Welcome to Tampa, Emeka Egbuka

[__Chef__]

Bowles acknowledging that he can't even do workouts outdoors yet means they're still worried about the stability of the ankle on different terrains.

We're getting into grey area here. Was it that he can't or that they are operating in an abundance of caution? I'd assume he's going with the trainer's advice and it's the latter ... as you said surface stability, predictability.

[Bootz]

Bowles acknowledging that he can't even do workouts outdoors yet means they're still worried about the stability of the ankle on different terrains.

We're getting into grey area here. Was it that he can't or that they are operating in an abundance of caution? I'd assume he's going with the trainer's advice and it's the latter ... as you said surface stability, predictability.

In a rehabilitation process you can proceed with caution, but you still have to proceed forward to reach the goals that are set. They are never going to want to move too slowly because that extends your recovery time.

Bowles stated that he was not yet clear to do work outside. Thats different than proceeding with caution. My guess is he's probably not even running yet.

The pace of Godwin's recovery from this injury should make it obvious to everyone that we truly dont know the extent of the injury but it's a lot more serious than they anticipated.

For context, Godwin tore his ACL/MCL in December of 2021 and he was back on the practice field by the end of TC. This injury occured in October and it's all but been confirmed that he wont be available early in the season.

Glass half full, OBP is just taking extra precautions before getting him back in action. But knowing what I know about the rehabilitation process, and the fact that stagnation can be your worst enemy, I fear it wont be good news early on. Maybe not at all.

[__Chef__]

We're getting into grey area here. Was it that he can't or that they are operating in an abundance of caution? I'd assume he's going with the trainer's advice and it's the latter ... as you said surface stability, predictability.

In a rehabilitation process you can proceed with caution, but you still have to proceed forward to reach the goals that are set. They are never going to want to move too slowly because that extends your recovery time.

Bowles stated that he was not yet clear to do work outside. Thats different than proceeding with caution. My guess is he's probably not even running yet.

The pace of Godwin's recovery from this injury should make it obvious to everyone that we truly dont know the extent of the injury but it's a lot more serious than they anticipated.

For context, Godwin tore his ACL/MCL in December of 2021 and he was back on the practice field by the end of TC. This injury occured in October and it's all but been confirmed that he wont be available early in the season.

Glass half full, OBP is just taking extra precautions before getting him back in action. But knowing what I know about the rehabilitation process, and the fact that stagnation can be your worst enemy, I fear it wont be good news early on. Maybe not at all.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter, and as you said there are steps one would be making in the rehab process, but the variable of terrain would/could be a stumbling block which just throws a curveball into that rehab process unnecessarily.

Like you said, it has been a long time though ... is it possible he was rehabbing it and then reaggravated it along the way?

[Bootz]

In a rehabilitation process you can proceed with caution, but you still have to proceed forward to reach the goals that are set. They are never going to want to move too slowly because that extends your recovery time.

Bowles stated that he was not yet clear to do work outside. Thats different than proceeding with caution. My guess is he's probably not even running yet.

The pace of Godwin's recovery from this injury should make it obvious to everyone that we truly dont know the extent of the injury but it's a lot more serious than they anticipated.

For context, Godwin tore his ACL/MCL in December of 2021 and he was back on the practice field by the end of TC. This injury occured in October and it's all but been confirmed that he wont be available early in the season.

Glass half full, OBP is just taking extra precautions before getting him back in action. But knowing what I know about the rehabilitation process, and the fact that stagnation can be your worst enemy, I fear it wont be good news early on. Maybe not at all.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter, and as you said there are steps one would be making in the rehab process, but the variable of terrain would/could be a stumbling block which just throws a curveball into that rehab process unnecessarily.

Like you said, it has been a long time though ... is it possible he was rehabbing it and then reaggravated it along the way?

I never thought about the possibility that he had some type of set back. But that would also make sense.

The thing that keeps playing in my mind is the fact that Bowles in December indicated they felt there was a chance Godwin could be available for a deep playoff run. He certainly had enough information from either the training staff or FO to indicate that it was a possibility, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it. It confuses me that we go from "We could have him back in February" to "well he's not even cleared to practice outside" in May/June.

I hope we just get to TC next month and the word is Chris Godwin is good to practice and be ready for week 1.

[mdb1958]

Was Justin Evans ever fixed? One has to wonder how 10 solid years from him would have been.

[Bootz]

Was Justin Evans ever fixed? One has to wonder how 10 solid years from him would have been.

He was never that good, even when he was healthy.

[CannonFire]

Ah, yes. The Bucs fucked up yet again. They have one of the suckiest operations in the NFL.

Is today "Overreaction Day"?

ETA: My bad... you posted that yesterday. Was yesterday, "Overreaction Day"?

[Buc2]

Ah, yes. The Bucs fucked up yet again. They have one of the suckiest operations in the NFL.

Is today "Overreaction Day"?

ETA: My bad... you posted that yesterday. Was yesterday, "Overreaction Day"?

It's called sarcasm.

► Show Spoiler

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

[mdb1958]

Was 2010 to 2020 the lost decade? Firing your entire offensive line was just a small setback.

[Bootz]

Was 2010 to 2020 the lost decade? Firing your entire offensive line was just a small setback.

Moreso 2009-2019. But I get your point.

[__Chef__]

Was 2010 to 2020 the lost decade? Firing your entire offensive line was just a small setback.

Yes, yes it was ... a very sad, depressing time to be a Bucs fan. Was like wandering in the desert and you're eyes start playing tricks on you seeing an oasis at the horizon ... just make it to the horizon ... just survive ... nope, just another mirage ... but hey wait a minute, look just over there, is that a palm tree in the distance?

[Buc2]

Was 2010 to 2020 the lost decade? Firing your entire offensive line was just a small setback.

Yes, yes it was ... a very sad, depressing time to be a Bucs fan. Was like wandering in the desert and you're eyes start playing tricks on you seeing an oasis at the horizon ... just make it to the horizon ... just survive ... nope, just another mirage ... but hey wait a minute, look just over there, is that a palm tree in the distance?

You young pups were spared wandering the wilderness of 1984-1996. 14 lost years when their best season was a 7-9 record under Sam Wyche in 1995. It featured 3 two win seasons, a 3 win season, and 4 five win seasons.

[__Chef__]

Yes, yes it was ... a very sad, depressing time to be a Bucs fan. Was like wandering in the desert and you're eyes start playing tricks on you seeing an oasis at the horizon ... just make it to the horizon ... just survive ... nope, just another mirage ... but hey wait a minute, look just over there, is that a palm tree in the distance?

You young pups were spared wandering the wilderness of 1984-1996. 14 lost years when their best season was a 7-9 record under Sam Wyche in 1995. It featured 3 two win seasons, a 3 win season, and 4 five win seasons.

Yeah, those were the "there is no oasis on the horizon" years ... I don't know how they sustained a fanbase at all, then.

[Buc2]

You young pups were spared wandering the wilderness of 1984-1996. 14 lost years when their best season was a 7-9 record under Sam Wyche in 1995. It featured 3 two win seasons, a 3 win season, and 4 five win seasons.

Yeah, those were the "there is no oasis on the horizon" years ... I don't know how they sustained a fanbase at all, then.

Trust me, it was tough to stay a Bucs fan. But plenty of us diehards did. It certainly made the winning years that came after that so much the sweeter, though with the 2002 SB win the reward for our sticking it out. Just like the 2020 SB was the reward for sticking out the previous decade. Hopefully, we don't go into the dumpster for another decade+ ride.

[CannonFire]

Is today "Overreaction Day"?

ETA: My bad... you posted that yesterday. Was yesterday, "Overreaction Day"?

It's called sarcasm.

► Show Spoiler

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

On this website, one never knows.

[Central_Buc]

Yeah, those were the "there is no oasis on the horizon" years ... I don't know how they sustained a fanbase at all, then.

Trust me, it was tough to stay a Bucs fan. But plenty of us diehards did. It certainly made the winning years that came after that so much the sweeter, though with the 2002 SB win the reward for our sticking it out. Just like the 2020 SB was the reward for sticking out the previous decade. Hopefully, we don't go into the dumpster for another decade+ ride.

With the way the NFL is today with cap, Free agency and more teams it's kind of hard to be bad for a length of time unless you have bad ownership. I dont think we will see that length of bad again.

[Doctor]

What are you talking about? There are plenty of teams that are "that bad". Franchises that have won before.

QBless teams continue to sputter in circles, cycling thru periods of hope and despair. Reinvigorated Brady and Baker cannot be understated. Like seriously cannot.

We aren't a result of the modern NFL. We are the result of a lot of really good, hard work by a lot of people. And it can go away just as quickly.

[Buc2]

What are you talking about? There are plenty of teams that are "that bad". Franchises that have won before.

QBless teams continue to sputter in circles, cycling thru periods of hope and despair. Reinvigorated Brady and Baker cannot be understated. Like seriously cannot.

We aren't a result of the modern NFL. We are the result of a lot of really good, hard work by a lot of people. And it can go away just as quickly.

As a forever Buc fan, you bet your ass it can go away just as quickly. I've seen it happen twice. I'm hoping we're not coming up on the 3rd time anytime soon.

[Phantom]

Lookin good fella!

[acmillis]

…and he already has more sacks than our last first round pick to wear 9…

[CannonFire]

…and he already has more sacks than our last first round pick to wear 9…

[Doctor]

Was hoping he'd continue the count and go 16.

Maybe he's waiting for Trask to lose to Pratt

[Central_Buc]

What are you talking about? There are plenty of teams that are "that bad". Franchises that have won before.

QBless teams continue to sputter in circles, cycling thru periods of hope and despair. Reinvigorated Brady and Baker cannot be understated. Like seriously cannot.

We aren't a result of the modern NFL. We are the result of a lot of really good, hard work by a lot of people. And it can go away just as quickly.

You are not all wrong but did you skip where I said "if bad ownership" Yes there are bad franchises that have stayed bad. Cleveland is one example where they just self destruct themselves (i.e Baker) when all he did was take them to the divisional round.

The Jets are interesting too. Seems like no matter what they do or try doing it never works and they have some solid players. Every once in a while a blind squirl finds a nut and they are definitely due for a good season.

But my point is that unlike prior to 1993 where teams (no free agency) could only rely on the draft and some teams had to slug it out due to poor drafts: now is a better chance for a bad franchise to get good quickly if the right choices are made and things come together with the mix of both draft and free agency. That doesn't mean it will happen but a better chance is better than no chance.

[Snake]

Scwiinngggg

[Grahamburn]

[Buc2]

Kid seems to have it all. Inside routes. Outside routes. Screens. Underneath. Over the top. Physical. Makes contested catches routine. Doesn't give away that the ball is coming to him too soon. How in the world could he have been under anyone's radar is beyond me.

[Snake]

He wasn’t under the radar for NFL teams.

I disagree with that tweeter though. In one tweet he calls EE “the highest floor in the draft” and in another says “the ceiling is not limited.”

If both of these things were true, he would’ve been a sure-fire top 5 pick.

I like the player. My snap reaction upon drafting him was happiness. He’s a craft geek, proven producer, leader, and an adequate athlete by NFL WR standards.

It doesn’t take a genius to watch the film and see there’s a clear ceiling here. He has sure, quiet hands. He’s great at reading defenses pre and post snap, and finding soft spots in the zone. Very valuable in the modern shell defense NFL. 3rd/slot WRs are on the field like 85%+ of the time in the modern NFL. So the snaps are there. But so are the free releases, mismatches vs. LB/S, rubs/picks.

Simultaneously, the most valuable WRs are the boundary WRs who draw and beat the toughest coverage. EE didn’t really have a chance to do that, with Ohio State’s wide receiver room. Not to say he COULDN’T. But it’s a different animal.

[Grahamburn]

The only question mark and reason he fell to where he did is he doesn't possess uber-elite athleticism. History has told us you don't have to have elite athleticism to be an elite WR though.

Every player has a ceiling. It is a little hyperbolic to call his ceiling "unlimited" for sure. Can agree there. He's not Calvin Johnson.

[Snake]

The only question mark and reason he fell to where he did is he doesn't possess uber-elite athleticism. History has told us you don't have to have elite athleticism to be an elite WR though.

Every player has a ceiling. It is a little hyperbolic to call his ceiling "unlimited" for sure. Can agree there. He's not Calvin Johnson.

Athleticism comes in different forms.

Jerry Rice legendarily ran a 4.7, or whatever. with modern training/technique it would’ve been a lot faster. But, that’s linear athleticism only. Devin White ran a 4.42. Linear athleticism *matters* to be clear. If you get the ball on a slant and have nothing but daylight, you could house it. But getting open matters more. The same way that processing post-snap matters more for a LB than running a 4.4. That 4.4 looks like a 6.4 when you’re lost.

When I’m looking at a WR like EE, I’m looking at release, ability to decelerate, accelerate, suddenness. I think he’s really smart as a player, and is good at these listed things. Just not elite. And they’re physical traits. Some guys have it, some don’t. There’s probably a reason he didn’t run the 3 cone drill but did everything else.

EE ran a 4.45 in the 40 and had a 38-inch vertical. Why didn’t he 3 cone?

Because it’s a totally different thing and his numbers wouldn’t look good.

For reference, Julian Edelman had a 6.62 second 3 cone. Which is considered elite+.

[Phantom]

Uh?

He will be fine here

[Cheb]

He wasn’t under the radar for NFL teams.

I disagree with that tweeter though. In one tweet he calls EE “the highest floor in the draft” and in another says “the ceiling is not limited.”

If both of these things were true, he would’ve been a sure-fire top 5 pick.

I like the player. My snap reaction upon drafting him was happiness. He’s a craft geek, proven producer, leader, and an adequate athlete by NFL WR standards.

It doesn’t take a genius to watch the film and see there’s a clear ceiling here. He has sure, quiet hands. He’s great at reading defenses pre and post snap, and finding soft spots in the zone. Very valuable in the modern shell defense NFL. 3rd/slot WRs are on the field like 85%+ of the time in the modern NFL. So the snaps are there. But so are the free releases, mismatches vs. LB/S, rubs/picks.

Simultaneously, the most valuable WRs are the boundary WRs who draw and beat the toughest coverage. EE didn’t really have a chance to do that, with Ohio State’s wide receiver room. Not to say he COULDN’T. But it’s a different animal.

Agreed with all the above, especially the bold.

If Mike Evans is isolated on the backside on a 3x1 formation all by himself, the nearest safety is coming over to help the corner covering Mike. I would bet money on it. It's defensive suicide to not do that. The same thing happens when Ja'Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill, or any of those other top guys are iso'd in the same way. They force defenses to play them a certain way, because doing otherwise will let that Pro Bowler burn you.

If Emeka Egbuka is isolated on the backside in a 3x1 all by himself, is he drawing safety help consistently? We don't know. I don't see the physical traits for him to Moss dudes on the regular or just fly by them like Tyreek, but that's not a crime. There's plenty of ways to get open, he showed many of them at Ohio State, and reportedly he's quite good thus far.

I ain't about to crown him before he ever takes the field. I'm hopeful... but we will see how he shakes out.

[Doctor]

The NFL is changing. You don't need to be a dominant X to dominate. Look at Kupp and Puka.

While there will always be a place for the DK Metcalfs of the league, their status as the gold standard has come heavily under fire in recent years.

[CannonFire]

I see no reason why he can't put up numbers like Keenan Allen. Allen's average game was 9.3 targets, 6.3 receptions, 73 yards, .43 TD's. If Egbuka can stay healthy, unlike Allen, he should be able to post a 158 target, 108 catch, 1245 yard, 7 TD season as a regular starter. The issue would be volume, he can't control that, but I believe he has the skillset to accomplish that.

[Sdbucs]

The NFL is changing. You don't need to be a dominant X to dominate. Look at Kupp and Puka.

While there will always be a place for the DK Metcalfs of the league, their status as the gold standard has come heavily under fire in recent years.

Someone on reddit was arguing with me that Chris Godwin was our WR1 because he puts up more fantasy points.

To me, WR1 = X WR. Like Mike Evans is 100% our WR1.... right?

[CannonFire]

The NFL is changing. You don't need to be a dominant X to dominate. Look at Kupp and Puka.

While there will always be a place for the DK Metcalfs of the league, their status as the gold standard has come heavily under fire in recent years.

Someone on reddit was arguing with me that Chris Godwin was our WR1 because he puts up more fantasy points.

To me, WR1 = X WR. Like Mike Evans is 100% our WR1.... right?

I don't think I've ever seen what the criteria is for who a #1, #2, #3, etc WR is. I always assumed people used those titles based on target share... reason being, it was likely tied to whether that player was the first, second, third, etc, read by the QB. We all know that not every play is designed for the same guy to the first read on every play, but I'd expect that the majority of plays... at least, used to be, back in the day.