Todd Bowles Head Coach Thread

[Kress]

You might not have ever been an athlete. I don't know, but this post doesn't make it sound like it.

Fun to play for doesn't necessarily mean soft. A good coach, who you respect, is the guy who pushes you, not the guy who pats you on the head.

I was thinking as if I’m the owner of a team. Players loved Raheem… do I (owner) keep him because the players love him?

If you are the owner, you keep whoever wins games because that equals more prime time and possibly some extra home games in the playoffs. You care about money, not the players' feelings.

Unfortunately.

[Doctor]

So why isn't McVay in the hot seat? The Rams are coming off a fresher SB, are in far worst shape, and yet...

McVay, in 5 full seasons, has a record of 55-26. He's been to the playoffs 4 times. He's been to two Superbowls, winning one. In those full seasons, he's never posted a losing record.

Bowles, in 4 full seasons, has a record of 24-40. He's never been to the playoffs. He's been in last place 3 of those 4 seasons, despite sharing the division with the (then) terrible Bills and Dolphins.

I'm going to say that's why.

So to be clear then, you are moving the goal posts from "what did you do to this superbowl team" to "what is your record as a HC".

If you were going to condemn a Bucs HC for what he did during his last gig, then why the fuck bother to ever hire a retread?

We all knew his record with the Jets for years. You're going to hire him and then make his time with the Jets the bulk of his report card?

Weak.

[BucsNBills]

McVay, in 5 full seasons, has a record of 55-26. He's been to the playoffs 4 times. He's been to two Superbowls, winning one. In those full seasons, he's never posted a losing record.

Bowles, in 4 full seasons, has a record of 24-40. He's never been to the playoffs. He's been in last place 3 of those 4 seasons, despite sharing the division with the (then) terrible Bills and Dolphins.

I'm going to say that's why.

So to be clear then, you are moving the goal posts from "what did you do to this superbowl team" to "what is your record as a HC".

If you were going to condemn a Bucs HC for what he did during his last gig, then why the fuck bother to ever hire a retread?

We all knew his record with the Jets for years. You're going to hire him and then make his time with the Jets the bulk of his report card?

Weak.

He never should've got the gig to begin with. This disastrous season demonstrates why, and his previous Jets HC experience further supports the claim that he's unfit to lead a team.

Lay off the Copium a bit Doc, you're getting high on your own supply.

[King Bootz]

McVay, in 5 full seasons, has a record of 55-26. He's been to the playoffs 4 times. He's been to two Superbowls, winning one. In those full seasons, he's never posted a losing record.

Bowles, in 4 full seasons, has a record of 24-40. He's never been to the playoffs. He's been in last place 3 of those 4 seasons, despite sharing the division with the (then) terrible Bills and Dolphins.

I'm going to say that's why.

So to be clear then, you are moving the goal posts from "what did you do to this superbowl team" to "what is your record as a HC".

If you were going to condemn a Bucs HC for what he did during his last gig, then why the fuck bother to ever hire a retread?

We all knew his record with the Jets for years. You're going to hire him and then make his time with the Jets the bulk of his report card?

Weak.

Bingo. The goal posts definitely move depending on who's been discussed. Although with MJW and other acknowledging that Bowles Jets track record should be taken into account, that sort of confirms he won't be fired after 1 season because the Glazers, Licht, everybody already knew what he did with the Jets. It was taken into consideration and he was still handed the job. So logically they wouldn't need to "evaluate" what he record was prior to being named HC here. That's just fan talk.

[King Bootz]

So to be clear then, you are moving the goal posts from "what did you do to this superbowl team" to "what is your record as a HC".

If you were going to condemn a Bucs HC for what he did during his last gig, then why the fuck bother to ever hire a retread?

We all knew his record with the Jets for years. You're going to hire him and then make his time with the Jets the bulk of his report card?

Weak.

He never should've got the gig to begin with.

But he did. The Glazers, Lichts, Bucs organization clearly disagree with you and their opinions are the only ones that matter.

[BucsNBills]

He never should've got the gig to begin with.

But he did. The Glazers, Lichts, Bucs organization clearly disagree with you and their opinions are the only ones that matter.

Signed, Urban Meyer

[King Bootz]

But he did. The Glazers, Lichts, Bucs organization clearly disagree with you and their opinions are the only ones that matter.

Signed, Urban Meyer

And what does that strawman have to do with this situation?

[BucsNBills]

Signed, Urban Meyer

And what does that strawman have to do with this situation?

Not a strawman. It points out that GMs and Owners signing off on a hiring doesn't mean the person they hired isn't unfit or that they didn't make a huge error.

Don't like the Urban Meyer example? How about Jeff Saturday? Or Hackett? Or Joe Judge? How about Matt Patricia? All clowns that had no buisness running a team but were "signed off" on by GMs and Owners.

Bowles is just another clown added to the list.

Edit: And what makes the Bowles hiring even worse is that at least the other guys proved they were clowns with their first hire. We already knew Bowles was a terrible HC but decided to gift him the job anyway.

[King Bootz]

And what does that strawman have to do with this situation?

Not a strawman. It points out that GMs and Owners signing off on a hiring doesn't mean the person they hired isn't unfit or that they didn't make a huge error.

Don't like the Urban Meyer example? How about Jeff Saturday? Or Hackett? Or Joe Judge? How about Matt Patricia? All clowns that had no buisness running a team but were "signed off" on by GMs and Owners.

Bowles is just another clown added to the list.

Edit: And what makes the Bowles hiring even worse is that at least the other guys proved they were clowns with their first hire. We already knew Bowles was a terrible HC but decided to gift him the job anyway.

Urban Meyer was fired for things that had little to do with the team performance and everyone knows it. That's why it's a strawman.

Hackett may still get fired but his team is in last place. Saturday has INTERIM in his job title, meaning it could be temporary. Judge, Patricia, both got multiple seasons at the helm. If Bowles fits into any of those categories it would be the most latter. He has no off field drama or locker room toxicity ala Urban. He's not in last place ala Hackett. He's not an interim HC ala Saturday. Teams do make changes but that doesn't mean it comes after 1 season with a HC.

Keep trying, kiddo.

[MJW]

McVay, in 5 full seasons, has a record of 55-26. He's been to the playoffs 4 times. He's been to two Superbowls, winning one. In those full seasons, he's never posted a losing record.

Bowles, in 4 full seasons, has a record of 24-40. He's never been to the playoffs. He's been in last place 3 of those 4 seasons, despite sharing the division with the (then) terrible Bills and Dolphins.

I'm going to say that's why.

So to be clear then, you are moving the goal posts from "what did you do to this superbowl team" to "what is your record as a HC".

If you were going to condemn a Bucs HC for what he did during his last gig, then why the fuck bother to ever hire a retread?

We all knew his record with the Jets for years. You're going to hire him and then make his time with the Jets the bulk of his report card?

Weak.

You: "Why should Sean McVay get a pass for this bad season when Todd Bowles isn't?
Me: "Because of this. This is the answer to your question."
You: "LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE MOVING THE GOALPOSTS."

[BucsNBills]

Not a strawman. It points out that GMs and Owners signing off on a hiring doesn't mean the person they hired isn't unfit or that they didn't make a huge error.

Don't like the Urban Meyer example? How about Jeff Saturday? Or Hackett? Or Joe Judge? How about Matt Patricia? All clowns that had no buisness running a team but were "signed off" on by GMs and Owners.

Bowles is just another clown added to the list.

Edit: And what makes the Bowles hiring even worse is that at least the other guys proved they were clowns with their first hire. We already knew Bowles was a terrible HC but decided to gift him the job anyway.

Urban Meyer was fired for things that had little to do with the team performance and everyone knows it. That's why it's a strawman.

Hackett may still get fired but his team is in last place. Saturday has INTERIM in his job title, meaning it could be temporary. Judge, Patricia, both got multiple seasons at the helm. If Bowles fits into any of those categories it would be the most latter. He has no off field drama or locker room toxicity ala Urban. He's not in last place ala Hackett. He's not an interim HC ala Saturday. Teams do make changes but that doesn't mean it comes after 1 season with a HC.

Keep trying, kiddo.

Idk bootz, there's just something that tells me you wouldn't be jumping on hand grenades had we hired Matt Patricia instead of Bowles, both of who are equally unfit to lead teams. I can't quite put my finger on the reason why, but I have a sneaking suspicion you'd be more critical of him for this disastrous season.

[MJW]

Urban Meyer was fired for things that had little to do with the team performance and everyone knows it. That's why it's a strawman.

They were 2-11 kiddo. Think he gets fired for his bullshit if they're 11-2?

[King Bootz]

Urban Meyer was fired for things that had little to do with the team performance and everyone knows it. That's why it's a strawman.

They were 2-11 kiddo. Think he gets fired for his bullshit if they're 11-2?

Prove to me otherwise. You're being obtuse.

Khan fired Meyer for the other stuff. That's why Urban is not getting paid for the remainder of his contract. IF it was just for the 2-11 record as you seem to want to believe it is, Urban would still be on the payroll but he isn't.

[King Bootz]

Urban Meyer was fired for things that had little to do with the team performance and everyone knows it. That's why it's a strawman.

Hackett may still get fired but his team is in last place. Saturday has INTERIM in his job title, meaning it could be temporary. Judge, Patricia, both got multiple seasons at the helm. If Bowles fits into any of those categories it would be the most latter. He has no off field drama or locker room toxicity ala Urban. He's not in last place ala Hackett. He's not an interim HC ala Saturday. Teams do make changes but that doesn't mean it comes after 1 season with a HC.

Keep trying, kiddo.

Idk bootz, there's just something that tells me you wouldn't be jumping on hand grenades had we hired Matt Patricia instead of Bowles, both of who are equally unfit to lead teams. I can't quite put my finger on the reason why, but I have a sneaking suspicion you'd be more critical of him for this disastrous season.

Patricia got 2+ seasons with Detroit. His 1st season wasn't horrible. That was a bad team but they started with promise. They got worse in his 2nd & 3rd years. If the needle trends down, then yes, make a change.

Do you really not get that?

[MJW]

They were 2-11 kiddo. Think he gets fired for his bullshit if they're 11-2?

Prove to me otherwise. You're being obtuse.

Khan fired Meyer for the other stuff. That's why Urban is not getting paid for the remainder of his contract. IF it was just for the 2-11 record as you seem to want to believe it is, Urban would still be on the payroll but he isn't.

I didn't say that was just one thing. You did kiddo.

[King Bootz]

Prove to me otherwise. You're being obtuse.

Khan fired Meyer for the other stuff. That's why Urban is not getting paid for the remainder of his contract. IF it was just for the 2-11 record as you seem to want to believe it is, Urban would still be on the payroll but he isn't.

I didn't say that was just one thing. You did kiddo.

You aren't saying much of anything. Urban was literally fired a day after a player told management he was kicking him in practice. That after the owner told him he'd have to "earn his trust". His record had nothing to do with the firing as you're trying to make the case that it does.

[13F11B]

I think Bowles is still very much coming into his own on what kind of HC he is going to be. MOST head coaches don't crush it out the gate you know, including BB. You learn a lot your first time around.
We're literally year one of his second time around and we're in agreement the failure here is on the other side. Again, unless he does some magic midseason firing he isn't "good HC material"? Come on.

Bowles was NOT good as the Jets head coach. That was his coming out-of-the-gate moment. So, you are hoping the Bowles will get it right in year two just like Bill did? Do you think Bowles will win the Super Bowl in his second year?

I have not seen anything from Bowles that leads me to believe that he is a different coach and got it. Also, Bill lucked into a ONCE in a lifetime QB. Do you think Bowles will have that luck?

[Buc2]

Arians said it himself. He stepped down when he did and recommended Bowles so Bowles could take over a great team that would give him a much greater chance at having success in his first year as HC than he would if he were to go to a team that already sucked.

That aged well.

[The Outsider]

Give me Herm Edwards, or give me death. /Blue

I'd love to see us fire Bowles and take a major shot at one of either Demeco Ryans, Brian Callahan, or (and I'm being completely serious here) Raheem Morris if he'd consider coming back.

Ryans and Morris because they have proven they can put together defenses, and Ryans was always someone who was noted for leadership during his playing days. His defense is carrying the 9ers to an extent right now. Morris has his past baggage with our organization but his failures here are almost entirely the organization's fault in that the man was far to inexperienced and immature to be a HC at the time but they wanted the cheap, easy option. I detailed all of this more in the other thread but suffice to say that out of all of our coaches between Gruden and Arians, Raheem Morris posted the best single season record we had. We just happened to miss the playoffs at 10-6 in a stacked NFC that year. His deficiencies, largely age and inexperience, have largely been rectified.

Brian Callahan because, one, his dad was a pretty good offensive mind and it seems to have rubbed off on the kid. Two, he's been around great QBs and developed some good ones during his time in the league and our team's biggest need is the development of a young quarterback. Only knock on him is that he's never called plays.

[Phantom]

He need to get better with the game adjustments and the game managing. He haven’t

[Phantom]

Give me Herm Edwards, or give me death. /Blue

I'd love to see us fire Bowles and take a major shot at one of either Demeco Ryans, Brian Callahan, or (and I'm being completely serious here) Raheem Morris if he'd consider coming back.

Ryans and Morris because they have proven they can put together defenses, and Ryans was always someone who was noted for leadership during his playing days. His defense is carrying the 9ers to an extent right now. Morris has his past baggage with our organization but his failures here are almost entirely the organization's fault in that the man was far to inexperienced and immature to be a HC at the time but they wanted the cheap, easy option. I detailed all of this more in the other thread but suffice to say that out of all of our coaches between Gruden and Arians, Raheem Morris posted the best single season record we had. We just happened to miss the playoffs at 10-6 in a stacked NFC that year. His deficiencies, largely age and inexperience, have largely been rectified.

Brian Callahan because, one, his dad was a pretty good offensive mind and it seems to have rubbed off on the kid. Two, he's been around great QBs and developed some good ones during his time in the league and our team's biggest need is the development of a young quarterback. Only knock on him is that he's never called plays.

What about Ken Dorsey? Josh Allen had Brian Daboll as his OC, and he brought in Ken Dorsey to fix Josh, look at Allen now

Ken Dorsey+Caleb Williams in 2024?

Look out NFL

[Snake]

Just because you’re good at fixing a quarterback doesn’t mean you’re a good head coach.

[Snake]

Just because you’re good at fixing a quarterback doesn’t mean you’re a good head coach.

this is sort of a microcosm of how hard it is finding a good NFL HC.

You can be really good at what you do as a coordinator. Wont necessarily translate to wins. You can be really good at molding guys at the most important position. Won’t necessarily translate to wins. You can be really good at forming relationships (Anthony Lynn). You get the picture.

I posted an article from ESPN on BZ. It mentioned an unnamed head coach who is currently successful and well respected in the NFL. He interviewed for a HC job. His first interview. About halfway through the interview he realized that the head coaching position entailed a lot more than he realized. He told the team he respected them for their time and that he was not ready for the job. Left the interview.

[tnbandwagoner1]

He never should've got the gig to begin with.

But he did. The Glazers, Lichts, Bucs organization clearly disagree with you and their opinions are the only ones that matter.

Au contraire...if we the lowly fans stop buying tickets, merchandise, etc., somehow I think those otherworldly superior beings you reference above might just take notice. And that is most decidedly on the horizon should those wonderful, munificent beings retain the current coaching staff past January.

[The Outsider]

Give me Herm Edwards, or give me death. /Blue

I'd love to see us fire Bowles and take a major shot at one of either Demeco Ryans, Brian Callahan, or (and I'm being completely serious here) Raheem Morris if he'd consider coming back.

Ryans and Morris because they have proven they can put together defenses, and Ryans was always someone who was noted for leadership during his playing days. His defense is carrying the 9ers to an extent right now. Morris has his past baggage with our organization but his failures here are almost entirely the organization's fault in that the man was far to inexperienced and immature to be a HC at the time but they wanted the cheap, easy option. I detailed all of this more in the other thread but suffice to say that out of all of our coaches between Gruden and Arians, Raheem Morris posted the best single season record we had. We just happened to miss the playoffs at 10-6 in a stacked NFC that year. His deficiencies, largely age and inexperience, have largely been rectified.

Brian Callahan because, one, his dad was a pretty good offensive mind and it seems to have rubbed off on the kid. Two, he's been around great QBs and developed some good ones during his time in the league and our team's biggest need is the development of a young quarterback. Only knock on him is that he's never called plays.

What about Ken Dorsey? Josh Allen had Brian Daboll as his OC, and he brought in Ken Dorsey to fix Josh, look at Allen now

Ken Dorsey+Caleb Williams in 2024?

Look out NFL

I wouldn't hate that. I also wouldn't hate Kellen Moore if we can snag him from Dallas and pair him with a DC type, preferably with some HC experience. Like a Jack Del Rio or Jim Schwartz type.

[MJW]

Watching the Jags last night...and stop me if this is a broken record...even though they didn't score a lot of points (in terrible weather, etc), they just had such a rhythm to their playcalling. Everything they did built on everything else they did. They broke tendencies whenever the Jets started to cheat. You genuinely didn't know what they were going to do based on their looks. And their TD drive was one of the best I've seen all season.

We're playing checkers here.

[IronDog]

Chinese Checkers, minus a few marbles

[Kress]

I've never understood Chinese Checkers. Why do they have to take a simple game and mess it all up?

[GreatTimes]

Watching the Jags last night...and stop me if this is a broken record...even though they didn't score a lot of points (in terrible weather, etc), they just had such a rhythm to their playcalling. Everything they did built on everything else they did. They broke tendencies whenever the Jets started to cheat. You genuinely didn't know what they were going to do based on their looks. And their TD drive was one of the best I've seen all season.

We're playing checkers here.

The Jags have something the Buc's don't, a strong running game. It is hard to keep a defense off balance when your offense is one demensional. To have a strong running game, a team needs a good offensive line. Buc's don't have that.

[IronDog]

I've never understood Chinese Checkers. Why do they have to take a simple game and mess it all up?

Probably a bunch of kids sitting around whining that Little Johnny and Timmy wouldn't let them have turns with regular checkers so Dad, or Mom, invented a version that 6 could play at once.

Bratty little kids!

[IronDog]

Watching the Jags last night...and stop me if this is a broken record...even though they didn't score a lot of points (in terrible weather, etc), they just had such a rhythm to their playcalling. Everything they did built on everything else they did. They broke tendencies whenever the Jets started to cheat. You genuinely didn't know what they were going to do based on their looks. And their TD drive was one of the best I've seen all season.

We're playing checkers here.

The Jags have something the Buc's don't, a strong running game. It is hard to keep a defense off balance when your offense is one demensional. To have a strong running game, a team needs a good offensive line. Buc's don't have that.

We have a great offensive line, what are you talking about? Just because a few of the pieces are broken, at the moment. Sheesh, talk about whinning little brats!

[The Outsider]

Watching the Jags last night...and stop me if this is a broken record...even though they didn't score a lot of points (in terrible weather, etc), they just had such a rhythm to their playcalling. Everything they did built on everything else they did. They broke tendencies whenever the Jets started to cheat. You genuinely didn't know what they were going to do based on their looks. And their TD drive was one of the best I've seen all season.

We're playing checkers here.

Doug Pedersen made Carson Wentz look like an MVP candidate. He's got one of the best offensive minds and some of the best play-calling ability in the league.

[King Bootz]

Watching the Jags last night...and stop me if this is a broken record...even though they didn't score a lot of points (in terrible weather, etc), they just had such a rhythm to their playcalling. Everything they did built on everything else they did. They broke tendencies whenever the Jets started to cheat. You genuinely didn't know what they were going to do based on their looks. And their TD drive was one of the best I've seen all season.

We're playing checkers here.

The Jags have something the Buc's don't, a strong running game. It is hard to keep a defense off balance when your offense is one demensional. To have a strong running game, a team needs a good offensive line. Buc's don't have that.

Jags also have a QB that can make plays with his legs. Pederson uses TLs running abilities in his playcalling. The Bucs don't have that luxury. It's becoming increasingly more difficult to scheme offensive game plans around immobile QBs.

You look around the league the number of teams with a statue at QB is 2: The Bucs & Colts. Now every QB isn't Lamar Jackson, but I'd say every other QB in the league has functional mobility with the exception of these 2 teams. And even Matt Ryan has a little bit of mobility.

[GreatTimes]

The Jags have something the Buc's don't, a strong running game. It is hard to keep a defense off balance when your offense is one demensional. To have a strong running game, a team needs a good offensive line. Buc's don't have that.

Jags also have a QB that can make plays with his legs. Pederson uses TLs running abilities in his playcalling. The Bucs don't have that luxury. It's becoming increasingly more difficult to scheme offensive game plans around immobile QBs.

You look around the league the number of teams with a statue at QB is 2: The Bucs & Colts. Now every QB isn't Lamar Jackson, but I'd say every other QB in the league has functional mobility with the exception of these 2 teams. And even Matt Ryan has a little bit of mobility.

Go back and watch the film of the Buc's/Chief's SB. Mahomes is the greatest escape artist in the history of the NFL. But because the Chiefs had lost their starting LT and LG, Mahomes had pressure on him all game long. Even with the best of scrambling QB's, you still need an offensive line that provides some protection.

[Snake]

With a win against the Panthers this week, Todd Bowles will be 17-17 as Buccaneers Head Coach. With two division titles (8-9, 9-8). Must be nice to coach in the worst division in football. Against a rookie QB, Desmond Ridder, and Derek Carr.

In Tampa, Bowles's teams are 3-11 against teams with winning records. and 1-6 in 2023 (at this time of posting).