Kona wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:38 pm
That’s disappointing we couldn’t figure out a long term extension.
Very.
We want Godwin here and are willing to pay him appropriately, given the first and apparently second franchise tags. He's a great player and a model teammate. Why aren't we signing him to a long-term deal? Can his requests really be that unreasonable?
Kona wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:38 pm
That’s disappointing we couldn’t figure out a long term extension.
Very.
We want Godwin here and are willing to pay him appropriately, given the first and apparently second franchise tags. He's a great player and a model teammate. Why aren't we signing him to a long-term deal? Can his requests really be that unreasonable?
Maybe he wants to leave or at least test the market.
We want Godwin here and are willing to pay him appropriately, given the first and apparently second franchise tags. He's a great player and a model teammate. Why aren't we signing him to a long-term deal? Can his requests really be that unreasonable?
Maybe he wants to leave or at least test the market.
I'm sure he does want to look around. I mean, I don't get the "hometown discount" theory when we are a team with no viable QB throwing him the ball and a coach on the verge of retirement. What's the draw? F'ing hot weather and the Glazers? No way.
If I'm a guy with the potential to earn generational money for my family, I probably don't put too much stock in wanting to show loyalty to a logo that will cut me the minute I'm no longer useful or something shinier comes along.
The tag was (somewhat) understandable last year for Godwin. This year it makes zero sense. I'm inclined to agree with @uscbucsfan in that he probably wants to test the market. Either way, given the circumstances I don't see Godwin playing 2022 on the franchise tag. We'll either give him an extension or he'll be traded elsewhere.
It's a risk but I'd let him test the market. He'd no doubt have a hot one, he's a stud. But I doubt someone else is going to believe in him post injury as much as us and match our guaranteed money. Not to mention it's a thick WR market.
Real question, what happens if Godwin comes back plays 16 games for 800 yards and 8 TDs.
Doctor wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:13 pm
It's a risk but I'd let him test the market. He'd no doubt have a hot one, he's a stud. But I doubt someone else is going to believe in him post injury as much as us and match our guaranteed money. Not to mention it's a thick WR market.
Real question, what happens if Godwin comes back plays 16 games for 800 yards and 8 TDs.
Who's the QB in that scenario? Those are probably great numbers if it's a Gabbert/Trask combo.
You keep Godwin because he's a great person, great player, teammate, etc. And because he already blew out his knee on the tag. Don't do that to him again. Long term extension please and then hope we get elite QB play again at some point while he's still a Buc.
We basically had 2 years to work out an extension with Godwin and failed. Now we're going to deal with a $19 mil cap hit with an iffy cap situation, when a long-term deal could have cut that number in half. This is a failure by OBP.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
I mean it's easy to say "this is a failure" but there are two sides to a negotiation. I've been saying Godwin walks since last year because I saw him hitting top 9 figure money we just couldn't match. Period. The only reason I think we're even in the conversation right now is that he got hurt.
Also, on the other end, let's not pretend that Godwin's extensive injury history the last few years doesn't merit some hesitation. OBJ was a top talent on the field but plagued by nagging injury after injury. Not saying Godwin is destined for the same but right now it's quacking like a duck.
Tagging Godwin cripples the Bucs ability to re-sign others due to the guaranteed nature of the tag.
I'm not really a fan of using a 2nd tag on Godwin. Let him test FA and we can compete in the open market, atleast that way we can be creative with the contract structure. It's not like Godwin is getting much more per year in FA that than the $19.1M the tag demands the Bucs pay him.
I want Godwin back, but if he is set on forcing the Bucs to tag him or else he's going to test the market then it is what it is. That's the business of the NFL and I don't blame him for trying to get the max money possible.
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:11 am
We'll see what happens in the next 24hrs.
Tagging Godwin cripples the Bucs ability to re-sign others due to the guaranteed nature of the tag.
I'm not really a fan of using a 2nd tag on Godwin. Let him test FA and we can compete in the open market, atleast that way we can be creative with the contract structure. It's not like Godwin is getting much more per year in FA that than the $19.1M the tag demands the Bucs pay him.
I want Godwin back, but if he is set on forcing the Bucs to tag him or else he's going to test the market then it is what it is. That's the business of the NFL and I don't blame him for trying to get the max money possible.
compete in the open market
So lose him and the comp pick for more uncertainty?
Dread wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:11 am
We'll see what happens in the next 24hrs.
Tagging Godwin cripples the Bucs ability to re-sign others due to the guaranteed nature of the tag.
I'm not really a fan of using a 2nd tag on Godwin. Let him test FA and we can compete in the open market, atleast that way we can be creative with the contract structure. It's not like Godwin is getting much more per year in FA that than the $19.1M the tag demands the Bucs pay him.
I want Godwin back, but if he is set on forcing the Bucs to tag him or else he's going to test the market then it is what it is. That's the business of the NFL and I don't blame him for trying to get the max money possible.
compete in the open market
So lose him and the comp pick for more uncertainty?
What comp pick?
Godwin on a 1yr deal worth $19.1 isn't worth it imo. If Brady was back I could understand, but we need to make moves with a future beyond 2022 in mind.
What is to stop Godwin from becoming a free agent next offseason? If he's really holding the Bucs hostage to where he won't re-sign a new contract until he's able to hit FA then even if we tag him this offseason again to prevent that, what makes you think he wouldn't do the same thing next offseason when we won't have the tag option for him?
My point is why kick the can down the road for 1 season at the cost of a guaranteed $19.1 that cripples the Bucs ability to retain other players when Godwin is likely to do this again next offseason (when the cost will be even higher).
The Bucs are going to have to compete in the open market to re-sign Godwin this March or next March either way. So let's just do it this year. If Godwin really wants to go to the highest bidder then good for him.
Why do people act like giving Godwin $19M is breaking the cap? Also, wtf you think he's making in the open market? If not for his injury I would've expected him to be pushing $25M/yr easy. Getting him at 19 is a bargain.
Also it gives us a ton of leverage in further negotiations. We can extend him further on a tag and OBP would have the leverage. Godwin knows he's hurt, he could come in and have a down year and be looking at "prove it" deals next year anyway. Worst still if he gets hurt again. When faced with that or an even moderately reasonable extension, it's not hard to see where the pressure will be.
Honestly I think the non-exclusive tag is the best option here. It lets him test the market and see just how warm it is for him and even if we get outbid by a cap rich team we get something in return. If the market is cooler than expect, our deal would look all that much better.
Why are people acting like a $19mil fully guaranteed 1 year deal is breaking the cap? Idk, maybe it's because we have about $22mil in total cap space? Just a thought.
Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:44 am
Why do people act like giving Godwin $19M is breaking the cap? Also, wtf you think he's making in the open market? If not for his injury I would've expected him to be pushing $25M/yr easy. Getting him at 19 is a bargain.
Also it gives us a ton of leverage in further negotiations. We can extend him further on a tag and OBP would have the leverage. Godwin knows he's hurt, he could come in and have a down year and be looking at "prove it" deals next year anyway. Worst still if he gets hurt again. When faced with that or an even moderately reasonable extension, it's not hard to see where the pressure will be.
Honestly I think the non-exclusive tag is the best option here. It lets him test the market and see just how warm it is for him and even if we get outbid by a cap rich team we get something in return. If the market is cooler than expect, our deal would look all that much better.
Because the tag is very inflexible to the cap.
Once we tag Godwin that $19.1M is guaranteed for 2022 against the Bucs cap, which means our FO can't manipulate it and is forced to work around it since all $19.1M gets accounted into out 2022 cap as we head into free agency. Less than ideal imo..
Whereas if we re-sign Godwin to a contract (lets say that is $19.1M in AAV) we can manipulate the 2022 cap hit with various mechanisms that the franchise tag doesn't allow for.
I personally don't think Godwin is going to get as much as you're claiming. The Cowboys are releasing Amari Cooper b/c $20M was too much and I'd bet Cooper doesn't get $20M AAV from a new team. Other WRs like Allen Robinson and OBJ (maybe Devante Adams) are also free agents.
The type of tag (exclusive vs non-exclusive) is also irrelevant since we capped Godwin last year thus tagging him again automatically triggers the 120% of last year's salary kicker for a 2nd tag.
I see what Greg is saying. But I highly doubt Licht wants to continue deviating from his normal formula of front-loading contracts and not giving SBs. Especially with the QB situation being what it is. The entire point of the strategy was having flexibility in future caps. We've already lost a lot of that leverage the last 2 offseasons. I don't see him making it a norm.
Snake wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:51 pm
“If not for his injury I would've expected him to be pushing $25M/yr easy”
I think this is ridiculous. Godwin is a great weapon. He is not a Hopkins level WR.
When will you people learn that "who is better" weighs far less than "who signed more recently" when it comes to comparing player contracts.
So Amari Cooper and Keenan Allen got 20 million per year in 2020. You really think in two years that wide receiver pay is going to jump 25%? You're crazy.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:04 pm
I see what Greg is saying. But I highly doubt Licht wants to continue deviating from his normal formula of front-loading contracts and not giving SBs. Especially with the QB situation being what it is. The entire point of the strategy was having flexibility in future caps. We've already lost a lot of that leverage the last 2 offseasons. I don't see him making it a norm.
It depends on how he sees this team.
If he thinks we're a strong offseason away from another title run, he backloads the deal as much as possible.
If he recognizes we're back in 2017 or so, he frontloads it as you say.
Regardless, Greg hit the nail on the head. We had 2 years to work out this deal. Now we're going to lose players we want to keep because we were unable to, and we're likely going to see CD hit the open market. I HOPE Godwin is asking for some insane number, because otherwise this is a huge fail.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
If its a non exclusive tag he'll be able to negotiate a deal with another team and see just where his market is at. May be cooler than he thinks, particularly in guaranteed money.
