In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

Draftbuzz has Gonzalez 40 at 4.32

The tackles will probably be snatched but what do you think of Skoronski.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by BucsNBills »

I'm usually against drafting RBs in the 1st, by Bijan is truly a special and elite player. Which, if anyone hasn't noticed, we're getting pretty thin at the Special and Elite player department.

Chances are it will be a moot point because he'll likely be gone by the time we're on the clock, but if he's there at 19+, and Licht pulls the trigger, I won't be mad.

This isn't a great tackle class, or a great Oline class in general, so taking a special RB over the 3rd best Tackle in a weak draft class will probably be better for us in the long run.

IMHO of course.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by acmillis »

BucsNBills wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:16 am I'm usually against drafting RBs in the 1st, by Bijan is truly a special and elite player. Which, if anyone hasn't noticed, we're getting pretty thin at the Special and Elite player department.

Chances are it will be a moot point because he'll likely be gone by the time we're on the clock, but if he's there at 19+, and Licht pulls the trigger, I won't be mad.

This isn't a great tackle class, or a great Oline class in general, so taking a special RB over the 3rd best Tackle in a weak draft class will probably be better for us in the long run.

IMHO of course.
...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by BucsNBills »

acmillis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:40 am
BucsNBills wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:16 am I'm usually against drafting RBs in the 1st, by Bijan is truly a special and elite player. Which, if anyone hasn't noticed, we're getting pretty thin at the Special and Elite player department.

Chances are it will be a moot point because he'll likely be gone by the time we're on the clock, but if he's there at 19+, and Licht pulls the trigger, I won't be mad.

This isn't a great tackle class, or a great Oline class in general, so taking a special RB over the 3rd best Tackle in a weak draft class will probably be better for us in the long run.

IMHO of course.
...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
We get Jensen back next year, which will help. We can also use 2nd and 3rd round picks to add to the interior.

Normally I agree about not taking a RB, but like I said, Bijan is special. He can be used damn near like Deebo Samuel if we wanted due to his size, speed, route running, and catching ability.

Also, we're not just drafting for 2023, we're drafting for the next era of Bucs football. Part of that is acquiring special players that will comprise the core nucleus of players we'll use to be competitive going forward. We also didn't "need" Mike Evans when we drafted him. Who would throw to him? Who would block for the QB we didn't have to throw him the ball? Yet we took him anyway and it was the right choice.

We're also going to be drafting (hopefully) in the mid 20s which isn't that bad of a spot to take someone like Bijan.

If you disagree that's cool. Like I said, I doubt it will be a decision we get to make because he'll likely be gone by the time we're selecting. Nor will I pound the table for him, but if we take someone of Robinsons pedigree, I won't complain.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Navybuc »

BucsNBills wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:51 am
acmillis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:40 am

...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
We get Jensen back next year, which will help. We can also use 2nd and 3rd round picks to add to the interior.

Normally I agree about not taking a RB, but like I said, Bijan is special. He can be used damn near like Deebo Samuel if we wanted due to his size, speed, route running, and catching ability.

Also, we're not just drafting for 2023, we're drafting for the next era of Bucs football. Part of that is acquiring special players that will comprise the core nucleus of players we'll use to be competitive going forward. We also didn't "need" Mike Evans when we drafted him. Who would throw to him? Who would block for the QB we didn't have to throw him the ball? Yet we took him anyway and it was the right choice.

We're also going to be drafting (hopefully) in the mid 20s which isn't that bad of a spot to take someone like Bijan.

If you disagree that's cool. Like I said, I doubt it will be a decision we get to make because he'll likely be gone by the time we're selecting. Nor will I pound the table for him, but if we take someone of Robinsons pedigree, I won't complain.
Next year is very deep at the RB position. TCU’s Evans and Bama’s Gibbs are also guys I’d take a strong look at in round 2.

I still like Mayer from ND, and I’m not just saying that as an ND fan. I think the guy is a unique TE that has all the tools to be dominant at his position, and this team is missing a good TE. Sorry…I’m not sold on Otton. Mayer has Gronk-like ability and is a great run blocker. He will be one of the top 3 TEs in the game in a couple years.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Phantom »

I wouldn't draft a RB in first 4 round
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Notre Dame uses Meyers way more than other teams use theirs.

Jamal Turner 29 receptions for 8 TD's.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Doctor »

acmillis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:40 am
BucsNBills wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:16 am I'm usually against drafting RBs in the 1st, by Bijan is truly a special and elite player. Which, if anyone hasn't noticed, we're getting pretty thin at the Special and Elite player department.

Chances are it will be a moot point because he'll likely be gone by the time we're on the clock, but if he's there at 19+, and Licht pulls the trigger, I won't be mad.

This isn't a great tackle class, or a great Oline class in general, so taking a special RB over the 3rd best Tackle in a weak draft class will probably be better for us in the long run.

IMHO of course.
...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
Look what Breece Hall was doing behind the Jets awful OL. You know the guy we probably should've drafted but didn't because "you don't take a guy high".... same with Dalvin Cook, remember that? You know Licht still does.
Or Derrick Henry.
Or Johnathan Taylor.
Or Joe Mixon.
Or Nick Chubb.

Pretty much all the top rushers today were drafted in the top 50.

But sure, lets pass on Bijan, who is EXACTLY what this offense needs... because we keep telling ourselves year after year we'll just find one of the late round gems instead.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:26 am
acmillis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:40 am

...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
Look what Breece Hall was doing behind the Jets awful OL. You know the guy we probably should've drafted but didn't because "you don't take a guy high".... same with Dalvin Cook, remember that? You know Licht still does.
Or Derrick Henry.
Or Johnathan Taylor.
Or Joe Mixon.
Or Nick Chubb.

Pretty much all the top rushers today were drafted in the top 50.

But sure, lets pass on Bijan, who is EXACTLY what this offense needs... because we keep telling ourselves year after year we'll just find one of the late round gems instead.


By gully - now the Jets can draft him!
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by acmillis »

Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:26 am
acmillis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:40 am

...and who will be blocking for that "special RB?" If we can't block, Sweetness couldn't run behind our line. Never....ever take a rb high....ever.
Look what Breece Hall was doing behind the Jets awful OL. You know the guy we probably should've drafted but didn't because "you don't take a guy high".... same with Dalvin Cook How many SB rings does he have?, remember that? You know Licht still does.
Or Derrick Henry. How many SB rings does he have?
Or Johnathan Taylor. How many SB rings does he have?
Or Joe Mixon. How many SB rings does he have?
Or Nick Chubb. How many SB rings does he have?

Pretty much all the top rushers today were drafted in the top 50.

But sure, lets pass on Bijan, who is EXACTLY what this offense needs... because we keep telling ourselves year after year we'll just find one of the late round gems instead.
See my questions in bold. You pay a RB and you have less money to spend elsewhere on MUCH, MUCH more important positions.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Doctor »

Okay, so you don't pay a RB and you don't draft one high.... so we'll just try for a one in a thousand gem late round gem... again...
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:56 pm Okay, so you don't pay a RB and you don't draft one high.... so we'll just try for a one in a thousand gem late round gem... again...
These dudes are leading the league in YPC:
Khalil Herbert - 6th Round Pick
Aaron Jones - 5th Round Pick
Tony Pollard - 4th Round Pick
Travis Etienne - 1st Round Pick
Nick Chubb - 2nd Round Pick
Miles Sanders - 2nd Round Pick
Josh Jacobs - 1st Round Pick
Jeff Wilson Jr. - Undrafted
Cordarelle Patterson - 1st Round Pick
Tyler Allgeier - 5th Round Pick
Rhamondre Stevenson - 4th Round Pick
Raheem Mostert - Undrafted
Isiah Pacheco - 7th Round Pick
Kenneth Walker - 2nd Round Pick

Of the top 14 RBs in YPC you have 3 first rounds, 3 second rounders, 0 3's, 2 4s, 2 5s, 1 6, 1 7, and two undrafted guys. RBs are a dime/dozen and the data backs it up. Of these 14, it looks like there are 8 that were taken 8 out of 14 "one in a thousand" late round gems (4th round or later).
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Snake »

You really don’t spend a pick on a running back in the first round unless they’re quite special. They have been NERFED.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Taylor was special. Hall was special. Bijan could be special.

But sure, lets pretend Herbert is the truth.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:22 pm Taylor was special. Hall was special. Bijan could be special.

But sure, lets pretend Herbert is the truth.
I wouldn't call either one "special." They were both very good prospects.

For the purposes of this discussion, in the last 23 drafts, I'd say Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Reggie Bush, Todd Gurley, Darren McFadden, and Saquan Barkley are the only RB prospects I'd have called "special" heading into the draft. And the latest any of those guys were drafted was Gurley going 10th because he was coming off a major knee injury. Even in the league as it's currently designed, a "special" running back will still go in top 10 pretty consistently.

Robinson...he's not on that level, though he is probably going to go somewhere in the middle of the round. And if it's a good situation, he'll have a very good career.

For us, taking a RB with our current trajectory would be buttfucking insane. It would be like the Oakland As paying Edwin Diaz their entire $20 mil free agent budget to be their closer when they're going to be down in the 9th 100 times next season. It would be like rebuilding a car and buying a supercharger first. A bad, rebuilding team expending that kind of draft capital for a running back is malpractice.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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If Tom was passing to him I do wonder how that would turn out.

Small sample but 16 yards a catch is pretty impressive.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

If he doesnt go 5th overall and someone gives us a good 1st rounder for DS and a 4th for Vaughn - I would think hard on it.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by BucsNBills »

MJW wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:37 am
Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:22 pm Taylor was special. Hall was special. Bijan could be special.

But sure, lets pretend Herbert is the truth.
I wouldn't call either one "special." They were both very good prospects.

For the purposes of this discussion, in the last 23 drafts, I'd say Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Reggie Bush, Todd Gurley, Darren McFadden, and Saquan Barkley are the only RB prospects I'd have called "special" heading into the draft. And the latest any of those guys were drafted was Gurley going 10th because he was coming off a major knee injury. Even in the league as it's currently designed, a "special" running back will still go in top 10 pretty consistently.

Robinson...he's not on that level, though he is probably going to go somewhere in the middle of the round. And if it's a good situation, he'll have a very good career.

For us, taking a RB with our current trajectory would be buttfucking insane. It would be like the Oakland As paying Edwin Diaz their entire $20 mil free agent budget to be their closer when they're going to be down in the 9th 100 times next season. It would be like rebuilding a car and buying a supercharger first. A bad, rebuilding team expending that kind of draft capital for a running back is malpractice.
Bijan is truly special though. He's the highest rated PFF RB they've ever graded. His size, speed, and incredible cutting ability allows him to overcome Oline issues. You then tack on his ability to catch the ball, and he's truly a difference maker.

And given how we've spent our first round picks lately, I'd gladly take Bijan Robinson over JTS and Logan Hall.

edit: And let's not even talk about our 2nd rnd picks, which have been used on the likes of Kyle Trash and luke goedeke, one of which has dressed for games one time and the other is benched.

Rebuilding or not, we need elite talent wherever we can find it, because the cupboard is becoming bare in that department very quickly.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by uscbucsfan »

BucsNBills wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:27 am
MJW wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:37 am

I wouldn't call either one "special." They were both very good prospects.

For the purposes of this discussion, in the last 23 drafts, I'd say Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Reggie Bush, Todd Gurley, Darren McFadden, and Saquan Barkley are the only RB prospects I'd have called "special" heading into the draft. And the latest any of those guys were drafted was Gurley going 10th because he was coming off a major knee injury. Even in the league as it's currently designed, a "special" running back will still go in top 10 pretty consistently.

Robinson...he's not on that level, though he is probably going to go somewhere in the middle of the round. And if it's a good situation, he'll have a very good career.

For us, taking a RB with our current trajectory would be buttfucking insane. It would be like the Oakland As paying Edwin Diaz their entire $20 mil free agent budget to be their closer when they're going to be down in the 9th 100 times next season. It would be like rebuilding a car and buying a supercharger first. A bad, rebuilding team expending that kind of draft capital for a running back is malpractice.
Bijan is truly special though. He's the highest rated PFF RB they've ever graded. His size, speed, and incredible cutting ability allows him to overcome Oline issues. You then tack on his ability to catch the ball, and he's truly a difference maker.

And given how we've spent our first round picks lately, I'd gladly take Bijan Robinson over JTS and Logan Hall.

edit: And let's not even talk about our 2nd rnd picks, which have been used on the likes of Kyle Trash and luke goedeke, one of which has dressed for games one time and the other is benched.

Rebuilding or not, we need elite talent wherever we can find it, because the cupboard is becoming bare in that department very quickly.
Blake Corum has a higher grade than Bijan, but PFF has only graded college players since 2014.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Cheb »

I really like Bijan Robinson and think that he has Pro Bowl potential as a rookie. I think that he'd be well-worth a first round selection, somewhere in the middle to late first round.

THAT SAID, I don't think that drafting a running back in the first round would be a smart use of limited draft capital for the Buccaneers this offseason. When I think about the 2022 season, the lack of talent at running back was not the thing holding this team back. Moreover, I am a big believer in Rachaad White as a starter moving forward, and we still have Lenny under contract for better or worse.

Adding another midround running back could be argued to be jurisprudence. The first round however is a bit strong for me.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Cheb wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:38 pm I really like Bijan Robinson and think that he has Pro Bowl potential as a rookie. I think that he'd be well-worth a first round selection, somewhere in the middle to late first round.

THAT SAID, I don't think that drafting a running back in the first round would be a smart use of limited draft capital for the Buccaneers this offseason. When I think about the 2022 season, the lack of talent at running back was not the thing holding this team back. Moreover, I am a big believer in Rachaad White as a starter moving forward, and we still have Lenny under contract for better or worse.

Adding another midround running back could be argued to be jurisprudence. The first round however is a bit strong for me.
In hindsight could it look like a bad move - it prolly will but - do we only have six picks?
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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MJW wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:37 am
Doctor wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:22 pm Taylor was special. Hall was special. Bijan could be special.

But sure, lets pretend Herbert is the truth.
I wouldn't call either one "special." They were both very good prospects.

For the purposes of this discussion, in the last 23 drafts, I'd say Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Reggie Bush, Todd Gurley, Darren McFadden, and Saquan Barkley are the only RB prospects I'd have called "special" heading into the draft. And the latest any of those guys were drafted was Gurley going 10th because he was coming off a major knee injury. Even in the league as it's currently designed, a "special" running back will still go in top 10 pretty consistently.

Robinson...he's not on that level, though he is probably going to go somewhere in the middle of the round. And if it's a good situation, he'll have a very good career.

For us, taking a RB with our current trajectory would be buttfucking insane. It would be like the Oakland As paying Edwin Diaz their entire $20 mil free agent budget to be their closer when they're going to be down in the 9th 100 times next season. It would be like rebuilding a car and buying a supercharger first. A bad, rebuilding team expending that kind of draft capital for a running back is malpractice.
Wait wait wait... so you don't believe in drafting a RB high unless it's top 10 high. Sure. Makes sense.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

Sure. Makes sense.

Asset specific.

Also some player movement would and should happen with a move like that. And don't forget that asset will be looking to get paid.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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mdb1958 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:11 pm
Cheb wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:38 pm I really like Bijan Robinson and think that he has Pro Bowl potential as a rookie. I think that he'd be well-worth a first round selection, somewhere in the middle to late first round.

THAT SAID, I don't think that drafting a running back in the first round would be a smart use of limited draft capital for the Buccaneers this offseason. When I think about the 2022 season, the lack of talent at running back was not the thing holding this team back. Moreover, I am a big believer in Rachaad White as a starter moving forward, and we still have Lenny under contract for better or worse.

Adding another midround running back could be argued to be jurisprudence. The first round however is a bit strong for me.
In hindsight could it look like a bad move - it prolly will but - do we only have six picks?
We have a first, second and third. No fourth rounder, but likely an extra fifth as a comp pick. One sixth, two seventh rounders currently (one from the Jets), and likely a third seventh rounder as a comp pick.

A grand total of nine picks. If I were a clever man, I'd guess that we would use some of those as ammo to move up for juicy targets, as it's hard for nearly a fifth of your roster to be rookie draftees.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

I think we traded Grant Stuard and a 2023 7th rounder for the Colts 6th rounder.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Selmon Rules »

Willing to roll with White and Vaughn and draft OL to make their job easier. Even great backs will be mediocre behind a shit OL but an average back can look pretty good behind a pretty good to great OL
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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5th/7th round comps - remind me of who they were for?

Do we get something for JPP? Whitehead?
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by Cheb »

mdb1958 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm 5th/7th round comps - remind me of who they were for?

Do we get something for JPP? Whitehead?
https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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My point was not to run down Robinson. I wouldn't put him in that AD/Barkley class, but he's only a half-step below.

For many reasons, I don't really believe in drafting running backs that high. We can have that argument - again - if you guys want.

For our case specifically, drafting a running back in the first round would be mind boggling. It would be worse for me than drafting a kicker in the 2nd round, considering where we're at as a franchise.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by MJW »

Cheb wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:21 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm 5th/7th round comps - remind me of who they were for?

Do we get something for JPP? Whitehead?
https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks
We're going to be comp pick RICH in 2024.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

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Our first round draft pick - offense or defense?
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Yes
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by real bucs fan »

MJW wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:14 am My point was not to run down Robinson. I wouldn't put him in that AD/Barkley class, but he's only a half-step below.

For many reasons, I don't really believe in drafting running backs that high. We can have that argument - again - if you guys want.

For our case specifically, drafting a running back in the first round would be mind boggling. It would be worse for me than drafting a kicker in the 2nd round, considering where we're at as a franchise.
I still remember this argument when you said you’d rather take who’s there in the 4th than Kamara or Cook in the 2nd. We took mcNichols in the 4th.

In terms of who we take this year, depends where we’re picking. Zay Flowers would be a steal in the 2nd round and would bring much needed speed and suddenness to our offence.
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by mdb1958 »

real bucs fan wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:55 pm
MJW wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:14 am My point was not to run down Robinson. I wouldn't put him in that AD/Barkley class, but he's only a half-step below.

For many reasons, I don't really believe in drafting running backs that high. We can have that argument - again - if you guys want.

For our case specifically, drafting a running back in the first round would be mind boggling. It would be worse for me than drafting a kicker in the 2nd round, considering where we're at as a franchise.
I still remember this argument when you said you’d rather take who’s there in the 4th than Kamara or Cook in the 2nd. We took mcNichols in the 4th.

In terms of who we take this year, depends where we’re picking. Zay Flowers would be a steal in the 2nd round and would bring much needed speed and suddenness to our offence.


For comparison.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zay ... tonCollege

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/And ... -Princeton
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Re: In the first round of the 2023 NFL draft, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select...

Post by real bucs fan »

mdb1958 wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:06 pm
real bucs fan wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:55 pm

I still remember this argument when you said you’d rather take who’s there in the 4th than Kamara or Cook in the 2nd. We took mcNichols in the 4th.

In terms of who we take this year, depends where we’re picking. Zay Flowers would be a steal in the 2nd round and would bring much needed speed and suddenness to our offence.


For comparison.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zay ... tonCollege

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/And ... -Princeton
Zay Flowers to me is very AB like. Not big, but incredibly sudden in movement, highly nuanced as a receiver, and highly competitive for the ball. It’s a great combo.
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