Bucs vs Saints Discussion

[Caradoc]

I'm not buying the "Saints are better than their record" either. I'd say that if anything they are worse.

The packers win was more about a horrible day by GB than a great day by NO.
Holding the Pats and GenoSEA to 13 and 10 points isn't exactly a Defensive statement. Hard for any team to lose to those point totals.
Beating WTF is also underwhelming.
And they've lost to both NYG and CAR

You can see Payton leashing in Winston hard. They can't win if he's throwing it and he knows it. They'll beat teams their D can hold to next to no points and not need much from their O, or teams with both bad defenses that they can move the ball more on and weak offenses they can limit. But when they need their O to keep pace with a team their D can't lock down they are going to lose.

Usually teams plan to take the opposing QB out of the game. Last night was a horribly ugly game where you could see both coaches doing everything they possibly could to keep their own QBs out of the game.

[Dread]

I still can't believe the series of blunders in the final 6 minutes from the Seahawks. That's just really bad/undisciplined football you'd expect from a team drafting top 5 next April.

That sack Geno Smith took on 3rd down from the Saints 24yd line was an impressive lack of awareness. You're in range for the go ahead FG for what would've been a 40/41yd attempt. The ONE thing you can't do there as a QB is get fucking sacked.

Not only does Geno get sacked, but an 11yd loss making a high % 40yd attempt a much lower % attempt from 52yds.

Then Seattle's defense has multiple opportunities to hold the Saints out of FG range and send the game to OT but just kept making one mental error after another.

[Pirate Life]

Winston isn’t accurate or smart enough to win without Kamara or that defense. We take away kamara and game over for the aints

winston is first in the league in td% and is the best redzone qb in the nfl lol... he put up 5 tds on the current 5-1 packers and destroyed the washington football team with 4 td passes. Like i said the weather playeda part in his stats tonight.the saints a have a fg kicker( unlike his time in tampa)... your secondary doesnt scare us, and winston is running more now. had 40 yards rushing tonight. Lets just keep talking till this weekend, and see what happens

He didn't destroy Washington if you actually watched the game. Payton actually chewed Winston out several times over boneheaded throws. Winston benefitted from the WFT putting up the worst effort on a Hail Mary anyone has ever seen (not a single defender jumped for the ball), several dropped interceptions, and his receivers bailing him out on bad throws. Truly a game where the stats paint a different story. But hey, putting up stats against the worst defense in the league is an accomplishment surely.

Gotta admit, he did make Rodgers look foolish. Exposed him for the terrible DB we've always thought him to be.

[Dread]

I'm not buying the "Saints are better than their record" either. I'd say that if anything they are worse.

The packers win was more about a horrible day by GB than a great day by NO.
Holding the Pats and GenoSEA to 13 and 10 points isn't exactly a Defensive statement. Hard for any team to lose to those point totals.
Beating WTF is also underwhelming.
And they've lost to both NYG and CAR

You can see Payton leashing in Winston hard. They can't win if he's throwing it and he knows it. They'll beat teams their D can hold to next to no points and not need much from their O, or teams with both bad defenses that they can move the ball more on and weak offenses they can limit. But when they need their O to keep pace with a team their D can't lock down they are going to lose.

Usually teams plan to take the opposing QB out of the game. Last night was a horribly ugly game where you could see both coaches doing everything they possibly could to keep their own QBs out of the game.

They play really good defense. But as long as the Bucs don't turn the ball over and give the Saints short fields I don't believe their offense can score enough.

The Saints offense just struggles to pick up big plays. Mostly b/c their receivers can't separate and QB isn't very accurate, which is a bad combo.

It's really tough to win in the NFL when your offense has to put together 10+ play drives to score points.

The Bucs gamplan needs to be to stop Kamara and don't let anything over their head deep.

Hopefully AB can return. He's a difference maker vs m2m defense and the Saints play more m2m than any other defense.

I expect to see alot of targets to our TEs and slot WR b/c that's where the favorable match-ups are.

The Saints front 4 has been terrible at getting pressure all season. They couldn't even pressure Geno Smith much until late in that game despite the Seahawks Oline being trash and Geno having the pocket presence of mule.

As good as their secondary is, you give Brady time he'll slice you up. I expect the Saints to blitz Their MLB Demario Davis or Safety Malcolm Jenkins to try to rush Brady and live with the consequences.

They trust Lattimore to shut down Evans and whoever they put on Godwin to contain him.

[Pirate Life]

Kamera is really the key to the game to both teams.

[Dread]

Kamera is really the key to the game to both teams.

That is an understatement.

We all know what Kamara can do on the ground and he's obviously their leading rusher.

But here is an interesting stat I don't I've ever seen before; Kamara is not only leads the Saints in receptions (25, next closest has 16) but he has 241 receiving yards and 243 YAC (Yards After the Catch). That's right, his YAC total is +2 more than his receiving yards total. I can't say I've ever seen that from a teams leading receiver.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/n ... s/dir/desc

[ATrain]

Fortunately for us, the Saints only real weapon on offense runs directly through the strength of our defense: Our front 7.

If LVD is back, he and White should kill any runs/passes to Kamara on the perimeter and Vea and company should shut down anything up the gut.

The only question is how much we should dare Winston to throw with our secondary coverage schemes. Maybe just run base Cover 2 and trust our front to stop the run and keep big plays to a minimum in the passing game.

[Dread]

Fortunately for us, the Saints only real weapon on offense runs directly through the strength of our defense: Our front 7.

If LVD is back, he and White should kill any runs/passes to Kamara on the perimeter and Vea and company should shut down anything up the gut.

The only question is how much we should dare Winston to throw with our secondary coverage schemes. Maybe just run base Cover 2 and trust our front to stop the run and keep big plays to a minimum in the passing game.

Yup, make Jameis throw intermediate passes to someone other than Kamara. So basically don't let the ball over your head when the Saints try a deep shot to Kenny Stills or Deonte Harris (if he returns from his hamstring injury) and don't let Kamara have a big day. AK will get his touches, they forced feed him after all. But just keep him in check and understand he's who they are looking to get the ball to.

Despite Winston's 13/3 TD/INT ratio he's nearly dead last among NFL starting QBs in completion %, yards per game, and attempts. So until he and the Saints receivers prove otherwise the gameplan has to be to make them beat you.

[mdb1958]

Fortunately for us, the Saints only real weapon on offense runs directly through the strength of our defense: Our front 7.

If LVD is back, he and White should kill any runs/passes to Kamara on the perimeter and Vea and company should shut down anything up the gut.

The only question is how much we should dare Winston to throw with our secondary coverage schemes. Maybe just run base Cover 2 and trust our front to stop the run and keep big plays to a minimum in the passing game.

Yup, make Jameis throw intermediate passes to someone other than Kamara. So basically don't let the ball over your head when the Saints try a deep shot to Kenny Stills or Deonte Harris (if he returns from his hamstring injury) and don't let Kamara have a big day. AK will get his touches, they forced feed him after all. But just keep him in check and understand he's who they are looking to get the ball to.

Despite Winston's 13/3 TD/INT ratio he's nearly dead last among NFL starting QBs in completion %, yards per game, and attempts. So until he and the Saints receivers prove otherwise the gameplan has to be to make them beat you.

Good thing we let Winston see how many time Fields escaped us.

[ATrain]

Man, not sure how I feel about Brady's comments last night on the Manning Cast about defenses. I know he's joking around but it's not like we need any larger a target painted on our backs.

[mdb1958]

List a bunch of categories and the key is for us to be more physical in all of them.

If we accept beat downs, it's high time we start giving them. I want to see crunching tackles that do not make the deliverer get hurt.

Do we have a rib breaking linebacker? Does our whole DB backfield have a separate drawer with silk panties?

The Saints attitude with us is they believe if both teams went to the bar the Bucs would get the crap stomped out of them.

I feel the Bears thought like that too!

Time to change it.

[13F11B]

Man, not sure how I feel about Brady's comments last night on the Manning Cast about defenses. I know he's joking around but it's not like we need any larger a target painted on our backs.

What comment was that?

[ATrain]

Man, not sure how I feel about Brady's comments last night on the Manning Cast about defenses. I know he's joking around but it's not like we need any larger a target painted on our backs.

What comment was that?

[Dread]

List a bunch of categories and the key is for us to be more physical in all of them.

If we accept beat downs, it's high time we start giving them. I want to see crunching tackles that do not make the deliverer get hurt.

Do we have a rib breaking linebacker? Does our whole DB backfield have a separate drawer with silk panties?

The Saints attitude with us is they believe if both teams went to the bar the Bucs would get the crap stomped out of them.

I feel the Bears thought like that too!

Time to change it.

It's a division rivalry with alot of bad blood given the recent history last year. This game won't lack in physicality from either side.

The Saints will want to muddy the game up and make it chippy. They are the less talented team so it's advantageous for them to play that way.

To your point the Bucs just need to bring the intensity, especially on offense so we can match the physical tone the Saints defense will want to set.

Emotions aside, I think the Saints know they can't pressure Brady with just their front 4 vs our Oline and what that lack of pressure would result in (Brady picking the secondary apart), so I expect Dennis Allen to dial up alot of 5-6 man pressures leaving his CBs 1v1 on the outside.

[mdb1958]

@Dread , I'm speaking in terms of why the Saints hold a 37-21 record against us.

[Buc2]

@Dread , I'm speaking in terms of why the Saints hold a 37-21 record against us.

That's easy. Because for the vast majority of the history of this franchise, the Bucs have been total suck.

[mdb1958]

And we hold our worst losing record in the league with the Bears.

[mdb1958]

@Dread , I'm speaking in terms of why the Saints hold a 37-21 record against us.

That's easy. Because for the vast majority of the history of this franchise, the Bucs have been total suck.

Because of being physically out played the majority of the time. The plays that allowed the game that never was, come from being physically beaten to allow the come back.
My opinion.

[mdb1958]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

[ATrain]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

And the team has been dogshit that entire time until Brady came into the mix.

[mdb1958]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

And the team has been dogshit that entire time until Brady came into the mix.

Well that explains why Demario Davis thinks we (Saints) are going to do what we do.

[13F11B]

What comment was that?

I think it is more likely that dog owners will be upset than defensive players.

[mdb1958]

His mindset says it all. Doesnt matter who you are - we will do what we do...

[Buc2]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

And? Except for last year, we sucked most of those years.

2010 = 10-6 - (1-1 v Saints)
2011 = 4-12 - (1-1 v Saints)
2012 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2013 = 4-12 - (0-2 v Saints)
2014 = 2-14 - (0-2 v Saints)
2015 = 6-10 - (1-1 v Saints)
2016 = 9-7 - (1-1 v Saints)
2017 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2018 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2019 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2020 = 11-5 - (0-2 v Saints)

That's 70-106 W/L record for a whopping 0.398 win pct. (0.273 v Saints)

[Dread]

@Dread , I'm speaking in terms of why the Saints hold a 37-21 record against us.

Anything that happened with this franchise prior to Tom Brady signing here is pretty irrelevant to me if you're implying it plays any factor this season.

But you do you.

[mdb1958]

@Dread , I'm speaking in terms of why the Saints hold a 37-21 record against us.

Anything that happened with this franchise prior to Tom Brady signing here is pretty irrelevant to me if you're implying it plays any factor this season.

But you do you.

Teams are playing more physical than us since Tom, you do realize that don't you.

[Doooshnzl]

After all of the losses in the secondary, as well as JPP and LVD for multiple games, it seems like our D is starting to feel itself again. The pass rush seem to getting home a bit more with 3 sacks the 1st three games and 13 in the last 4. In addition, it looks like Bowles has figured out how to take away the quick perimeter pass game that QB's had so much success with early.

Hopefully we can get past Jameis and his mighty mighty Saints next week, get healed up over the bye and come back with a full roster. The experience these young guys have gotten filling in will certainly pay dividends as the season wears on.

I think the way this group has performed under very difficult personnel conditions is being somewhat glossed over. I get that our last 3 opponents were bottom feeders but this is the NFL and the best teams have to and do find a way to keep focus and get the job done.

There is some outrageously good football being played right now, especially in the NFC. Gonna be a fun second half of the season...

[mdb1958]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

And? Except for last year, we sucked most of those years.

2010 = 10-6 - (1-1 v Saints)
2011 = 4-12 - (1-1 v Saints)
2012 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2013 = 4-12 - (0-2 v Saints)
2014 = 2-14 - (0-2 v Saints)
2015 = 6-10 - (1-1 v Saints)
2016 = 9-7 - (1-1 v Saints)
2017 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2018 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2019 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2020 = 11-5 - (0-2 v Saints)

That's 70-106 W/L record for a whopping 0.398 win pct. (0.273 v Saints)

Drop your blanky and go read the last sentence of my original post.

[mdb1958]

After all of the losses in the secondary, as well as JPP and LVD for multiple games, it seems like our D is starting to feel itself again. The pass rush seem to getting home a bit more with 3 sacks the 1st three games and 13 in the last 4. In addition, it looks like Bowles has figured out how to take away the quick perimeter pass game that QB's had so much success with early.

Hopefully we can get past Jameis and his mighty mighty Saints next week, get healed up over the bye and come back with a full roster. The experience these young guys have gotten filling in will certainly pay dividends as the season wears on.

I think the way this group has performed under very difficult personnel conditions is being somewhat glossed over. I get that our last 3 opponents were bottom feeders but this is the NFL and the best teams have to and do find a way to keep focus and get the job done.

There is some outrageously good football being played right now, especially in the NFC. Gonna be a fun second half of the season...

We are starting the game on defense with 2 big uns in the middle, 4 linebackers, and 5 DB's.

[Buc2]

And? Except for last year, we sucked most of those years.

2010 = 10-6 - (1-1 v Saints)
2011 = 4-12 - (1-1 v Saints)
2012 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2013 = 4-12 - (0-2 v Saints)
2014 = 2-14 - (0-2 v Saints)
2015 = 6-10 - (1-1 v Saints)
2016 = 9-7 - (1-1 v Saints)
2017 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2018 = 5-11 - (1-1 v Saints)
2019 = 7-9 - (0-2 v Saints)
2020 = 11-5 - (0-2 v Saints)

That's 70-106 W/L record for a whopping 0.398 win pct. (0.273 v Saints)

Drop your blanky and go read the last sentence of my original post.

No.

[mdb1958]

Drop your blanky and go read the last sentence of my original post.

No.

From my perspective I want to dominate and destroy in all remaining division games. No namby pamby talk of eeking out a good win against a really tough team bull.

[BucFanClw]

No.

From my perspective I want to dominate and destroy in all remaining division games. No namby pamby talk of eeking out a good win against a really tough team bull.

What difference does it make? A win is a win.

[Jason Bourne]

From my perspective I want to dominate and destroy in all remaining division games. No namby pamby talk of eeking out a good win against a really tough team bull.

What difference does it make? A win is a win.

Yep and we won the last game we played them, what happened years ago doesn’t matter one bit.

[Dread]

Anything that happened with this franchise prior to Tom Brady signing here is pretty irrelevant to me if you're implying it plays any factor this season.

But you do you.

Teams are playing more physical than us since Tom, you do realize that don't you.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion of course, but I disagree teams are more physical than us. Defensively there is no team more physical than the Bucs and offensively we have one of the better Oline's in football right now. We have two physical RBs who run well downhill and a physical receivers in the passing game like Evans, Godwin and Gronk.

If that isn't enough, we've also won 14 of our last 15 games. So whatever we're doing seems to be working pretty well.

[BlackTrumpFan]

Since 2010 the Saints are 16-6 against us

And the team has been dogshit that entire time until Brady came into the mix.

Then explain the 2 losses last year lol

Also winston had a 57 yard td throw againist yall in the playoffs. When drew Bree’s couldn’t bust a grape