2022 Offseason Thread

[mdb1958]

Also, if Tom requested a trade that would net us a couple first rounders we would be stupid not to do it.

[MJW]

I've read that according to GMs, Saquan Barkley is valued as roughly a 4th rounder in trade right now. Read into the anonymous-ness of that what you will. But that makes sense to me. The Giants will be looking to sell, since they'll save $7 mil on the cap by doing so. Barkley hasn't played a full season since his rookie year and hasn't been an effective player since 2019 (and he wasn't as good that year as he was his rookie year.) He's also an UFA after the season and unless he has a bounce-back CPOTY type season, he's not getting an extension from anyone. At least not one that pays him that much. He's probably looking at a Leonard Fournette type deal next.

This is your periodic reminder that investing high draft picks or huge extensions in running backs is dumb.

[MJW]

I've read that according to GMs, Saquan Barkley is valued as roughly a 4th rounder in trade right now. Read into the anonymous-ness of that what you will. But that makes sense to me. The Giants will be looking to sell, since they'll save $7 mil on the cap by doing so. Barkley hasn't played a full season since his rookie year and hasn't been an effective player since 2019 (and he wasn't as good that year as he was his rookie year.) He's also an UFA after the season and unless he has a bounce-back CPOTY type season, he's not getting an extension from anyone. At least not one that pays him that much. He's probably looking at a Leonard Fournette type deal next.

This is your periodic reminder that investing high draft picks or huge extensions in running backs is dumb.

Don't disagree at all with premise of your post but the situation makes bums me out. Barely seems like a great kid, obviously a beast on the football field but went to a shit team that somehow has gotten worse since he was what? #2 overall? Shit Oline, Shit coaches as well as can't stay healthy.

Fucking football success is so incredibly finite.

Yeah, he's been unlucky, and the Giants have failed to help him out on so many levels. No arguments. Football is a cruel friggin god.

[Phantom]

The Dallas Cowboys are "likely" to move on from Amari Cooper, per Adam Schefter.

Miami bound?

[mdb1958]

What thread has the combine talk?

[Grahamburn]

What thread has the combine talk?

Draft Forum.

[Doctor]

The Dallas Cowboys are "likely" to move on from Amari Cooper, per Adam Schefter.

Miami bound?

I could see that. Miami should throw the bank at Adams but in typical fashion they'll refuse to "overpay" and then pay someone else 95% as much for 70% of the talent.

[MJW]

The Dallas Cowboys are "likely" to move on from Amari Cooper, per Adam Schefter.

Miami bound?

I could see that. Miami should throw the bank at Adams but in typical fashion they'll refuse to "overpay" and then pay someone else 95% as much for 70% of the talent.

It is me or has Cooper largely been a disappointment in the league? He's had some MONSTER games. He's usually good for a couple of those a season. But he has many, many more games where he's either invisible and/or all his touches are manufactured. His first few months this year are a good example. He had 13-139 to open the season against us. Then he 8-122 against the Vikings on Halloween. In between that, he topped 3 catches in a game once and didn't top 70 yards.

He's a good player, he has 7 years of experience (and is still only 27) and he's capable of having those huge games. But no way do I want him to be my #1 receiver. And I'm not interested in paying him like one, either.

[Doctor]

You're not wrong, but someone is going to see him and pay him as one. He isn't an every-team alpha ala Adams, but he can definitely eat on the right team.

[uscbucsfan]

I could see that. Miami should throw the bank at Adams but in typical fashion they'll refuse to "overpay" and then pay someone else 95% as much for 70% of the talent.

It is me or has Cooper largely been a disappointment in the league? He's had some MONSTER games. He's usually good for a couple of those a season. But he has many, many more games where he's either invisible and/or all his touches are manufactured. His first few months this year are a good example. He had 13-139 to open the season against us. Then he 8-122 against the Vikings on Halloween. In between that, he topped 3 catches in a game once and didn't top 70 yards.

He's a good player, he has 7 years of experience (and is still only 27) and he's capable of having those huge games. But no way do I want him to be my #1 receiver. And I'm not interested in paying him like one, either.

The same is said about Mike Evans, plus Cooper has been the top 3 in the NFL in drawing double coverage 3 years in a row.

He was 2nd last year to Adams.

[Dread]

He went to Jax with Mike Caldwell.

I don't think we get a pick for that, unless he's a minority, and even then I'm not 100% sure. Maybe someone can clear this up? I dunno.

Comp picks are only awarded when a team hires a minority specifically to be the Head Coach or General Manager.

[Crocaneers]

Falcons are improving <insert purple font>

[Snake]

Didn’t get life? Okay then.

[BJJ34]

Didn’t get life? Okay then.

Me and a client from work were talking about what could be possible for a year. I said no way it’s gambling as that’s an immediate lifetime ban.

[Snake]

Calvin “BJJ” Ridley

https://mobile.twitter.com/CalvinRidley1

“I bet 1500 total I don’t have a gambling problem”

“I learn from my Ls”

“I couldn’t even watch football at that point”

[nybf]

Most reports have said suspended indefinitely, at least one year.

[Dread]

Word is he bet on Falcons games, which helps justify the ban

[IronDog]

See Pete Rose

[uscbucsfan]

See Pete Rose

Not quite the same here.

He wasn't playing for the Falcons during the time...nor was he managing.

He had 0 impact on the outcome and wasn't reporting to the facilities.

Stupid, warrants punishment, but not the lifetime type.

[BJJ34]

Jesus Rodgers. 4 years 200 million deal for Rodgers. 153 guaranteed as reported by Ian Rapoport.

[Snake]

Good for Green Bay. Good for him.

[BJJ34]

Good for Green Bay. Good for him.

Even better for us. We got value with Brady in his two years, and got a ring.

[Doctor]

Dallas and Miami FT their TEs too.

Damn, that tag must be cheap.

[Primeminister]

[Snake]

What the fuck…

[kaimaru]

~$10 MMish?

Close, $10,931,000.

[nybf]

[Snake]

Seahawks release Bobby Wagner. Scored earth in Seattle.

[MJW]

Seahawks release Bobby Wagner. Scored earth in Seattle.

They looked at their 53, their salary cap situation, and their division/conference, and said "We're not close right now." So they're going ahead, clearing cap room with older players like Wagner, and dealing aging assets like Wilson.

This is the way. No half-measures. No "let's try to go 10-7 and see what happens."

I wish OBP would fully embrace this mentality. Instead, we're most likely going to spackle and pray. And to be clear, the Seahawks were no further away from competing with Wilson than we are without Brady.

[Nano]

Seahawks release Bobby Wagner. Scored earth in Seattle.

They looked at their 53, their salary cap situation, and their division/conference, and said "We're not close right now." So they're going ahead, clearing cap room with older players like Wagner, and dealing aging assets like Wilson.

This is the way. No half-measures. No "let's try to go 10-7 and see what happens."

I wish OBP would fully embrace this mentality. Instead, we're most likely going to spackle and pray. And to be clear, the Seahawks were no further away from competing with Wilson than we are without Brady.

Yeah, but the Seahawks know how to actually rebuild a team and actually build a consistent contender(even if they've forgotten recently).

We don't. I don't blame OBP for holding on for any semblance of hope possible as everyone knows the second we accept that rebuild mentality...it's officially over. We go back to the team that has two (barely) winning seasons a decade and spends most of the years picking in the top 10.

[MJW]

They looked at their 53, their salary cap situation, and their division/conference, and said "We're not close right now." So they're going ahead, clearing cap room with older players like Wagner, and dealing aging assets like Wilson.

This is the way. No half-measures. No "let's try to go 10-7 and see what happens."

I wish OBP would fully embrace this mentality. Instead, we're most likely going to spackle and pray. And to be clear, the Seahawks were no further away from competing with Wilson than we are without Brady.

Yeah, but the Seahawks know how to actually rebuild a team and actually build a consistent contender(even if they've forgotten recently).

We don't. I don't blame OBP for holding on for any semblance of hope possible as everyone knows the second we accept that rebuild mentality...it's officially over. We go back to the team that has two (barely) winning seasons a decade and spends most of the years picking in the top 10.

Yep. It's inevitable. And we're going to waste 1-3 years dragging it out because BA wants no part of a rebuild at his age. And it stinks, because we still do have a lot of young talent. We're going to waste some primes this way.

[Nobody]

From the draft last year to this point this year really has been a calamity personnel-wise, placing the trajectory of this franchise in serious peril.

1) 2021 draft nets zero consequential contributors in same year (contrast with KC, the team we played in the Super Bowl).

* Our hopeful 1st round pick doesn’t get nearly the snaps he should have. When he does he spends far too much time on gimmick sub package assignments (lots of coverage, spying, Twists and from 2nd level or iDL), struggles in the run game and finishing, but shows juice when straight up coming off the edge.

* Late rd picks are the only other contributors. They play solid enough STs but on an absolute bottom tier unit and neither has any speed or coverage instincts to actually project to a full time LBer.

* Gimmick 4th rounder was injured, showed terrible actual football speed and open field instincts on top of having problems catching the football. Clearly neither route-running advanced nor a tackle breaker.

* 2nd and 3rd rd picks complete unknown after non-factor redshirt seasons.

* This is all made much worse by the reality that Creed Humphrey, top 3 Center in the NFL as a rookie (!), was taken one pick before us…in a year where we’re facing the prospect of losing not one…not two…but all 3 iOL. All we would have needed to do when he was falling was give someone above us the 4th rd pick we wasted on a WR.

2) Brady retires leaving us facing down the specter of going from top 3 NFL QB room to the worst 2022 QB room in the NFL.

3) Marpet retires and our bad iOL situation goes to Defcon 5 (in an off-season where we lose the most OL-friendly QB of all time…and in a scheme that is as demanding on OL as it gets).

4) Godwin is tagged for a 2nd year rather than a long term deal (a) ballooning his potential cap number, (b) very possibly revealing that he doesn’t want to be here, (c) basically costing us CD3 and crippling our already shaky CB room, (d) seriously damaging our prospects (due to that big 2022 #) of bringing back some healthy combination of Jensen, Cappa, Whitehead, Gholston.

5) Unlike days of yore where we had top 3 NFL draft capital and #1 FA capital for 7 years to spend to help invest this team with talent, we’re bleeding players and we’re bottom tier in the NFL in capital.


—————

Not great.

[MJW]

From the draft last year to this point this year really has been a calamity personnel-wise, placing the trajectory of this franchise in serious peril.

1) 2021 draft nets zero consequential contributors in same year (contrast with KC, the team we played in the Super Bowl).

* Our hopeful 1st round pick doesn’t get nearly the snaps he should have. When he does he spends far too much time on gimmick sub package assignments (lots of coverage, spying, Twists and from 2nd level or iDL), struggles in the run game and finishing, but shows juice when straight up coming off the edge.

* Late rd picks are the only other contributors. They play solid enough STs but on an absolute bottom tier unit and neither has any speed or coverage instincts to actually project to a full time LBer.

* Gimmick 4th rounder was injured, showed terrible actual football speed and open field instincts on top of having problems catching the football. Clearly neither route-running advanced nor a tackle breaker.

* 2nd and 3rd rd picks complete unknown after non-factor redshirt seasons.

* This is all made much worse by the reality that Creed Humphrey, top 3 Center in the NFL as a rookie (!), was taken one pick before us…in a year where we’re facing the prospect of losing not one…not two…but all 3 iOL. All we would have needed to do when he was falling was give someone above us the 4th rd pick we wasted on a WR.

2) Brady retires leaving us facing down the specter of going from top 3 NFL QB room to the worst 2022 QB room in the NFL.

3) Marpet retires and our bad iOL situation goes to Defcon 5 (in an off-season where we lose the most OL-friendly QB of all time…and in a scheme that is as demanding on OL as it gets).

4) Godwin is tagged for a 2nd year rather than a long term deal (a) ballooning his cap number, (b) very possibly revealing that he doesn’t want to be here, (c) basically costing us CD3 and crippling our already shaky CB room, (d) seriously damaging our prospects (due to that big 2022 #) of bringing back some healthy combination of Jensen, Cappa, Whitehead, Gholston.

5) Unlike days of yore where we had top 3 NFL draft capital and #1 FA capital for 7 years to spend to help invest this team with talent, we’re bleeding players and we’re bottom tier in the NFL in capital.


—————

Not great.

As usual, a thorough and thoughtful breakdown.

Some points:

- The 2021 draft actually gave me a bit of hope, in the sense that it was forward-thinking. I know I'm terrified of the idea (which I believe to be correct) that BA is going to kamikaze the roster for a shot at one more ring. But the 2021 draft wasn't about 2021. IF we're going to see it pay dividends, it will start to do so now. Unfortunately, as you note, the early returns are not encouraging.

- JTS showed a ton of juice. He was perhaps one mental tick away from finishing a dozen big plays. Hopefully (and I think this is what will happen) he speeds up just that little bit in his second year. I agree 110% about the way he was used. So many cute and clever stunts and twists and games. I want to see more of him lining up on the edge and trying to beat his man.

- Trask and Hainsey, who knows? We have no more idea if they can play now than we did a year ago. The only thing they demonstrated is that BA is very cautious with playing pups. Nick Leverett was a joke, but Hainsey couldn't get in. Trask couldn't even hold a clipboard. Who knows how many valuable mop-up snaps he could have gotten? Blah.

- Darden was a disappointment. Slower than advertised. Predictably not physical. Worst of all, in the return game he reminded me A TON of App State's Dexter Jackson. He seemed afraid of contact and brought himself down prematurely. You can't be an effective returner if you play afraid.

- Stuard is a keeper as a special teamer. I value that, especially as Mr. Irrelevant. I could see him playing that role for a decade in the league. And I think there's at least a chance that Britt gets the Minter job this year and perhaps shows enough to supplant LVD a year after that.

- Both lines need to be rebuilt. There's no other way to put it. I think we'll bring back Cappa, and barring that, Stinnie. Perhaps both, with the intention of shifting one of them to the left side and going from there. Seems like we want to keep Jensen, but he might be too expensive. I can see the Bengals making him the highest paid center in the league. And then there's the (lack of) depth. I'm hoping Hainsey can contribute.

On the other side, what can be said? LIcht has basically ignored the DL as GM, with the notable exception of the Vita Vea pick. Now the chickens are coming home. Paying Suh would be a folly. Gholston SHOULD be back, but he's never been more than a nice player, not foundational. We need 3 new defensive linemen - one with real promise, a veteran who can eat snaps, and a quality depth guy. And no, I haven't forgotten about Nacho. I just don't see him for more than he is.

- We have very, very few routes to improving this 53. We will be significantly WORSE after this free agency, not better. We have 6 picks total, none before 27. And we don't have a quarterback.

- The more I think about the Godwin situation, the more I get irritated. Tagging him isn't a victory, even if OBP is trying to frame it that way. We had 2 years to work out a long-term deal. Because we couldn't do that, we've now paid him $35 mil with no long-term benefit to the cap or the franchise. We've most likely cost ourselves Carlton Davis. We're going to be back in the same spot with him again next year.

Yeah, the Chiefs had a great draft, and the Humphrey pick was a grand-slam. But that's their business. You can drive yourself crazy thinking that way.

[Nobody]

@MJW The point about the Chiefs wasn’t to lament.

The point about the Chiefs is that its a nuke from orbit to the misbegotten premise that x-year draft capital doesn’t/can’t turn into meaningful (if not titanic) immediate returns.

That already falsified hypothesis gets thrown around these parts a lot despite a robust suite of contravening evidence (of which the Chiefs are the mother load because not only did they do it, not only was it titanic returns, but their draft capital was basically the same as ours!).

[Primeminister]

The only hope that I have is this: this front office built the Súper Bowl team. Most of that team was drafted & a number of key players were drafted in 2020 proving @Nobody’s point that rookie picks can make a difference on a SB team.

If Licht has a gift for picking a particular group I’d say it’s OL which we just so happen to need badly now. The draft depth lines up well for our OL/DL needs. Now it’s up to Licht to make the right calls.

I believe Licht can do it again.