Surprise Camp Cuts: what say you?

[mdb1958]

Was there any meniscus damage, just that can kill a career.

[Four Verticals]

Medical treatment for ACL/MCL/Meniscus tears has been improving for years. The recovery time has been reduced significantly. My son tore his ACL with some meniscus damage in Dec. '13. He was able to practice during his redshirt year in college but he said he didn't feel "good" until just about the 1 year mark. The same recovery is now 6-8 months. 12-15 years ago it was an 18 month injury. While Godwin being ready after 6 months would be quick but not out of the ordinary.

[King Bootz]

Let's shelve Godwin from the discussion, since he's almost certainly going to begin the year on the PUP.

How do you know this? My sources at OBP are telling me Godwin is running at full speed and will probably be ready for training camp.

This is a lie

[Cheb]

Maybe I’m putting too much stock into that going into halftime play against Green Bay in the playoffs. But I think Miller has a place in the WR room. Legit downfield speed.

I agree.

Let's not forget, Scotty Miller started our Superbowl averaging 60 yards per game for the first six games. I believe that he can regroup from his injured season last year and come back strong enough to win a roster spot.

In related news, Scotty Miller is entering his fourth season. I feel old.

[kaimaru]

Medical treatment for ACL/MCL/Meniscus tears has been improving for years. The recovery time has been reduced significantly. My son tore his ACL with some meniscus damage in Dec. '13. He was able to practice during his redshirt year in college but he said he didn't feel "good" until just about the 1 year mark. The same recovery is now 6-8 months. 12-15 years ago it was an 18 month injury. While Godwin being ready after 6 months would be quick but not out of the ordinary.

Studies have shown that ACL tears have greater re-tear rates when returning to play before 9 months, no matter how strong or prepared a person is, because the new graft has not fully remodeled so it is very important that Godwin is patient and returns when his body is ready. He will be doing plenty of sprints and plyometrics to put his knee to the test before he is cleared to practice with the team and will likely not be ready to play when the 2022 season starts.

https://3dpt.com/week-15-chris-godwin/

[MJW]

Maybe I’m putting too much stock into that going into halftime play against Green Bay in the playoffs. But I think Miller has a place in the WR room. Legit downfield speed.

I agree.

Let's not forget, Scotty Miller started our Superbowl averaging 60 yards per game for the first six games. I believe that he can regroup from his injured season last year and come back strong enough to win a roster spot.

In related news, Scotty Miller is entering his fourth season. I feel old.

Please do not interpret my words as meaning I want to move on from Scotty Miller. I want him to be the #3 target at least until Godwin comes back. I love me some Scotty Miller. But BA seemed to lose all interest in him down the stretch last year. I don't know why. I'm hopeful Lefty and Bowles gets him back in the gameplan now.

But if he's gonna be buried again, he does have some trade value. That's all.

[mdb1958]

He's limited - or was. And Brady had 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball.

That seemed to be how BA looked at it.

[Miller4Prez64]

I agree.

Let's not forget, Scotty Miller started our Superbowl averaging 60 yards per game for the first six games. I believe that he can regroup from his injured season last year and come back strong enough to win a roster spot.

In related news, Scotty Miller is entering his fourth season. I feel old.

Please do not interpret my words as meaning I want to move on from Scotty Miller. I want him to be the #3 target at least until Godwin comes back. I love me some Scotty Miller. But BA seemed to lose all interest in him down the stretch last year. I don't know why. I'm hopeful Lefty and Bowles gets him back in the gameplan now.

But if he's gonna be buried again, he does have some trade value. That's all.

Scotty wasn’t playing well at all after he came back from injury. Wasn’t getting seperation and he’s not the guy to trust for contested catches. Grayson may have stolen his deep threat role with his play down the stretch last year. But he too got injured so who knows where these guys are at for this season.

[MJW]

Please do not interpret my words as meaning I want to move on from Scotty Miller. I want him to be the #3 target at least until Godwin comes back. I love me some Scotty Miller. But BA seemed to lose all interest in him down the stretch last year. I don't know why. I'm hopeful Lefty and Bowles gets him back in the gameplan now.

But if he's gonna be buried again, he does have some trade value. That's all.

Scotty wasn’t playing well at all after he came back from injury. Wasn’t getting seperation and he’s not the guy to trust for contested catches. Grayson may have stolen his deep threat role with his play down the stretch last year. But he too got injured so who knows where these guys are at for this season.

I hope that's all it is - he wasn't healthy. IMHO we missed him a ton, and with the exception of 1 game (against a punch and judy Jets secondary), Grayson wasn't much of a replacement.

[mdb1958]

Would a surprise cut involve a new face when the 3 cuts happen? As late as we are on the waiver I guess we could have someone in mind and end up with someone different instead.

Is that 4 player protection thing still going on with the practice squad.

If a new face happened would you prefer that they be a younger talent?

[Miller4Prez64]

Scotty wasn’t playing well at all after he came back from injury. Wasn’t getting seperation and he’s not the guy to trust for contested catches. Grayson may have stolen his deep threat role with his play down the stretch last year. But he too got injured so who knows where these guys are at for this season.

I hope that's all it is - he wasn't healthy. IMHO we missed him a ton, and with the exception of 1 game (against a punch and judy Jets secondary), Grayson wasn't much of a replacement.

Grayson played well the week before the Jets game too. He had 50+ yards in all three games he saw significant snaps. I thought he honestly was more than a fine replacement.

[mdb1958]

Somehow Grayson brought about Brady's direction. That's how it seemed to me.

[MJW]

I hope that's all it is - he wasn't healthy. IMHO we missed him a ton, and with the exception of 1 game (against a punch and judy Jets secondary), Grayson wasn't much of a replacement.

Grayson played well the week before the Jets game too. He had 50+ yards in all three games he saw significant snaps. I thought he honestly was more than a fine replacement.

I could be damning him by small sample size, and that would be my fault. OBP will know better than I will. I've always believed in the NFL philosophy that if you haven't done anything in the league after X amount of years, you probably never will. But there are exceptions to that rule. Grayson, with his limited football experience, could be that guy.

[mdb1958]

Grayson played well the week before the Jets game too. He had 50+ yards in all three games he saw significant snaps. I thought he honestly was more than a fine replacement.

I could be damning him by small sample size, and that would be my fault. OBP will know better than I will. I've always believed in the NFL philosophy that if you haven't done anything in the league after X amount of years, you probably never will. But there are exceptions to that rule. Grayson, with his limited football experience, could be that guy.

Last year it was Mickens talking about Miller's speed - this year it's Grayson's turn.

[Nobody]

There is little chance he gets cut, but I think one possible big surprise going into the regular season is SMB might be relegated to DB6 to start.

Yes, we play majority Zone, but he’s always had major (you might even throttle this up to whatever designation is north of major) trouble as a Man defender. Some of that is the underwear athleticism doesn’t quite transfer. Some of that is instincts. Some of that is technique. Some of that is confidence.

He’s been injured a bit too much and a lot of that recent.

This is the final year of his rookie contract so we don’t have any reason to prioritize him for face-saving, developmental, or investment grounds.

We’ve got an abundance of hybrid DBs on the back of the back end. If you’re not an asset in Man (he’s the opposite), then you’re competing with those guys for their Zone capability. Bowles has historically been good with playing a lot of Safeties.

[mdb1958]

I guess we will see how well we address the NB position.

[Cheb]

I guess we will see how well we address the NB position.

I think we've addressed it well enough already.

We have the incumbent Seam Murphy-Bunting. While he hasn't been perfect, he's been better than alot of nickels in the league. If he returns healthy and hits the ground running, I think he can at least offer servicable reps. Probably won't replicate his playoff and Superbowl form, but if he gets somewhere close I think that's a win.

Behind him we have the wily veteran Logan Ryan, a hybrid S/CB with a pair of Superbowl rings and 115 starts in the NFL. Maybe he'll take the starting nickel job, maybe he'll take over the starting strong safety gig. Hell, he may do both, as a strong on early downs and as a nickel on third down packages, with Edwards taking the role of third down safety.

Then we have wildcards like Zyon McCollum and Ross Cockrell and even Dee Delaney, any of whom may have a great camp and surprise us all by earning a large chunk of snaps.

As I said, we've addressed nickelback and corner in general pretty well already. The only thing that remains to be seen is who is the guy who wins it.

[mdb1958]

I said this previously, if our pass defense improves we will no longer be the least rushed on defense in the league.

[King Bootz]

I guess we will see how well we address the NB position.

I think we've addressed it well enough already.

We have the incumbent Seam Murphy-Bunting. While he hasn't been perfect, he's been better than alot of nickels in the league. If he returns healthy and hits the ground running, I think he can at least offer servicable reps. Probably won't replicate his playoff and Superbowl form, but if he gets somewhere close I think that's a win.

Behind him we have the wily veteran Logan Ryan, a hybrid S/CB with a pair of Superbowl rings and 115 starts in the NFL. Maybe he'll take the starting nickel job, maybe he'll take over the starting strong safety gig. Hell, he may do both, as a strong on early downs and as a nickel on third down packages, with Edwards taking the role of third down safety.

Then we have wildcards like Zyon McCollum and Ross Cockrell and even Dee Delaney, any of whom may have a great camp and surprise us all by earning a large chunk of snaps.

As I said, we've addressed nickelback and corner in general pretty well already. The only thing that remains to be seen is who is the guy who wins it.

Has he??

We're probably all guilty of it when it comes to a lot of players, wearing the rose colored shades and all.

But I think SMB is one that everyone sees him for who he is. I wouldn't rank him very high amongst NBs in the league. I don't even think he's the best one in this division and I don't believe OBP does either. Logan Ryan will have a lot to say about how much playing time SMB gets inside. It simply has not panned out as well as his draft status may have indicated it might.

[_MB_]

I said this previously, if our pass defense improves we will no longer be the least rushed on defense in the league.

And teams that do choose to rush the ball will be doing it against the strength of the defense.

[mdb1958]

I said this previously, if our pass defense improves we will no longer be the least rushed on defense in the league.

And teams that do choose to rush the ball will be doing it against the strength of the defense.

Yes, winning possessions on the defensive side of the ball would improve us.

[mdb1958]

Yes Pete I guess it's possible the defense could score more points too. Good observation.

[The Outsider]

Something something rotate the guards.

[MJW]

There is little chance he gets cut, but I think one possible big surprise going into the regular season is SMB might be relegated to DB6 to start.

Yes, we play majority Zone, but he’s always had major (you might even throttle this up to whatever designation is north of major) trouble as a Man defender. Some of that is the underwear athleticism doesn’t quite transfer. Some of that is instincts. Some of that is technique. Some of that is confidence.

He’s been injured a bit too much and a lot of that recent.

This is the final year of his rookie contract so we don’t have any reason to prioritize him for face-saving, developmental, or investment grounds.

We’ve got an abundance of hybrid DBs on the back of the back end. If you’re not an asset in Man (he’s the opposite), then you’re competing with those guys for their Zone capability. Bowles has historically been good with playing a lot of Safeties.

My assumption has been that Dean will get paid - unless he plays himself out of our price range - and McCollum was drafted to replace SMB as the Nickel Back in 2023. Could it happen sooner? Dunno.

SMB has been very inconsistent in man coverage. Good in zone, and a very good tackler. But teams have begun picking on him in Man.

[mdb1958]

Inconsistent health could also play a role.

[MJW]

Inconsistent health could also play a role.

Dean honestly worries me a lot more. SMB's injury was freakish, that arm sandwich against Dallas. Dean has missed 7 games in three years, and limited snaps in some others, and as I recall had both his knees repaired in college.

We can't have enough corner depth for me. I'm very excited about McCollum, and even more excited that Logan Ryan can easily move to corner and play at a high level if we want him to.

Also, despite mentioning him in this thread, I'm still a Cockrell fan personally. At least as a 5th corner.

[mdb1958]

There is also a maybe that surprise cuts from other teams could travel down the waiver for us to pick up as camp nears.

[_MB_]

Pinion

► Show Spoiler

I kid! I kid!

Cut this morning. Saves $2M of cap space.

[Buc2]

Pinion

► Show Spoiler

I kid! I kid!

Cut this morning. Saves $2M of cap space.

Right. Not a surprise cut. Hence, the "I kid, I kid" spoiler.

[_MB_]

Cut this morning. Saves $2M of cap space.

Right. Not a surprise cut. Hence, the "I kid, I kid" spoiler.

I know. Had to post it somewhere.

[Buc2]

Right. Not a surprise cut. Hence, the "I kid, I kid" spoiler.

I know. Had to post it somewhere.

I'm still surprised they waited this long. But, when I think about it, now is probably the best time for him with teams getting ready to head into training camps.

[_MB_]

I know. Had to post it somewhere.

I'm still surprised they waited this long. But, when I think about it, now is probably the best time for him with teams getting ready to head into training camps.

Yeah, they did him a favor doing it before camp so he can get a contract quickly.

[mdb1958]

Are Glen Logan and Isaiah Thomas in danger of not making Cleveland's roster?
D'Anthony Bell too.

[_MB_]

Are Glen Logan and Isaiah Thomas in danger of not making Cleveland's roster?
D'Anthony Bell too.

Let me tell you about a website called reddit.com.

It's a big, giant website with millions of people on it and it's organized into subreddits. Each subreddit is like it's own message board.

There's a subreddit for virtually interest under the sun. Painting, SCUBA, astrophotography, all political persuasions, and pretty much anything you can think of including the Cleveland Browns.

I guarantee you that if you go to r/browns and ask this very question, you will get an answer fairly quickly by someone who gives a crap.

[_MB_]

The fucking retard can barely figure out how to log into a fringe forum... I'm sure the senile fuck will figure out reddit wi5h no issue.

Solid.

He won't try it because he thinks it's full of degenerate kids which isn't too far off but there's more than enough sports fans in there that can actually field these questions.