookie QB over Mayfield.

Or he decided not to resign with them. He wanted to start and their starter is Stafford.

[Doctor]

Baker could've stayed with the Rams or gone elsewhere for more money, but he isn't beating out Stafford, get real. He wanted a competition. McVay was has repeated his love for Baker, and had this to say about y'all...
"He’s done a great job and if this hasn’t elevated people’s opinions and thoughts of him, I’m not sure what he could’ve done to change whatever the perception is," McVay said. "I just know I think very highly of him and I’ve loved working with him.”

All the silly Holmes coming out telling us "that should tell you"...

The greatest coach of all time didn't want Tom... that should tell you...
The Rams and Giants both ditched Warner... that should tell you...
Vikings and Redskins both moved on Brad Johnson... that should tell you...
Vikings, Redskins, and Chiefs all didn't like Rich Gannon... that should tell you...
Trent Diler and Steve Young couldn't even start for the sucky Bucs... that should tell you...


When did we just submit ourselves to the judgments and opinions of other franchises? Especially lesser ones like Cleveland and Carolina? Like, come on.

[Grahamburn]

Again, that's that hero worshiping, rookie savior, manifest destiny BS. You throw out literally everything else that goes into the game and you put it purely on one guys shoulders.

I get why it's a tempting dogma to have. It gives you hope the inverse is true, and Caleb or whoever can just walk in and cure everything with his two hands.

It's just such a trash philosophy to apply to football.

Doc, he's had 8 years to "get it." He hasn't got it. The end.

Who has had 8 years?

[Buc2]

Doc, he's had 8 years to "get it." He hasn't got it. The end.

Who has had 8 years?

I misinterpreted MJW's comment...thought she was commenting on Jameis Winston with her reply to 13F11B. After rereading it, I see I was wrong. Allen and Mayfield came into the league in 2018. Jameis came into the league in 2015. My bad.

[13F11B]

What's the upside with Baker?

His last name is early in the alphabet? Being excited about Baker is like being excited about saving money on your car insurance with Geico. Same old piece of crap car, but you aren't paying as much for it.

[Snake]

MANY such cases! Crazy physical specimen, and then….

[Doctor]

That could come back to bite them, ala Josh Jacobs, or if we want to keep with Card players ala Hassan Riddick (who would go on to a prove it deal before getting paid by his third team). What the heck is Simmons even labeled as anymore? A CB, LB, S? It's going to huge sticking point should he show out and they try to tag him.

Simmons is a very special use case sort of defender and one you need to put into a position to make plays for your unit. The fact that Ganon is cold on a player like Simmons instead of excited to raise him up speaks to what CJ Gardner was talking about when he called out Ganon after the Super Bowl.

Vance always spoke well of Isiah and how he wanted to use him only to have that get shelved as injuries would force Vance to use Simmons as a multi-position band aid instead of as a starter with his own role. One of the unspoken side effects of regime change is finding your talent now miscast. Maybe the opposite happens and by being put into a single, classic role Isiah opens back up again.

Either way I'd be all for going after him next offseason if he "busts out" of Arizona.

[Nobody]

MANY such cases! Crazy physical specimen, and then….

Lateral explosively, deceleration with balance/control/flexion, start-stop are so profoundly more important than north/south explosivity (ESPECIALLY if you aren’t in control/balance).

The seduction of 40s and verts and broad jumps is not good. I would wager a small fortune that, as a cohort, they don’t correlate tightly to football excellence across the entire population of + players.

I’ll bet that they correlate with increased injuries when coupled with reduced balance, body control, and the ability for connective tissue to decelerate and dissipate the increased load!

[Deja Entendu]

MANY such cases! Crazy physical specimen, and then….

I’d swap him for White

[Snake]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/02/nfl-p ... 732&pid=30

Power rankings are crap, but this gives you a decent idea about how the team is currently perceived.

29th.

[Bootz]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/02/nfl-p ... 732&pid=30

Power rankings are crap, but this gives you a decent idea about how the team is currently perceived.

29th.

Seems about right. We have the absolute worst QB situation in the league. We carried a ton of dead cap and we have a pretty old roster as well.

[Doctor]

Perception. Where were the Lions or Seahawks this time last year?

We're basically using Seattle blueprint for the offense. Only we have a much better defense on the other side and have Baker/Trask > Geno/Lock.

[Bootz]

We mistaking Todd Bowles for Pete Carroll or something? How in the hell are we using the Seahawks blueprint?

[Snake]

Baker/Trask > Geno/Lock.

Not really sure how you’re getting there.

[Bootz]

Baker/Trask > Geno/Lock.

Not really sure how you’re getting there.

I don't think even he knows. Doc has had some kind of LUGZ level meltdown over the past few months to where everything he says is very contentious and passive aggressive.

[_MB_]

We're just not going to look good on paper this year.

[Snake]

Not really sure how you’re getting there.

I don't think even he knows. Doc has had some kind of LUGZ level meltdown over the past few months to where everything he says is very contentious and passive aggressive.

Right. The logic is everyone wrote off the Seahawks because of their quarterback situation going into the season. And he’s positing that Baker/Trask is better on paper than Lock/Smith was on paper…prior to Smith reversing the trajectory on his career.

Maybe. But does it really matter if they were marginally better? For this to work, It’s assuming that Baker or Trask elevates themselves to a nearly top 10 quarterback in the league the same way that Smith did.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to figuring out what we have in Trask as things currently stand. Baker? Meh. Is what he is and his contract says as much. Sort of glad they didn't invest in a QB in this draft, as well. It's a good year to be bad, if that's what happens. and it appears Vegas, most fans, and writers feel that is what is coming.

[Bootz]

I don't think even he knows. Doc has had some kind of LUGZ level meltdown over the past few months to where everything he says is very contentious and passive aggressive.

Right. The logic is everyone wrote off the Seahawks because of their quarterback situation going into the season. And he’s positing that Baker/Trask is better on paper than Lock/Smith was on paper…prior to Smith reversing the trajectory on his career.

Maybe. But does it really matter if they were marginally better? For this to work, It’s assuming that Baker or Trask elevates themselves to a nearly top 10 quarterback in the league the same way that Smith did.

No one is in a position to defend Kyle Trask being better than ANYBODY at this point. Not even Doc is going down that road. The other 3 have at least started a game and played more than a handful of snaps. But saying Baker Mayfield is better than Geno Smith pre-2022 or Drew Lock is a lot of "tallest little person" logic there.

Another thing at play, the 2022 Seahawks did better than the 2022 Bucs. And that's with us having Tom Brady. Doc is counting on Baker or Trask being better than Brady. Good luck there as well.

[Buc2]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/02/nfl-p ... 732&pid=30

Power rankings are crap, but this gives you a decent idea about how the team is currently perceived.

29th.

He really has no idea what they're gonna get from a season of Love, but he has the Packers at 15th? Of course, 15th would mean missing the playoffs, so...

But, yeah, way too early to take any power rankings seriously.

[Doctor]

We mistaking Todd Bowles for Pete Carroll or something? How in the hell are we using the Seahawks blueprint?

Of course not, Bowles has actually fielded a top 10 defense this decade.

No one is in a position to defend Kyle Trask being better than ANYBODY at this point. Not even Doc is going down that road. The other 3 have at least started a game and played more than a handful of snaps. But saying Baker Mayfield is better than Geno Smith pre-2022 or Drew Lock is a lot of "tallest little person" logic there.

True. Likewise the opposite is also true. No one has any position to attack Trask, yet somehow it's become the cool thing to do. I was merely pointing to yet another QB competition that on the surface looked worse than our current one yet bore fruit (I know, I know, the only real way to get a franchise QB is by tanking).

The only thing I've been passive-aggressive towards are people who attack anyone not on the Tank for Caleb wagon and who are already rolled over and shown their underbelly for the season.

Take these power rankings for example. Look at how many teams have huge QB questions yet somehow "hope" is acceptable, even encouraged. But hey, a former #1 with a great list of believers vs a second round pick, well that needs to be trashed because... something something... future resources... something... not tanking... something something...

[Sdbucs]

We mistaking Todd Bowles for Pete Carroll or something? How in the hell are we using the Seahawks blueprint?

Of course not, Bowles has actually fielded a top 10 defense this decade.

No one is in a position to defend Kyle Trask being better than ANYBODY at this point. Not even Doc is going down that road. The other 3 have at least started a game and played more than a handful of snaps. But saying Baker Mayfield is better than Geno Smith pre-2022 or Drew Lock is a lot of "tallest little person" logic there.

True. Likewise the opposite is also true. No one has any position to attack Trask, yet somehow it's become the cool thing to do. I was merely pointing to yet another QB competition that on the surface looked worse than our current one yet bore fruit (I know, I know, the only real way to get a franchise QB is by tanking).

The only thing I've been passive-aggressive towards are people who attack anyone not on the Tank for Caleb wagon and who are already rolled over and shown their underbelly for the season.

Take these power rankings for example. Look at how many teams have huge QB questions yet somehow "hope" is acceptable, even encouraged. But hey, a former #1 with a great list of believers vs a second round pick, well that needs to be trashed because... something something... future resources... something... not tanking... something something...

But Kyle Trask threw a bad pass in training camp and was third on the depth chart!!!!!!! His career is over, haven't you heard?

He actually doesn't look that incredible in the first few minutes of that twitter video there, however.. weak wobbly ball

[Cheb]

A former top overall pick versus an unproven second rounder? Well that's an easy competition. It'll be Baker by a country mile.

[Doctor]

The newly signed Free Agent vs the Day 2 pick, it's a wrap.

[Snake]

Trask and Baker are less talented than everyone in these pictures. Okay, maybe not
Flynn lmao

But point taken.

[Bootz]

Wentz is there for the taking as well

[13F11B]

I have faith in Trask until he blows it for two years. Give the man a chance.

[Bootz]

Trask won't get 2 years.

[13F11B]

Trask won't get 2 years.

Why do you think that? Is it because you expect Bowles to be fired and the new coach will want his own guy?

[Bootz]

Trask won't get 2 years.

Why do you think that? Is it because you expect Bowles to be fired and the new coach will want his own guy?

Because he's not even getting 1 year. Baker Mayfield is the QB here. If we have to go to Trask it likely means it's too late on the season anyway. Trask might play let's say 8-9 games. Unless he's been Superman all along, Bowles/Licht are done.

So 2024 rolls around. Trask is in his contract year. Do I see a new HC/GM being married to Trask? Absolutely not. It's likely a rookie.

[Bootz]

Or am I not reading the room well and we're pretending there's going to be an actual "QB competition"?

[Naismith]

Both QBs will start games this year barring an injury that prevents one from playing at all. They will each get a chance to prove they belong. My feeling is that you can’t win a championship with either guy but strange things happen.

[Bootz]

Both QBs will start games this year barring an injury that prevents one from playing at all. They will each get a chance to prove they belong. My feeling is that you can’t win a championship with either guy but strange things happen.

You're talking as in it'll be week to week as to who starts?

[Obsolete]

When you have 2 qbs, you have 0 qbs.

[Doctor]

Boy it's gonna be fun when we 3peat the division and people are still crying to fire Licht/Bowles because it's the only way they know how to cheer.

[Doctor]

When you have 2 qbs, you have 0 qbs.

Just out of curiosity, how many QBs do the 49ers have? Titans? The Packers? The Packers last year?