Rapid Reactions Week 10 29-19 Loss

[Tnbandwagoner]

On the PI in the endzone (Delaney?), seemed to me it was as the ball whizzed 5 yards overhead.

Either "uncatchable" is no longer part of the rules, or that was a corrupt call. I was speechless when they made that call. And it made a big difference - without it we would have had a reasonable shot at holding them to a field goal.

[King Bootz]

Good news but Greg can miss me with the last part. The Bucs not putting Gronk or AB on IR was supposed to be signs that they'd be back in less than 3 weeks. But 2 months later.....

The fact that he came back last year gives me encouragement that he's a fast healer like Lavonte.

I'd think so at this stage. He's 5 years younger.

[Tnbandwagoner]

I see alot of fans mentioning we're playing too soft on defense, which I agree with fwiw. I'd guess Bowles is trying to protect his CBs out there b/c he has guys like Russ Cockrell and Dee Delaney.

The first TD the WFT scored was when we blitzed (Devin showed early on the hard count and Heinicke knew he had 1v1 on that post-corner route to Carter #1).

Just sayin, we don't have the CBs right now to play very aggressive.

Hopefully we can get CD3-SMB-Dean out there together again at some point this season. Not that it would guarantee anything, but it gives us the best chance playing the type of defense we did in the playoffs last season.

Because right now we're not beating anyone unless the Bucs offense puts up 30+ pts. Opposing defenses are starting to give us the KC/Mahomes treatment playing alot of 2-high shell which makes it tough to get big plays in the passing game, which in turn makes scoring alot of points tougher.

The road grader that turned the defense on last season just went down with a suspected knee injury, after having returned from an Achilles issue. Can't say the DB shortfall has been as much of a problem as losing Vita likely will be going forward.

The defense with Vea has not exactly looked like world-beaters. I'm not sure they could be much worse than they have thus far this season.

[BJJ34]

So this isn't a rapid reaction, but it is a reaction...

Is anyone else alarmed at all that our #1(#2 now in rankings) run defense could not stop the run at the end of that game?

Been a few weeks since we could actually stop the run, so no. No surprise here.

What's the issue though? From what I'm seeing with very little football knowledge is that they're gashing us up the middle at times. Barrett didn't help with his missed tackles on Sunday, but everyone here is saying Devin White played well... So if he played well... why did they run the ball so well? Lavonte seemed to be okay as well. We're used to stuffing the line and seeing no gain.. now they're getting 4-5, and setting up offenses more comfortably.


Methinks it's a problem with all the backend injuries and not being able to sell out in the run like they did last year.

Mclendon will be back with Vea out too, let's hope he still has any football left in him.

[King Bootz]

Been a few weeks since we could actually stop the run, so no. No surprise here.

What's the issue though? From what I'm seeing with very little football knowledge is that they're gashing us up the middle at times. Barrett didn't help with his missed tackles on Sunday, but everyone here is saying Devin White played well... So if he played well... why did they run the ball so well? Lavonte seemed to be okay as well. We're used to stuffing the line and seeing no gain.. now they're getting 4-5, and setting up offenses more comfortably.


Methinks it's a problem with all the backend injuries and not being able to sell out in the run like they did last year.

Mclendon will be back with Vea out too, let's hope he still has any football left in him.

Starts up front. We're old. Suh looks cooked. He's getting manhandled. Gholston has never been anything more than a JAG. Vea is great but he's not commanding a ton of double teams. JPP is giving up edge contain worse than he ever has. We're having to sell out against the run to stuff it.

McClendon is old and won't compensate for Vea being out. Hopefully everyone else does their part.

[BJJ34]

What's the issue though? From what I'm seeing with very little football knowledge is that they're gashing us up the middle at times. Barrett didn't help with his missed tackles on Sunday, but everyone here is saying Devin White played well... So if he played well... why did they run the ball so well? Lavonte seemed to be okay as well. We're used to stuffing the line and seeing no gain.. now they're getting 4-5, and setting up offenses more comfortably.


Methinks it's a problem with all the backend injuries and not being able to sell out in the run like they did last year.

Mclendon will be back with Vea out too, let's hope he still has any football left in him.

Starts up front. We're old. Suh looks cooked. He's getting manhandled. Gholston has never been anything more than a JAG. Vea is great but he's not commanding a ton of double teams. JPP is giving up edge contain worse than he ever has. We're having to sell out against the run to stuff it.

McClendon is old and won't compensate for Vea being out. Hopefully everyone else does their part.

You would think at this point, it would be addressed by scouting. Bringing in someone onto the Practice Squad. Stealing somebody someone has stashed somewhere? Bringing in people for competition.

It is especially alarming that coming off of a bye, we just get manhandled in the 4th quarter. The defense didn't make any splash plays, WFT didn't commit any major dumb penalties, Gibson looked fresh.

[King Bootz]

Starts up front. We're old. Suh looks cooked. He's getting manhandled. Gholston has never been anything more than a JAG. Vea is great but he's not commanding a ton of double teams. JPP is giving up edge contain worse than he ever has. We're having to sell out against the run to stuff it.

McClendon is old and won't compensate for Vea being out. Hopefully everyone else does their part.

You would think at this point, it would be addressed by scouting. Bringing in someone onto the Practice Squad. Stealing somebody someone has stashed somewhere? Bringing in people for competition.

It is especially alarming that coming off of a bye, we just get manhandled in the 4th quarter. The defense didn't make any splash plays, WFT didn't commit any major dumb penalties, Gibson looked fresh.

Time to address was in the spring. But the narrative/obsession was "WE JUST HAVE TO BRING EVERYONE BACK". Why the hell wouldn't you want to improve up front, get younger and fresher?

We have what we have right now. Gotta live and die with it.

[Cheb]

The coaches' film isn't yet up, should be up tomorrow. But I'm going to do a deep dive on what exactly went wrong on that final drive where WFT iced away the game in 19 plays and 10 minutes of gametime.

In watching the broadcast again, it wasn't any one thing or person. It was a group effort of suck across nearly 20 plays; not respecting Heinicke's movement skills, not getting off blocks, missed tackles, getting blown out of gaps, some technique issues. Mostly it seemed on the rewatch that Washington just out-executed our defense. But the final play was a bit of a doozy. Don't need coaches' film for that one; the broadcast had some good angles.

What I can say is that the final TD was definitely on Devin White. The Redskins were in 11 personnel, shotgun with a sidecar right, trips right, tight left. Most of the secondary was over on the offensive right to respond to the formation. Prior to the snap, both JPP (who was that right end) and Jordan Whitehead both realized that we had a numbers disadvantage behind JPP. JPP was yelling at the backers to cover the threat. Whitehead ended up moving Devin White over behind JPP as the contain man on that side, like we gotta respect this trips threat on the right, so the secondary is mostly over there, you're the contain man dude, don't fuck it up. On the snap, Devin White drifts to the middle of the formation (not his job anymore) and was trying to play peekaboo behind the pile (his favorite game, but DEFINITELY not his job anymore). That's okay if you're responsible for the middle, but it sure as shit isn't if you have outside contain. Forgetting that job, Devin White got lost in the trash in the middle of the formation. LVD had a better read on the ball and was able to flow to the playside but wasn't able to beat the WFT runner to the end zone; one wouldn't expect it to, outside contain on that rep and against that playcall isn't his job. As the Washington runner was celebrating, you could see LVD turn around, stare right at Devin White, and start yelling. I imagine it went something like "you had contain, what the fuck?"

And that playcall should not have taken Devin White by surprise. The most common runs you'll see in a shotgun with a back next to him in a "sidecar" look is action to the opposite side of the formation, either a zone concept or pulling guard (teams usually prefer one or the other, but that's usually figured out with scouting). Anyways, if it's sidecar right and you're on the offensive left, expect a run in your direction. Devin White should have known that, and when you see run action, you have to fast-flow to your defensive responsibility on the playside. He didn't, and it led directly to the score.

So yeah. That's not great.

[The Outsider]

White hasn't really struck me as the most cerebral player on our defense.

[13F11B]

The defense looked like dog shit. The offense looked like lukewarm diarrhea.

[King Bootz]

What a waste

[mdb1958]

On the PI in the endzone (Delaney?), seemed to me it was as the ball whizzed 5 yards overhead.

Either "uncatchable" is no longer part of the rules, or that was a corrupt call. I was speechless when they made that call. And it made a big difference - without it we would have had a reasonable shot at holding them to a field goal.

My key word was overhead. He wanted to throw to that guy but played it safe and threw it 15 feet over their heads. So my point was, was Delaney a quarter second early of the pass going fifteen feet over their head?

I would love to see a slow mo of that play.

[Kress]

White hasn't really struck me as the most cerebral player on our defense.

It does seem like he plays more on intuition and athleticism than anything else.

[Nano]

What a waste

Considering that Coach Sherman is probably better than Player Sherman at this point. I'm not sure it's a bad thing

[King Bootz]

What a waste

Considering that Coach Sherman is probably better than Player Sherman at this point. I'm not sure it's a bad thing

This signing is on the lines of LeSean McCoy last year.

[mdb1958]

DL 93 N.Suh
NT 50 V.Vea
OLB 90 J.Pierre-Paul
ILB 45 D.White
ILB 54 L.David
OLB 58 S.Barrett
CB 35 J.Dean
CB 30 D.Delaney
S 32 M.Edwards
S 31 A.Winfield
S 33 J.Whitehead

This is how we are starting our games. I have seen 3,4,5, and more rush from this. Gholston, Tryon, and Nelson are getting limited snaps in order to have a 5 man backfield that I guess are not very good at it. Pretty sure I saw 2 DL's and 2 OLB's get stalemated more than 7 seconds a few times.

[mdb1958]

On third down we lose way too often. So yeah if I'm Bruce and Todd I'm scratching my head.

[King Bootz]

DL 93 N.Suh
NT 50 V.Vea
OLB 90 J.Pierre-Paul
ILB 45 D.White
ILB 54 L.David
OLB 58 S.Barrett
CB 35 J.Dean
CB 30 D.Delaney
S 32 M.Edwards
S 31 A.Winfield
S 33 J.Whitehead

This is how we are starting our games. I have seen 3,4,5, and more rush from this. Gholston, Tryon, and Nelson are getting limited snaps in order to have a 5 man backfield that I guess are not very good at it. Pretty sure I saw 2 DL's and 2 OLB's get stalemated more than 7 seconds a few times.

Coming from you it very well could be hyperbole. But no you did not see anyone get stalemated for more than 7 seconds ever.

[mdb1958]

We do not have a working base defense that can beat (any shape o-lines) in three seconds.

[mdb1958]

Top that off with (yes they are allowing us to be held) and there is why we stink.

[mdb1958]

DL 93 N.Suh
NT 50 V.Vea
OLB 90 J.Pierre-Paul
ILB 45 D.White
ILB 54 L.David
OLB 58 S.Barrett
CB 35 J.Dean
CB 30 D.Delaney
S 32 M.Edwards
S 31 A.Winfield
S 33 J.Whitehead

This is how we are starting our games. I have seen 3,4,5, and more rush from this. Gholston, Tryon, and Nelson are getting limited snaps in order to have a 5 man backfield that I guess are not very good at it. Pretty sure I saw 2 DL's and 2 OLB's get stalemated more than 7 seconds a few times.

Coming from you it very well could be hyperbole. But no you did not see anyone get stalemated for more than 7 seconds ever.

It's when the magical defensive holding flag is thrown after the QB throws the ball away to avoid the sack.

It's long enough where you have time to think - damn does any other defense get blocked this long.

[Snake]

White converted from RB to LB in college. He’s a 99.99% percentile NFL athlete but he’s lacking in many areas and it’s hard to imagine those problems ever being fixed.

[Dread]

The coaches' film isn't yet up, should be up tomorrow. But I'm going to do a deep dive on what exactly went wrong on that final drive where WFT iced away the game in 19 plays and 10 minutes of gametime.

In watching the broadcast again, it wasn't any one thing or person. It was a group effort of suck across nearly 20 plays; not respecting Heinicke's movement skills, not getting off blocks, missed tackles, getting blown out of gaps, some technique issues. Mostly it seemed on the rewatch that Washington just out-executed our defense. But the final play was a bit of a doozy. Don't need coaches' film for that one; the broadcast had some good angles.

What I can say is that the final TD was definitely on Devin White. The Redskins were in 11 personnel, shotgun with a sidecar right, trips right, tight left. Most of the secondary was over on the offensive right to respond to the formation. Prior to the snap, both JPP (who was that right end) and Jordan Whitehead both realized that we had a numbers disadvantage behind JPP. JPP was yelling at the backers to cover the threat. Whitehead ended up moving Devin White over behind JPP as the contain man on that side, like we gotta respect this trips threat on the right, so the secondary is mostly over there, you're the contain man dude, don't fuck it up. On the snap, Devin White drifts to the middle of the formation (not his job anymore) and was trying to play peekaboo behind the pile (his favorite game, but DEFINITELY not his job anymore). That's okay if you're responsible for the middle, but it sure as shit isn't if you have outside contain. Forgetting that job, Devin White got lost in the trash in the middle of the formation. LVD had a better read on the ball and was able to flow to the playside but wasn't able to beat the WFT runner to the end zone; one wouldn't expect it to, outside contain on that rep and against that playcall isn't his job. As the Washington runner was celebrating, you could see LVD turn around, stare right at Devin White, and start yelling. I imagine it went something like "you had contain, what the fuck?"

And that playcall should not have taken Devin White by surprise. The most common runs you'll see in a shotgun with a back next to him in a "sidecar" look is action to the opposite side of the formation, either a zone concept or pulling guard (teams usually prefer one or the other, but that's usually figured out with scouting). Anyways, if it's sidecar right and you're on the offensive left, expect a run in your direction. Devin White should have known that, and when you see run action, you have to fast-flow to your defensive responsibility on the playside. He didn't, and it led directly to the score.

So yeah. That's not great.

Yuo, you could see JPP motion with his arm pre-snap for someone to cover his outside. Not sure what Devin was thinking on that play. He had know JPP was crashing down on short yardage and like you stated with that formation you almost have to expect the run going that way.

I know when we play the Saints or any screen heavy team, when they are in shotgun whatever side the the RB is on the screen (or run play) goes to the opposite.

If I know as a casual observer the players and coaches know also, which means Devin White had brain fart.

[Dread]

White converted from RB to LB in college. He’s a 99.99% percentile NFL athlete but he’s lacking in many areas and it’s hard to imagine those problems ever being fixed.

What problems and why aren't they fixable?

[Selmon Rules]

I'll say it over and over, fans blame coaching because they truly don't know how to process what's going on during the game. Want proof? Half of the board yesterday were saying we blitzed too much, the other half were saying we played Mike Smith soft. Those are 2 completely different things. So which is it?

What did I see on defense? Nothing terrible. Washington played better. They did a great job executing. If there were more true football fans they would've been able to appreciate the way Washington played yesterday. Their receivers caught a lot of contested catches, did well hanging on to the ball for the most part. Our defense wasn't soft. We forced Heinicke to get rid of the ball fast.

Just because you lose doesn't mean you did something wrong as a team. It's not something fans will understand but I've been saying it for years. The other team is trying to win too. And yesterday Washington won.

Both can be true, blitzing up front and playing off (soft) on the back end with corners giving too much cushion....

Bad combination

[King Bootz]

I'll say it over and over, fans blame coaching because they truly don't know how to process what's going on during the game. Want proof? Half of the board yesterday were saying we blitzed too much, the other half were saying we played Mike Smith soft. Those are 2 completely different things. So which is it?

What did I see on defense? Nothing terrible. Washington played better. They did a great job executing. If there were more true football fans they would've been able to appreciate the way Washington played yesterday. Their receivers caught a lot of contested catches, did well hanging on to the ball for the most part. Our defense wasn't soft. We forced Heinicke to get rid of the ball fast.

Just because you lose doesn't mean you did something wrong as a team. It's not something fans will understand but I've been saying it for years. The other team is trying to win too. And yesterday Washington won.

Both can be true, blitzing up front and playing off (soft) on the back end with corners giving too much cushion....

Bad combination

It's simply not true though. A concept where we blitz and play zone?!?! Are you kidding me?

Edit: And we obviously aren't employing zone blitzes against WFT.

[Dread]

Both can be true, blitzing up front and playing off (soft) on the back end with corners giving too much cushion....

Bad combination

It's simply not true though. A concept where we blitz and play zone?!?! Are you kidding me?

Edit: And we obviously aren't employing zone blitzes against WFT.

Why are people equating soft coverage with only zone defense? You know CBs play off-man and that can lead to providing too much cushion. Especially when they don't have a Safety over the top (like when we blitz).

[King Bootz]

It's simply not true though. A concept where we blitz and play zone?!?! Are you kidding me?

Edit: And we obviously aren't employing zone blitzes against WFT.

Why are people equating soft coverage with only zone defense? You know CBs play off-man and that can lead to providing too much cushion. Especially when they don't have a Safety over the top (like when we blitz).

Because that's not what happened yesterday. There were numerous contested catches, especially on that final drive. People seem to think that if the ball was caught it means we played soft. We didn't.

It would be more enjoyable if fans actually knew and understood nuances and concepts in football. Your eyes clearly aren't fast enough to diagnose what you see. We didn't play off much. Did we? Of course. But y'all act as if that's a crime. All teams play off. But not as much as people were complaining about yesterday.

[Jason Bourne]

Some high praise for Devin White from coach Arians ..
Maybe White just screwed up on last play trying to do too much ..


“If everybody played with a passion and energy that Devin played with, we wouldn’t have any problems,” he said.

“He should have been Player of the Week with the game that he just had and the way he played the game. We will use that as an example of everyone to play with.”

[mdb1958]

White converted from RB to LB in college. He’s a 99.99% percentile NFL athlete but he’s lacking in many areas and it’s hard to imagine those problems ever being fixed.

What problems and why aren't they fixable?

Well, he could be humble and realize he is nowhere near where he needs to be as a player.

He could be told to keep the stick pony tied to the rail until they end the possession.

If I was to make a play on the defense I'm going straight to the group saying we need another, one more, lets finish this. Looking at individuals saying we can do this.

[mdb1958]

Sometimes heart is more powerful than talent.

[Jason Bourne]

Sometimes heart is more powerful than talent.

Good thing he has both .

It seems Bruce Arians disagrees with some of you about Devin White

[mdb1958]

Sometimes heart is more powerful than talent.

Good thing he has both .

It seems Bruce Arians disagrees with some of you about Devin White

I don't disagree with Bruce for wanting to leave the parts of what I say out. He is choosing to lift up White as an example. That's fine he's the coach. My bottom line is everybody do your job and get off the field and don't forget to just keep getting better.

Celebrating to what in the end turns into a loss - is a bad look and not well thought out.

[mdb1958]

@Jason Bourne I can see you having a stick pony too!

[BJJ34]

Interesting notes:
Evans had as many touchdowns in the Chicago game as he did targets in this game.

He also has a 3 game TD streak going and 6 tds in his last 5. Still on pace for a thousand yards despite very low target totals for an elite receiver.

Antoine Winfield had a statistically good game.