The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

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CannonFire
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Four Verticals wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:23 pm
CannonFire wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:21 pm

You're not reading my posts. You're apparently stopping at a point and then replying or just assuming my point. I never said I didn't like him.
Other than a post earlier in this thread:
Honestly, I'm utterly shocked that I'm one of a few people who don't like him
I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Grahamburn »

CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am
Four Verticals wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:23 pm

Other than a post earlier in this thread:

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
You keep saying this, but at that price there's no way he signs here, so if your stance is low-ball him so he leaves then you might as well just say you wouldn't have offered anything at all.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Grahamburn wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:47 am
CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
You keep saying this, but at that price there's no way he signs here, so if your stance is low-ball him so he leaves then you might as well just say you wouldn't have offered anything at all.
Then he can go! He's not that good/valuable. I've said this numerous times too. I'm not low balling him so he leaves, I'm offering him a deal that I think he's worth. He's replaceable by someone in the draft. Heck, for all the crap some of you have been slinging about Mayfield's numbers (as if they're something great for him), freaking Gardner Minshew put up the same darn metrics with lesser talent, and he got $12.5M AAV. Go give him $15M, I'm sure he'd have jumped at that! Then, go use an early draft pick on a QB and then money you saved by not giving it to Mayfield, go get another FA or two.

It's amazing how some of you think that using a 1st or 2nd rd pick on a QB won't improve the team, but a 1st or 2nd rd OL will. Seriously? You guys are looking to replace a rookie or 2nd year player on our OLine, with an incoming rookie. Clearly, the prior ones didn't work out, but you're willing to put faith in the new. That's ok, right? But me putting faith in a rookie QB who could be a franchise QB, that's insane, right?

Here's the long and short of what I felt the Bucs should've done, and I'll stop being a "broken record".

They should've given Mayfield a 3 yr / $45M deal, Y1 guaranteed. If he didn't like it, bring in someone else and draft a QB. From everything I've read, it looks clear to me that at least 1 or 2 QB's will be available at #26. Then, instead of investing that $50M they're guaranteeing Mayfield, go invest it in the OL... examples:

C - Lloyd Cushenberry signed a 4 yr / $50M (12.5 AAV), deal.
G - Damien Lewis (was ranked in the top third of guards last year), signed a 4 yr / $53M (13.25 AAV), deal.

So, instead of spending $50M on Mayfield over the next 2 seasons, they could've brought in two of the highest rated FA OL's, for $51.5M over that same time frame. That brings in 2 plug-n-play guys who you knew would be upgrades and no one would have to hope we hit with 2 rookies.

tldr equation... Rookie + 2 FA OL's >>> Mayfield + 2 rookie OL's.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Four Verticals »

And the circle begins again.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Four Verticals »

CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am
Four Verticals wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:23 pm

Other than a post earlier in this thread:

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Obsolete »

Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:30 pm
CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
I dont want to fight Cannons battles here but what it sounds like hes say is,

Lets say you like hambugers but for whatever reason the price of a hamburger jumped up to $30 a burger. Most people would stop buying burgers then.

It has nothing to do with not liking the burger but at that price, that burger is now competing with steak and for most people, steak is always going to win out.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:30 pm
CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
So by this definition, people who agree with the signing "love" Mayfield? They think he's "great"? Just want to make sure we're all covered under your definition.
Last edited by CannonFire on Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Obsolete wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:38 pm
Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:30 pm

Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
I dont want to fight Cannons battles here but what it sounds like hes say is,

Lets say you like hambugers but for whatever reason the price of a hamburger jumped up to $30 a burger. Most people would stop buying burgers then.

It has nothing to do with not liking the burger but at that price, that burger is now competing with steak and for most people, steak is always going to win out.
Yeah, not really all that hard, is it?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:27 pm And the circle begins again.
Again, it looks like your issue should be with the other guy. Just sayin'.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Primeminister »

Obsolete wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:38 pm
Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:30 pm

Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
I dont want to fight Cannons battles here but what it sounds like hes say is,

Lets say you like hambugers but for whatever reason the price of a hamburger jumped up to $30 a burger. Most people would stop buying burgers then.

It has nothing to do with not liking the burger but at that price, that burger is now competing with steak and for most people, steak is always going to win out.
That’s how I read it. To add to the analogy it would then follow that even if the market rate on burgers was $30 Cannon would say “While I don’t mind a good burger that price is too steep. I can use that money to get a meal I think more worthy of $30”.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Sdbucs »

This team will not win anything unless we find another weapon on offense or add some serious players to our defense.

Both sides of the ball have only gotten worse since Brady left.

We have 2 good WRs a mid QB, and a mid/low RB. A letter grade for that offense would be B-
We have a good IDL, good safety duo... and that's about it. A letter grade for that defense would be C+

We don't have a pass rush, no offensive line, no TE... and unfortunately we decided to sign Baker Mayfield last season instead of using this draft as a reloading opportunity.

If we had just ridden Trask we'd either be a. In the same spot but with money for free agents and a QBOTF in Trask, or b. In a better draft position picking a hopeful QBOTF. Instead, we're in this layover year where we won't win anything but will go 8-9 or similar, and picking from the bottom of the draft talent.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by GreatTimes »

SDbucs wrote "We have a good IDL, good safety duo... and that's about it. A letter grade for that defense would be C+"

The Bucs defense ranked #5 in scoring against last season. Only allowed 19.2 points per game. That is better than a C+. The Bucs would have lost a lot more games last season if the Bucs defense was only a C+.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Sdbucs »

GreatTimes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:11 pm SDbucs wrote "We have a good IDL, good safety duo... and that's about it. A letter grade for that defense would be C+"

The Bucs defense ranked #5 in scoring against last season. Only allowed 19.2 points per game. That is better than a C+. The Bucs would have lost a lot more games last season if the Bucs defense was only a C+.
PFF has us at #23 DEF and we also played a bunch of the lowest scoring teams last season. Since that time we've lost players and gained none in return. We went from a B, B- def to a C+ def this offseason, pending our draft
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Bootz »

Sdbucs wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:33 pm
GreatTimes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:11 pm SDbucs wrote "We have a good IDL, good safety duo... and that's about it. A letter grade for that defense would be C+"

The Bucs defense ranked #5 in scoring against last season. Only allowed 19.2 points per game. That is better than a C+. The Bucs would have lost a lot more games last season if the Bucs defense was only a C+.
PFF has us at #23 DEF and we also played a bunch of the lowest scoring teams last season. Since that time we've lost players and gained none in return. We went from a B, B- def to a C+ def this offseason, pending our draft
We did add Jordan Whitehead...But I get your point.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by GreatTimes »

A lot of different analysts use different metrics to rank how good or bad a team is. But the most important metric for a teams defense is how many points the defense allowed. The Bucs ranked at #5 in that category.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Cheb »

GreatTimes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:11 pm SDbucs wrote "We have a good IDL, good safety duo... and that's about it. A letter grade for that defense would be C+"

The Bucs defense ranked #5 in scoring against last season. Only allowed 19.2 points per game. That is better than a C+. The Bucs would have lost a lot more games last season if the Bucs defense was only a C+.
Seconded.

We have talent throughout the defense. Kancey and Diaby did great on the line as rookies, Vita will Vea, LVD is an ageless wonder, Winfield is an All-Pro, and Zyon would have my vote for most improved defensive player. We need depth and youth, certainly, but that will be addressed in the draft I am sure, which is a little over 3 weeks away.

Saying all that is a C+? Dude.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Doctor »

Four Verticals wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:30 pm
CannonFire wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 am

I'm referring to the signing. Meaning, I don't like him at that cost. Jeez. Your post does prove my point of the one you quoted by the way. If I'm a broken record (as you stated above), how come you missed all of my posts where I'm saying I'm ok with giving him a $15M AAV for 3 years with only Y1 guaranteed?
Why is it difficult to understand that what you want to pay the guy means you don't like him....your words?
Right?

"I don't get why people think I don't like him. I like him! I was all for signing him for $5 and a cup of piss!"

Your rant afterwards about how "he can then walk cause he ain't that good!" just further solidifies it.

Miss us with your "I don't get why people think I genuinely don't like this bad player" bs.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Doctor »

Sdbucs wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:43 pm
Both sides of the ball have only gotten worse since Brady left.
I'm very curious to hear your supporting arguments for this claim.

Especially given our PPG and offensive TDs went up, while defensively we allowed fewer of both. While also getting more sacks and drastically improving our turnover ratio.

So when you say "Both sides of the ball have only gotten worse since Brady left", just what are you taking about?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Lordnlkon »

CannonFire wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:24 pm
13F11B wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:08 am

I think CannonFire is concerned that Mayfield has a higher than 50% chance to have a bad year (historically, speaking that is what his stats say) and a 0% chance of being the next Rich Gannon.
That's around where I'm at. I mean, he doesn't have to have a "bad year". I think if he has the stat line next year (which would be 4 years of similar numbers... out of 6), we have a losing record because our schedule looks to be harder. I think our ceiling at that point is 7 wins. In reference to Gannon, that's exactly what I'm saying.

And if you are wrong and he has a good year, we win the division again and he improves, will you admit you are wrong? I’m not saying Bakers the answer but I think he more than earned the contract we gave him and a chance to do it again. We paid him as a middle of the road QB, with not a ton of guaranteed money(in today’s QB market). We were never getting him at 15 million a year. And any QB we could get for that price, we wouldn’t want.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Four Verticals »

Primeminister wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:43 pm
Obsolete wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:38 pm

I dont want to fight Cannons battles here but what it sounds like hes say is,

Lets say you like hambugers but for whatever reason the price of a hamburger jumped up to $30 a burger. Most people would stop buying burgers then.

It has nothing to do with not liking the burger but at that price, that burger is now competing with steak and for most people, steak is always going to win out.
That’s how I read it. To add to the analogy it would then follow that even if the market rate on burgers was $30 Cannon would say “While I don’t mind a good burger that price is too steep. I can use that money to get a meal I think more worthy of $30”.
The problem is with the opinion presented he doesn't want to pay Mayfield what is starter's money in the NFL. Other than those on rookie deals, he's still one of the lowest on the salary scale for the position and one of those guys received a contract a couple of years ago which appears to be basis for Mayfield's contract this year. Essentially Cannonfire is saying he doesn't want him as the starter because the numbers he attempted to throw out there were not going to get him signed.

To me I'd say that was not liking a player from a football angle......and I think he knows that.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Grahamburn »

GreatTimes wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:14 pm A lot of different analysts use different metrics to rank how good or bad a team is. But the most important metric for a teams defense is how many points the defense allowed. The Bucs ranked at #5 in that category.
I don’t disagree with this. However, giving your opportunity to possess the ball more and with a shorter field is important too.

We were one of the worst teams in the league against the pass and played several bad offenses over the course of the year.

The good ones eat us up.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Babeinbucland »

Lordnlkon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:07 pm
CannonFire wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:24 pm

That's around where I'm at. I mean, he doesn't have to have a "bad year". I think if he has the stat line next year (which would be 4 years of similar numbers... out of 6), we have a losing record because our schedule looks to be harder. I think our ceiling at that point is 7 wins. In reference to Gannon, that's exactly what I'm saying.

And if you are wrong and he has a good year, we win the division again and he improves, will you admit you are wrong? I’m not saying Bakers the answer but I think he more than earned the contract we gave him and a chance to do it again. We paid him as a middle of the road QB, with not a ton of guaranteed money(in today’s QB market). We were never getting him at 15 million a year. And any QB we could get for that price, we wouldn’t want.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

Lordnlkon wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:07 pm
CannonFire wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:24 pm

That's around where I'm at. I mean, he doesn't have to have a "bad year". I think if he has the stat line next year (which would be 4 years of similar numbers... out of 6), we have a losing record because our schedule looks to be harder. I think our ceiling at that point is 7 wins. In reference to Gannon, that's exactly what I'm saying.

And if you are wrong and he has a good year, we win the division again and he improves, will you admit you are wrong? I’m not saying Bakers the answer but I think he more than earned the contract we gave him and a chance to do it again. We paid him as a middle of the road QB, with not a ton of guaranteed money(in today’s QB market). We were never getting him at 15 million a year. And any QB we could get for that price, we wouldn’t want.
LOL, I've answered this question multiple times already.
I'll answer it similarly to the same way, and let's see if your response is just as weak as @Babeinbucland's.

Baker Mayfield has been the same mediocre to below average QB his whole career (5 seasons). So I'm going to say that in order for me to admit I'm wrong about him, he will need to have 6 seasons as you're describing. Why do I say that? Because at least 6 seasons of being mediocre to below average is apparently what it'll take for you, to see that I'm right. Fair?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by BucsNBills »

So I guess pointlessly yapping about Baker Mayfield will be the state of the board until further notice????
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by CannonFire »

BucsNBills wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:53 am So I guess pointlessly yapping about Baker Mayfield will be the state of the board until further notice????
I've deflected a few posts from here to the Mayfield thread, but more keep coming back. I'm done discussing him here though, you are correct, it doesn't need to be here as well.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Doctor »

BucsNBills wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:53 am So I guess pointlessly yapping about Baker Mayfield will be the state of the board until further notice????
Of course.

Pretty much every franchise has a has a contigent of "we'll never win with this guy ever" fans. Even Allen and Lamar have their haters. And even if you take them all the way to a SB and lose like Cam, the haters will lean back and claim victory saying "see, told you we'd never win with him" as if there aren't hundreds of other variables that go into a championship season. Or like he didn't give them one of their best windows ever.

And with every victory this never gonna win loser of a QB earns they think it takes us further from a "real" QB.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Grahamburn »

The Baker era has already been better than anything we ever had with our savior Jameis.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Doctor »

"Yeah, but Jameis wasn't real communism..."
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Grahamburn »

CannonFire wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:01 am
BucsNBills wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:53 am So I guess pointlessly yapping about Baker Mayfield will be the state of the board until further notice????
I've deflected a few posts from here to the Mayfield thread, but more keep coming back. I'm done discussing him here though, you are correct, it doesn't need to be here as well.
BAKER FUCKING MAYFIELD IS OUR QB!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! :ricflair:
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Bootz »

Meh

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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

Randy Gregory? That’s random as hell.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Kona »

Classic Licht. Filling as many holes before the draft as possible. Not saying it’ll be a good one
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Bootz »

Kona wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 pm Classic Licht. Filling as many holes before the draft as possible. Not saying it’ll be a good one
Honestly he might not even make the final 53. He's hasn't been even mediocre.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by kaimaru »

Bootz wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:32 pm
Kona wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 pm Classic Licht. Filling as many holes before the draft as possible. Not saying it’ll be a good one
Honestly he might not even make the final 53. He's hasn't been even mediocre.
He played in Dallas as a DE. We went to Denver as an OLB. He moved to a 4-3 LB in SF. Maybe Bowles likes that versatility as a backup. He also plays special teams so that helps him
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

Post by Onthebrink »

Grahamburn wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 2:23 pm The Baker era has already been better than anything we ever had with our savior Jameis.
Jamies went 9-7 one season which in case you don't know is a better record than 9-8.
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