Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Snake]

Yes, more time in the system and building chemistry will clearly only lead to pumpkinism.

why did he regress big time from year 1 to year 2 under Stefanski? Because he had an injured non-throwing shoulder?

[CannonFire]

Weird, see I didn't know that Mayfield played against those 5 guys one-on-one. Can you send me video of those games?

If you think that we would be better off going forward with Mayfield than CJ Stroud, then you're nuts.

I didn't say that nor is C.J. Stroud available to us.

Then your prior point was what then?

[Grahamburn]

I didn't say that nor is C.J. Stroud available to us.

Then your prior point was what then?

That up until a defensive collapse Baker Mayfield played plenty well enough to beat C.J. Stroud (as well as several other QBs you listed) and that we can't have C.J. Stroud.

[NeezDuts]

4 years 120 million give him the same contract as evans since they're bros get it done dom

[Backside]

Wanting Carr over Baker is egregious.

[CannonFire]

Let me guess... you were one of those guys pounding their fists that Freeman and Winston deserved extensions, right?
LOL

I don't think I was, no. Neither of those players had a season anywhere near the one Baker is having, and for sure neither of them had their teammates believing the way Baker does right now.

Really? So 2010 was nothing like 2023? 2016 was nothing like 2023? Is that what you're saying? Freeman threw for 3450 yards 25 TD's and 6 Ints on 474 passes. Mayfield has 3598 yards 26 TD's and 8 Int's on 501 passes. The Bucs were 10-6 that year. Freeman's passer rating that year was 95.9 and his QBR was 69.5, where as Mayfield has a 96.2 passer rating and a 56.9 QBR.

In 2016, Winston's numbers were pretty close too... 4090, 28, and 18. He had a passer rating of 86.1 and a QBR of 59.5. Bucs won 9 games that year. Heck, even 2019, Winston's yards and TD's made Mayfield look like a kid. Yeah, he threw a ton of picks, but QBR number (which many hold more valid), .was 55.7, only a few ticks below Mayfield's 56.9. Winston did make the defense look worse than what they were, but they were still really bad on their own merit that year. At 7-7 with 2 weeks to go, there were still talks of possibly being 9-7 and making the playoffs.... AND still a potential at an extension for Winston.

In both cases though, they were 2nd year QB's, not 6th (like Mayfield). Mayfield won't pass Winston's passing yards and may equal his TD's over 16 games and will have no more than the same amount of wins. He's already needed 27 pass attempts to inch past Freeman in yards and TD's, and has more Int's. Both Freeman and Winston had higher QBR's. Mayfield can't win as many games as Freeman (in 16 games), and can only equal Winston.

So, don't give me this crap that neither Freeman nor Winston had "a season anywhere near the one Baker is having", because that's complete bull crap... and the players and team... and the fanbase (for the most part), were behind them as well. To say what you did, you must not have been a Bucs fan until 2020.

[CannonFire]

Then your prior point was what then?

That up until a defensive collapse Baker Mayfield played plenty well enough to beat C.J. Stroud (as well as several other QBs you listed) and that we can't have C.J. Stroud.

To say that a 6-year veteran played well enough to beat a rookie is NOT the endorsement you're thinking it is. some of the "several others", were also rookies or 1st-year starters. Again, not an endorsement. Look, we can quibble over guys like, say Carr, but there's maybe one or two on that list that fall in that category. Everyone else is either an upgrade or someone that projects to have a better future (like Bryce Young). Yeah, I'd rather have Bryce Young on his rookie contract than needing to pay Mayfield for an extension. I'd also rather have to pay Jordan Love than Mayfield... even though I don't think he's all that great, but I'd rather give him a 2 yr 40M extension than pay Mayfield, unless Baker is getting a 1-yr / $15M prove-it deal. There are 0 people in the NFL world who would take Mayfield over Lawrence or Cousins.

[Bootz]

Did I see someone post that Baker beat CJ Stroud? Are we back to manipulating reality to try and make a case?

[acmillis]

4 years 120 million give him the same contract as evans since they're bros get it done dom

Shoot me right in my neezduts if we give baker that deal

[Grahamburn]

I don't think I was, no. Neither of those players had a season anywhere near the one Baker is having, and for sure neither of them had their teammates believing the way Baker does right now.

Really? So 2010 was nothing like 2023? 2016 was nothing like 2023? Is that what you're saying? Freeman threw for 3450 yards 25 TD's and 6 Ints on 474 passes. Mayfield has 3598 yards 26 TD's and 8 Int's on 501 passes. The Bucs were 10-6 that year. Freeman's passer rating that year was 95.9 and his QBR was 69.5, where as Mayfield has a 96.2 passer rating and a 56.9 QBR.

In 2016, Winston's numbers were pretty close too... 4090, 28, and 18. He had a passer rating of 86.1 and a QBR of 59.5. Bucs won 9 games that year. Heck, even 2019, Winston's yards and TD's made Mayfield look like a kid. Yeah, he threw a ton of picks, but QBR number (which many hold more valid), .was 55.7, only a few ticks below Mayfield's 56.9. Winston did make the defense look worse than what they were, but they were still really bad on their own merit that year. At 7-7 with 2 weeks to go, there were still talks of possibly being 9-7 and making the playoffs.... AND still a potential at an extension for Winston.

In both cases though, they were 2nd year QB's, not 6th (like Mayfield). Mayfield won't pass Winston's passing yards and may equal his TD's over 16 games and will have no more than the same amount of wins. He's already needed 27 pass attempts to inch past Freeman in yards and TD's, and has more Int's. Both Freeman and Winston had higher QBR's. Mayfield can't win as many games as Freeman (in 16 games), and can only equal Winston.

So, don't give me this crap that neither Freeman nor Winston had "a season anywhere near the one Baker is having", because that's complete bull crap... and the players and team... and the fanbase (for the most part), were behind them as well. To say what you did, you must not have been a Bucs fan until 2020.

Fair enough on the statistics from those outlier years. Maybe I'm just jaded at the exceeding of expectations so far this season? Still two games to go but this Baker Mayfield has been very different for us than he was for his other franchises. I get that this season appears to be an outlier for him as well. 2020 being his only other good season.

We had enough data on Winston to know who he was. The constant turnovers also created a lot of his gaudy passing stats. Same with Freeman. He had huge INT numbers in every year but 2010. He was pretty much a disaster outside of that 10-6 season, which most of us knew was a sham due to the outrageously easy schedule they played. Both had huge red flags on and off the field, and neither had the respect of his teammates the way Baker seems to.

Winston and Freeman continued to be the same players after leaving the Bucs. Baker has not been the same player since coming to the Bucs. Maybe this is growth for him and not just happenstance or luck?

[Grahamburn]

The Reincarnation of Baker Mayfield

This was prior to his performance in the Jaguars game.

[Bootz]

4 years 120 million give him the same contract as evans since they're bros get it done dom

Shoot me right in my neezduts if we give baker that deal

$30mil is less than a franchise tag. A lot less. What kinda deal you offering Baker?

[mdb1958]

You guys play a game and it's called how to price yourself off a team. That game leads to another game called price yourself out of the league and/or late season mercenary.

[acmillis]

Shoot me right in my neezduts if we give baker that deal

$30mil is less than a franchise tag. A lot less. What kinda deal you offering Baker?

Preferably none.

[Bootz]

$30mil is less than a franchise tag. A lot less. What kinda deal you offering Baker?

Preferably none.

You're being delusional if you think we're just gonna ignore him.

[acmillis]

Preferably none.

You're being delusional if you think we're just gonna ignore him.

I’m being hopeful we don’t settle for a middling QB, forgive me for wanting steak when all that’s in the cupboard is sloppy Joe

[Bootz]

You're being delusional if you think we're just gonna ignore him.

I’m being hopeful we don’t settle for a middling QB, forgive me for wanting steak when all that’s in the cupboard is sloppy Joe

Well what's the name of the Coe you hope to wrangle?

[acmillis]

I’m being hopeful we don’t settle for a middling QB, forgive me for wanting steak when all that’s in the cupboard is sloppy Joe

Well what's the name of the Coe you hope to wrangle?

Draft a rookie you (gm) believe to be the best available. Pay him a total of what you’d pay baker in one year, for five year s of play…..profit

[Jonny]

I don't think I was, no. Neither of those players had a season anywhere near the one Baker is having, and for sure neither of them had their teammates believing the way Baker does right now.

Really? So 2010 was nothing like 2023? 2016 was nothing like 2023? Is that what you're saying? Freeman threw for 3450 yards 25 TD's and 6 Ints on 474 passes. Mayfield has 3598 yards 26 TD's and 8 Int's on 501 passes. The Bucs were 10-6 that year. Freeman's passer rating that year was 95.9 and his QBR was 69.5, where as Mayfield has a 96.2 passer rating and a 56.9 QBR.

In 2016, Winston's numbers were pretty close too... 4090, 28, and 18. He had a passer rating of 86.1 and a QBR of 59.5. Bucs won 9 games that year. Heck, even 2019, Winston's yards and TD's made Mayfield look like a kid. Yeah, he threw a ton of picks, but QBR number (which many hold more valid), .was 55.7, only a few ticks below Mayfield's 56.9. Winston did make the defense look worse than what they were, but they were still really bad on their own merit that year. At 7-7 with 2 weeks to go, there were still talks of possibly being 9-7 and making the playoffs.... AND still a potential at an extension for Winston.

In both cases though, they were 2nd year QB's, not 6th (like Mayfield). Mayfield won't pass Winston's passing yards and may equal his TD's over 16 games and will have no more than the same amount of wins. He's already needed 27 pass attempts to inch past Freeman in yards and TD's, and has more Int's. Both Freeman and Winston had higher QBR's. Mayfield can't win as many games as Freeman (in 16 games), and can only equal Winston.

So, don't give me this crap that neither Freeman nor Winston had "a season anywhere near the one Baker is having", because that's complete bull crap... and the players and team... and the fanbase (for the most part), were behind them as well. To say what you did, you must not have been a Bucs fan until 2020.

You make many valid points in terms of the risk of committing to a possible tease such as Baker.

A few disagreements: Baker's high end play is much much better than Winston's and Freeman's imo. Baker's release time and ball velocity are elite. That is why when he actually plays like a gun slinger, his short-intermediate throws are less likely to be intercepted even when DBs know where the ball is going. A few incompletions he had against the Jags in 3rd and 4th qtr would have been guaranteed INTs if it was Winston and Freeman.

I am hoping that this 2 week old version of Baker is what we get for remainder of this season. A trigger happy version of Baker, unlike a Winston, offers more upside than risk because of his superior physical tools.

If we see the tentative, but gritty Baker again, who we saw against the Falcons and Panthers, I will join your movement and hope that some other team commits a big part of their salary cap to his middling services.

[Doctor]

We'd be lucky if our rookie savior is winning us the division with Bakers stat line by year 4.

But by all means throw away a bird in hand because he played for the dirty Jets and Panthers.

[Snake]

The “every third year is good” bird in the hand.

[kaimaru]

He only won anything because of one of the best defenses out there. They could have Ray Lewis doing double duty as QB and won

Doesn't really matter why he won. If Dilfer can win a SB, then Mayfield can as well. From time to time, we tend to forget that football is a team game. Quarterback may be the most important position in sports, but you can win championships with one that just avoids turnovers and makes a play or two here and there. Dilfer did that in 2000, Foles did it in 2017, heck Brad Johnson did it in the first Bucs SB win.

Saying Mayfield can't win one with the Bucs ever is ignoring the fact that worse QBs have done it before.

He had 12 ints in 12 starts and added 11 fumbles. Avoided turnovers? No, that was a historic defense

[kaimaru]

Yes, more time in the system and building chemistry will clearly only lead to pumpkinism.

why did he regress big time from year 1 to year 2 under Stefanski? Because he had an injured non-throwing shoulder?

His injuries that year:
09/19/2021 Shoulder 0 Left shoulder dislocation, partially torn labrum, played through it
10/17/2021 Shoulder 1 Left shoulder dislocation, fractured humerus
10/07/2021 Foot 0 Left heel injury, likely bone bruise, possibly plantar fasciitis
11/14/2021 Knee 0 Right knee contusion, likely sprain & bone bruise
12/20/2021 COVID 1 Tested positive for COVID.

That's a lot of injuries and the humerus was on his throwing shoulder

[Snake]

why did he regress big time from year 1 to year 2 under Stefanski? Because he had an injured non-throwing shoulder?

His injuries that year:
09/19/2021 Shoulder 0 Left shoulder dislocation, partially torn labrum, played through it
10/17/2021 Shoulder 1 Left shoulder dislocation, fractured humerus
10/07/2021 Foot 0 Left heel injury, likely bone bruise, possibly plantar fasciitis
11/14/2021 Knee 0 Right knee contusion, likely sprain & bone bruise
12/20/2021 COVID 1 Tested positive for COVID.

That's a lot of injuries and the humerus was on his throwing shoulder

Sounds like a typical NFL season.

[Doctor]

So to be clear, the arguement right now is that a defensive HC with a first time OC and a GM $75M in debt with a pumpkin at QB... lucked their way to (maybe) a 10 win division title.

Okay, I don't know how to answer that one.

[kaimaru]

So to be clear, the arguement right now is that a defensive HC with a first time OC and a GM $75M in debt with a pumpkin at QB... lucked their way to (maybe) a 10 win division title.

Okay, I don't know how to answer that one.

They are saying that we should keep Bowels for the next 10 seasons as he is clearly the next Mike Tomlin

[kaimaru]

His injuries that year:
09/19/2021 Shoulder 0 Left shoulder dislocation, partially torn labrum, played through it
10/17/2021 Shoulder 1 Left shoulder dislocation, fractured humerus
10/07/2021 Foot 0 Left heel injury, likely bone bruise, possibly plantar fasciitis
11/14/2021 Knee 0 Right knee contusion, likely sprain & bone bruise
12/20/2021 COVID 1 Tested positive for COVID.

That's a lot of injuries and the humerus was on his throwing shoulder

Sounds like a typical NFL season.

Fractured humerus and pain with every throw which would affect his mechanics is a normal season for every QB?

[Snake]

They’ve punched above their weight, sure.

They still have the second worst point differential out of any division leader. They are in the worst division in football. They have, what, one win against teams with winning records this season?

The first round is not gonna end well if they happen to make the playoffs. I hope you’re ready.

[Snake]

Sounds like a typical NFL season.

Fractured humerus and pain with every throw which would affect his mechanics is a normal season for every QB?

Then why did they play him? I’m sorry, but playing hurt is part of being in the NFL.

[Navybuc]

So to be clear, the arguement right now is that a defensive HC with a first time OC and a GM $75M in debt with a pumpkin at QB... lucked their way to (maybe) a 10 win division title.

Okay, I don't know how to answer that one.

On the other end of the spectrum, some are acting like we are a Super Bowl team and should give our HC a 10-year contract when we haven’t really beaten a good team all year. (And no,
Jax is not a good team). I think we are about what our record is. We’re okay…not great…not horrible…but good enough to win in a shit-ass division but also bad enough to prolly get our ass kicked by Dallas again.

[Babeinbucland]

We may all be surprised in a good way next year.

I have no idea if honestly, we are seeing Mayfield at his best, but one thing I do want to insert into the dialogue here is that we should not underestimate team chemistry, coach, Support, affection for the organization, and his relative health now: all the intangibles that could be leading to him playing so much better.

I am absolutely committed to the belief that had anyone else other than shithead Schiano coached Josh Freeman, they would not have broken him and he could’ve ended up a much better player with a longer-term career. I think Schiano thought he could berate Freeman into a better QB. But he ended up undermining him, annihilating his self esteem, and wore him down and that didn’t support the psyche that Freeman had. It is possible with someone like Bowles for example, Freeman may have thrived. Most of us probably have had the experience with a superior that nurtured us and how we blossomed and a superior who vilified, patronized and degraded us and how that deflated us. That is the kind of intangible cannot be underestimated.

[Babeinbucland]

Conversely, by all accounts, Baker Mayfield has the complete opposite of that here. He has the belief of his coaches and support from them in the exact way he needs it. So it is entirely possible that we have yet to see present Baker Mayfield at his future best. We’re just seeing him at his best right now. That may very well not be all he is capable of in the future.

[Snake]

So to be clear, the arguement right now is that a defensive HC with a first time OC and a GM $75M in debt with a pumpkin at QB... lucked their way to (maybe) a 10 win division title.

Okay, I don't know how to answer that one.

On the other end of the spectrum, some are acting like we are a Super Bowl team and should give our HC a 10-year contract when we haven’t really beaten a good team all year. (And no,
Jax is not a good team). I think we are about what our record is. We’re okay…not great…not horrible…but good enough to win in a shit-ass division but also bad enough to prolly get our ass kicked by Dallas again.

This is where I am with everything. The Bucs winning this many games is admirable. But look through the schedule. It’s a LOT of bad teams. They did not beat anyone good.

The 49ers, Eagles, and Bills handled them.

[Doctor]

So... just curious... if we beat Dallas in the playoffs... then what?

[Snake]

Add 2023 Baker to this list.

A surprisingly similar stat line too