College Prospects

This section is for discussing possible future Buccaneers, as well as college football.
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

BLT wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm Prime Haynesworth on this defense would be sick






We bleed on third down.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

BLT wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm Prime Haynesworth on this defense would be sick
I wouldn't say I see prime Haynesworth. I see a guy whose game is very Haynesworthian, and whether he becomes Good Haynesworth or Horrible Haynesworth is a matter of debate. His film is far more docile than the hype machine would have led me to believe.
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

TB
35.

Brandon Smith
LB Penn State
trade icon
TB
61.

Jermaine Johnson
EDGE Florida State
trade icon
TB
92.

Isaiah Thomas
EDGE Oklahoma
TB
95.

Zachary Carter
DT Florida
trade icon
TB
130.

Travis Jones
DT Connecticut
TB
164.

Steven Gilmore
CB Marshall
trade icon
TB
170.

Trey McBride
TE Colorado State
TB
176.

Kolby Harvell-Peel
S Oklahoma State
trade icon
TB
182.

DeAngelo Malone
EDGE Western Kentucky
trade icon
TB
248.

Logan Hall
DT Houston
TB
259.

Zyon McCollum
CB Sam Houston State
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MJW
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Re: College Prospects

Post by MJW »

Cheb wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:03 pm
BLT wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm Prime Haynesworth on this defense would be sick
I wouldn't say I see prime Haynesworth. I see a guy whose game is very Haynesworthian, and whether he becomes Good Haynesworth or Horrible Haynesworth is a matter of debate. His film is far more docile than the hype machine would have led me to believe.
Damn, Cheb bringing the hard truths.

I'm throwing another Husker out there - sort of.

Wan'Dale Robinson is the most dynamic/effective weapon we've had since Ameer Abdullah. He transferred out (like SO MANY others under Frost) and did work for Kentucky this year. He's 5'11 185, and he can comfortably line up as a traditional running back (especially in a spread), in the slot, and anywhere in-between. He's a perfect "satellite" type hybrid for today's game. He's not Alvin Kamara, but he could be a poor man's Kamara, which is still a helluva thing for a guy likely to go in the 3rd-4th.




I would love to target him as a potential 3rd down back to compliment Fournette going forward. Darden is similar, but Robinson can actually function as a running back.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

MJW wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:59 pm
Cheb wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:03 pm

I wouldn't say I see prime Haynesworth. I see a guy whose game is very Haynesworthian, and whether he becomes Good Haynesworth or Horrible Haynesworth is a matter of debate. His film is far more docile than the hype machine would have led me to believe.
Damn, Cheb bringing the hard truths.

I'm throwing another Husker out there - sort of.

Wan'Dale Robinson is the most dynamic/effective weapon we've had since Ameer Abdullah. He transferred out (like SO MANY others under Frost) and did work for Kentucky this year. He's 5'11 185, and he can comfortably line up as a traditional running back (especially in a spread), in the slot, and anywhere in-between. He's a perfect "satellite" type hybrid for today's game. He's not Alvin Kamara, but he could be a poor man's Kamara, which is still a helluva thing for a guy likely to go in the 3rd-4th.




I would love to target him as a potential 3rd down back to compliment Fournette going forward. Darden is similar, but Robinson can actually function as a running back.
I have long been of the opinion that physical measureables such as height and weight are largely irrelevant in the NFL. Most of the time, if you can play, you can play.

However, I make an exception to this rule with weight and NFL running backs. If you are less than 200 pounds, you cannot be a NFL running back, full stop. The reason for that is not because you can't hold up to the wear and tear that NFL runners have to push through, although that's probably also true. The reason I believe that is because eventually, you are going to be tasked with blocking a pass rusher, and it isn't always going to be a guy your size like a slot corner. An NFL defensive end will blow through a 185 pound running back like he was barely there, regardless of that back's strength or technique. Especially if you are a third down specialist, you NEED to be able to block. So for that reason, I'd have to nix the idea of Robinson as an NFL running back. He would get Tom Brady killed.

That said, I like the player and I agree that Robinson could be an interesting gadget player in the passing game, especially if/when he refined his route running, although one could argue that if Robinson can't be a running back for us and Darden does the same things that he can, what's the point.
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Whole new defense. 3 trade downs


TB
40. Travon Walker DT Georgia - eventual 300 pounder
trade icon
TB
60.Jermaine Johnson EDGE Florida State
TB
75.Kyler Gordon CB Washington
trade icon
TB
92.Isaiah Thomas EDGE Oklahoma - eventual 300 pounder
TB
130.Logan Hall DT Houston - eventual 300 pounder
TB
170.Coby Bryant CB Cincinnati
TB
179.Kolby Harvell-Peel S Oklahoma State
trade icon
TB
248.Cameron Thomas EDGE San Diego State
TB
259. Zyon McCollum CB Sam Houston State



Pick the 5 this DL replaces!
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Snake »

Bowers TE from Georgia is pretty damn good
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

Snake wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:10 pm Bowers TE from Georgia is pretty damn good
No kidding, and he's only a freshman.

He has future top-ten pick written all over him.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Snake »

Cheb wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:12 pm
Snake wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:10 pm Bowers TE from Georgia is pretty damn good
No kidding, and he's only a freshman.

He has future top-ten pick written all over him.
That thing is a freshman? Jesus
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

Snake wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:13 pm
Cheb wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:12 pm

No kidding, and he's only a freshman.

He has future top-ten pick written all over him.
That thing is a freshman? Jesus
Yep. True freshman.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by 13F11B »

Just read about a punter who seems like a generational talent. I would never recommend drafting a punter or place kicker but wow this guys is amazing.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... ket-newtab

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Re: College Prospects

Post by Selmon Rules »

At the end of the draft you'd have to consider him if he is still there though
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Cheb wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:03 pm
BLT wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm Prime Haynesworth on this defense would be sick
I wouldn't say I see prime Haynesworth. I see a guy whose game is very Haynesworthian, and whether he becomes Good Haynesworth or Horrible Haynesworth is a matter of debate. His film is far more docile than the hype machine would have led me to believe.

After Alabama he drops some. Hey Cheb isnt this going to be a really big (size wise) draft because of all the seniors going back.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Primeminister »

13F11B wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:49 pm Just read about a punter who seems like a generational talent. I would never recommend drafting a punter or place kicker but wow this guys is amazing.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... ket-newtab

I might draft him in the 5th-6th. He flips the field from anywhere. That’s a weapon.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by MJW »

I generally feel the same way about drafting punters that I do kickers, but not nearly to the same degree. There isn't nearly the same level of variance between college success and pro success as with a kicker. A kicker drafted in the 4th Round is no more likely to hit a kick than an Undrafted Kicker asked to hit the same kick, based on every piece of data we have. But a punter who is great in college is almost always great in the NFL. That's not the only issue I have with drafting kickers, but it's one of the bigger ones.

The other big one is - how much does a punter actually affect the game? The answer surprised me. There's actually a pretty huge variance between a top punter and a poor punter in terms of yardage over the course of the season. It's tough to evaluate because of all the ancillary factors (kicks that didn't have high nets but landed within the 5, for examples.) But if you have the best punter in the league versus the league average, you're probably looking at a net yardage advantage over the course of a season over 500. If a running back were worth 500 more scrimmage yards than average, that's something you'd pay attention to. Again, it's much more nuanced than that, but still. There's value there.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by MJW »

Cheb wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:45 am
MJW wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:59 pm

Damn, Cheb bringing the hard truths.

I'm throwing another Husker out there - sort of.

Wan'Dale Robinson is the most dynamic/effective weapon we've had since Ameer Abdullah. He transferred out (like SO MANY others under Frost) and did work for Kentucky this year. He's 5'11 185, and he can comfortably line up as a traditional running back (especially in a spread), in the slot, and anywhere in-between. He's a perfect "satellite" type hybrid for today's game. He's not Alvin Kamara, but he could be a poor man's Kamara, which is still a helluva thing for a guy likely to go in the 3rd-4th.




I would love to target him as a potential 3rd down back to compliment Fournette going forward. Darden is similar, but Robinson can actually function as a running back.
I have long been of the opinion that physical measureables such as height and weight are largely irrelevant in the NFL. Most of the time, if you can play, you can play.

However, I make an exception to this rule with weight and NFL running backs. If you are less than 200 pounds, you cannot be a NFL running back, full stop. The reason for that is not because you can't hold up to the wear and tear that NFL runners have to push through, although that's probably also true. The reason I believe that is because eventually, you are going to be tasked with blocking a pass rusher, and it isn't always going to be a guy your size like a slot corner. An NFL defensive end will blow through a 185 pound running back like he was barely there, regardless of that back's strength or technique. Especially if you are a third down specialist, you NEED to be able to block. So for that reason, I'd have to nix the idea of Robinson as an NFL running back. He would get Tom Brady killed.

That said, I like the player and I agree that Robinson could be an interesting gadget player in the passing game, especially if/when he refined his route running, although one could argue that if Robinson can't be a running back for us and Darden does the same things that he can, what's the point.
I think there are exceptions, or near exceptions - Danny Woodhead and Darren Sproles come to mind. But I understand your point. Here's the sticking point for me - willingness to block is at least as valuable as size, isn't it? I'm not saying Robinson is that guy (dunno), but Fournette is a minus blocker despite being 235 pounds. Sproles was a fantastic blocker at 190 (though he was oddly built.) CMC is 5'11 205 and one of the very best blockers in the league right now.

I wouldn't take issue with your point, but I don't see it as a full stop. I think it can be a matter of individual evaluation.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Phantom »

I think Aidan Hutchinson is better than Kayvon Thibodeaux. Just my opinion
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Re: College Prospects

Post by MJW »

Phantom wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:53 pm I think Aidan Hutchinson is better than Kayvon Thibodeaux. Just my opinion
Floor is much higher IMHO. Hutchinson, at worst, will be a useful and productive player in the Chris Long mold. Chances are he ends up, ironically, like a Bosa Brother.

Thibodeaux has a higher ceiling, though. He could be an 18 sack kind of player in the league in the right situation. I believe that.

I'd be hard-pressed to say they're not 1-2 in this draft. But a lot can change. I remember 2011, when Da'Quan Bowers was the potential #1 overall pick.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Request opinionated analysis.

DE'SHAAN DIXON - Norfolk St.

Zach VanValkenburg - Iowa

Jack Campbell - Iowa
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

@MJW , what are your thoughts on JoJo Domann as a Bucs prospect? Maybe as a core special reamer and eventual replacement and understudy for LVD in 2023?
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Kress »

Cheb wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:23 am a core special reamer

I'm calling dibs on that. I don't know for what yet, but I'm calling it.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by ATrain »

Dameon Pierce RB Florida. Same athletic profile and skillet as Kamara. Not getting a lot of hype and could be had in the 3rd.

Daxton Hill CB/Safety Michigan. Highly versatile and athletic secondary player that can function as a chess piece in the defense.

Christian Harris LB Alabama. Great cover LB that is a shoe-in replacement for LVD. Pairs with White to continue the trend of having a great LB tandem.

Edit: Pure fun pick - Drake London. If we keep Godwin, it would be fun watching Evans and London on the outside with Godwin in the slot. London is such a fun player to watch and I'd be delighted if he's our #1 pick even if going WR isn't the "correct" position to select given the context of the team
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Re: College Prospects

Post by kaimaru »

MJW wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:14 am
ATrain wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:40 am I really really really want Jordan Davis in a Bucs uniform. Him and Vea on the field together could shift our whole defense around to a base 2-4-5 three high safety look that would be hard to run against and give our defense great protection against deep passes.

@Nobody @Cheb

Thoughts on our base defense looking like this in 2022?

Vea Davis
JTS White David Shaq
CD3 Dean
AWJ JW Mike
He'd be a dream in the Kong Suh role in this scheme. But he's a Top 15 pick, probably Top 10. Possibly, with great workouts, Top 5. Unless he completely bombs the process AND we lose out, he's not falling to us.

Y'all need to watch my guy from UConn if you're looking to fill that spot. Travis Jones. 6'4 330. 88 tackles and 8 sacks his last 2 seasons. If he can commit to conditioning (he showed up to college over 360) he's going to be a monster.

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Doesn't Travis Jones play a zero technique? Are you wanting him to split time with Vea? What about Perrion Winfrey, DT Oklahoma? Might be available at the end of round 1, and could be a replacement for Suh. While he hasn't been used as a 3 technique, he is projected as a 3 technique in the NFL. 6'3 292 40 tackles, 6 sacks and 16.5 TFL in 2 seasons.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by kaimaru »

ATrain wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:11 am Dameon Pierce RB Florida. Same athletic profile and skillet as Kamara. Not getting a lot of hype and could be had in the 3rd.

Daxton Hill CB/Safety Michigan. Highly versatile and athletic secondary player that can function as a chess piece in the defense.

Christian Harris LB Alabama. Great cover LB that is a shoe-in replacement for LVD. Pairs with White to continue the trend of having a great LB tandem.

Edit: Pure fun pick - Drake London. If we keep Godwin, it would be fun watching Evans and London on the outside with Godwin in the slot. London is such a fun player to watch and I'd be delighted if he's our #1 pick even if going WR isn't the "correct" position to select given the context of the team
Kyren Williams, RB Notre Dame is someone I would like, but he probably won't last late 3rd round. He has some elusiveness. Good hands. Can catch. His frame might be smaller than you would want, but since we never pound the rock all game long then why not.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by ATrain »

Add Tyler Allgeier to the list. Dude has the same build and running style as Nick Chubb.

Also Treylon Burks WR Arkansas. Dude is a BEAST. He's got DK Metcalf levels of physical measurable. 6'3" 230lbs. Damn near a TE running around out there.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Are there other linebackers with Brandon Smiths speed?
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

@Cheb What can be done with Armani Rodgers - if anything?
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Cheb »

mdb1958 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:45 am @Cheb What can be done with Armani Rodgers - if anything?
Not much. He's certainly not a quarterback, and I doubt he has the quickness and athleticism to be a wide receiver. I don't think he's a draftable prospect.
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Can we reach a Jeffery Simmons and who are they?
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Re: College Prospects

Post by MJW »

mdb1958 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:01 pm Can we reach a Jeffery Simmons and who are they?
Do you mean in terms of a defensive lineman, or in terms of a guy with top five talent who falls because of injury?
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mdb1958
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

MJW wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:53 am
mdb1958 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:01 pm Can we reach a Jeffery Simmons and who are they?
Do you mean in terms of a defensive lineman, or in terms of a guy with top five talent who falls because of injury?

Well, it would need to be someone who could build up to or surprise to his level. I always hate the time talking about players we know will be on other teams.

I am also wondering who are the prime 260/270 candidates to beef up and move inside for us. I would take surprises there as well. These guys are going to grow in to men, we need some to play on our team.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Also, I would imagine there could be some heavy set boys who get their NFL papers and run with them harder than anyone would realize. They get infused to be around great talent, get stronger and earn more playing time.

We are in need of players who will exceed expectations.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Kress »

mdb1958 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:33 am We are in need of players who will exceed expectations.
Okay.
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Re: College Prospects

Post by mdb1958 »

Kress wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:46 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:33 am We are in need of players who will exceed expectations.
Okay.

Got an example from last years draft for us?
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Re: College Prospects

Post by Phantom »

What do you guys think of Matt Corral?
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