Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Grahamburn]

Why? Why would we not want the rookie to have Mike Evans for his first three years? Evans just turn 30 this preseason. That's still a lot of prime juice in the tank.

I just think that’s a poor use of resources.

Also, I don’t expect Mike will sign here if they go with a rookie QB.

I think it’s moot anyway. Baker will be the QB in 2024 and Mike will be his favorite target.

[Doctor]

From your keyboard to Jason's ears.

[Noles1724]

Why? Why would we not want the rookie to have Mike Evans for his first three years? Evans just turn 30 this preseason. That's still a lot of prime juice in the tank.

Mike 3 more years is gonna be costly.. don't make sense to spend that money just to see him leave/retire just when the rookie should be primed (God willing).

If we're gonna be paying then it just makes sense to ensure that investment with a proven(to this point/ year)/ solid QB.

Not to mention, several other key players that have enough in the tank for solid play for 3 years.

ME will benefit more with the current pieces than hoping a rookie comes out the gate on fire.

[Doctor]

I agree. I want to bring back Baker. But even if we went a rookie route for whatever reason, I still don't see how we're better not having Mike. Even if the rookie takes awhile. The NFL moves in 2-3 year windows.

[acmillis]

I don’t want baker here next year unless it is his only year of guaranteed money and we draft a QBOTF in the 2024 draft. Baker should not be the long term answer for this team, he is not a good enough qb.

[Grahamburn]

I agree. I want to bring back Baker. But even if we went a rookie route for whatever reason, I still don't see how we're better not having Mike. Even if the rookie takes awhile. The NFL moves in 2-3 year windows.

I don't think any team is better without Mike Evans. But, that's not really the argument.

[Grahamburn]

I don’t want baker here next year unless it is his only year of guaranteed money and we draft a QBOTF in the 2024 draft. Baker should not be the long term answer for this team, he is not a good enough qb.

Geno got 3 years $75M with $40M guaranteed after leading his team to a regular season record of 9-8, winning Comeback Player of the Year, and getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs. The parallels don't end there as their passing statistics are eerily similar as well. With Baker being 5 years younger we can expect his agent would start there and expect to go up.

I like Joe Milton in round 3-4. If he makes it there.

[CannonFire]

Curious, what would it take to change your mind? A playoff win?

Or is your mind made up and Baker is forever ruined for his time with Cleveland and Carolina?

Winning 1 playoff game would put me open to giving him a shot to change my mind. A second playoff win will do it.

I think that's more open minded then you. Apparently you seem to think he's good, even though he's proven over 4+ years that he's below average... mediocre at best. So, how about you? Realizing that Baker isn't really all that good, he needs to be what, mediocre to below average for how many more years?

[acmillis]

I don’t want baker here next year unless it is his only year of guaranteed money and we draft a QBOTF in the 2024 draft. Baker should not be the long term answer for this team, he is not a good enough qb.

Geno got 3 years $75M with $40M guaranteed after leading his team to a regular season record of 9-8, winning Comeback Player of the Year, and getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs. The parallels don't end there as their passing statistics are eerily similar as well. With Baker being 5 years younger we can expect his agent would start there and expect to go up.

I like Joe Milton in round 3-4. If he makes it there.

So there’s your question:
Do you want Geno Smith 2.0 as your franchise qb?


…didn’t think so

[CannonFire]

Curious, what would it take to change your mind? A playoff win?

Or is your mind made up and Baker is forever ruined for his time with Cleveland and Carolina?

I’d like to see a list of the guys anyone would even take over him right now? There might be 7-8? Then I’m sure a few would rather roll the dice on a college kid? So maybe there’s 10 QBs on the entire planet that could objectively be better options?

Small number. I hope he’s our guy and he signs with us. We re-sign Evans. Build it.

Barring something unforeseen in these last couple games and a playoff embarrassment I think you were very right.

When you say "I’d like to see a list of the guys anyone would even take over him right now?", do you mean free agents/available QB's or QB's in the NFL/college, period?

[Grahamburn]

I’d like to see a list of the guys anyone would even take over him right now? There might be 7-8? Then I’m sure a few would rather roll the dice on a college kid? So maybe there’s 10 QBs on the entire planet that could objectively be better options?

Small number. I hope he’s our guy and he signs with us. We re-sign Evans. Build it.

Barring something unforeseen in these last couple games and a playoff embarrassment I think you were very right.

When you say "I’d like to see a list of the guys anyone would even take over him right now?", do you mean free agents/available QB's or QB's in the NFL/college, period?

I feel like you could make two lists. The QB's you'd take over him right now NFL/college, and then a list of QB's that will actually be available to the Bucs in 2024.

Baker is top 15 in the first one and right at the top in the second one.

[Grahamburn]

Geno got 3 years $75M with $40M guaranteed after leading his team to a regular season record of 9-8, winning Comeback Player of the Year, and getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs. The parallels don't end there as their passing statistics are eerily similar as well. With Baker being 5 years younger we can expect his agent would start there and expect to go up.

I like Joe Milton in round 3-4. If he makes it there.

So there’s your question:
Do you want Geno Smith 2.0 as your franchise qb?


…didn’t think so

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

[kaimaru]

Curious, what would it take to change your mind? A playoff win?

Or is your mind made up and Baker is forever ruined for his time with Cleveland and Carolina?

Winning 1 playoff game would put me open to giving him a shot to change my mind. A second playoff win will do it.

I think that's more open minded then you. Apparently you seem to think he's good, even though he's proven over 4+ years that he's below average... mediocre at best. So, how about you? Realizing that Baker isn't really all that good, he needs to be what, mediocre to below average for how many more years?

I would like to point this out from a poster on JBF:

Some interesting background on Mayfield:

Currently owns the following Browns records:
Consecutive seasons (4) of 3,000+ PASS YDS
Consecutive games (5) of 250+ PASS YDS
PASS YDS (14,125) in 1st 4 seasons
PASS TD (92) in 1st 4 seasons
2,500+ PASS YDS in each of 1st 4 seasons

NFL Records:
Only QB in NFL history with multiple career losses when scoring 42+ PTS on offense (has lost 3 such times)
1-3 career regular-season record when scoring 42+ PTS
Only such win was vs. Cowboys in 2020 Week 4 (final score 49-38)

On December 14, 2020, Baker thew an incomplete pass 70.5 yards in the air. Pro Football Focus says that was the longest throw they have ever seen. (PFF started tracking the NFL in 2006.)

According to Elias Sports Bureau, the Rams’ 98-yard TD drive was the longest go-ahead TD drive that began in the final 2 minutes over the last 45 seasons. He was on the team a total of 48 hours prior to the game.

Interesting factoid: Ben Roethlisberger had more wins in the Browns home stadium than any browns QB:
Baker Mayfield Surpasses Ben Roethlisberger as Winningest QB at FirstEnergy Stadium

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Mayfield is the first starting QB to face the Packers for three different teams in three consecutive years – home or away – since at least 1950. He also set a record for first opposing quarterback to get a perfect passer rating in that third game.

His completion rate of 85.7% was the second highest in a game in his career. Mayfield also set the Rams’ single-game completion percentage record, passing Kurt Warner (2000) and Case Keenum (2016). According to Elias Sports Bureau research, the Rams are only the fourth team since 1950 to score 50 points after entering that game averaging under 17 points (minimum of 10 games played prior to scoring 50).

Baker got offensive player of the week on 3 different teams in 4 years (Browns in 2020, Rams in 2022, Tampa in 2023).

Head coaching win/loss record for all coaches Baker played for (minus Sean McVay) 121-208. Bakers win/loss record 41-46.

This showed how much crap the teams he was on were:
Only QB in NFL history with multiple career losses when scoring 42+ PTS on offense (has lost 3 such times)
1-3 career regular-season record when scoring 42+ PTS
Only such win was vs. Cowboys in 2020 Week 4 (final score 49-38)

[acmillis]

So there’s your question:
Do you want Geno Smith 2.0 as your franchise qb?


…didn’t think so

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

[Grahamburn]

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

I don't know how you could be 100% sure of that. Chances are very few teams with a so called franchise QB will ever win a championship with that player.

[Doctor]

I suppose this is the Kirk Cousins arguement all over again.

I'm sorry but I don't see how you can hold a guy who JUST THIS SEASON got your team (maybe) 10 wins, a division title, 4k yards, 30:10 ratio.

I'll take that all day. Plus a love and knack for the clutch. Yessir. And I think OBP will too.

[Bootz]

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

You know how this works. Baker will be here next year and likely beyond

[Snake]

Statistics would have you believe that Baker Mayfield is a better player than Patrick Mahomes this season.

More than ever, I think context is extremely important for evaluating quarterback play.

Jared Goff is going to end with another season at a 3:1 touchdown to interception ratio. It’s almost a guarantee that he’s gonna let them down in the playoffs because he can’t elevate the team when they depend on him. That’s really the measurement of a great quarterback these days.

[CannonFire]

Winning 1 playoff game would put me open to giving him a shot to change my mind. A second playoff win will do it.

I think that's more open minded then you. Apparently you seem to think he's good, even though he's proven over 4+ years that he's below average... mediocre at best. So, how about you? Realizing that Baker isn't really all that good, he needs to be what, mediocre to below average for how many more years?

I would like to point this out from a poster on JBF:

Some interesting background on Mayfield:

Currently owns the following Browns records:
Consecutive seasons (4) of 3,000+ PASS YDS
Consecutive games (5) of 250+ PASS YDS
PASS YDS (14,125) in 1st 4 seasons
PASS TD (92) in 1st 4 seasons
2,500+ PASS YDS in each of 1st 4 seasons

NFL Records:
Only QB in NFL history with multiple career losses when scoring 42+ PTS on offense (has lost 3 such times)
1-3 career regular-season record when scoring 42+ PTS
Only such win was vs. Cowboys in 2020 Week 4 (final score 49-38)

On December 14, 2020, Baker thew an incomplete pass 70.5 yards in the air. Pro Football Focus says that was the longest throw they have ever seen. (PFF started tracking the NFL in 2006.)

According to Elias Sports Bureau, the Rams’ 98-yard TD drive was the longest go-ahead TD drive that began in the final 2 minutes over the last 45 seasons. He was on the team a total of 48 hours prior to the game.

Interesting factoid: Ben Roethlisberger had more wins in the Browns home stadium than any browns QB:
Baker Mayfield Surpasses Ben Roethlisberger as Winningest QB at FirstEnergy Stadium

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Mayfield is the first starting QB to face the Packers for three different teams in three consecutive years – home or away – since at least 1950. He also set a record for first opposing quarterback to get a perfect passer rating in that third game.

His completion rate of 85.7% was the second highest in a game in his career. Mayfield also set the Rams’ single-game completion percentage record, passing Kurt Warner (2000) and Case Keenum (2016). According to Elias Sports Bureau research, the Rams are only the fourth team since 1950 to score 50 points after entering that game averaging under 17 points (minimum of 10 games played prior to scoring 50).

Baker got offensive player of the week on 3 different teams in 4 years (Browns in 2020, Rams in 2022, Tampa in 2023).

Head coaching win/loss record for all coaches Baker played for (minus Sean McVay) 121-208. Bakers win/loss record 41-46.

This showed how much crap the teams he was on were:
Only QB in NFL history with multiple career losses when scoring 42+ PTS on offense (has lost 3 such times)
1-3 career regular-season record when scoring 42+ PTS
Only such win was vs. Cowboys in 2020 Week 4 (final score 49-38)

Winston leads the Bucs in virtually every category, does that make him a better option then?

The 47-42 loss to the Chargers, the Chargers had the 29th ranked defense in points against that year. They gave up over 34 points on 7 different occasions that year. In the second half, the Browns had the ball 5 times, punted on 3 occasions getting only 1 first down. One TD drive (5 plays for 75 yards where Chubb rushed for 61 of them... 52 coming on a TD run), the other was 2 plays 78 yards... Njoku took a 7 yard pass to the house (71 yards total, because the LB covering him, fell down). Mayfield didn't do much in the 2nd half.

The 47-42 loss to Baltimore - Mayfield had a great game... yippy. Trent Dilfer had great games. So?

The 45-42 loss to the Raiders, yeah... Mayfield turned the ball over 4 times. LOL

The 48-37 win against Pitt... Roethlisberger threw 4 Int's. LOL I'd like to think that if any team turned the ball over 5 times... 4 on their first 5 possessions, any team could score 48 points.

See, you're just throwing out "tidbits" that every QB has. So what?

[CannonFire]

When you say "I’d like to see a list of the guys anyone would even take over him right now?", do you mean free agents/available QB's or QB's in the NFL/college, period?

I feel like you could make two lists. The QB's you'd take over him right now NFL/college, and then a list of QB's that will actually be available to the Bucs in 2024.

Baker is top 15 in the first one and right at the top in the second one.

Taking a "guy" because he's the "best available" when there's slim pickings isn't promising. I believe Cousins and Wilson are FA's also, I'll take both over Mayfield. The ONLY thing that would push me towards favoring Mayfield is if Evans wants him back to re-sign. Otherwise, I'd rather pay Cousins.

My list of guys in the league that I'd rather have than him are (no particular order)...
Jalen Hurts
Jordan Love
Jared Goff
Kirk Cousins
Matt Stafford
Brock Purdy
Tua
Josh Allen
Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Trevor Lawarence
Bryce Young
Dereck Carr
Anthony Richardson
Deshaun Watson
CJ Stroud
Mahomes
Herbert


That's not including guys who I think are either debatable or higher risk/higher award...
Fields
Russell Wilson
Kyler Murray
Sam Howell

Not counting rookies, I think he's in the 20-25 range.

[CannonFire]

I suppose this is the Kirk Cousins arguement all over again.

I'm sorry but I don't see how you can hold a guy who JUST THIS SEASON got your team (maybe) 10 wins, a division title, 4k yards, 30:10 ratio.

I'll take that all day. Plus a love and knack for the clutch. Yessir. And I think OBP will too.

You've been institutionalized by our franchises lackluster QB's. LOL

[kaimaru]

I was checking things out, and we probably can pay all of them. Wirfs will be playing on the 5th year option, and these moves would open up plenty of cap to resign Evans, AWJ, and Baker if we want.

Cuts (post-June)
Shaquil Barrett $4,968,000
Carlton Davis $14,500,000
Ryan Jensen $1,210,000

Resigns
Mike Evans $7,387,000
Antoine Winfield, Jr. $1,189,200

That's a whopping $29+ million that just opened up on the cap. Remember if you resign players then the dead years will just stay as they were. I think we will be just fine, and I don't think anyone here would be upset at any of these moves

[Pirate Life]

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

Trent Dilfer won a ring going 12 of 25 for 153 yards in the Super Bowl. Your argument is not quite as solid as you think.

[kaimaru]

I would also like to note that we can save even more getting rid of Dean too, but I felt we would only get rid of one of them

[Bootz]

I was checking things out, and we probably can pay all of them. Wirfs will be playing on the 5th year option, and these moves would open up plenty of cap to resign Evans, AWJ, and Baker if we want.

Cuts (post-June)
Shaquil Barrett $4,968,000
Carlton Davis $14,500,000
Ryan Jensen $1,210,000

Resigns
Mike Evans $7,387,000
Antoine Winfield, Jr. $1,189,200

That's a whopping $29+ million that just opened up on the cap. Remember if you resign players then the dead years will just stay as they were. I think we will be just fine, and I don't think anyone here would be upset at any of these moves

The players with voided years on their deals have to be extended before the new league year starts or that dead money will remain in addition to whatever new deal they sign.

[kaimaru]

A 3 year deal is not something you give to someone you see as a franchise QB. Just because you may not view him as a franchise QB doesn't mean you can't win with him or don't want him to lead your team going forward.

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

You keep saying that, but only maybe Jones, Kraft, Lurie, and Lurie cares most about that. That's why we never used dead years on contracts. 90% only care about the stands being full and merch being sold. If we win double digits almost yearly they won't care about a Super Bowl because merch will sell and the fans will show up. That's why you are in the minority because most fans want wins and playoffs. They would love to win a Super Bowl, but they rather have a winning team to cheer for. So as much as you hate Mayfield, the Glazers are not caring about your version of winning

[kaimaru]

Statistics would have you believe that Baker Mayfield is a better player than Patrick Mahomes this season.

More than ever, I think context is extremely important for evaluating quarterback play.

Jared Goff is going to end with another season at a 3:1 touchdown to interception ratio. It’s almost a guarantee that he’s gonna let them down in the playoffs because he can’t elevate the team when they depend on him. That’s really the measurement of a great quarterback these days.

If that's the case, with small sample size, Mayfield balls out in the playoffs

[kaimaru]

I would like to point this out from a poster on JBF:



This showed how much crap the teams he was on were:
Only QB in NFL history with multiple career losses when scoring 42+ PTS on offense (has lost 3 such times)
1-3 career regular-season record when scoring 42+ PTS
Only such win was vs. Cowboys in 2020 Week 4 (final score 49-38)

Winston leads the Bucs in virtually every category, does that make him a better option then?

The 47-42 loss to the Chargers, the Chargers had the 29th ranked defense in points against that year. They gave up over 34 points on 7 different occasions that year. In the second half, the Browns had the ball 5 times, punted on 3 occasions getting only 1 first down. One TD drive (5 plays for 75 yards where Chubb rushed for 61 of them... 52 coming on a TD run), the other was 2 plays 78 yards... Njoku took a 7 yard pass to the house (71 yards total, because the LB covering him, fell down). Mayfield didn't do much in the 2nd half.

The 47-42 loss to Baltimore - Mayfield had a great game... yippy. Trent Dilfer had great games. So?

The 45-42 loss to the Raiders, yeah... Mayfield turned the ball over 4 times. LOL

The 48-37 win against Pitt... Roethlisberger threw 4 Int's. LOL I'd like to think that if any team turned the ball over 5 times... 4 on their first 5 possessions, any team could score 48 points.

See, you're just throwing out "tidbits" that every QB has. So what?

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and as Matthew Berry says you can make someone look like the second coming of Mahommes or Chad Hutchinson. There are 3 stats that says Mayfield is a bottom 16 QB: Comp%, Sacks, and TTT. All his other stats other than QBR (13th) including QB rating all shows him top 10. To me that's decent QB and he had a few bad games and a few great games. You and two others clearly don't agree, but every QB has bad games

[kaimaru]

I feel like you could make two lists. The QB's you'd take over him right now NFL/college, and then a list of QB's that will actually be available to the Bucs in 2024.

Baker is top 15 in the first one and right at the top in the second one.

Taking a "guy" because he's the "best available" when there's slim pickings isn't promising. I believe Cousins and Wilson are FA's also, I'll take both over Mayfield. The ONLY thing that would push me towards favoring Mayfield is if Evans wants him back to re-sign. Otherwise, I'd rather pay Cousins.

My list of guys in the league that I'd rather have than him are (no particular order)...
Jalen Hurts
Jordan Love
Jared Goff
Kirk Cousins
Matt Stafford
Brock Purdy
Tua
Josh Allen
Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Trevor Lawarence
Bryce Young
Dereck Carr
Anthony Richardson
Deshaun Watson
CJ Stroud
Mahomes
Herbert


That's not including guys who I think are either debatable or higher risk/higher award...
Fields
Russell Wilson
Kyler Murray
Sam Howell

Not counting rookies, I think he's in the 20-25 range.

LOL, you named unknowns (why not put Trask since you are just throwing names) and clearly system QBs as well who would NOT work in this offense

[kaimaru]

Win what though? That’s my point. We’re not winning a ring with Mayfield at any point in time…ever

Trent Dilfer won a ring going 12 of 25 for 153 yards in the Super Bowl. Your argument is not quite as solid as you think.

He only won anything because of one of the best defenses out there. They could have Ray Lewis doing double duty as QB and won

[kaimaru]

I was checking things out, and we probably can pay all of them. Wirfs will be playing on the 5th year option, and these moves would open up plenty of cap to resign Evans, AWJ, and Baker if we want.

Cuts (post-June)
Shaquil Barrett $4,968,000
Carlton Davis $14,500,000
Ryan Jensen $1,210,000

Resigns
Mike Evans $7,387,000
Antoine Winfield, Jr. $1,189,200

That's a whopping $29+ million that just opened up on the cap. Remember if you resign players then the dead years will just stay as they were. I think we will be just fine, and I don't think anyone here would be upset at any of these moves

The players with voided years on their deals have to be extended before the new league year starts or that dead money will remain in addition to whatever new deal they sign.

We have until March 30th and assuming we show up in the playoffs, I have belief they would try to extend Evans after the year he has had and so they can tag AWJ is they can't reach an agreement

[Snake]

Right. Tom Brady and the Patriots won 13-3 in 2019 over the Rams. Brady threw for 262 yards and a pick.

Sometimes your team can just be so good on that SB Sunday that it really doesn’t matter what the quarterback does. The same largely applied the following season when the Buccaneers dismantled the Chiefs.

But more often than not, your quarterback is going to need to step up in the playoffs. Late in games. Demonstrate some heroics. To at least get you there… let alone win it all.

[BucsNBills]

What if Mayfield is actually really good but got truly fucked over at the start of his career...

[Grahamburn]

I feel like you could make two lists. The QB's you'd take over him right now NFL/college, and then a list of QB's that will actually be available to the Bucs in 2024.

Baker is top 15 in the first one and right at the top in the second one.

Taking a "guy" because he's the "best available" when there's slim pickings isn't promising. I believe Cousins and Wilson are FA's also, I'll take both over Mayfield. The ONLY thing that would push me towards favoring Mayfield is if Evans wants him back to re-sign. Otherwise, I'd rather pay Cousins.

My list of guys in the league that I'd rather have than him are (no particular order)...
Jalen Hurts
Jordan Love
Jared Goff
Kirk Cousins
Matt Stafford
Brock Purdy
Tua
Josh Allen
Aaron Rodgers
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Trevor Lawarence
Bryce Young
Dereck Carr
Anthony Richardson
Deshaun Watson
CJ Stroud
Mahomes
Herbert


That's not including guys who I think are either debatable or higher risk/higher award...
Fields
Russell Wilson
Kyler Murray
Sam Howell

Not counting rookies, I think he's in the 20-25 range.

He has beaten 5 of the QBs you listed straight up. Yes, I’m including CJ Stroud.

Laughable, man.

[Grahamburn]

Whoops, six. I didn’t even notice you listed Derek Carr too. You can’t be serious.