The Official 2025 Off-Season Thread

[Bootz]

So you’re saying the Packers are the best defense in football, right? Since you’re basically saying they had no room for improvement……

It would be like us trading 2 firsts for Brian Thomas Jr., and paying him 50/yr. Is our offense better? Sure. Does it move the needle? meh ...

Brian Thomas isn’t even a top 10 WR. Parsons is a top 10 overall DEFENDER.

And your logic is all over the place. If it doesn’t move the needle, adding a top 10 player, then they were already the best then, right?

[Grahamburn]

We should have gotten Micah. I'm gonna be bitter as hell about that all year

We don’t know where the picks end up or who they end up being, but it was basically Vita plus two 1sts for us as a similar deal to what GB gave up.

People keep saying, “well they’ll obviously be late picks,” but you don’t really know that. Cleveland thought all the picks they gave up for Watson would be late too.

Couple guys get hurt or don’t perform and all of a sudden you’re in the top 5.

I don’t know. That’s tough. Especially the way Licht and his team have drafted the last few years.

[__Chef__]

So I was right, then.

Always.

[Sooner06]

Last year, GB-D finished 10th overall.

Opponent Points Per Game: 5th (19.9)
Total Yards Allowed: 6th (314.5)
Average Yards Per Play: Tied for 4th
First Downs Allowed: 11th


The addition of Parsons probably puts them inside the top 5, imo. Obviously, assuming he’s really healthy and they don’t use him stupidly.

[Backside]

So you’re saying the Packers are the best defense in football, right? Since you’re basically saying they had no room for improvement……

It would be like us trading 2 firsts for Brian Thomas Jr., and paying him 50/yr. Is our offense better? Sure. Does it move the needle? meh ...

Uh, I don't see how is it like that at all. That seems like really bad analysis, it looks more like coping to me.

Kind of funny that you a certain a top tier Bucs offense will get better this year (most analysts predict the opposite btw). But a good Packers defense won't get any better after adding one of the best players in the league (most everyone predicts the opposite btw)

I enjoy being a homer as much as anyone, but what you are saying really strains credulity.

[Central_Buc]

Last year, GB-D finished 10th overall.

Opponent Points Per Game: 5th (19.9)
Total Yards Allowed: 6th (314.5)
Average Yards Per Play: Tied for 4th
First Downs Allowed: 11th


The addition of Parsons probably puts them inside the top 5, imo. Obviously, assuming he’s really healthy and they don’t use him stupidly.

Definitely not box office potential like we are.

[Swashbuckler]

We should have gotten Micah. I'm gonna be bitter as hell about that all year

We don’t know where the picks end up or who they end up being, but it was basically Vita plus two 1sts for us as a similar deal to what GB gave up.

People keep saying, “well they’ll obviously be late picks,” but you don’t really know that. Cleveland thought all the picks they gave up for Watson would be late too.

Couple guys get hurt or don’t perform and all of a sudden you’re in the top 5.

I don’t know. That’s tough. Especially the way Licht and his team have drafted the last few years.

I mean I understand what you're getting at. But there's no scenario where Dallas can ask for Vea coming back given that Parsons was never going to sign. I'd have just tossed 3 1st rounders and called it a day. I could give a damn what pick 32 turns in to

[Bootz]

Last year, GB-D finished 10th overall.

Opponent Points Per Game: 5th (19.9)
Total Yards Allowed: 6th (314.5)
Average Yards Per Play: Tied for 4th
First Downs Allowed: 11th


The addition of Parsons probably puts them inside the top 5, imo. Obviously, assuming he’s really healthy and they don’t use him stupidly.

This. I truly dont get the logic from @__Chef__

The #5 defense adds a top 10 game wrecker and it doesn't move the needle. But the #3 offense adds 2 rookie WRs and they'll be even better than they were last year.

[__Chef__]

Last year, GB-D finished 10th overall.

Opponent Points Per Game: 5th (19.9)
Total Yards Allowed: 6th (314.5)
Average Yards Per Play: Tied for 4th
First Downs Allowed: 11th


The addition of Parsons probably puts them inside the top 5, imo. Obviously, assuming he’s really healthy and they don’t use him stupidly.

This. I truly dont get the logic from @__Chef__

The #5 defense adds a top 10 game wrecker and it doesn't move the needle. But the #3 offense adds 2 rookie WRs and they'll be even better than they were last year.

I didn't say they won't be better defensively.

I said (from the beginning) it would have made more sense for our team to make this move than Greenbay. With this addition, Greenbay doesn't move into SB contention.

In fact, I'll put something on it.

If GB meets up against our team in the playoffs, we knock them out. Parsons and all. What's your wager?

[Grahamburn]

We don’t know where the picks end up or who they end up being, but it was basically Vita plus two 1sts for us as a similar deal to what GB gave up.

People keep saying, “well they’ll obviously be late picks,” but you don’t really know that. Cleveland thought all the picks they gave up for Watson would be late too.

Couple guys get hurt or don’t perform and all of a sudden you’re in the top 5.

I don’t know. That’s tough. Especially the way Licht and his team have drafted the last few years.

I mean I understand what you're getting at. But there's no scenario where Dallas can ask for Vea coming back given that Parsons was never going to sign. I'd have just tossed 3 1st rounders and called it a day. I could give a damn what pick 32 turns in to

3 firsts is pretty extreme. If you could do two and YaYa or Braswell it makes more sense, but seemed like Dallas wanted the interior player, and taking Vita out of this defense is like removing our heart.

There’s also the contract caveat and there are a lot of homegrown Bucs needing new deals after this season.

You’re going to lose those guys and then not have the picks to replace them.

[Snake]

Micah’s impact - and players like him - goes beyond the basic stat sheet. Pencil in a sack per game, yes.

He also distorts a game plan. Now the opposing team must incorporate more quick passes, screen passes the other way. He’s going to be double’d every other pass play. That’s 30+ plays per game.

[Bootz]

This. I truly dont get the logic from @__Chef__

The #5 defense adds a top 10 game wrecker and it doesn't move the needle. But the #3 offense adds 2 rookie WRs and they'll be even better than they were last year.

I didn't say they won't be better defensively.

I said (from the beginning) it would have made more sense for our team to make this move than Greenbay. With this addition, Greenbay doesn't move into SB contention.

In fact, I'll put something on it.

If GB meets up against our team in the playoffs, we knock them out. Parsons and all. What's your wager?

I know what you said. You said he doesn't move the needle for them.

Players like him ARE the needle. As @Snake stated here, his impact goes beyond the stats sheet. Offenses have to account for him at all times. It's completely asinine to suggest his addition doesn't mean that much.

[__Chef__]

Yeah but both those guys are not out there and 29.

I would've done the trade. I think he's worth it and under Bowles would've been his ultimate peak. Our window would've skyrocketed for this year.

But that contract is heavy. And losing Zyon may be tolerable if Benjamin works out and stays healthy, Dean too on the cheap, and Parrish. But losing Luke would suck. Maybe Ben can learn the position quickly and be another Licht OT home runs, but that's a swing. Finally you have Hassan, who is he is what we think he is is going to get deservedly paid.

It would've been a bold swing and I would've liked it but I totally get wanting to bet on the whole. If this roster can peak and we can resign our guys that turns a 1-2 year window into a 3-4 one. Draft well, resign early, take your shots.

Agreed-ish.

I think the deal would have made more sense for us to do than the Packers. I don't think they're a pass rusher away from contending where as that was an explicit weak spot for us last year. I still say that contract & trade is way too heavy a lift, but at least it makes sense to try and push our roster over the hump.

For Dallas, it makes no sense in a vacuum because it signals rebuild mode while the rest of the roster isn't.

I hope Reddick can bring it this year.

@Bootz there's my first take on the matter.

Having said that, what's your wager?

[Sooner06]

I mean I understand what you're getting at. But there's no scenario where Dallas can ask for Vea coming back given that Parsons was never going to sign. I'd have just tossed 3 1st rounders and called it a day. I could give a damn what pick 32 turns in to

3 firsts is pretty extreme. If you could do two and YaYa or Braswell it makes more sense, but seemed like Dallas wanted the interior player, and taking Vita out of this defense is like removing our heart.

There’s also the contract caveat and there are a lot of homegrown Bucs needing new deals after this season.

You’re going to lose those guys and then not have the picks to replace them.

Three 1sts aren't that much when they're all likely to be between 20-32. i mean, you guys have been picking in that range for what 3-4 years now? how good have most of those guys been? And the reality is that more than 60% of 1st rd draft picks don't re-sign with the team that drafted them, so basically we can say that only 1 out of 3 1st rd players are even starters after a season. So, you trade three picks, two of which you probably weren't going to re-sign anyway, and the one you did re-sign has less than a 3% chance of being elite? sign me up.


Given that, yeah, i'd trade three 1sts and any DL not named Vea for a 26 yr-old future 1st-ballot HoF EDGE in a heartbeat. I guarantee you a team like NE or NYJ would've ponied up a lot more than just a pair of 1st rd picks. Of course, those teams are in a completely different situation than a team like TB. But Micah should've gone for at least 4 picks at a minimum. or whatever Mack went for, he should've drawn at least that much draft capital. And if Jerry had any common sense left he would've announced that Micah was on the block back before the draft and I would bet several house payments some team would've given up a lot more than a measly pair of 1sts.

heck, if Jerry told Licht that Micah could be a Buc for three 1sts and Braswell and Licht refused, he should've gotten fired on the spot, imo.

[Bootz]

Agreed-ish.

I think the deal would have made more sense for us to do than the Packers. I don't think they're a pass rusher away from contending where as that was an explicit weak spot for us last year. I still say that contract & trade is way too heavy a lift, but at least it makes sense to try and push our roster over the hump.

For Dallas, it makes no sense in a vacuum because it signals rebuild mode while the rest of the roster isn't.

I hope Reddick can bring it this year.

@Bootz there's my first take on the matter.

Having said that, what's your wager?

Just labeling him a pass rusher marginalizes his impact and the player that he is.

And I'm not making a wager with you just because you're desperate to deflect from multiple people calling out your illogical position here. It's not a genuine wager. You just realize the logic is nonexistent.

[Phantom]

you two... @Bootz and @Chef .

[Selmon Rules]

Fact of the matter is Parsons makes any defense he plays in better, period....

[__Chef__]

Just labeling him a pass rusher marginalizes his impact and the player that he is.

Okay, so a top 10 defense just got a "top 10 defender" to go along with their "elite" offense.

I say: They aren't making the SB this year, nor the next, nor the next.

No SB ... now through 2027.

What's your wager?

[Bootz]

Just labeling him a pass rusher marginalizes his impact and the player that he is.

Okay, so a top 10 defense just got a "top 10 defender" to go along with their "elite" offense.

I say: They aren't making the SB this year, nor the next, nor the next.

No SB ... now through 2027.

What's your wager?

And I'm not making a wager with you just because you're desperate to deflect from multiple people calling out your illogical position here. It's not a genuine wager. You just realize the logic is nonexistent.

[__Chef__]

Weak-sauce.

If he's the impact player you proclaim him to be, this shouldn't be difficult to stand on.

[Bootz]

I don’t need to make a wager based off desperation on your part. You weren’t talking wager until you got called out. Just admit your logic failed miserably here and move on.

[__Chef__]

I don’t need to make a wager based off desperation on your part. You weren’t talking wager until you got called out. Just admit your logic failed miserably here and move on.

My take:
He's not the "needle mover" you've portrayed him to be, worthy of (2) 1sts, a player, and $50/yr on the Packer's squad.

Whatever metric you want to use, I'm game. How will he meaningfully impact the Packers team?

What's your wager?

[Bootz]

I don’t need to make a wager based off desperation on your part. You weren’t talking wager until you got called out. Just admit your logic failed miserably here and move on.

My take:
He's not the "needle mover" you've portrayed him to be, worthy of (2) 1sts, a player, and $50/yr on the Packer's squad.

Whatever metric you want to use, I'm game. How will he meaningfully impact the Packers team?

What's your wager?

Melting down so badly you keep asking the same question over and over when I've made it clear I'M NOT MAKING A WAGER.

[__Chef__]

My take:
He's not the "needle mover" you've portrayed him to be, worthy of (2) 1sts, a player, and $50/yr on the Packer's squad.

Whatever metric you want to use, I'm game. How will he meaningfully impact the Packers team?

What's your wager?

Melting down so badly you keep asking the same question over and over when I've made it clear I'M NOT MAKING A WAGER.

That's pretty pathetic Bootz.

You're standing on nothing.

I've opened any avenue you want to roll, and you tuck tail? We're not talking about putting your house up, a rack up, your car, not even your sig.

Just your word.

The road is once again fully up for whatever variable you want to use to say you're right, and I'm wrong.
That Micah Parsons was in fact worthy of this trade, and the Packers are clearly better off for it by x metric.

I've gone head to head, a 3 year window of not making the SB, to completely open.

Stand on your word.

In what measure will the Packers be markedly better off now with Micah Parsons?

[Central_Buc]

Rudy II

Drafted by Tampa Bay. An NFL story?

[Grahamburn]

3 firsts is pretty extreme. If you could do two and YaYa or Braswell it makes more sense, but seemed like Dallas wanted the interior player, and taking Vita out of this defense is like removing our heart.

There’s also the contract caveat and there are a lot of homegrown Bucs needing new deals after this season.

You’re going to lose those guys and then not have the picks to replace them.

Three 1sts aren't that much when they're all likely to be between 20-32. i mean, you guys have been picking in that range for what 3-4 years now? how good have most of those guys been? And the reality is that more than 60% of 1st rd draft picks don't re-sign with the team that drafted them, so basically we can say that only 1 out of 3 1st rd players are even starters after a season. So, you trade three picks, two of which you probably weren't going to re-sign anyway, and the one you did re-sign has less than a 3% chance of being elite? sign me up.


Given that, yeah, i'd trade three 1sts and any DL not named Vea for a 26 yr-old future 1st-ballot HoF EDGE in a heartbeat. I guarantee you a team like NE or NYJ would've ponied up a lot more than just a pair of 1st rd picks. Of course, those teams are in a completely different situation than a team like TB. But Micah should've gone for at least 4 picks at a minimum. or whatever Mack went for, he should've drawn at least that much draft capital. And if Jerry had any common sense left he would've announced that Micah was on the block back before the draft and I would bet several house payments some team would've given up a lot more than a measly pair of 1sts.

heck, if Jerry told Licht that Micah could be a Buc for three 1sts and Braswell and Licht refused, he should've gotten fired on the spot, imo.

3 firsts for a defensive position player is unprecedented. 3 firsts AND a player is lunacy.

And there's no guarantee they're late picks. Cleveland thought the picks they were giving up for Watson would be late too.

[Bootz]

Three 1sts aren't that much when they're all likely to be between 20-32. i mean, you guys have been picking in that range for what 3-4 years now? how good have most of those guys been? And the reality is that more than 60% of 1st rd draft picks don't re-sign with the team that drafted them, so basically we can say that only 1 out of 3 1st rd players are even starters after a season. So, you trade three picks, two of which you probably weren't going to re-sign anyway, and the one you did re-sign has less than a 3% chance of being elite? sign me up.


Given that, yeah, i'd trade three 1sts and any DL not named Vea for a 26 yr-old future 1st-ballot HoF EDGE in a heartbeat. I guarantee you a team like NE or NYJ would've ponied up a lot more than just a pair of 1st rd picks. Of course, those teams are in a completely different situation than a team like TB. But Micah should've gone for at least 4 picks at a minimum. or whatever Mack went for, he should've drawn at least that much draft capital. And if Jerry had any common sense left he would've announced that Micah was on the block back before the draft and I would bet several house payments some team would've given up a lot more than a measly pair of 1sts.

heck, if Jerry told Licht that Micah could be a Buc for three 1sts and Braswell and Licht refused, he should've gotten fired on the spot, imo.

3 firsts for a defensive position player is unprecedented. 3 firsts AND a player is lunacy.

And there's no guarantee they're late picks. Cleveland thought the picks they were giving up for Watson would be late too.

You've repeated this piece of fiction numerous times and I bet you thought you were doing something. I'm embarrassed for you, so I'm going to clear up the lies.

The trade for Deshaun Watson occured in March 2022. After the 2021 season, where Cleveland went 8-9 and before the 2022 NFL draft. They sent Houston their 2022, 2023, & 2024 1st round picks.

Now draft order is set well before the draft comes around. So Cleveland already KNEW they were giving up the 13th overall pick in that draft. Explain to us what logical reason they had for thinking that pick would be late.

Next, let's get to the 2022 season. Deshaun Watson was suspended the 1st 11 games. So realistically, there'd be no reason to expect they'd have much success. They actually didn't do terribly. 7-10 isnt good. But they ended up with the 12th pick.

Now let's get to the 2023 season. They actually did have a good year. Even made the playoffs. And as a result HAD A LATE 1ST ROUND PICK.

So when you say "Cleveland thought they were picking late" you're either lying or just ignorant to the facts. Cleveland only could have reasonable expectations for a late picks on 2 of them, and 1 of them was late.

[Grahamburn]

Great points. Appreciate the effort.

The point remains though that the picks GB gave up could easily be high ones if the Packers have some bad luck. People are acting likes it’s guaranteed they’ll be in the 30’s.

[Central_Buc]

Im sensing that Bootz is very upset that Parsons isn't a Buc.

This is the first step toward how to relax and really take a rest. It starts with a smile


[Yt][/yt]

[__Chef__]

3 firsts for a defensive position player is unprecedented. 3 firsts AND a player is lunacy.

And there's no guarantee they're late picks. Cleveland thought the picks they were giving up for Watson would be late too.

You've repeated this piece of fiction numerous times and I bet you thought you were doing something. I'm embarrassed for you, so I'm going to clear up the lies.

The trade for Deshaun Watson occured in March 2022. After the 2021 season, where Cleveland went 8-9 and before the 2022 NFL draft. They sent Houston their 2022, 2023, & 2024 1st round picks.

Now draft order is set well before the draft comes around. So Cleveland already KNEW they were giving up the 13th overall pick in that draft. Explain to us what logical reason they had for thinking that pick would be late.

Next, let's get to the 2022 season. Deshaun Watson was suspended the 1st 11 games. So realistically, there'd be no reason to expect they'd have much success. They actually didn't do terribly. 7-10 isnt good. But they ended up with the 12th pick.

Now let's get to the 2023 season. They actually did have a good year. Even made the playoffs. And as a result HAD A LATE 1ST ROUND PICK.

So when you say "Cleveland thought they were picking late" you're either lying or just ignorant to the facts. Cleveland only could have reasonable expectations for a late picks on 2 of them, and 1 of them was late.

Thank you for the reminder of what a horribly dumb idea this trade was.

Now back to the other one, what about the Packers will be tangibly better with Micah Parsons?

[Phantom]

Holy shit! Just saw on ESPN that the Bengals are 1-11 in week 1 and 2 under Zac Taylor since 2019.


1-11!! Good lord

[Obsolete]

You've repeated this piece of fiction numerous times and I bet you thought you were doing something. I'm embarrassed for you, so I'm going to clear up the lies.

The trade for Deshaun Watson occured in March 2022. After the 2021 season, where Cleveland went 8-9 and before the 2022 NFL draft. They sent Houston their 2022, 2023, & 2024 1st round picks.

Now draft order is set well before the draft comes around. So Cleveland already KNEW they were giving up the 13th overall pick in that draft. Explain to us what logical reason they had for thinking that pick would be late.

Next, let's get to the 2022 season. Deshaun Watson was suspended the 1st 11 games. So realistically, there'd be no reason to expect they'd have much success. They actually didn't do terribly. 7-10 isnt good. But they ended up with the 12th pick.

Now let's get to the 2023 season. They actually did have a good year. Even made the playoffs. And as a result HAD A LATE 1ST ROUND PICK.

So when you say "Cleveland thought they were picking late" you're either lying or just ignorant to the facts. Cleveland only could have reasonable expectations for a late picks on 2 of them, and 1 of them was late.

Thank you for the reminder of what a horribly dumb idea this trade was.

Now back to the other one, what about the Packers will be tangibly better with Micah Parsons?

When Tampa brought in Simeon Rice, did you think he made much of a difference? Our defense was already top 10.

[Bootz]

You've repeated this piece of fiction numerous times and I bet you thought you were doing something. I'm embarrassed for you, so I'm going to clear up the lies.

The trade for Deshaun Watson occured in March 2022. After the 2021 season, where Cleveland went 8-9 and before the 2022 NFL draft. They sent Houston their 2022, 2023, & 2024 1st round picks.

Now draft order is set well before the draft comes around. So Cleveland already KNEW they were giving up the 13th overall pick in that draft. Explain to us what logical reason they had for thinking that pick would be late.

Next, let's get to the 2022 season. Deshaun Watson was suspended the 1st 11 games. So realistically, there'd be no reason to expect they'd have much success. They actually didn't do terribly. 7-10 isnt good. But they ended up with the 12th pick.

Now let's get to the 2023 season. They actually did have a good year. Even made the playoffs. And as a result HAD A LATE 1ST ROUND PICK.

So when you say "Cleveland thought they were picking late" you're either lying or just ignorant to the facts. Cleveland only could have reasonable expectations for a late picks on 2 of them, and 1 of them was late.

Thank you for the reminder of what a horribly dumb idea this trade was.

Now back to the other one, what about the Packers will be tangibly better with Micah Parsons?

Everything. OCs will have to account for him at all times. Double teams will be rolled to him, allowing their other talented defenders more 1 on 1 opportunities to make plays.

[Bootz]

Great points. Appreciate the effort.

The point remains though that the picks GB gave up could easily be high ones if the Packers have some bad luck. People are acting likes it’s guaranteed they’ll be in the 30’s.

Now you're twisting the narrative. @Sooner06 clearly said 20-32, which would mean they are at minimum a playoff team. In LaFleur's 6 years there they've made the playoffs in 5 of those years and they have a better roster than they did last year. They have a reasonable expectation of make the playoffs, I'd imagine. No one is guaranteeing they'll make the SB.

[Backside]

what about the Packers will be tangibly better with Micah Parsons?

Are you actually asking this question?