Who's the 3rd?

[King Bootz]

There's a very strong argument for Tua being listed here. You can make a case that his only issue is the concussion/back injury this season. He's still #1 in Quarterback rating & #2 in QBR this season, #1 in yards/attempt and 2nd in completion% at 69.6. He was also undefeated before he got hurt(even though the Dolphins lost the Bengals game). Tua was definitely trending in the right direction. But he has to stay healthy.

Murray is showing he shouldn't have been put on this list. He and the Cardinals are trending in the wrong direction.

[BucsNBills]

I guess to put this sightly differently, if I had the third pick in a draft, and both Allen and Mahomes went 1 and 2, who am I picking third?

Herbert all day. His physical tools are right there inline with the two guys who went before him. His mechanics are damn near perfect. His throwing motion is textbook. And in the raiders game last year he showed he has ice in his veins with 4th down conversion after 4th down conversion to keep them alive.

Imo he's being held back by unimaginative play calling and design and by a HC things seems to think football games are won by studying excel spreadsheets.

So yeah, I'm taking Herbert all day every day if Allen and Mahomes is off the board.

[Snake]

If I had to win a game today, I probably take Lamar Jackson. But if we’re projecting out, I tend to agree with BnB and PMI.

Burrow is good and I think he’ll improve. But I don’t ever see him being a top 5 QB in the NFL. I could end up looking stupid saying that.

[King Bootz]

Imo he's being held back by unimaginative play calling and design

Am I crazy or is it just a big coincidence that this is the argument people make whenever a QB they prefer isn't playing up to par?

[The Outsider]

Imo he's being held back by unimaginative play calling and design

Am I crazy or is it just a big coincidence that this is the argument people make whenever a QB they prefer isn't playing up to par?

Nah, you right. Herbert is a fine QB but his issues go beyond the coaching staff. That said I do agree with PMI that I think that Herbert has one of the highest ceilings on the list. With hindsight I'm obviously still taking Allen or Mahomes over him, but he'd be in the conversation for sure.

[King Bootz]

Am I crazy or is it just a big coincidence that this is the argument people make whenever a QB they prefer isn't playing up to par?

Nah, you right. Herbert is a fine QB but his issues go beyond the coaching staff. That said I do agree with PMI that I think that Herbert has one of the highest ceilings on the list. With hindsight I'm obviously still taking Allen or Mahomes over him, but he'd be in the conversation for sure.

Not just him, I see that argue made all of the time. Greg Roman/Lamar Jackson. Byron Leftwich/Tom Brady. Herbert has a very high ceiling but this argument becomes a crutch when it's used too often.

[King Bootz]

Okay, it's been a week since I made this topic. So I'll give my opinion, although I may have spoiled it a buy earlier.

Here's my case for why Tua is #3. There are 2 knocks on his game. #1 that he can't make 60 yard throws down the field...Oh wait



..sorry, must be a glitch & #2 that he can't stay healthy.

I'll circle back to the #1 critic of his game in a minute. @Snake went into detail Tua's various injuries in college and in the pros already through year 3. That list unfortunately is growing. But when he's been on the field this season he has been a difference maker for the Dolphins. Tua is 16-8 as a starter but the Dolphins are 6-9 without him. He's missed too many games thus far.

On the field as I stated earlier, #1 in passer rating, yards/attempt & air yards/attempt. #2 in QBR & #3 completion %. He's taken that next step.

Also look at his splits. Guess who's the #1 rated passer on 3rd down & in the 4th quarter this season? Yep. That's when you want your QB to be at his best, those clutch moments. Tua has been that guy.

Now let's go back to the #1 knock on him, the arm. No, he doesn't have a rocket. He can't fling it 60-70 yards down the field. But he doesn't really have to. If you were going to do a master class on QB mechanics, Tua would be featured in that video. He's almost robotic in the way he repeats his delivery. His throwing motion is short, quick, consistent. Footwork is nearly flawless. He doesn't have a rocket but he can fit the ball into tight windows and is as accurate a passer as there is in the league.

Now my biggest reason he's #3, he's always arguably had the highest ceiling. In recent memory, there's been 2 draft slogans created for getting the #1 overall pick. "Suck for Luck" and "Tank for Tua". Andrew Luck was seen as the next Peyton Manning. The QB prospect with zero flaws. Tua was seen as something similar. His only knock was the injuries. But since 2020, Tua has trended in the right direction. He's improved his game. He's always been a winner more than he has a loser, which most of the QBs on this list can't say. He just needs to stay healthy.

I'd love to revisit this in a few years to see how this list shakes out. But IMO Tua will show the world why Tank for Tua was ever made a slogan.

[The Outsider]

Okay, it's been a week since I made this topic. So I'll give my opinion, although I may have spoiled it a buy earlier.

Here's my case for why Tua is #3. There are 2 knocks on his game. #1 that he can't make 60 yard throws down the field & #2 that he can't stay healthy.

I'll circle back to the #1 critic of his game in a minute. @Snake went into detail Tua's various injuries in college and in the pros already through year 3. That list unfortunately is growing. But when he's been on the field this season he has been a difference maker for the Dolphins. Tua is 16-8 as a starter but the Dolphins are 6-9 without him. He's missed too many games thus far.

On the field as I stated earlier, #1 in passer rating, yards/attempt & air yards/attempt. #2 in QBR & #3 completion %. He's taken that next step.

Also look at his splits. Guess who's the #1 rated passer on 3rd down & in the 4th quarter this season? Yep. That's when you want your QB to be at his best, those clutch moments. Tua has been that guy.

Now let's go back to the #1 knock on him, the arm. No, he doesn't have a rocket. He can't fling it 60-70 yards down the field. But he doesn't really have to. If you were going to do a master class on QB mechanics, Tua would be featured in that video. He's almost robotic in the way he repeats his delivery. His throwing motion is short, quick, consistent. Footwork is nearly flawless. He doesn't have a rocket but he can fit the ball into tight windows and is as accurate a passer as there is in the league.

Now my biggest reason he's #3, he's always arguably had the highest ceiling. In recent memory, there's been 2 draft slogans created for getting the #1 overall pick. "Suck for Luck" and "Tank for Tua". Andrew Luck was seen as the next Peyton Manning. The QB prospect with zero flaws. Tua was seen as something similar. His only knock was the injuries. But since 2020, Tua has trended in the right direction. He's improved his game. He's always been a winner more than he has a loser, which most of the QBs on this list can't say. He just needs to stay healthy.

I'd love to revisit this in a few years to see how this list shakes out. But IMO Tua will show the world why Tank for Tua was ever made a slogan.

So what you're saying is I need to start another totally serious thread about trading Brady to Miami for Tua?

[McFan]

For me at least, Justin Herbert isn't the number 3 guy because he has a losing record. Dude's 18-19.

In spite of him, not because of him.

Being fair, the head coach is in over his skis and with Keenan Allen hurt, Herbert only really has Eckler and Mike Williams that the opposing defense has to account for. I think he is #3 with Lamar right behind him.

[McFan]

So what you're saying is I need to start another totally serious thread about trading Brady to Miami for Tua?

Unrelated question bro: When did you become so sarcastic? As you know, I love these kind of retorts. Kudos sir!

[McFan]

Am I crazy or is it just a big coincidence that this is the argument people make whenever a QB they prefer isn't playing up to par?

Can I choose A) ?

Just teasin... but in Herbert's case, it is a coincidence as I noted two posts above this one... carry on my wayward son...

[The Outsider]

So what you're saying is I need to start another totally serious thread about trading Brady to Miami for Tua?

Unrelated question bro: When did you become so sarcastic? As you know, I love these kind of retorts. Kudos sir!

I've always had it in me, I've just reached the point in my life where I've had enough of more or less everything.

In barely-middle-age I've become a cynical, recalcitrant, geriatric.

[Pirate Life]

Right now it’s Jackson. Couple of years it’ll be Burrow if they get him an oline. Hebert if he gets a better coach.

[Sdbucs]

Herbert hasn’t looked as good as he has this season. I’ll give him somewhat of an excuse due to tons of injuries on the team, but still not looking too hot. If you ask this last season I at least consider Herbert but right now he’s not in contention for top 3

I will say though… Herberts throwing motion looks a little too similar to that of Rivers. A good but not necessarily elite qb of the era and also a charger

[King Bootz]

Interesting that Herbert gets the excuse for injuries on his team but Lamar Jackson, who's team has just as many injuries, does not. Very interesting..

[The Outsider]

Interesting that Herbert gets the excuse for injuries on his team but Lamar Jackson, who's team has just as many injuries, does not. Very interesting..

I give Jackson the excuse, personally. That team has been injury-plagued for most of his career. This season though, in the injury-excuse race, Herbert has the edge due to also personally having a decimated torso.

Edit: Like I'm not saying Jameis Winston's fractured vertebrae are why he was playing like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae, but it certainly didn't help him play like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae now featuring LASIK.

[King Bootz]

Interesting that Herbert gets the excuse for injuries on his team but Lamar Jackson, who's team has just as many injuries, does not. Very interesting..

I give Jackson the excuse, personally. That team has been injury-plagued for most of his career. This season though, in the injury-excuse race, Herbert has the edge due to also personally having a decimated torso.

Edit: Like I'm not saying Jameis Winston's fractured vertebrae are why he was playing like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae, but it certainly didn't help him play like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae now featuring LASIK.

Herbert doesn't even need the injury excuse though. He has the better record between him and Jackson at this point. So you could make a strong case for him being #3 based off the results alone.

There's no right or wrong answers here. But personally I hate the injury excuse in these debates.

[The Outsider]

I give Jackson the excuse, personally. That team has been injury-plagued for most of his career. This season though, in the injury-excuse race, Herbert has the edge due to also personally having a decimated torso.

Edit: Like I'm not saying Jameis Winston's fractured vertebrae are why he was playing like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae, but it certainly didn't help him play like Jameis Winston without fractured vertebrae now featuring LASIK.

Herbert doesn't even need the injury excuse though. He has the better record between him and Jackson at this point. So you could make a strong case for him being #3 based off the results alone.

There's no right or wrong answers here. But personally I hate the injury excuse in these debates.

Injuries are a real thing that happen and impact play sometimes for the duration of a career. Hard to have these kinds of debates without including them at least as peripheral considerations.

[King Bootz]

Herbert doesn't even need the injury excuse though. He has the better record between him and Jackson at this point. So you could make a strong case for him being #3 based off the results alone.

There's no right or wrong answers here. But personally I hate the injury excuse in these debates.

Injuries are a real thing that happen and impact play sometimes for the duration of a career. Hard to have these kinds of debates without including them at least as peripheral considerations.

What's the argument then? That Justin Herbert is better than the other QBs listed here because his ribs/back are messed up? By that logic, wouldn't Tua be higher because his back and head got fucked up?

I get that injuries play a part. But that shouldn't adjust the curve IMO. I look at Justin Herbert's season and he's playing extremely well all things considering.

[Selmon Rules]

Unrelated question bro: When did you become so sarcastic? As you know, I love these kind of retorts. Kudos sir!

In barely-middle-age I've become a cynical, recalcitrant, geriatric.

The word you are looking for is "curmudgeon"

[The Outsider]

In barely-middle-age I've become a cynical, recalcitrant, geriatric.

The word you are looking for is "curmudgeon"

Oh, no, geriatric works. I have the shoulders, neck, and knees of a 65+ year old.

[Selmon Rules]

The word you are looking for is "curmudgeon"

Oh, no, geriatric works. I have the shoulders, neck, and knees of a 65+ year old.

Maybe so, being a curmudgeon is more of a state of mind thing I guess

[Digital_Damage]

There's a very strong argument for Tua being listed here. You can make a case that his only issue is the concussion/back injury this season. He's still #1 in Quarterback rating & #2 in QBR this season, #1 in yards/attempt and 2nd in completion% at 69.6. He was also undefeated before he got hurt(even though the Dolphins lost the Bengals game). Tua was definitely trending in the right direction. But he has to stay healthy.

Murray is showing he shouldn't have been put on this list. He and the Cardinals are trending in the wrong direction.

Tua is done... his eggs are scrambled; it does not heal, and he will forever be susceptible to it and the effects. Just listen to his latest interview he was knocked out cold.

[King Bootz]

There's a very strong argument for Tua being listed here. You can make a case that his only issue is the concussion/back injury this season. He's still #1 in Quarterback rating & #2 in QBR this season, #1 in yards/attempt and 2nd in completion% at 69.6. He was also undefeated before he got hurt(even though the Dolphins lost the Bengals game). Tua was definitely trending in the right direction. But he has to stay healthy.

Murray is showing he shouldn't have been put on this list. He and the Cardinals are trending in the wrong direction.

Tua is done... his eggs are scrambled; it does not heal, and he will forever be susceptible to it and the effects. Just listen to his latest interview he was knocked out cold.

You're a borderline character ala BucsnBills/LUGZ. I get a kick out of your melodramatic analysis when it comes to Trevor Lawrence being done or (insert black QB) being nothing but a playground kid or any other cynical or you needing serious therapy because of deep rooted issues with colorism & childhood trauma. Your cynical, dark assessments constantly gets torn apart by any number of members here because they are more often than not complete shit. So I'll throw this one about Tua being done in the box as well, kiddo.

Dont take it too hard. Look at the bright side, at least you made me laugh.

[Digital_Damage]

Tua is done... his eggs are scrambled; it does not heal, and he will forever be susceptible to it and the effects. Just listen to his latest interview he was knocked out cold.

You're a borderline character ala BucsnBills/LUGZ. I get a kick out of your melodramatic analysis when it comes to Trevor Lawrence being done or (insert black QB) being nothing but a playground kid or any other cynical or you needing serious therapy because of deep rooted issues with colorism & childhood trauma. Your cynical, dark assessments constantly gets torn apart by any number of members here because they are more often than not complete shit. So I'll throw this one about Tua being done in the box as well, kiddo.

Dont take it too hard. Look at the bright side, at least you made me laugh.

ya... no one here takes you seriously in the slightest anymore. We were exhausted with your constant strawmen, obfuscation, racism and reneging... Now we could all just give a shit, if you tripped and impaled your jugular with your cute barber scissors you would not even get a RIP thread. You are all alone here.

[King Bootz]

You're a borderline character ala BucsnBills/LUGZ. I get a kick out of your melodramatic analysis when it comes to Trevor Lawrence being done or (insert black QB) being nothing but a playground kid or any other cynical or you needing serious therapy because of deep rooted issues with colorism & childhood trauma. Your cynical, dark assessments constantly gets torn apart by any number of members here because they are more often than not complete shit. So I'll throw this one about Tua being done in the box as well, kiddo.

Dont take it too hard. Look at the bright side, at least you made me laugh.

ya... no one here takes you seriously in the slightest anymore. We were exhausted with your constant strawmen, obfuscation, racism and reneging... Now we could all just give a shit, if you tripped and impaled your jugular with your cute barber scissors you would not even get a RIP thread. You are all alone here.

Tell me you can't read a room, without telling me you can't read a room. Your delusion is cute.

[Digital_Damage]

ya... no one here takes you seriously in the slightest anymore. We were exhausted with your constant strawmen, obfuscation, racism and reneging... Now we could all just give a shit, if you tripped and impaled your jugular with your cute barber scissors you would not even get a RIP thread. You are all alone here.

Tell me you can't read a room, without telling me you can't read a room. Your delusion is cute.

oh to walk through life completely oblivious.

[King Bootz]

Tell me you can't read a room, without telling me you can't read a room. Your delusion is cute.

oh to walk through life completely oblivious.

Tell me how it feels, bud

[acmillis]

Ahhhh BZ, we’ve come to the, “I’m rubber, you’re glue” portion of the thread

[Kress]

How did we get dragged into this?

After missing multiple weeks due to the concussion he suffered on Sept. 29, Tagovailoa is preparing to start this Sunday for the Dolphins against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

"I'm just really excited that I can prepare and play this Sunday," Tagovailoa said Wednesday in his first news conference with the media since his concussion. "I think everyone is excited to go out there and compete against a really good Steelers team."

Pittsburgh is still soaring after scoring an unlikely win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last weekend in a game in which the Steelers held the Buccaneers to just 18 points. With Tagovailoa back in the mix, the Dolphins will expect to score more than their Sunshine State neighbors did at Acrisure Stadium.

It's not a guarantee, given Tagovailoa has not played since he suffered a concussion in the first half of Miami's Week 4 loss to Cincinnati on Sept. 29. During that time, the Dolphins were forced to go with Teddy Bridgewater and rookie Skylar Thompson, losing each game by a combined margin of 64-33. In that time, Tagovailoa, who cleared the league's concussion protocol last Saturday, could do little more than watch his teammates battle through their struggles.

"There's things that you can do in the locker room to keep the guys encouraged, to keep the guys going, motivated," Tagovailoa said. "But it sucks. As a competitor, I want to be out there with the guys. I want to be able to go out there and help our guys win games. That's a terrible feeling that I could only watch from the sidelines."

Tagovailoa was asked about his concussion, which was frightening to everyone watching him as he laid on the turf at Paycor Stadium in Cincinnati. Tagovailoa said Wednesday he doesn't have a complete recollection of what happened due to the injury he sustained.

"I wouldn't say it was scary for me at the time because there was a point where I was unconscious," Tagovailoa said. "I couldn't really tell what was going on. So when I did come to and kind of realize what was going on, what was happening, I didn't think of anything long-term or short-term. I was just wondering what happened. ...

"I remember the entire night up to the point where I got tackled, but yeah, after I got tackled, I don't remember much from there. Getting carted off, I don't remember that. But I do remember things that were going on in the ambulance and then when I arrived at the hospital."

The Dolphins hope to protect Tagovailoa well enough to prevent any further injuries. It's a focus that matters more than the team's 3-3 record, although they'd likely admit they're in the best position to win when Tagovailoa is on the field. To this effort, the Dolphins are emphasizing the importance of giving up on plays in which the likelihood of success is not worth the risk for Tagovailoa.

"I talked to him a lot sooner than this week. When we were -- when he'd come by the office and we just kind of talk about how things have kind of gone, there's risks in this game and you've got to be able to control the controllables," Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel said Monday. "One thing for him is you love his competitive nature, but there is a time in a play where you have to kind of concede, and that's where he's kind of been focusing on because it's something that's not natural to him. He wants to break every tackle, and he doesn't like when plays don't work. Well, sometimes they won't.

"So that's something that he's mindful of, and I think that that's a consistency of all the really great quarterbacks that you think of, the guys that you look up to, the guys that kind of set forth the example of how to play the position, they do find ways to be available. And part of that is that concession, but that is -- all things considered, that's probably a good problem to have in terms of a competitor. You just need to be able to understand your importance to the team and how sometimes the best play you can make is a throwaway."

Miami isn't close to throwing away its season after six weeks. Tagovailoa will hope to get them back on track in his first game back this weekend.

[The Outsider]

Fuck. Miami.

[King Bootz]

Okay, it's been a week since I made this topic. So I'll give my opinion, although I may have spoiled it a buy earlier.

Here's my case for why Tua is #3. There are 2 knocks on his game. #1 that he can't make 60 yard throws down the field...Oh wait



..sorry, must be a glitch & #2 that he can't stay healthy.

I'll circle back to the #1 critic of his game in a minute. @Snake went into detail Tua's various injuries in college and in the pros already through year 3. That list unfortunately is growing. But when he's been on the field this season he has been a difference maker for the Dolphins. Tua is 16-8 as a starter but the Dolphins are 6-9 without him. He's missed too many games thus far.

On the field as I stated earlier, #1 in passer rating, yards/attempt & air yards/attempt. #2 in QBR & #3 completion %. He's taken that next step.

Also look at his splits. Guess who's the #1 rated passer on 3rd down & in the 4th quarter this season? Yep. That's when you want your QB to be at his best, those clutch moments. Tua has been that guy.

Now let's go back to the #1 knock on him, the arm. No, he doesn't have a rocket. He can't fling it 60-70 yards down the field. But he doesn't really have to. If you were going to do a master class on QB mechanics, Tua would be featured in that video. He's almost robotic in the way he repeats his delivery. His throwing motion is short, quick, consistent. Footwork is nearly flawless. He doesn't have a rocket but he can fit the ball into tight windows and is as accurate a passer as there is in the league.

Now my biggest reason he's #3, he's always arguably had the highest ceiling. In recent memory, there's been 2 draft slogans created for getting the #1 overall pick. "Suck for Luck" and "Tank for Tua". Andrew Luck was seen as the next Peyton Manning. The QB prospect with zero flaws. Tua was seen as something similar. His only knock was the injuries. But since 2020, Tua has trended in the right direction. He's improved his game. He's always been a winner more than he has a loser, which most of the QBs on this list can't say. He just needs to stay healthy.

I'd love to revisit this in a few years to see how this list shakes out. But IMO Tua will show the world why Tank for Tua was ever made a slogan.

Not hyperbole to say Tua has been the 2nd best QB in all of football this year. Some of his peers are regressing. He did miss a few games with the concussion but he's 3rd in TD passes, has the best TD/INT ratio and is #1 in passer rating, QBR, TD%, yards/attempt and air yards per attempt.

[King Bootz]

So I was completely wrong here. Josh Allen has proven he's not ready to take that step up quite yet. He's been trending down since 2020.

As of today, this season 2 & 3 have clearly been Tua & Hurts. The media and fans have been trying to find reasons to doubt both while all they've done is found ways to win.

[acmillis]

So I was completely wrong here. Josh Allen has proven he's not ready to take that step up quite yet. He's been trending down since 2020.

As of today, this season 2 & 3 have clearly been Tua & Hurts. The media and fans have been trying to find reasons to doubt both while all they've done is found ways to win.

People (like me) like Allen over the other two because he's done it for longer. Also, the Eagles are a great team this year, sure, but their schedule has been baby shizzle soft.

The 'Phins had three wins against teams that are turning out to be decent to pretty good, but this next three game stretch (@SF, @LAC, @BUF) will show us a lot about Tua and the Phins as a whole. Because of their time in the league (or playing time because Tua was injured and/or garbage in previous seasons), Allen gets the nod simply for longevity.

If you're just looking at stats, Allen is still having a better season than Hurts in QBR (if you believe in that)

[King Bootz]

So I was completely wrong here. Josh Allen has proven he's not ready to take that step up quite yet. He's been trending down since 2020.

As of today, this season 2 & 3 have clearly been Tua & Hurts. The media and fans have been trying to find reasons to doubt both while all they've done is found ways to win.

People (like me) like Allen over the other two because he's done it for longer. Also, the Eagles are a great team this year, sure, but their schedule has been baby shizzle soft.

The 'Phins had three wins against teams that are turning out to be decent to pretty good, but this next three game stretch (@SF, @LAC, @BUF) will show us a lot about Tua and the Phins as a whole. Because of their time in the league (or playing time because Tua was injured and/or garbage in previous seasons), Allen gets the nod simply for longevity.

If you're just looking at stats, Allen is still having a better season than Hurts in QBR (if you believe in that)

I'm gonna use the same argument you've made against Lamar since he won MVP. He's declined since his outstanding 2020 season.

I believe in QBR in a sense but I don't pretend to be an expert on it. Allen & Hurts QBRs are separated by 5 points. Anything over 65 is supposed to be really really good. So it's kind of picking nits.

What's not passing the eye test for me this year with Josh Allen are these God awful turnovers. Thanksgiving, that pick he threw my brother was like "that's not his fault, it was batted up". Well it was batted up by a Lions defender. Ball touched 2 Lions players and not 1 Buffalo Bill.

All 3 teams have beaten some good competition.

Buffalo- KC, Baltimore, Tennessee
Philly- Minnesota, Washington, Dallas
Miami- Baltimore, Buffalo, New England