Chris Godwin: Out for the season

[ATrain]

Context matters. There's objective evidence that proves the Saints are a scumbag organization. They had a bounty program that their current active head coach condoned. The Saints are known for their dirty play

They don't get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to a player launching himself forearm first directly at a division rivals knee. If you want to carry water for the Saints, then fine. I won't though

That piece of shit could've tackled Godwin several different ways. Instead he launched himself at his knee.

Fuck the piece of shit Saints. I sincerely hope the Bucs players try to "legally" tackle kamara from here on out by launching themselves directly at his knee. Nothing dirty about it, right?

[King Bootz]

Not dirty, per-say. It’s unfortunate. No one called Devin dirty for taking out Winston.

A ton of people did nationally and especially Saints fans.

Neither were, but fans will be fans.

When I think dirty I think Dante Wesley teeing off on Peanut Smith. Or Suh stepping on the lineman's helmet or ankle or wherever he stepped back then. Or half of what Bill Romanowski did. That's dirty.

[13F11B]

To be honest there is no way to know if the hit was dirty. For me to know it was dirty requires knowing that the intent was to hurt someone and there is almost no way to know that.

Hopefully then that puts an end to your bitching and whining about it. Sucks you left Rocker out to dry. He went out on a limb for you to try to get one over on me and you pulled the rug from underneath him.

Given your exhibited overall lack of English language skills and intelligence, I will let Rocker let me know if he felt I left him out to dry.

[King Bootz]

Hopefully then that puts an end to your bitching and whining about it. Sucks you left Rocker out to dry. He went out on a limb for you to try to get one over on me and you pulled the rug from underneath him.

Given your exhibited overall lack of English language skills and intelligence, I will let Rocker let me know if he felt I left him out to dry.

He no doubt will say no to save face. But both USC and I have called him out for defending you on a point you never made. You said yourself that the hit was legal, while Rocker stated that you were questioning the legality of the hit within the rules.

You said you were done but it's clear you want your 15 minutes. So the floor is yours, kiddo.

[mdb1958]

Anyone remember the UDFA trying to make the team when someone took both his knees out?

[13F11B]

Given your exhibited overall lack of English language skills and intelligence, I will let Rocker let me know if he felt I left him out to dry.

He no doubt will say no to save face. But both USC and I have called him out for defending you on a point you never made. You said yourself that the hit was legal, while Rocker stated that you were questioning the legality of the hit within the rules.

You said you were done but it's clear you want your 15 minutes. So the floor is yours, kiddo.

Last word game?

[King Bootz]

He no doubt will say no to save face. But both USC and I have called him out for defending you on a point you never made. You said yourself that the hit was legal, while Rocker stated that you were questioning the legality of the hit within the rules.

You said you were done but it's clear you want your 15 minutes. So the floor is yours, kiddo.

Last word game?

Ready when you are

[13F11B]

Last word game?

Ready when you are

Word.

[King Bootz]

Ready when you are

Word.

Winner

[13F11B]

Word.

Winner

My god you really are stuck in your early teens. You made me research how to ignore you on the forum. Well done.

[King Bootz]

Winner

My god you really are stuck in your early teens.

Says the guy who wanted to play a last word game

[nybf]

Keep this stupid shit over here please.

[Dread]

A ton of people did nationally and especially Saints fans.

Neither were, but fans will be fans.

When I think dirty I think Dante Wesley teeing off on Peanut Smith. Or Suh stepping on the lineman's helmet or ankle or wherever he stepped back then. Or half of what Bill Romanowski did. That's dirty.

The Devin White play was illegal per the letter of the law (horse collar) but all he did was grab the back of jersey and b/c Devin has incredible grip strength he was able to knock an awkward athlete like Jameis off balance and bring him down.

I don't think there was any ill-intent in what Devin did. The horse collar tackles was supposed to be around the neck area, but per the rule it states anywhere from the nameplate up. So Devin was just tad high on his grab.

But I don't view that as dirty.

As far as PJ Williams hit on Godwin, it was legal per the rules but far more of a 'dirty play' imo. Going low on a ball carrier who is in a defenseless position is pretty cheap and dirty imo. But we all understand why DBs do it these days.

What is crazy to me is that a defender can't go low/cut on a Olinemen anymore even though the Olinemen can see them coming and are not in a defenseless position, yet it's perfectly legal to go low on WR who is in a defenses position.

Doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what the right answer is either, but they have to get hits like was saw on Godwin out of the game.

[ATrain]

When I think dirty I think Dante Wesley teeing off on Peanut Smith. Or Suh stepping on the lineman's helmet or ankle or wherever he stepped back then. Or half of what Bill Romanowski did. That's dirty.

The Devin White play was illegal per the letter of the law (horse collar) but all he did was grab the back of jersey and b/c Devin has incredible grip strength he was able to knock an awkward athlete like Jameis off balance and bring him down.

I don't think there was any ill-intent in what Devin did. The horse collar tackles was supposed to be around the neck area, but per the rule it states anywhere from the nameplate up. So Devin was just tad high on his grab.

But I don't view that as dirty.

As far as PJ Williams hit on Godwin, it was legal per the rules but far more of a 'dirty play' imo. Going low on a ball carrier who is in a defenseless position is pretty cheap and dirty imo. But we all understand why DBs do it these days.

What is crazy to me is that a defender can't go low/cut on a Olinemen anymore even though the Olinemen can see them coming and are not in a defenseless position, yet it's perfectly legal to go low on WR who is in a defenses position.

Doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what the right answer is either, but they have to get hits like was saw on Godwin out of the game.

They have a giant hit zone even without being dirty and targeting knees. it's just a cheap and lazy way to take someone down and it cost Godwin this season at the very least.

If PJ can't make the tackle without using a dirty tactic, then he doesn't deserve the tackle. It's not like he was trying to wrap up and put Godwin on his ass. He launched into Godwin's knee intentionally. Damn straight that shit needs to be removed from the game.

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the rules get changed after that because NOBODY wants those hits in the game.

[Buc2]

I don't know what the right answer is either, but they have to get hits like was saw on Godwin out of the game.

[King Bootz]

The Devin White play was illegal per the letter of the law (horse collar) but all he did was grab the back of jersey and b/c Devin has incredible grip strength he was able to knock an awkward athlete like Jameis off balance and bring him down.

I don't think there was any ill-intent in what Devin did. The horse collar tackles was supposed to be around the neck area, but per the rule it states anywhere from the nameplate up. So Devin was just tad high on his grab.

But I don't view that as dirty.

As far as PJ Williams hit on Godwin, it was legal per the rules but far more of a 'dirty play' imo. Going low on a ball carrier who is in a defenseless position is pretty cheap and dirty imo. But we all understand why DBs do it these days.

What is crazy to me is that a defender can't go low/cut on a Olinemen anymore even though the Olinemen can see them coming and are not in a defenseless position, yet it's perfectly legal to go low on WR who is in a defenses position.

Doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what the right answer is either, but they have to get hits like was saw on Godwin out of the game.

They have a giant hit zone even without being dirty and targeting knees. it's just a cheap and lazy way to take someone down and it cost Godwin this season at the very least.

If PJ can't make the tackle without using a dirty tactic, then he doesn't deserve the tackle. It's not like he was trying to wrap up and put Godwin on his ass. He launched into Godwin's knee intentionally. Damn straight that shit needs to be removed from the game.

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the rules get changed after that because NOBODY wants those hits in the game.

If these kind of hits haven't been outlawed out of the game yet, this isn't the hit that's gonna do it.

There's thousands and thousands of clips of defenders going low on ball carriers. And since the league had to settle that lawsuit from players suing because of the impacts concussions and head injuries had on their, the strike zone has been lowered significantly.

If this is kept up, it's gonna turn into flag football. Fans already complain that you can't hit QBs now they want to make the game even less violent? Be careful what you wish for.


Edit: Exactly what @Buc2 said. That's what we're gonna get eventually. It's a violent game and people want it to be less violent.

[ATrain]

Going after someone's knees isn't about violence. It's a dirty cheap shot. It's an unwritten rule.

If PJ wanted to be "violent" he would've manned up and tried to deliver a thumping tackle but instead he acted like the dirty scumbag he is and went after Godwin's knees. Not a surprise given the revolting organization he plays for.

It was a bitch ass little dick cheap shot and nothing else.

[King Bootz]

Going after someone's knees isn't about violence. It's a dirty cheap shot. It's an unwritten rule.

If PJ wanted to be "violent" he would've manned up and tried to deliver a thumping tackle but instead he acted like the dirty scumbag he is and went after Godwin's knees. Not a surprise given the revolting organization he plays for.

It was a bitch ass little dick cheap shot and nothing else.

Shoulder hit thigh. Plus you'd have to know his intent. I'm assuming you do?

[ATrain]

Want a violent hit that wasn't some pussy ass intentional knee shot? Here you go:




THAT was a violent hit that didn't resort to playing like a punk ass bitch. And hell, Gronk should illicit those knee shots way more than tiny ass Godwin.

But then again that's a Rams player and not a dirty scumbag Saints player so it's not shocking he chose to play like a man and not like a bounty hunting piece of shit.

[ATrain]

Going after someone's knees isn't about violence. It's a dirty cheap shot. It's an unwritten rule.

If PJ wanted to be "violent" he would've manned up and tried to deliver a thumping tackle but instead he acted like the dirty scumbag he is and went after Godwin's knees. Not a surprise given the revolting organization he plays for.

It was a bitch ass little dick cheap shot and nothing else.

Shoulder hit tight. Plus you'd have to know his intent. I'm assuming you do?

This isn't the one to be playing devil's advocate for.

You know the team, the history. It's obvious by the replay that he was launching at the knee. Please stop.

[King Bootz]

Shoulder hit tight. Plus you'd have to know his intent. I'm assuming you do?

This isn't the one to be playing devil's advocate for.

You know the team, the history. It's obvious by the replay that he was launching at the knee. Please stop.

You have to have something more than "but the team and their history"

[ATrain]

This isn't the one to be playing devil's advocate for.

You know the team, the history. It's obvious by the replay that he was launching at the knee. Please stop.

You have to have something more than "but the team and their history"

Oh I do, it's called the replay of the hit.

[Dread]

They have a giant hit zone even without being dirty and targeting knees. it's just a cheap and lazy way to take someone down and it cost Godwin this season at the very least.

If PJ can't make the tackle without using a dirty tactic, then he doesn't deserve the tackle. It's not like he was trying to wrap up and put Godwin on his ass. He launched into Godwin's knee intentionally. Damn straight that shit needs to be removed from the game.

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the rules get changed after that because NOBODY wants those hits in the game.

If these kind of hits haven't been outlawed out of the game yet, this isn't the hit that's gonna do it.

There's thousands and thousands of clips of defenders going low on ball carriers. And since the league had to settle that lawsuit from players suing because of the impacts concussions and head injuries had on their, the strike zone has been lowered significantly.

If this is kept up, it's gonna turn into flag football. Fans already complain that you can't hit QBs now they want to make the game even less violent? Be careful what you wish for.


Edit: Exactly what @Buc2 said. That's what we're gonna get eventually. It's a violent game and people want it to be less violent.

Yeah, I get it. I don't want the game any less physical than they already have made it. But something needs a tweak imo.

Not sure if you saw that Bears v Vikings game last night, but there was a passing play where the Vikings TE lays out to catch the ball on a seam throw and the Bears Safety #26 'Bush' comes over and makes a great play (imo), yet is called for a penalty for forcible contact on a 'defenseless receiver'. When you look at the replay the real hard contact was the TE hitting the ground and not anything too violent from #26.

So between the rule I cited about about not being able to go low on an Olinemen (even though they can see the defender coming) and the play I just mentioned above it doesn't make sense that they allow a defender to hit WRs low when they haven't completed the catch and/or turned their head around and located the defender. Is that not a defenseless player you're hitting in the knees?

Again, I get why defenders do it and I'm not saying it was malicious. They are trying to make the tackle and not get flagged. I just think that if a DB is going to go that low where the knees are getting hit that the receiver needs to be a more protected position as a ball carrier first.

[Digital_Damage]

A ton of people did nationally and especially Saints fans.

Neither were, but fans will be fans.

To be honest there is no way to know if the hit was dirty. For me to know it was dirty requires knowing that the intent was to hurt someone and there is almost no way to know that.

I think the defenders actions after the hit show that it was.

[13F11B]

To be honest there is no way to know if the hit was dirty. For me to know it was dirty requires knowing that the intent was to hurt someone and there is almost no way to know that.

I think the defenders actions after the hit show that it was.

That is possible. I did not review those.

[13F11B]

What is crazy to me is that a defender can't go low/cut on a Olinemen anymore even though the Olinemen can see them coming and are not in a defenseless position, yet it's perfectly legal to go low on WR who is in a defenses position.

Doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what the right answer is either, but they have to get hits like was saw on Godwin out of the game.

Can't go low on the QB either.

[King Bootz]

To be honest there is no way to know if the hit was dirty. For me to know it was dirty requires knowing that the intent was to hurt someone and there is almost no way to know that.

I think the defenders actions after the hit show that it was.

Wait a minute...Bradley Roby's actions after the catch shows PJ Williams' intent?? That's the narrative you're rolling with?

[Patrick McIrish]

I'd rather have lost AB or Evans for the season than Godwin.....

And I bet privately that Brady might say the same.

[Nobody]

I think the easiest way to look at the situation is it’s a Rorschach Test.

Given the Saints history, given what happened earlier this year with Jameis, given the dynamics of this hit snd the game at large, you can find evidence (certainly not insurmountable though) to make your claim that hit has either malice or sufficient indifference to constitute malice (which is what I think a lot of people are claiming out in the wild in media).

I think you can trivially make the other case as well (it wasn’t dirty…just modern football) given the targeting issues that have come to light (this exact same play happened to Gronk IMMEDIATELY after the defender responsibility targeting changes happened and it blew his knee out). You see this sort of play routinely (you saw it in this game multiple times…Gronk very narrowly missed having his knee blown out as well) in the NFL. Offensive players going down or protecting themselves (their lower halves) by going down or getting their legs out of trouble rather than trying to get RAC is commonplace.

We’ll never know if their was malice.

The case for negligence is much easier to make (but the case for that negligence/indifference constituting the equivalence of malice is very difficult to make IMO), but you absolutely have to mitigate that negligence with all the rest of the cognitive overhead a defender has to take on right now at this moment:

* I don’t want to get a crippling penalty + PF which could lead to subsequent ejection + possible fine.

* I HAVE to make this tackle. The gamestate and my guys depend upon it.

* Every tackle is about “sending a message “ insofar as I’m able.


The incentive structures of the NFL push heavily toward making the exact tackle that was made.

[ATrain]

I'd rather have lost AB or Evans for the season than Godwin.....

And I bet privately that Brady might say the same.

I agree. Chris was really starting to heat up and he was well on his way to a double digit reception day for the third week in a row.

Wouldn't shock me if Chris ended up catching up with Kupp by seasons end because he was being fed by Brady constantly.

Heartbreaking.

[Patrick McIrish]

I'd rather have lost AB or Evans for the season than Godwin.....

And I bet privately that Brady might say the same.

I agree. Chris was really starting to heat up and he was well on his way to a double digit reception day for the third week in a row.

Wouldn't shock me if Chris ended up catching up with Kupp by seasons end because he was being fed by Brady constantly.

Heartbreaking.

And he blocks like a man possessed.

[ATrain]

I agree. Chris was really starting to heat up and he was well on his way to a double digit reception day for the third week in a row.

Wouldn't shock me if Chris ended up catching up with Kupp by seasons end because he was being fed by Brady constantly.

Heartbreaking.

And he blocks like a man possessed.

Yeap, might be the best blocking WR in the league.

[kaimaru]

I just want to say, you said that about Shaq Barrett, too. What did he do? Tell his agent he wanted to stay in Tampa and nowhere else. Not everyone takes the highest offer. Is he more than likely going to take the most money? Of course, but always assuming is not always correct even if it is most of the time.

I said what exactly? That there's no guarantee Shaq would be back?

Let's keep this simple. Yes or no. Are you guaranteeing that we will re-sign Chris Godwin?

My apologies Bootz. During the "who should we franchise" last year. Everyone and their mother was saying if we didn't franchise Shaq again that he will go to someone willing to break the bank for him. I forgot that was during a period you were not posting on the previous site.

That said, no I am not going to guarantee that. I am sure he loves Tampa. I am sure if deals were similar emotion may play into it. We know it will be almost regular season until he will be cleared. He might even want to bet on himself and take a prove it deal with incentives and that would benefit us completely. I doubt anyone will be throwing 20 mill per year for someone who might not even be ready game one. Someone coming off an ACL tear. I am not guaranteeing anything in life, because I could guarantee I will make it home tonight and not. The truth is we have no idea what he will decide.

How many contacts in the NFL says we will pay you X dollars unless we think you aren't as good as you were before the injury, then we can just void it out? None?

Now he could get a long term contract with all kinds of incentives. That is much more likely. And if that is more likely then that is certainly something that gives advantage to us to resign.

[kaimaru]

I believe Bucs can franchise tag Godwin again to the tune of about $20M. That decision needs to be made in March, but no clue where it falls into his recovery window.

Not saying the Bucs would do that but it's an option.

Why would we franchise him not having a clue if he will even be healed enough to play the first game of the season?

[Snake]

Bucs don’t have enough cap space to spend $20m on franchising CG imo. It’s a dire situation cap wise, as is. The possibilities I see:

1. Franchise tag. Highly unlikely. Coming off big injury and almost assuredly starting season on PUP, limited cap space and a lot of roster openings, and you only retain control for 1 season.
2. Long, expensive deal. ACLs are routine at this point. CG is awesome. However, paying CG and ME both big $ may require some cap manipulation. That will probably happen anyways, who am I kidding. Seems like an unlikely luxury though. The ACL will cost CG a little something, perhaps in the way of AAV or some guaranteed $. but he should still have some big offers.
3. A bridge deal. Maybe 1 year incentives. CG reestablishes market value. Only happens if his market totally dries up which I can’t happening.
4. He walks.