BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:43 am
If Flores was White, and not smeared by the Dolphins and Tua, he would have already been hired. Maybe first.
No doubt.
Fired first times HC rarely get a second HC gig off the bat, unless they are truly exceptional coaches or have an exceptional network.
Which of these two do you think apply to Flores and why?
Both. Because he overachieved with a bad team while being offered 100's of thousands of dollars to fail (overcame an extremely toxic environment). Network because he has a strong relationship with the GOAT coach.
Your turn... Brian Flores sued the NFL for racism. Also, he was fired from the Dolphins despite achieving a winning record with horrible QB play and a toxic owner. Which of these reasons do you think contributes to him only being a Rooney Rule candidate and not an actual candidate?
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:51 pm
Umm, Marty retired from the NFL after that and was 100 years old I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
No, he was fired by the Chargers after going 14-2 and he never got another job. That was the point. You bring up age. He was 63 at the time. Bruce Arians is 69. Belichick is 69. Pete Carroll is 70. Marty was younger than all of them and never got another job.
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:51 pm
Umm, Marty retired from the NFL after that and was 100 years old I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
No, he was fired by the Chargers after going 14-2 and he never got another job. That was the point. You bring up age. He was 63 at the time. Bruce Arians is 69. Belichick is 69. Pete Carroll is 70. Marty was younger than all of them and never got another job.
That was his first coaching job?
It’s not relatable to what’s being discussed in this thread. Just stop.
No, he was fired by the Chargers after going 14-2 and he never got another job. That was the point. You bring up age. He was 63 at the time. Bruce Arians is 69. Belichick is 69. Pete Carroll is 70. Marty was younger than all of them and never got another job.
That was his first coaching job?
It’s not relatable to what’s being discussed in this thread. Just stop.
Dude. Stop moving the goal post. Stop throwing out any bit of evidence that conflicts with your desired outcome. You need to deal with all the facts if you don't want to prejudice.
How about the Tony Dungy example? Care to deal with that?
@BLT Look dude. First, you make a quip about Marty retiring because he was 100. That proves to be wrong so you decide because it wasn't his first coaching gig it should be ignored. Then I ask you to address the fact that Dungy was fired and got a second job right away but you don't want to address that either.
Why? Because it doesn't fit your narrative. You are the one that needs to re-evaluate your position since it appears to be based on nothing more than false facts and emotion.
13F11B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:42 pm
@BLT Look dude. First, you make a quip about Marty retiring because he was 100. That proves to be wrong so you decide because it wasn't his first coaching gig it should be ignored. Then I ask you to address the fact that Dungy was fired and got a second job right away but you don't want to address that either.
Why? Because it doesn't fit your narrative. You are the one that needs to re-evaluate your position since it appears to be based on nothing more than false facts and emotion.
Just so we are clear... are you arguing that there is not a problem in the NFL with the process regarding minority candidates?
If so, you are the only one.
Also, Tony Dungy hasn't been black since Lionel Ritchie was with the Commodores. Tony Dungy also has nothing to do with this situation either.
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:46 pm
Just so we are clear... are you arguing that there is not a problem in the NFL with the process regarding minority candidates?
No, but some of the stuff people like you are bringing up is incorrect, irrelevant, and derails any meaningful discussion.
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:46 pm
Also, Tony Dungy hasn't been black since Lionel Ritchie was with the Commodores. Tony Dungy also has nothing to do with this situation either.
Sorry, but you are not the arbiter of who is or is not a minority.
You have not shown one single ounce of intelligence so, to be honest, I think you are just another 'puppet' account for one of the board troublemakers. You are simply here to rile up the board and derail any real conversation on the subject.
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:53 pm
Probably because they are not pulled away to lacrosse and Hockey when they are young like white people of similar stature and athletic ability.
yeah hockey and LACROSSE are pulling all of that elite football talent away. LMAO!
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:53 pm
Probably because they are not pulled away to lacrosse and Hockey when they are young like white people of similar stature and athletic ability.
yeah hockey and LACROSSE are pulling all of that elite football talent away. LMAO!
Do you have kids? Our best football players in the DC metro area are pulled out of tackle football right when they hit high school age and go to LAX.
Fired first times HC rarely get a second HC gig off the bat, unless they are truly exceptional coaches or have an exceptional network.
Which of these two do you think apply to Flores and why?
Both. Because he overachieved with a bad team while being offered 100's of thousands of dollars to fail (overcame an extremely toxic environment). Network because he has a strong relationship with the GOAT coach.
Your turn... Brian Flores sued the NFL for racism. Also, he was fired from the Dolphins despite achieving a winning record with horrible QB play and a toxic owner. Which of these reasons do you think contributes to him only being a Rooney Rule candidate and not an actual candidate?
Ass clown...
He overachieved. Cool story.
He had one season with a top ten defense and four abysmal OCs in three years. He reportedly tried to repeated circumvent his GM (but who knows now, prob just slander) and didn't play ball with the owner. Granted, his team's owner is a sleaze bag but if you're an owner you want loyalty more than principles.
I like Flores. I'm a Flores fan. But he's isn't exceptional. Leslie Frasier led a great defense in Minnesota, made the playoffs, but couldn't put together an offense as a HC and lost his job. He went back to being a DC. He's fielded a top 3 defense 3 out of 4 years now, still a DC. Flores isn't better than Leslie Frasier.
I know the NFL has some tax-exempt benefits, but seriously, how can the US Gov't get involved in who private corporations/companies hire - and why stop at African Americans? Asians, Hispanics are also minorities - this can get ridiculous. Women?
To my knowledge, only the league office is tax-exempt the teams all pay taxes. I think that it currently is not treated as a monopoly despite it being a monopoly from both an employee and customer perspective.
Both. Because he overachieved with a bad team while being offered 100's of thousands of dollars to fail (overcame an extremely toxic environment). Network because he has a strong relationship with the GOAT coach.
Your turn... Brian Flores sued the NFL for racism. Also, he was fired from the Dolphins despite achieving a winning record with horrible QB play and a toxic owner. Which of these reasons do you think contributes to him only being a Rooney Rule candidate and not an actual candidate?
Ass clown...
Belichick’s coaches tend to not do well after becoming a head coach. That’s more of a mark against Flores than one for him.
If rumors from Dolphins players are true, they won games in spite of Flores.
OneBuc wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:25 pm
I know the NFL has some tax-exempt benefits, but seriously, how can the US Gov't get involved in who private corporations/companies hire - and why stop at African Americans? Asians, Hispanics are also minorities - this can get ridiculous. Women?
Clearly you haven't been paying attn the last two years during the Kung Flu Regime.
Don't let Peter's ignorance steer you incorrectly. It goes back well before the current President. It has historically been both parties as well. In reality, the US government will only get involved when one party makes a claim that another party's behavior violated a US law. In the case of the Flores lawsuit, this would likely be the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That act was overwhelmingly voted for by Republicans and enjoyed support from a majority of Democrats.
It was such a great contribution the first time you really didn't need to echo it less than an hour later. But the mention of the "N word" does add dramatic effect.
We get it, if someone doesn't believe #TeamFlores they are a racist, amirite?
I said it again less than an hour later because people were getting even more comfortable.
You're not a racist if you don't believe Flores. However, if you dismiss what he says as hearsay, immediately accept the same hearsay from others, and litter your posts with bullshit like "woke" and "sjw", there are some red flags there.
I don't dismiss what Flores says and as I've stated I think mostly everyone agrees with the issue being raised (not enough black Head Coaches).
I'm skeptical that his lawsuit is not anything more than a way to signal in hopes of bringing about change. I don't think it's right to slander people professionally b/c they are just collateral damage in what a person might perceive as the greater good and advancing towards your goal.
My pushback is about the thought process/logic path one uses in arriving to certain conclusions, and more importantly imo how to correct what they perceive as an injustice. I did use the term "woke" when commenting on "anti-racism" b/c those two things are aligned imo. I don't remember using "sjw" in this thread but it's possible I suppose since it can be synonymous with "woke" depending on context.
Either way, "anti-racism" is a real methodology (beliefs and practices) and I was identifying it specifically in my post. Other than this post I believe I only used it one other time in this thread where I was elaborating on why I oppose it and why it seems to be relevant to Flores and his lawsuit.
BLT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:53 pm
Probably because they are not pulled away to lacrosse and Hockey when they are young like white people of similar stature and athletic ability.
Have you ever done any math or analysis of how many white men realize they cannot cut it as athletes in football and go all in on coaching from a very young age by becoming guys who carry water to becoming QC guys and rise up to become position coaches? They make peanuts for compensation despite putting in minimum 40 hour work weeks since training camp. There is no nepotism or influence with guys like that. Sean McVay is a great example of someone that came up that way and Flores is as well.
But this assumption that 60% of black players means 60% of black men are volunteering to spend at least a decade of their life to MAY BE become a STs coach of an NFL may simply not be true. Playing the game does not automatically make you a great teacher. This is true in my profession and many others, lots of scientists are terrible presenters and incapable of simplifying information.
Also all of your posts seem to operate in this reality that everything Flores is alleging is true and that is the starting point of discussion. I don't know the guy and don't trust him. People suffering from a strong case of victim complex can easily make up stuff since they are fighting for a self righteous cause. He thinks he should not have been fired and should have at least been re-hired right away. He is a good coach, but this is pathetic whining of the highest order.
OneBuc wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:25 pm
I know the NFL has some tax-exempt benefits, but seriously, how can the US Gov't get involved in who private corporations/companies hire - and why stop at African Americans? Asians, Hispanics are also minorities - this can get ridiculous. Women?
All NFL revenues are taxed. The league office specifically is tax-exempt b/c if not the government would be taxing the same dollar more than once. Which I can respect that some people are in favor of b/c they either have a hatred of corporations and/or believe in our (or any) government is/can be benevolent and fiscally efficient. I'm just not one of those people.
Also, the NFL is a private company, thus not publicly traded. So any influence the government could have is more limited as a result.
To clear things up, according to the letter of the law, the NFL League Office is the company that is actually tax-exempt, not the NFL as a whole. The NFL is comprised of 32 separate organizations – the teams – all of which pay taxes on their individual revenue. The NFL League Office is classified as a trade organization. As a trade organization, the NFL League Office’s primary purpose is to “further the industry or profession it represents.”
Interesting that the NBA or MLB doesn't have these issues.
I do love how Tuesday the NFL denied Flores' claims to the fullest and then 4 days lager Goodell sends out a memo saying the league will seek outside help to deal with their diversity issues.
Ship seems to have sailed though. It is what it is.
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:43 pm
Diversity amongst their managerial and coaching hires.
That's one way to look at it. There really isn't a big distinction between white and non-white representation in the league.
Another way would be to point out that roughly 7% of MLB players are African American, and management/leadership reflects this, and that's a big problem for baseball moving forward in this country.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
King Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:43 pm
Diversity amongst their managerial and coaching hires.
That's one way to look at it. There really isn't a big distinction between white and non-white representation in the league.
Another way would be to point out that roughly 7% of MLB players are African American, and management/leadership reflects this, and that's a big problem for baseball moving forward in this country.
I'm not even talking about African Americans in MLB. They have no shortage of Latino born managers and coaches. Sure, it's not an overwhelming abundance in comparison to white managers but you can make a case that it's reflective in a heavily Latino populated sport. They get opportunities annually, they are given chances to win, more importantly the pipeline is present.
NBA is a non issue. Something like 35-40% of the league head coaches are minority. Again like MLB the opportunities are present and guys aren't tossed into a trash heap if their 1st job doesn't net a championship.
The NFL has a problem and Goodell acknowledged as much.
You should have just left your example as NBA. MLB definitely has a problem, not to the degree that NFL has, but saying mlb has no issues in this regard is laughable.
