NFL '22 - Coachs Hot Seat

[MJW]

If you think the Steelers organization is happy about 9-8, you're funny.
If you think Carroll has been working with nearly as much talent in Seattle, you're hilarious.

Yet you're trying to convince us that the Seahawks organization is ecstatic with 9-8...

Seattle has had way more talent recently and even currently.

Now you're being silly.

I'm bored. You don't like my list? Make your own.

[_MB_]

Neither one is winning their division this year anyway and in both cases it's not due to coaching.

Tomlin and Carroll should be considered safe and neither of you have any credibility.

[MJW]

Neither one is winning their division this year anyway and in both cases it's not due to coaching.

Tomlin and Carroll should be considered safe and neither of you have any credibility.

I didn't say Tomlin was on the Hot Seat. I think he gets another year regardless. But if you're telling me he absolutely won't be in trouble with two more .500ish seasons, that I'd disagree with.

Carroll will retire before they feel like firing him. Dude should have won COTY last year and he's in his 70s.

[Navybuc]

Warm
Eberflus
Tomlin
McCarthy
Allen

Hot
Rivera
Vrabel
LaFleur
Srefanski
Smith

Boiling
Bowles

[Phantom]

If Bucs fired Todd Bowles.. end up with first overall pick


Lincoln Riley-Caleb Williams combos?

[MJW]

If Bucs fired Todd Bowles.. end up with first overall pick


Lincoln Riley-Caleb Williams combos?

NGL, Kinsbury sort of ruined the young hot college offensive mastermind hire for me, for now.

[Miller4Prez64]

If we do indeed fire Bowles, I would like a younger offensive coach with the idea of rebuilding/overhauling the offense in mind. I don’t think a college coach is the right way to go though.

[MJW]

If we do indeed fire Bowles, I would like a younger offensive coach with the idea of rebuilding/overhauling the offense in mind. I don’t think a college coach is the right way to go though.

Some names that fit this general vibe:

- Kellen Moore from the Chargers. His firing was a joke and I'm not holding it against him. Let's see what he does with Herbert and those receivers.

- Eric Bienemy from the Commanders. If he puts together a great (or even good) offense with that group, he deserves it.

- Ken Dorsey from the Bills. I'm very interested to see how he incorporates improved run game talent.

- Ben Johnson from the Lions. He's got some real talent to work with this season. If they expand on what they did last year, someone will hire him. He's also 36, which is worth noting if you want a guy to "grow" with your franchise.

- Brian Johnson from the Eagles. Next man up with Steichen gone.

- Brian Callahan from the Bengals. Zac Taylor's OC. Also the son of Gruden's buddy, aka the worst coach in Nebraska football history.

- Mike Kafka from the Giants. Unless they regress offensively, he's almost a lock for serious consideration.

- Shane Waldron from the Seahawks. The actual OC who oversaw the rebirth of Geno Smith.

[Naismith]

I don't think Belichick is nearly as locked in as one would assume, but mainly because I've read/heard on podcasts that he and Robert Kraft haven't enjoyed a great relationship in the recent past.

I've (probably) been wrong before, but I think Tomlin can stay until he is ready to go. I don't think Saleh has a grace period at all. Same with McDaniels. I'd swap them with Arthur Smith and Mike Vrabel.

[Doctor]

So will the next head coach be "boiling" in their second year too?

[Bootz]

I'll play and use the @MJW grading scale. Plus I'll add what's missing here, a commonsense section for coaches who aren't even on the chopping block.

THEY'LL LEAVE WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE LEAVING, PERIOD:
Pete Carroll, Seahawks
Bill Belichick, Patriots
Andy Reid, Chiefs
Mike Tomlin, Chiefs
John Harbaugh, Ravens

SAFE NO MATTER WHAT:
Brian Daboll, Giants
Nick Sirianni, Eagles
Kevin O'Connell, Vikings
Frank Reich, Panthers
Jonathan Gannon, Cardinals
Sean McDermott, Bills
Zac Taylor, Bengals
Shane Steichen, Colts
Doug Pederson, Jaguars
DeMeco Ryans, Texans
Sean Payton, Broncos
Sean McVay, Rams
Mike McDaniel, Dolphins

COULD PROBABLY SURVIVE TWO BAD YEARS BEFORE IT BECOMES DO OR DIE:
Kyle Shanahan, 49ers
Dan Campbell, Lions
Mike McCarthy, Cowboys

ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE A GRACE YEAR TO WORK WITH:
Matt LaFluer, Packers
Matt Eberflus, Bears
Robert Saleh, Jets
Josh McDaniels, Raiders
Todd Bowles, Bucs
Dennis Allen, Saints

A BAD 2023 AND THEY'RE PROBABLY (OR CERTAINLY) DEAD MEAT:
Ron Rivera, Commanderskins
Arthur Smith, Falcons
Kevin Stefanski, Browns
Mike Vrabel, Titans
Brandon Staley, Chargers

[acmillis]

I'll play and use the @MJW grading scale. Plus I'll add what's missing here, a commonsense section for coaches who aren't even on the chopping block.

THEY'LL LEAVE WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE LEAVING, PERIOD:
Pete Carroll, Seahawks
Bill Belichick, Patriots
Andy Reid, Chiefs
Mike Tomlin, Chiefs
John Harbaugh, Ravens

SAFE NO MATTER WHAT:
Brian Daboll, Giants
Nick Sirianni, Eagles
Kevin O'Connell, Vikings
Frank Reich, Panthers
Jonathan Gannon, Cardinals
Sean McDermott, Bills
Zac Taylor, Bengals
Shane Steichen, Colts
Doug Pederson, Jaguars
DeMeco Ryans, Texans
Sean Payton, Broncos
Sean McVay, Rams
Mike McDaniel, Dolphins

COULD PROBABLY SURVIVE TWO BAD YEARS BEFORE IT BECOMES DO OR DIE:
Kyle Shanahan, 49ers
Dan Campbell, Lions
Mike McCarthy, Cowboys You cray cray

ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE A GRACE YEAR TO WORK WITH:
Matt LaFluer, Packers
Matt Eberflus, Bears see McCarthy, Mike
Robert Saleh, Jets
Josh McDaniels, Raiders
Todd Bowles, Bucs
Dennis Allen, Saints

A BAD 2023 AND THEY'RE PROBABLY (OR CERTAINLY) DEAD MEAT:
Ron Rivera, Commanderskins
Arthur Smith, Falcons
Kevin Stefanski, Browns
Mike Vrabel, Titans
Brandon Staley, Chargers

[Navybuc]

I'll play and use the @MJW grading scale. Plus I'll add what's missing here, a commonsense section for coaches who aren't even on the chopping block.

THEY'LL LEAVE WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE LEAVING, PERIOD:
Pete Carroll, Seahawks
Bill Belichick, Patriots
Andy Reid, Chiefs
Mike Tomlin, Chiefs
John Harbaugh, Ravens

SAFE NO MATTER WHAT:
Brian Daboll, Giants
Nick Sirianni, Eagles
Kevin O'Connell, Vikings
Frank Reich, Panthers
Jonathan Gannon, Cardinals
Sean McDermott, Bills
Zac Taylor, Bengals
Shane Steichen, Colts
Doug Pederson, Jaguars
DeMeco Ryans, Texans
Sean Payton, Broncos
Sean McVay, Rams
Mike McDaniel, Dolphins

COULD PROBABLY SURVIVE TWO BAD YEARS BEFORE IT BECOMES DO OR DIE:
Kyle Shanahan, 49ers
Dan Campbell, Lions
Mike McCarthy, Cowboys

ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE A GRACE YEAR TO WORK WITH:
Matt LaFluer, Packers
Matt Eberflus, Bears
Robert Saleh, Jets
Josh McDaniels, Raiders
Todd Bowles, Bucs
Dennis Allen, Saints

A BAD 2023 AND THEY'RE PROBABLY (OR CERTAINLY) DEAD MEAT:
Ron Rivera, Commanderskins
Arthur Smith, Falcons
Kevin Stefanski, Browns
Mike Vrabel, Titans
Brandon Staley, Chargers

I don’t know if Lafleur can survive two straight years of no postseason. Not to mention those years of underperforming when they did get to the postseason.

I do think Bowles is on the hot seat. For one, he never really was hired as HC…he was handpicked by Arians to take his place. Secondly, he just flat out sucks as a HC. And if this year goes as bad as we all think it will (except doctor who thinks we’re winning the SB) the Glazers will have too much pressure to make a change.

[Bootz]

I'll play and use the @MJW grading scale. Plus I'll add what's missing here, a commonsense section for coaches who aren't even on the chopping block.

THEY'LL LEAVE WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE LEAVING, PERIOD:
Pete Carroll, Seahawks
Bill Belichick, Patriots
Andy Reid, Chiefs
Mike Tomlin, Chiefs
John Harbaugh, Ravens

SAFE NO MATTER WHAT:
Brian Daboll, Giants
Nick Sirianni, Eagles
Kevin O'Connell, Vikings
Frank Reich, Panthers
Jonathan Gannon, Cardinals
Sean McDermott, Bills
Zac Taylor, Bengals
Shane Steichen, Colts
Doug Pederson, Jaguars
DeMeco Ryans, Texans
Sean Payton, Broncos
Sean McVay, Rams
Mike McDaniel, Dolphins

COULD PROBABLY SURVIVE TWO BAD YEARS BEFORE IT BECOMES DO OR DIE:
Kyle Shanahan, 49ers
Dan Campbell, Lions
Mike McCarthy, Cowboys

ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE A GRACE YEAR TO WORK WITH:
Matt LaFluer, Packers
Matt Eberflus, Bears
Robert Saleh, Jets
Josh McDaniels, Raiders
Todd Bowles, Bucs
Dennis Allen, Saints

A BAD 2023 AND THEY'RE PROBABLY (OR CERTAINLY) DEAD MEAT:
Ron Rivera, Commanderskins
Arthur Smith, Falcons
Kevin Stefanski, Browns
Mike Vrabel, Titans
Brandon Staley, Chargers

I don’t know if Lafleur can survive two straight years of no postseason. Not to mention those years of underperforming when they did get to the postseason.

I do think Bowles is on the hot seat. For one, he never really was hired as HC…he was handpicked by Arians to take his place. Secondly, he just flat out sucks as a HC. And if this year goes as bad as we all think it will (except doctor who thinks we’re winning the SB) the Glazers will have too much pressure to make a change.

Opinions on Bowles will be jaded. Specifically yours having him as the only HC who's "boiling" when there's almost a quarter of the HCs in this league in much worse situations. Like Dennis Allen, who was also handpicked as Peyton's successor and did worse than Bowles did. Or Ron Rivera, who's going into his 4th year in Washington and has yet to have a winning season. Or Arthur Smith, who 2 years in has matching 7-10 seasons.

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

[13F11B]

Isn't 2022 over?

[acmillis]

I don’t know if Lafleur can survive two straight years of no postseason. Not to mention those years of underperforming when they did get to the postseason.

I do think Bowles is on the hot seat. For one, he never really was hired as HC…he was handpicked by Arians to take his place. Secondly, he just flat out sucks as a HC. And if this year goes as bad as we all think it will (except doctor who thinks we’re winning the SB) the Glazers will have too much pressure to make a change.

Opinions on Bowles will be jaded. Specifically yours having him as the only HC who's "boiling" when there's almost a quarter of the HCs in this league in much worse situations. Like Dennis Allen, who was also handpicked as Peyton's successor and did worse than Bowles did. Or Ron Rivera, who's going into his 4th year in Washington and has yet to have a winning season. Or Arthur Smith, who 2 years in has matching 7-10 seasons.

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

It's not unheard of to get rid of a coach who has a great winning record:

8-8
4-12
12-4 (Lost in WC game)
9-7
14-2 (Lost in Divisional round)

Marty got the axe after those five years, averaging almost 12 wins over the last three seasons.


6-10
10-6 Lost in divisional round
8-8
11-5 lost in NFCC game
10-6 lost in WC
9-7 lost in WC

Our guy Dungy.

[mdb1958]

How long has vocally wanting to ruin somebody been a thing now?

[Bootz]

Opinions on Bowles will be jaded. Specifically yours having him as the only HC who's "boiling" when there's almost a quarter of the HCs in this league in much worse situations. Like Dennis Allen, who was also handpicked as Peyton's successor and did worse than Bowles did. Or Ron Rivera, who's going into his 4th year in Washington and has yet to have a winning season. Or Arthur Smith, who 2 years in has matching 7-10 seasons.

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

It's not unheard of to get rid of a coach who has a great winning record:

8-8
4-12
12-4 (Lost in WC game)
9-7
14-2 (Lost in Divisional round)

Marty got the axe after those five years, averaging almost 12 wins over the last three seasons.


6-10
10-6 Lost in divisional round
8-8
11-5 lost in NFCC game
10-6 lost in WC
9-7 lost in WC

Our guy Dungy.

The fact that you had to go back 17 years to find a correlation to the point you tried to make should tell you something, kiddo.

[Navybuc]

I don’t know if Lafleur can survive two straight years of no postseason. Not to mention those years of underperforming when they did get to the postseason.

I do think Bowles is on the hot seat. For one, he never really was hired as HC…he was handpicked by Arians to take his place. Secondly, he just flat out sucks as a HC. And if this year goes as bad as we all think it will (except doctor who thinks we’re winning the SB) the Glazers will have too much pressure to make a change.

Opinions on Bowles will be jaded. Specifically yours having him as the only HC who's "boiling" when there's almost a quarter of the HCs in this league in much worse situations. Like Dennis Allen, who was also handpicked as Peyton's successor and did worse than Bowles did. Or Ron Rivera, who's going into his 4th year in Washington and has yet to have a winning season. Or Arthur Smith, who 2 years in has matching 7-10 seasons.

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

Since the Glazers took over, how many Bucs coaches have survived two straight losing seasons besides Gruden (who had just won the SB)?

I'll save you the research...the answer is zero. Schiano, Smith, and Koetter were all axed after two poor seasons in a row. Hell, Gruden and Dungy got canned after two straight winning seasons! So if we're going by a track record, Bowles needs to win. That's the reason for my boiling designation.

As for LaFleur, how much of that record is him and how much of it is Rodgers? You don't get regular season trophies as a head coach. And if he has two losing seasons in a row after failing to win more than one playoff game with home field advantage...you better believe his seat is hot. The GB media already has turned up the heat on him. Most wanted him gone last year.

[MJW]

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

You really don't understand that all situations - and individuals - aren't created equally? The Raiders fired Bill Callahan 11 months after appearing in a Superbowl. The Cowboys fired Barry Switzer with a 40-24 record. 8-8 has gotten some coaches fired and others COTY votes.

In LaFleur's case, he's coming off one of the most disappointing seasons in recent memory in Green Bay. His inability to win anything with Rodgers is hanging over his head. Now, he has his controversial, hand-picked successor lined up after 3 years of being tutored. You really don't understand how a 5-12 year with an overwhelmed Jordan Love would get him fired?

[Bootz]

On the contrary, LaFluer is 47-19 through 4 years. Yet you somehow place him in more hot water than, again, coaches who have performed much worse than him. I'd say it's almost as if you have it out for some coaches.

You really don't understand that all situations - and individuals - aren't created equally? The Raiders fired Bill Callahan 11 months after appearing in a Superbowl. The Cowboys fired Barry Switzer with a 40-24 record. 8-8 has gotten some coaches fired and others COTY votes.

In LaFleur's case, he's coming off one of the most disappointing seasons in recent memory in Green Bay. His inability to win anything with Rodgers is hanging over his head. Now, he has his controversial, hand-picked successor lined up after 3 years of being tutored. You really don't understand how a 5-12 year with an overwhelmed Jordan Love would get him fired?

I do understand that you purposely given these hypothetical situations that may happen but most likely won't nor can't be proven. But to make yourself appear smarter than you actually are you make definitive statements because you know there's nothing to lose. In the end you're rarely proven right or wrong. But you can stick your chest out knowing the bullshit you spout will be forgotten sooner or later.

And worse than Mills you had to go back
20+ years to find relatable examples. Strong, kiddo.

[Snake]

I’m curious what happens if Jordan Love is below average to bad, and the Packers are mediocre to bad next season.

Love is not under contract after this season. Deep QB class coming out. Who knows what the QB market will look like next season.

Very interesting.

[mdb1958]

If we do indeed fire Bowles, I would like a younger offensive coach with the idea of rebuilding/overhauling the offense in mind. I don’t think a college coach is the right way to go though.

Might find one in a tent city somewhere, just looking for a break.

[Grahamburn]

Canales sure is handsome though.

[Bootz]

Canales sure is handsome though.

Prerequisite #2 to being hired as an NFL HC.

[Grahamburn]

So, what gets Bowles fired? 8-9? Or is it a combination of factors? Some 8-9 seasons look way better than others. I'd think if he goes 8-9 with an offensive improvement and defensive consistency he's probably safe for another year.

With what it sounds like reading the tea leaves we're going to play to the defense and then hope the offense doesn't turn it over, which is a recipe for disaster.

[Navybuc]

So, what gets Bowles fired? 8-9? Or is it a combination of factors? Some 8-9 seasons look way better than others. I'd think if he goes 8-9 with an offensive improvement and defensive consistency he's probably safe for another year.

With what it sounds like reading the tea leaves we're going to play to the defense and then hope the offense doesn't turn it over, which is a recipe for disaster.

As I said above, no Bucs coach has survived two straight losing seasons (except Gruden’s free SB pass in 03-04). Therefore, I expect him to have to win 9 games or else he’s gonna have to have a good reason for being the exception to history.

[MJW]

So, what gets Bowles fired? 8-9? Or is it a combination of factors? Some 8-9 seasons look way better than others. I'd think if he goes 8-9 with an offensive improvement and defensive consistency he's probably safe for another year.

With what it sounds like reading the tea leaves we're going to play to the defense and then hope the offense doesn't turn it over, which is a recipe for disaster.

It's hard to say. I don't think OBP has an exact number (I don't think many organizations really do.)

If we're 8-9, there are very few non-competitive losses, some of the youngsters show development, and there's a sense filling holes will make an immediate difference, he probably keeps his job.

If we're 8-9 like we were last year - outclassed against too many good opponents, playing down to too many lousy ones - but we have a lot of luck and a friendly schedule - I still think the rebuild commences.

That said...we went 8-9 with Tom Brady last year and we lost more than we gained on the roster. Not expecting it.

[13F11B]

So, what gets Bowles fired? 8-9? Or is it a combination of factors? Some 8-9 seasons look way better than others. I'd think if he goes 8-9 with an offensive improvement and defensive consistency he's probably safe for another year.

With what it sounds like reading the tea leaves we're going to play to the defense and then hope the offense doesn't turn it over, which is a recipe for disaster.

It all depends on how that record unfolds.

win 2 of the first 7 and you likely get a full season (2-5). Go 6-4 over the last 10 (8-9) while showing growth with new players and you likely get another year.

Go 6-4 to start the year and end 2-7 you likely get canned.

[Doctor]

So, what gets Bowles fired? 8-9? Or is it a combination of factors? Some 8-9 seasons look way better than others. I'd think if he goes 8-9 with an offensive improvement and defensive consistency he's probably safe for another year.

With what it sounds like reading the tea leaves we're going to play to the defense and then hope the offense doesn't turn it over, which is a recipe for disaster.

As I said above, no Bucs coach has survived two straight losing seasons (except Gruden’s free SB pass in 03-04). Therefore, I expect him to have to win 9 games or else he’s gonna have to have a good reason for being the exception to history.

Gee, Bowles should've left Brady in during a meaningless game to avoid "a losing seasons". I'm sure that would've gone over well.

[Navybuc]

As I said above, no Bucs coach has survived two straight losing seasons (except Gruden’s free SB pass in 03-04). Therefore, I expect him to have to win 9 games or else he’s gonna have to have a good reason for being the exception to history.

Gee, Bowles should've left Brady in during a meaningless game to avoid "a losing seasons". I'm sure that would've gone over well.

You can spin it how you want but a loss is a loss. And frankly, we didn’t look like a winning team last year so I don’t think anyone here (except maybe you) will defend Bowles and say last year was an acceptable season. Last year sucked. We had no deserving of being in the playoffs. Dallas absolutely whooped our ass on national TV.

[Selmon Rules]

If we look as bad as we did last year, he's gonna have some 'splaining to do

I don't know how we progress with the players we have this year but there has to be a change in direction

[MJW]

Gee, Bowles should've left Brady in during a meaningless game to avoid "a losing seasons". I'm sure that would've gone over well.

You can spin it how you want but a loss is a loss. And frankly, we didn’t look like a winning team last year so I don’t think anyone here (except maybe you) will defend Bowles and say last year was an acceptable season. Last year sucked. We had no deserving of being in the playoffs. Dallas absolutely whooped our ass on national TV.

Let me put a finer point on it:

Last season was the most disappointing season I've experienced in 35+ years as a Bucs fan, and I can't think of many new coaches who inherited better opportunities and did less with them. He never should have been hired based on his disaster tenure with the Jets, but it was a Bruce Arians going away present and everybody goddamn well knows it. The fact he's back for another year because something something Byron Leftwich makes me want to puke.

[Four Verticals]

Last season was the most disappointing season I've experienced in 35+ years as a Bucs fan

Really? That explains the constant anger in your posts I guess.

I thought last year a cluster fuck of mammoth proportions from the second Brady announced his return. I never felt he was into it and he certainly demonstrated that at times during the off season, pre-season and actual season. The Bucs moves were all made to appease his return and attempt to make it happen again which I never thought were realistic. In a sense the team was left with two choices which were to somehow not take him back or to go all in. I don't see an in-between that was realistic. Our season would have likely been worse but the franchise currently in better shape had Brady not come back and all the moves which were made were not.

Throw in other issues such as the coaching change, a couple of injuries to the wrong guys and the season worked out to a pretty decent degree the way I thought it would.

As far as Bowles is concerned being retained after this season, I think he's more on the bubble than some apparently do and it will take a pretty poor season (which I expect btw) for him to be dumped after the season. 3-14/5-12 something like that. Anything more than that and he very well may be back.

[MJW]

Last season was the most disappointing season I've experienced in 35+ years as a Bucs fan

Really? That explains the constant anger in your posts I guess.

I thought last year a cluster fuck of mammoth proportions from the second Brady announced his return. I never felt he was into it and he certainly demonstrated that at times during the off season, pre-season and actual season. The Bucs moves were all made to appease his return and attempt to make it happen again which I never thought were realistic. In a sense the team was left with two choices which were to somehow not take him back or to go all in. I don't see an in-between that was realistic. Our season would have likely been worse but the franchise currently in better shape had Brady not come back and all the moves which were made were not.

Throw in other issues such as the coaching change, a couple of injuries to the wrong guys and the season worked out to a pretty decent degree the way I thought it would.

As far as Bowles is concerned being retained after this season, I think he's more on the bubble than some apparently do and it will take a pretty poor season (which I expect btw) for him to be dumped after the season. 3-14/5-12 something like that. Anything more than that and he very well may be back.

I could have understood a transition period with everything going on this offseason. But it was Bowles's job from that point to pull it together. Instead, things got worse and more dysfunctional the longer Arians faded from memory and the Bowles Way sunk in. The crowning achievement was the utter debacle in our house against a mid Cowboys team.