Phantom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:50 pm
Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
Phantom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:50 pm
Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
If we start rpokie quarterback there is a 50% chance he will not be successful.
Phantom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:50 pm
Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
acmillis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:43 pm
Two firsts for a TE...yeah, IDK about that. I know he's seen as generational, but he's still a TE and we have no clue how Coen intends to use TE(s) in this offense.
Think about it. How many TEs would you be willing to give up two first round picks for (going as far back as you want). You can probably count them on one, maybe two hands, and that's knowing how their respective careers turned out.
I mean...there are only 11 HOF TEs (Gronk assuredly going in, IMO), so call it a dozen.
It's a "roll of the dice" I wouldn't want to take. Just my .02.
On an offense with a bad OL, no depth at WR, 1 that's 31, the other in a contract year, a subpar RB room, the last thing we need to be doing is trading up for a TE.
I don't care what the plan is for the OC. You just don't do it.
Bowers lined up out wide or in the slot 1,033 snaps compared to 876 snaps at in-line TE. One could say he could be our WR depth
On an offense with a bad OL, no depth at WR, 1 that's 31, the other in a contract year, a subpar RB room, the last thing we need to be doing is trading up for a TE.
I don't care what the plan is for the OC. You just don't do it.
Bowers lined up out wide or in the slot 1,033 snaps compared to 876 snaps at in-line TE. One could say he could be our WR depth
That doesn't help the argument at all. In fact it validates why you should trade up for a TE who doesn't even play his traditional position
Bowers lined up out wide or in the slot 1,033 snaps compared to 876 snaps at in-line TE. One could say he could be our WR depth
That doesn't help the argument at all. In fact it validates why you should trade up for a TE who doesn't even play his traditional position
I never suggested we traded up, but as I said in my mock draft that I did, he fell to us and it wouldn't make sense not to take him. In that case, it would make sense. Trading up, I agree with you
You have to look at Bowers as a thick wide receiver. he’s like 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than gronk. Gronk is one of the ten best athletes in NFL history. So that may not be a fair comparison, but it provides you with some perspective.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:30 pm
You have to look at Bowers as a thick wide receiver. he’s like 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than gronk. Gronk is one of the ten best athletes in NFL history. So that may not be a fair comparison, but it provides you with some perspective.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:30 pm
You have to look at Bowers as a thick wide receiver. he’s like 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than gronk. Gronk is one of the ten best athletes in NFL history. So that may not be a fair comparison, but it provides you with some perspective.
Even though it will be really fucking boring, we should spend 2 to 3 early picks on Oline. Baker will cook if we build him a bullet proof line and we have a shot at doing so this year given all the talent available. We have no LG at all, Hainsey needs to be replaced, and Mauch is a complete wildcard. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to push both Hainsey and Mauch down the depth chart as we'll at least have good depth.
BucsNBills wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 12:13 am
Even though it will be really fucking boring, we should spend 2 to 3 early picks on Oline. Baker will cook if we build him a bullet proof line and we have a shot at doing so this year given all the talent available. We have no LG at all, Hainsey needs to be replaced, and Mauch is a complete wildcard. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to push both Hainsey and Mauch down the depth chart as we'll at least have good depth.
If they are who you think they are - they will be gone by pick 26, 57.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:30 pm
You have to look at Bowers as a thick wide receiver. he’s like 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than gronk. Gronk is one of the ten best athletes in NFL history. So that may not be a fair comparison, but it provides you with some perspective.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:30 pm
You have to look at Bowers as a thick wide receiver. he’s like 3 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than gronk. Gronk is one of the ten best athletes in NFL history. So that may not be a fair comparison, but it provides you with some perspective.
So somewhere between a Gronk and a Deebo Samuel?
Comps are always hard.
He’s really good with the ball in his hands. You don’t have to be a great blocker to be really effective as a tight end in this league. But I reserve that dominant title for guys who can at least excel in both facets.
We will see how it plays out. Kelce is really good while being at best average in the blocking phase. But really, is he a tight end or is he a wide receiver? I think that’s debatable.
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
If we start rpokie quarterback there is a 50% chance he will not be successful.
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
I don't think the issue is with your opinion.
What, it's the constant voicing of my opinion? I assure you, the only times I've ever given it, was when someone else brought it up first. Maybe your issue should be with those people.
Phantom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:50 pm
Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
No one is saying not to draft QB though. Just because we like Baker doesn't mean we don't think Baker may be a stop gap. But Baker is still young enough to continue to hold the fort and have stability at the position until the next guy.
He's not below average. Only to you cause you don't like em.
Crazy talk. GMs have staff that are responsible for player evaluation. There are people who focus on college players, and others who focus on current NFL players. They give information to the GM and coaches who then make decisions. Not sure blaming Licht is correct in this case.
Now, do I agree the Buccaneers (GM+Scouts+Coaches) fucked up the QB position. Yes, yes I do. The Buccaneers have historically sucked at QB evaluation/development.
Doug Williams
Steve Young
Trent Dilfer
Vinny T
etc...
We can't seem to draft and develop a guy regardless of how the coach and GM are.
We win when we get a veteran
Brady
Brad Johnson
We will see if Mayfield can join them.
It's not crazy talk at all. The GM pulls the trigger, that's his job, it's his accountability. He has control of who his scouts are. If the ones giving him advice on the QB's is routinely wrong, it's his job to make changes, otherwise it will be ownership that changes his situation.
Thank you captain obvious.
I was taking issue with the "we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's" part of the post. I agree that Licht needs to get better QB evaluations done. Then again, he has ONLY drafted one QB.
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
If we start rpokie quarterback there is a 50% chance he will not be successful.
I think CannonFire is concerned that Mayfield has a higher than 50% chance to have a bad year (historically, speaking that is what his stats say) and a 0% chance of being the next Rich Gannon.
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
No one is saying not to draft QB though. Just because we like Baker doesn't mean we don't think Baker may be a stop gap. But Baker is still young enough to continue to hold the fort and have stability at the position until the next guy.
He's not below average. Only to you cause you don't like em.
I think he is better than Jameis Winston, but he still has a lot of room for improvement. The two interceptions in the Lions game, to me, had a huge impact on that game. If his play was better the Buccaneers likely win that game.
It's not crazy talk at all. The GM pulls the trigger, that's his job, it's his accountability. He has control of who his scouts are. If the ones giving him advice on the QB's is routinely wrong, it's his job to make changes, otherwise it will be ownership that changes his situation.
Thank you captain obvious.
I was taking issue with the "we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's" part of the post. I agree that Licht needs to get better QB evaluations done. Then again, he has ONLY drafted one QB.
He drafted 2 QB's (Trask), but he also evaluated other QB's... his evaluating Mayfield in 2018 is what started this. If he evaluated Mayfield, it was for a reason... yes? I'm thinking he also evaluated the other QB's in that draft. We were picking 7th after all. In this evaluation processed, he concluded that Winston was the best choice. Oof. Of course, when I say "He", I'm talking about the conglomerate that is involved in the evaluation process. I don't who the other people are, so I'm just referring to him specifically.
In 2018, he went into the draft knowing about the Uber driver incident and a potential suspension looming. He and his cohorts, evaluated the 2018 and felt that neither Allen or Jackson were worth taking and replacing Winston and then on top of that, picked up Winston's 5th year option. That's not just a "he only drafted 1 QB" dynamic. I mean, I give him props for not taking Mariota, but based on what was being reported in 2015, I don't think they ever considered him. It sounded like they had their mind made up that it was Winston, once they officially had the #1 pick.
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him. Everything about him says "below average". Yes, I understand he's a $10M cap hit, but we're paying him at least $50 between this year and next, to be one of the 12 worst QBs in the league. If he was signed to a 3 year / $30M deal, you wouldn't have heard a peep from me, because we would've had an extra $30M to spend on FA's who can help the team.
I find interesting that people want the Bucs to improve the team with rookies, but I bring that up saying a rookie should be a qb instead of a below average qb, and I'm "the hater".
No one is saying not to draft QB though. Just because we like Baker doesn't mean we don't think Baker may be a stop gap. But Baker is still young enough to continue to hold the fort and have stability at the position until the next guy.
He's not below average. Only to you cause you don't like em.
This isn't true at all. Multiple people here have been saying it would be a waste of a pick in the 1st or 2nd round to take a QB. There've been others who've said that we shouldn't even be drafting a QB until like rounds 5 or later... or even not at all. At that point, you're just throwing crap at the wall and seeing if anything sticks. That's not looking for a future QB, that's looking for a lottery ticket.
You're not reading my posts. You're apparently stopping at a point and then replying or just assuming my point. I never said I didn't like him. I've always said we shouldn't invest money in him. To me, $50M guaranteed over 2 years is investing in him. I'd have had ZERO problem with a 3 yr/$45M deal with no guaranteed money after Y1 salary. With the deal we gave him, it's all but guaranteed that we will NOT be drafting a QB before RD3. We have no 5th this year which means that we either take a "stab" in the 4th, if anyone is even there, or a dart throw with the last pick in the 6th round or the late 7th. So I'll ask you, since I don't really follow college football, do you think we'll actually get a QB that has a legit shot to be a starter in the 4th round, 6th, or 7th? If your answer is no, then I think your point on "no is saying not to draft a QB", moot. If your answer is yes, I'd like to know so I can read up on them.
If we start rpokie quarterback there is a 50% chance he will not be successful.
I think CannonFire is concerned that Mayfield has a higher than 50% chance to have a bad year (historically, speaking that is what his stats say) and a 0% chance of being the next Rich Gannon.
That's around where I'm at. I mean, he doesn't have to have a "bad year". I think if he has the stat line next year (which would be 4 years of similar numbers... out of 6), we have a losing record because our schedule looks to be harder. I think our ceiling at that point is 7 wins. In reference to Gannon, that's exactly what I'm saying.
I was taking issue with the "we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's" part of the post. I agree that Licht needs to get better QB evaluations done. Then again, he has ONLY drafted one QB.
He drafted 2 QB's (Trask), but he also evaluated other QB's...
I forgot he was here for Jameis. Winston was a bigger mistake than Trask IMHO.
CannonFire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:09 pm
his evaluating Mayfield in 2018 is what started this. If he evaluated Mayfield, it was for a reason... yes? I'm thinking he also evaluated the other QB's in that draft. We were picking 7th after all. In this evaluation processed, he concluded that Winston was the best choice. Oof. Of course, when I say "He", I'm talking about the conglomerate that is involved in the evaluation process. I don't who the other people are, so I'm just referring to him specifically.
In 2018, he went into the draft knowing about the Uber driver incident and a potential suspension looming. He and his cohorts, evaluated the 2018 and felt that neither Allen or Jackson were worth taking and replacing Winston and then on top of that, picked up Winston's 5th year option. That's not just a "he only drafted 1 QB" dynamic. I mean, I give him props for not taking Mariota, but based on what was being reported in 2015, I don't think they ever considered him. It sounded like they had their mind made up that it was Winston, once they officially had the #1 pick.
Yeah, the QB room has, outside of Brady, now looked good for Licht.
He drafted 2 QB's (Trask), but he also evaluated other QB's...
I forgot he was here for Jameis. Winston was a bigger mistake than Trask IMHO.
CannonFire wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:09 pm
his evaluating Mayfield in 2018 is what started this. If he evaluated Mayfield, it was for a reason... yes? I'm thinking he also evaluated the other QB's in that draft. We were picking 7th after all. In this evaluation processed, he concluded that Winston was the best choice. Oof. Of course, when I say "He", I'm talking about the conglomerate that is involved in the evaluation process. I don't who the other people are, so I'm just referring to him specifically.
In 2018, he went into the draft knowing about the Uber driver incident and a potential suspension looming. He and his cohorts, evaluated the 2018 and felt that neither Allen or Jackson were worth taking and replacing Winston and then on top of that, picked up Winston's 5th year option. That's not just a "he only drafted 1 QB" dynamic. I mean, I give him props for not taking Mariota, but based on what was being reported in 2015, I don't think they ever considered him. It sounded like they had their mind made up that it was Winston, once they officially had the #1 pick.
Yeah, the QB room has, outside of Brady, now looked good for Licht.
Winston is a bigger mistake than Trask, as far as the investment, I agree with that. I never actually had any positive vibes from Trask, but to me, taking him instead of someone who could actually help in a repeat run is a bigger issue with that pick, than being wrong about him.
No one is saying not to draft QB though. Just because we like Baker doesn't mean we don't think Baker may be a stop gap. But Baker is still young enough to continue to hold the fort and have stability at the position until the next guy.
He's not below average. Only to you cause you don't like em.
I think he is better than Jameis Winston, but he still has a lot of room for improvement. The two interceptions in the Lions game, to me, had a huge impact on that game. If his play was better the Buccaneers likely win that game.
To be fair the first one went right through Mike Evans’ hands.
The 3 straight TD drives the defense gave up in the second half lost that game. Mayfield answered 2 of them.
Yes, you hope for more than a quick INT in that last drive, and that’s usually what sticks for fans. We’re probably a bit jaded by Brady in those situations.
Mayfield did show a knack for coming through during the regular season though in those moments.
Last edited by Grahamburn on Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ahhhh okay. Cannon Fires entire argument isn't one of actual nuance or substance.
Its a classic case of hindsighting the two QBs who weren't busts in the last few years that he wish we had and being upset we didn't get them. That's it. That's literally all it is.
Oh and totally skipping the fact that doing so would've cost us Vea and CD3, and likely our Super Bowl.
But hey, we'd have a bona-fide savior! One that has lower post season winning percentage, yards and TDs per game than Baker, but bona-fide!
