Who's the 3rd?

[The Outsider]

You call him a 33 year old TE. Is there a reason for mentioning his age? His YPR is right in line with his career average. PFF grade, 91. I don’t get it. I don’t think he’s fallen off.

As for the division, I don’t recall anybody here saying the Chiefs we’re gonna implode with Cheetah leaving. Seems to reason that the aesthetic of their offense would change by losing the most dynamic skill player in the NFL.

Yeah dead on about Kelce, and wasn't Tony Gonzalez extremely effective even in his last season? Kelce is at that level. He's had no drop off with age because his game isn't based wholly around speed and he's been lucky with injuries.

[The Outsider]

He really needs to get out. You've made your money, just get out. Damn.

I do not know what sort of support group he has around him, but someone needs to step up and tell him to quit. He also needs to sue the shit out of the dolphins and NFL.


Revisiting this Poll is a riot.

Should be amended to

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert

Outside looking in:
Trevor Lawrence
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Jalen Hurts
Mac Jones

Hurts should easily be in the top tier after the season he's had. I see virtually no flaws in his game. Mac shouldn't even be on the list.

It should look something like this:

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Jalen Hurts

Outside Looking In:
Justin Herbert
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Trevor Lawrence
Tua Tagovailoa

[Digital_Damage]

I do not know what sort of support group he has around him, but someone needs to step up and tell him to quit. He also needs to sue the shit out of the dolphins and NFL.


Revisiting this Poll is a riot.

Should be amended to

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert

Outside looking in:
Trevor Lawrence
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Jalen Hurts
Mac Jones

Hurts should easily be in the top tier after the season he's had. I see virtually no flaws in his game. Mac shouldn't even be on the list.

It should look something like this:

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Jalen Hurts

Outside Looking In:
Justin Herbert
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Trevor Lawrence
Tua Tagovailoa

The flaw in Hurts is the body of evidence, he is having a switched-on year (so have others in the past). But, previous two were not great. Also, his longevity is questionable he is already getting nicked up.

Herbert's last 3 years > than Hurts.

[Buc2]

He really needs to get out. You've made your money, just get out. Damn.

I do not know what sort of support group he has around him, but someone needs to step up and tell him to quit. He also needs to sue the shit out of the dolphins and NFL.


Revisiting this Poll is a riot.

Should be amended to

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert

Outside looking in:
Trevor Lawrence
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Jalen Hurts
Mac Jones

I hadn't voted yet, so I went ahead and broke the tie.

[King Bootz]

What's this new-found shock and awe that young QBs actually improve? I've never seen this many dumbass arguments saying "I can't take what he did in year 3 seriously because of what he did his rookie year". This is some new age shit meant to fit some unknown agenda. It's confusing to me.

[King Bootz]

I do not know what sort of support group he has around him, but someone needs to step up and tell him to quit. He also needs to sue the shit out of the dolphins and NFL.


Revisiting this Poll is a riot.

Should be amended to

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert

Outside looking in:
Trevor Lawrence
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Jalen Hurts
Mac Jones

Hurts should easily be in the top tier after the season he's had. I see virtually no flaws in his game. Mac shouldn't even be on the list.

It should look something like this:

Heavy consideration:
Joe Burrow
Jalen Hurts

Outside Looking In:
Justin Herbert
Kirk Cousins

Long odds:
Trevor Lawrence
Tua Tagovailoa

The entire premise needs to change to "Who's the 2nd"? Honestly, I'd put Burrow ahead of Allen at this point. But there's a debate to be had there. Hurts is up there as well.

[King Bootz]

Also when I stack up Hurts & Herbert, you look at the numbers 1 guy is trending up while the other is trending down. Both are in year 3, 1 is an MVP candidate while the other is barely above a 90 passer rating.

[acmillis]

What's this new-found shock and awe that young QBs actually improve? I've never seen this many dumbass arguments saying "I can't take what he did in year 3 seriously because of what he did his rookie year". This is some new age shit meant to fit some unknown agenda. It's confusing to me.

Bc it’s more likely than not that they won’t become elite. Freeman looked great in his 4th season but before and after was not good.

Lamar looked great (obviously MVP) but wasn’t as good before or after.

Nick foles looke amazing year 2, but…

Blake borrows looked good year 2, but…

The list of qbs who looked good for a year and then didn’t far exceeds the list of perpetual improvement.

I will say not putting Hurts in consideration as of right now as a top qb is ridiculous. IMO, he’s the MVP hands down.

[King Bootz]

What's this new-found shock and awe that young QBs actually improve? I've never seen this many dumbass arguments saying "I can't take what he did in year 3 seriously because of what he did his rookie year". This is some new age shit meant to fit some unknown agenda. It's confusing to me.

Bc it’s more likely than not that they won’t become elite. Freeman looked great in his 4th season but before and after was not good.

Lamar looked great (obviously MVP) but wasn’t as good before or after.

Nick foles looke amazing year 2, but…

Blake borrows looked good year 2, but…

The list of qbs who looked good for a year and then didn’t far exceeds the list of perpetual improvement.

I will say not putting Hurts in consideration as of right now as a top qb is ridiculous. IMO, he’s the MVP hands down.

It's likely that 95% of QBs won't become elite. But even then your argument is extremely flawed. No QB comes out the gates looking like the best in the league and not improving as you seem to believe. @Onthebrink called you out about your cherry picking and you continue to do so with these very flawed, incomplete and incompetent positions.

[acmillis]

Bc it’s more likely than not that they won’t become elite. Freeman looked great in his 4th season but before and after was not good.

Lamar looked great (obviously MVP) but wasn’t as good before or after.

Nick foles looke amazing year 2, but…

Blake borrows looked good year 2, but…

The list of qbs who looked good for a year and then didn’t far exceeds the list of perpetual improvement.

I will say not putting Hurts in consideration as of right now as a top qb is ridiculous. IMO, he’s the MVP hands down.

It's likely that 95% of QBs won't become elite. But even then your argument is extremely flawed. No QB comes out the gates looking like the best in the league and not improving as you seem to believe. @Onthebrink called you out about your cherry picking and you continue to do so with these very flawed, incomplete and incompetent positions.

I’m going to be Bootz for a minute.
Where are you getting 95% from, prove it, show me the stats.

[King Bootz]

It's likely that 95% of QBs won't become elite. But even then your argument is extremely flawed. No QB comes out the gates looking like the best in the league and not improving as you seem to believe. @Onthebrink called you out about your cherry picking and you continue to do so with these very flawed, incomplete and incompetent positions.

I’m going to be Bootz for a minute.
Where are you getting 95% from, prove it, show me the stats.

95% is an arbitrary figure of course. You're not being me at all, you're being @acmillis with your shotty evaluation of the QB position. You also missed "it's likely that...." but by all means deflect away. You've more than proven that how you view the QB position is completely wrong and goes against everything logical. You're a joke who can only try to make jokes but fail at even that.

[King Bootz]

@acmillis Just so we're clear, you believe guys like Tua and Justin Fields are busts who don't belong in the league but believes Kyle Trask deserves to be a starter. Let that sink in.

[Kress]

your shotty evaluation

Is that a combination of shoddy and shitty?

[King Bootz]

your shotty evaluation

Is that a combination of shoddy and shitty?

Mostly shitty but yes.

[acmillis]

@acmillis Just so we're clear, you believe guys like Tua and Justin Fields are busts who don't belong in the league but believes Kyle Trask deserves to be a starter. Let that sink in.

Justin fields is trash, yes.
Tua isn’t complete garbage, but he’s not the third best qb as you were arguing.

Your awful testy this week, musta got a lump of coal for Christmas

[King Bootz]

@acmillis Just so we're clear, you believe guys like Tua and Justin Fields are busts who don't belong in the league but believes Kyle Trask deserves to be a starter. Let that sink in.

Justin fields is trash, yes.
Tua isn’t complete garbage, but he’s not the third best qb as you were arguing.

Your awful testy this week, musta got a lump of coal for Christmas

Fields has improved from his rookie year to his 2nd.

Tua is only the highest rated passer in football this year. Nothing major.

My awful testy what? Did you mean You're? Oh okay.

[Kress]

Why is he talking about your testies?

[Digital_Damage]

Justin fields is trash, yes.
Tua isn’t complete garbage, but he’s not the third best qb as you were arguing.

Your awful testy this week, musta got a lump of coal for Christmas

He gets this way when proven wrong.

My guess is it has something to do with the fact I told him all his picks were one blown wheel/head bump away from obscurity...

Slinging strawmen and aggressive post to distract.

Murry = DNF
Lamar = DNF
Tua = DNF

His past gems all flamed out too.

RG III
Newton

My guess is he is also pushing some bullshit about "he was MVP for one season" so he is elite.

You don't get in Canton for being a flash in the pan. Long term top 5/10 consistency does.

Simply the worst forecaster of potential QB's success ever.

[Sdbucs]

Fields looked OK for a couple of games this season because they let him/made him run. That's all he is, a running back that can throw a football. He's not a good QB (in current state) because he can't do what QBs need to do: make reads. He's just an athlete. His ceiling is a couple high performing seasons until his body breaks down. His floor is what he looks like as a passer today.

Compare that to Hurts who is not only able to run with the ball but also make the necessary reads/throws.

[King Bootz]

Why is he talking about your testies?

He must not have liked the taste of them this morning I guess. #SadInPants (Hey Pete!)

[The Outsider]

Did no one tell Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, et al that being able to run means you're not allowed to be good at throwing the ball?

It's science.

[Digital_Damage]

Did no one tell Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, et al that being able to run means you're not allowed to be good at throwing the ball?

It's science.

There is a huge difference between pass first, scramble as a last resort

Warren Moon is an amazing example of not being a flash in the pan. A lot of accolades, never an MVP, but put the work in EVERY year. A Personal fav.

He only scrambled 7% of the time.

Hurts is doing it 26% of the time this season.
Jackson, 30% of the time over his career.

Mahomes (another personal fav)? 9% of the time.

Its Math.

[King Bootz]

Did no one tell Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, et al that being able to run means you're not allowed to be good at throwing the ball?

It's science.

There is a huge difference between pass first, scramble as a last resort

Warren Moon is an amazing example of not being a flash in the pan. A lot of accolades, never an MVP, but put the work in EVERY year. A Personal fav.

He only scrambled 7% of the time.

Hurts is doing it 26% of the time this season.
Jackson, 30% of the time over his career.

Mahomes (another personal fav)? 9% of the time.

Its Math.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

[Kress]

I don't get the concept that a "scramble" is bad. You give yourself another player ready to advance the ball. You force the defense to keep a guy in to account for said player.

As stated, it's math.

[Digital_Damage]

I don't get the concept that a "scramble" is bad. You give yourself another player ready to advance the ball. You force the defense to keep a guy in to account for said player.

As stated, it's math.

It places the center piece of your franchise at an unnecessary risk. The more you do it, the higher the risk.

Just look at who did not play last week. Look at who had their careers end with a knee injury. Now look at who came back from a knee injury and excelled. There is an established history.

I mean... Murray was not even touched...

[King Bootz]

There is a huge difference between pass first, scramble as a last resort

Warren Moon is an amazing example of not being a flash in the pan. A lot of accolades, never an MVP, but put the work in EVERY year. A Personal fav.

He only scrambled 7% of the time.

Hurts is doing it 26% of the time this season.
Jackson, 30% of the time over his career.

Mahomes (another personal fav)? 9% of the time.

Its Math.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

[Kress]

I don't get the concept that a "scramble" is bad. You give yourself another player ready to advance the ball. You force the defense to keep a guy in to account for said player.

As stated, it's math.

It places the center piece of your franchise at an unnecessary risk. The more you do it, the higher the risk.

Just look at who did not play last week. Look at who had their careers end with a knee injury. Now look at who came back from a knee injury and excelled. There is an established history.

I mean... Murray was not even touched...

I get that, but it's football. Our season literally ended last year because Wirfs got rolled up on. Our right tackle has something freaky happen.... and we're toast.

[Digital_Damage]

It places the center piece of your franchise at an unnecessary risk. The more you do it, the higher the risk.

Just look at who did not play last week. Look at who had their careers end with a knee injury. Now look at who came back from a knee injury and excelled. There is an established history.

I mean... Murray was not even touched...

I get that, but it's football. Our season literally ended last year because Wirfs got rolled up on. Our right tackle has something freaky happen.... and we're toast.

Our season ended last year because Bowles went full retard.

[Kress]

I get that, but it's football. Our season literally ended last year because Wirfs got rolled up on. Our right tackle has something freaky happen.... and we're toast.

Our season ended last year because Bowles went full retard.

Also that.

We should therefore put him in charge of errrrything.

[The Outsider]

Something to consider.

[Digital_Damage]

Something to consider.

It never will be by some on here....

[Snake]

It’s too bad he’s white.

[Doctor]

I wish there was a way to "adjust for inflation" for past yards. With more passing and longer seasons, those records will only keep on being reset.

[Kress]

I wish there was a way to "adjust for inflation" for past yards. With more passing and longer seasons, those records will only keep on being reset.

It's just the way of things. Extra games suck for sure, but even if you try to do by-game comparisons, it won't matter. Guys are bigger, stronger, faster, and hell, have better equipment. I don't even understand the material of the gloves receivers wear these days. They look like they would stick to anything.

Which, come to think of it, is odd. When I was in high school, we had to have our gloves inspected to make sure they were not illegal. The old school kind you had to repeatedly spit on to make tacky. Now these guys are freely wearing some kind of rubber looking stuff.

[acmillis]

I wish there was a way to "adjust for inflation" for past yards. With more passing and longer seasons, those records will only keep on being reset.

It's just the way of things. Extra games suck for sure, but even if you try to do by-game comparisons, it won't matter. Guys are bigger, stronger, faster, and hell, have better equipment. I don't even understand the material of the gloves receivers wear these days. They look like they would stick to anything.

Which, come to think of it, is odd. When I was in high school, we had to have our gloves inspected to make sure they were not illegal. The old school kind you had to repeatedly spit on to make tacky. Now these guys are freely wearing some kind of rubber looking stuff.

Politics has it's own area here, Counselor.