13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:06 pm
I have looked at this over and over and I have to say it looks like he intentionally went after the knee. I understand the hit is legal by the rules but I think Collingsworth has a point.
To me he lines up on the knee right there.
He is engaged with the leg with his forearm making contact to the side of the knee area.
Video Link:
Hard to watch that.
It was a clean hit.
The defender went low, and that's how they are taught to do it these days. And really, can ya blame them?
It was a routine hit in a routine way. Our safeties hit opposing receivers like this every week, as does every teams' defenders. This was just unfortunate timing and physics.
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As far as Godwin is concerned moving forward, it'll be interesting to see if he wants to come back. I love the guy, but if the Jaguars or whomever back up the moneytruck, I doubt that we can match that. Hope he gets healthy soon.
mdb1958 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:56 pm
Can I see a clip of us doing that?
I'm not going to go cliphunting for ya, but that's a standard tackle attacking the offensive player's thigh pad. AWJ and Whitehead do the same thing multiple times a week.
The bad luck is that the defender was tackling a planted leg in hyperextension. Had Godwin not been extended with that leg, he could have more naturally absorbed the impact, likely rolling over the defender, bruised but not out for the year. But I'm no doctor, so take my prognostications of injury risk with a grain of salt.
What I am though is an experienced football fellow, and I can categorically say that the hit was not dirty in any way or shape or form.
Nobody wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:00 pm
Yeah. We were unbelievably blessed with relative NFL health last year.
This year it’s regressed to the mean (but it’s still nothing like the 49ers got last year).
In this league (outside of a few narrow circumstances), you get what you deserve.
I’ve said it before, but this is a 5-7 win team without nonstop Elite QBing. If they can’t figure things out offensively and strap their hard hats on? Well, they get what they deserve.
We’ve got no one to blame but ourselves for a RB room that consists of Jones and Vaughn. We drafted those guys with a high 2nd and mid 3rd round picks and spent a 5th on another RB that we cut.
We’ve got no one to blame but ourselves that we’re not only not running the ball, but we’re not even putting ourselves in position to play-action. Which also puts our OL in bad position constantly pass blocking. We’ve got no one to blame but ourselves when the bulk of our passing game concepts don’t design people getting open but are rather vanilla, predictable, iso routes that pray WR’s achieve separation without schemed help (stack/bunch, exchanged releases, rubs)…particularly in crucial situations where we’re running double Hitches/Digs that are covered and a 9 route (which we throw because nothing else is open and that 9 is the only throw that has any chance plus I’d out of danger).
We draft a talented Edge rusher and then keep him off the field. We drafted 2-4 rounds that give us no real help in this short window we have.
We don’t draft good special teamers or coach good special teams.
If it’s a short playoff exit and a 2022 tear down with a Brady ejection, we’ll have earned it.
Scary to think about how bad we become once that teardown happens. With Brady leaving, that likely means Gronk, AB, Fournette, and Arians all leave as well. If it happens this offseason, I imagine Godwin, Carlton Davis, and Whitehead probably look elsewhere to get paid as well. We go from a "superteam" to one of the worst rosters in the nfl lol.
Whatever year it happens(2022 or 2023), I'd put money down on us to being fully in the hunt(and perhaps the favorite) for the 1st overall pick that year.
We go from a superteam to a superzero lol
If that happens we need to trade Evans to a contender, he doesn't deserve to go through about Bucs rebuild.
mdb1958 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:56 pm
Can I see a clip of us doing that?
I'm not going to go cliphunting for ya, but that's a standard tackle attacking the offensive player's thigh pad. AWJ and Whitehead do the same thing multiple times a week.
The bad luck is that the defender was tackling a planted leg in hyperextension. Had Godwin not been extended with that leg, he could have more naturally absorbed the impact, likely rolling over the defender, bruised but not out for the year. But I'm no doctor, so take my prognostications of injury risk with a grain of salt.
What I am though is an experienced football fellow, and I can categorically say that the hit was not dirty in any way or shape or form.
Read PJ Williams face, it will tell you all you don't wanna know.
Makes me vomit. @Babeinbucland @13F11B @Tnbandwagoner and @ATrain are the conspiracy clowns. The NFL is 1 huge "big brother" operation to screw the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and fix games against them despite all of the winning. I swear they need to start a podcast.
Hey, asswipe. I said I had an uneasy feeling. Not that I thought that was actually the case. My lord, you are a dipshit.
Yep- he is one of the biggest dips of shit on the board. His narcissism is beyond belief.
He played in an entirely different NFL. He didn't go low because when he and his peers aimed high, they didn't have to look around for a flag or wait until Tuesday to see how much their fine would be. His peers and those before also filed lawsuit against the NFL because they were uninformed and weren't protected against hits to the head and the impacts of head injuries.
So his beef needs to be with the NFL or the players who sued the league because of the hits to the head. Not a player playing within the scope of the rules in today's NFL.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:18 pm
Rodney Harrison is being disingenuous here.
He played in an entirely different NFL. He didn't go low because when he and his peers aimed high, they didn't have to look around for a flag or wait until Tuesday to see how much their fine would be. His peers and those before also filed lawsuit against the NFL because they were uninformed and weren't protected against hits to the head and the impacts of head injuries.
So his beef needs to be with the NFL or the players who sued the league because of the hits to the head. Not a player playing within the scope of the rules in today's NFL.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:18 pm
Rodney Harrison is being disingenuous here.
He played in an entirely different NFL. He didn't go low because when he and his peers aimed high, they didn't have to look around for a flag or wait until Tuesday to see how much their fine would be. His peers and those before also filed lawsuit against the NFL because they were uninformed and weren't protected against hits to the head and the impacts of head injuries.
So his beef needs to be with the NFL or the players who sued the league because of the hits to the head. Not a player playing within the scope of the rules in today's NFL.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
So you think AWJ is dirty? He almost exclusively cuts for legs, like most DBs in the NFL.
You sound like the Saints fans that call White dirty and say he intentionally injured Winston. Emotional and irrational because Godwin is out.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
So you think AWJ is dirty? He almost exclusively cuts for legs, like most DBs in the NFL.
You sound like the Saints fans that call White dirty and say he intentionally injured Winston. Emotional and irrational because Godwin is out.
I do not think all going low tackles are dirty. I do not think that all horse-collar tackles are dirty. However, after watching the hit on Godwin over and over I think he went for the knee vs just trying to do low.
So you think AWJ is dirty? He almost exclusively cuts for legs, like most DBs in the NFL.
You sound like the Saints fans that call White dirty and say he intentionally injured Winston. Emotional and irrational because Godwin is out.
I do not think all going low tackles are dirty. I do not think that all horse-collar tackles are dirty. However, after watching the hit on Godwin over and over I think he went for the knee vs just trying to do low.
Again, that's emotional. It was a split second play that happens many times per game. The results were just unfortunate. There's no contet from the game that should lead you to assign malicious intent.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:18 pm
Rodney Harrison is being disingenuous here.
He played in an entirely different NFL. He didn't go low because when he and his peers aimed high, they didn't have to look around for a flag or wait until Tuesday to see how much their fine would be. His peers and those before also filed lawsuit against the NFL because they were uninformed and weren't protected against hits to the head and the impacts of head injuries.
So his beef needs to be with the NFL or the players who sued the league because of the hits to the head. Not a player playing within the scope of the rules in today's NFL.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
You clearly have never played the game nor do you know anything about it.
Tackling 101: You don't go high.
Ideally you're going for the waistline or thighs. Imagine expecting 190 pound DBs to tackle a 215 pound WR or better yet a 230 pound RB going for his chest. Wann know what happens?
I get it. You're emotional. It happened on national TV. Godwin is beloved by everyone and extremely important to what we do on offense. I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find your comments criticizing Devin White for his blatant horse collar on Jameis Winston, which actually was against the rules and resulted in a penalty, since you're all about players playing within the rules.
Again, that's emotional. It was a split second play that happens many times per game. The results were just unfortunate. There's no contet from the game that should lead you to assign malicious intent.
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No, that is not emotional. Certainly, I do not know what was in the player's head but I am able to take a look at a play and say if it looked like it was just a low hit or one that was aiming for the knee. I felt it looked like he was aiming for the knee. You can disagree but that does not make my observation based on emotion.
Godwin will sign for sure but will he even want to stay with the Bucs? I just don't see Brady staying another year so it will be right back to what Godwin was likely tired of dealing with which is the losing Bucs culture.
Can Licht negotiate a contract now with him or does the franchise tag prohibit that? If we can, now would be the time to hand him a big contract when he's at his lowest.
No guarantee he's back with the Bucs, Brady or not.
Licht cannot negotiate a contract with him until next year. And even if he could, your reasoning there is exactly why his agent wouldn't even pick up the phone and it's why players need to get as much as they can.
There's no true loyalty in football. Godwin better get as much as he wants as quickly as he can.
I just want to say, you said that about Shaq Barrett, too. What did he do? Tell his agent he wanted to stay in Tampa and nowhere else. Not everyone takes the highest offer. Is he more than likely going to take the most money? Of course, but always assuming is not always correct even if it is most of the time.
So you think AWJ is dirty? He almost exclusively cuts for legs, like most DBs in the NFL.
You sound like the Saints fans that call White dirty and say he intentionally injured Winston. Emotional and irrational because Godwin is out.
I do not think all going low tackles are dirty. I do not think that all horse-collar tackles are dirty. However, after watching the hit on Godwin over and over I think he went for the knee vs just trying to do low.
This is an opinionated position. An irrational one at that which would require the operation of PJ Williams mind. You're emotional and this proves it. What you broke down in slow motion "over and over" you expected Williams or Godwin for that matter to see in less than a second. That's pure emotion, kiddo.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
You clearly have never played the game nor do you know anything about it.
Tackling 101: You don't go high.
Ideally you're going for the waistline or thighs. Imagine expecting 190 pound DBs to tackle a 215 pound WR or better yet a 230 pound RB going for his chest. Wann know what happens?
I get it. You're emotional. It happened on national TV. Godwin is beloved by everyone and extremely important to what we do on offense. I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find your comments criticizing Devin White for his blatant horse collar on Jameis Winston, which actually was against the rules and resulted in a penalty, since you're all about players playing within the rules.
You are clearly an idiot.
My coach taught us to keep our heads up and go for the waist. I played on defense.
Second, you are a moron. I have clearly said the hit was legal. I have not said it was a dirty hit. I said it looked like he went for the knee. You have not disputed that. All you keep saying is that it was legal. My comments regarding Devin White were related to my not knowing that the corner of the shoulder pad and name plate counted as a horse-collar tackle. I thought you had to get your hand in the shoulder pads or grasp the actual collar. For reference though I do not think that Devin White aimed for the horse-collar tackle.
I do not have to be emotional to disagree with you.
No guarantee he's back with the Bucs, Brady or not.
Licht cannot negotiate a contract with him until next year. And even if he could, your reasoning there is exactly why his agent wouldn't even pick up the phone and it's why players need to get as much as they can.
There's no true loyalty in football. Godwin better get as much as he wants as quickly as he can.
I just want to say, you said that about Shaq Barrett, too. What did he do? Tell his agent he wanted to stay in Tampa and nowhere else. Not everyone takes the highest offer. Is he more than likely going to take the most money? Of course, but always assuming is not always correct even if it is most of the time.
I said what exactly? That there's no guarantee Shaq would be back?
Let's keep this simple. Yes or no. Are you guaranteeing that we will re-sign Chris Godwin?
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:18 pm
Rodney Harrison is being disingenuous here.
He played in an entirely different NFL. He didn't go low because when he and his peers aimed high, they didn't have to look around for a flag or wait until Tuesday to see how much their fine would be. His peers and those before also filed lawsuit against the NFL because they were uninformed and weren't protected against hits to the head and the impacts of head injuries.
So his beef needs to be with the NFL or the players who sued the league because of the hits to the head. Not a player playing within the scope of the rules in today's NFL.
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body. To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
I have been wondering when someone would discover this amazing fact.
You clearly have never played the game nor do you know anything about it.
Tackling 101: You don't go high.
Ideally you're going for the waistline or thighs. Imagine expecting 190 pound DBs to tackle a 215 pound WR or better yet a 230 pound RB going for his chest. Wann know what happens?
I get it. You're emotional. It happened on national TV. Godwin is beloved by everyone and extremely important to what we do on offense. I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find your comments criticizing Devin White for his blatant horse collar on Jameis Winston, which actually was against the rules and resulted in a penalty, since you're all about players playing within the rules.
You are clearly an idiot.
My coach taught us to keep our heads up and go for the waist. I played on defense.
Second, you are a moron. I have clearly said the hit was legal. I have not said it was a dirty hit. I said it looked like he went for the knee. You have not disputed that. All you keep saying is that it was legal. My comments regarding Devin White were related to my not knowing that the corner of the shoulder pad and name plate counted as a horse-collar tackle. I thought you had to get your hand in the shoulder pads or grasp the actual collar. For reference though I do not think that Devin White aimed for the horse-collar tackle.
I do not have to be emotional to disagree with you.
Well if your coach taught you to go through the waste, why the hell would you say tackles should be made up high? That makes you the idiot for contradicting yourself.
He went for the thigh. I said that during the game and replay showed that. You're the moron for speaking on the horse-collar rules without knowing the scope of the rules. Shut your mouth and don't make shit up.
All of your responses and your positions here are clearly emotional, kiddo.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:56 pm
This is an opinionated position. An irrational one at that which would require the operation of PJ Williams mind. You're emotional and this proves it. What you broke down in slow motion "over and over" you expected Williams or Godwin for that matter to see in less than a second. That's pure emotion, kiddo.
I would suggest taking a few more English classes as you clearly do not have a solid grasp of the language. You are correct it is my opinion. Having an opinion does not mean one is emotional.
This part of your post is completely pointless "you expected Williams or Godwin for that matter to see in less than a second." That has NOTHING to do with my opinion that he was aiming for the knee.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:56 pm
This is an opinionated position. An irrational one at that which would require the operation of PJ Williams mind. You're emotional and this proves it. What you broke down in slow motion "over and over" you expected Williams or Godwin for that matter to see in less than a second. That's pure emotion, kiddo.
I would suggest taking a few more English classes as you clearly do not have a solid grasp of the language. You are correct it is my opinion. Having an opinion does not mean one is emotional.
This part of your post is completely pointless "you expected Williams or Godwin for that matter to see in less than a second." That has NOTHING to do with my opinion that he was aiming for the knee.
Tape shows that your opinion is wrong. And yes you're being emotional
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:01 pm
Well if your coach taught you to go through the waste, why the hell would you say tackles should be made up high? That makes you the idiot for contradicting yourself.
He went for the thigh. I said that during the game and replay showed that. You're the moron for speaking on the horse-collar rules without knowing the scope of the rules. Shut your mouth and don't make shit up.
All of your responses and your positions here are clearly emotional, kiddo.
You appear to be incapable of reading.
I stated that there was an entire region on the body that was below the head to the waist. A large number of people, like yourself, kept claiming that in order to avoid helmet shots that DBs must go low. That was complete bullshit and still is.
All of your responses show a lack of intelligence and an inability to understand the difference between opinion and emotion.
I do not think he went for the thigh. That is my opinion of the slow-motion and watching the clip. I am happy you have a different opinion than mine. No need for me to call you emotional. I just acknowledge that it is a different opinion. Now, give your brain a break and go argue with your cat.
13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:37 pm
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body.To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
Guess you don't remember your own words. Waist =/= upper body.
13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:37 pm
Just to be clear there is this area between a person's head and waist. It is called the upper body.To avoid head shots one does not need to go for the knees.
Guess you don't remember your own words. Waist =/= upper body.
I remember the words moron. I also remember the context in which I made that statement. My point still stands. There is an area one could try to tackle that does not involve going low. I did not say that was the easiest way to tackle a player. I have no idea why you are so emotional about my having a different opinion than you. Do you need some sort of validation? Are you a closet Saints fan who is just emotional about this? Are you just a troll?
13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:21 pm
I have this uneasy feeling that the game yesterday was another bounty game.
It’s a natural thought. However, LF’s splits were a freak thing. Godwin doesn’t get hurt if Brady doesn’t serve him up a hospital ball. Evans was tick tack.
Guess you don't remember your own words. Waist =/= upper body.
I remember the words moron. I also remember the context in which I made that statement. My point still stands. There is an area one could try to tackle that does not involve going low. I did not say that was the easiest way to tackle a player. I have no idea why you are so emotional about my having a different opinion than you. Do you need some sort of validation? Are you a closet Saints fan who is just emotional about this? Are you just a troll?
I'm neither. But I despise emotionally driven opinions that are CLEARLY wrong. Especially from fools who know nothing about which they are speaking about.
Bootz, your reading comprehension is shit on this argument.
13Fxxiigghhbbbvv has a solid point, and your obfuscation of the point being made does you a disservice.
Rocker wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:34 pm
Bootz, your reading comprehension is shit on this argument.
13Fxxiigghhbbbvv has a solid point, and your obfuscation of the point being made does you a disservice.
Take the L and move on.
Oh please. He has no point here. He's being emotional. He even refutes himself saying "he doesn't think all low hits are dirty". Just this one because of the injury.
So you can save your "voice of reason" act for someone who gives a shit about it.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:25 pm
I'm neither. But I despise emotionally driven opinions that are CLEARLY wrong. Especially from fools who know nothing about which they are speaking about.
You have made a bunch of lame ASSumptions.
1. I am not emotional. I have an opinion. (fact - apriori for me)
2. Knowing Football does not impact having an opinion that the player was aiming at the knee vs. the thigh pad.
Your continued argument on these points HAS to be because you are CLEARLY emotional. Unfortunately, I am the ONLY one who knows if I am emotional or not. You are just making ASSumptions.
Last post on this. So just fuck off for the rest of the night.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:25 pm
I'm neither. But I despise emotionally driven opinions that are CLEARLY wrong. Especially from fools who know nothing about which they are speaking about.
You have made a bunch of lame ASSumptions.
1. I am not emotional. I have an opinion. (fact - apriori for me)
2. Knowing Football does not impact having an opinion that the player was aiming at the knee vs. the thigh pad.
Your continued argument on these points HAS to be because you are CLEARLY emotional. Unfortunately, I am the ONLY one who knows if I am emotional or not. You are just making ASSumptions.
Last post on this. So just fuck off for the rest of the night.
How many times you gonna say ASSumptions? Got it the 1st time, kiddo.
Keep saying you're not emotional. Makes it no less true. You are. You actually felt there was a bounty out there last night. Give me a fucking break.
Rocker wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:34 pm
Bootz, your reading comprehension is shit on this argument.
13Fxxiigghhbbbvv has a solid point, and your obfuscation of the point being made does you a disservice.
Take the L and move on.
Oh please. He has no point here. He's being emotional. He even refutes himself saying "he doesn't think all low hits are dirty". Just this one because of the injury.
So you can save your "voice of reason" act for someone who gives a shit about it.
Once again, you suck at comprehension.
Point A - Not all low hits are dirty plays. Everyone with two brain cells that occasionally bounce off of one another understands this.
Point B - There's plenty of video evidence that make a case that the hit on Godwin was dirty.
Point C - Any combination of belief in either points A or B can be reasonably debated, but you chose to take the low road and be a contentious douchebag.
I believe Bucs can franchise tag Godwin again to the tune of about $20M. That decision needs to be made in March, but no clue where it falls into his recovery window.
Not saying the Bucs would do that but it's an option.
Oh please. He has no point here. He's being emotional. He even refutes himself saying "he doesn't think all low hits are dirty". Just this one because of the injury.
So you can save your "voice of reason" act for someone who gives a shit about it.
Once again, you suck at comprehension.
Point A - Not all low hits are dirty plays. Everyone with two brain cells that occasionally bounce off of one another understands this.
Point B - There's plenty of video evidence that make a case that the hit on Godwin was dirty.
Point C - Any combination of belief in either points A or B can be reasonably debated, but you chose to take the low road and be a contentious douchebag.
Point A isn't a point I made. Your boy 13jsodk made the point that the hit was dirty and that players shouldn't hit low. In fact I said during the game, not just me but many of us, that low hits are what the NFL wants as opposed to high hits. Point A isn't the issue since I never said that.
Point B I fiercely disagree with as do many others. Again, that's what the NFL wants. Calling a legal tackle a dirty play makes you sound dumb. It's unfortunate but it happens.
Point C, meh whatever. Maybe if 13jdis wasn't being an overly dramatic prick those points could be debated reasonably. But contending that yesterday was a bounty game because so many players got injured is 100% an emotional take.
