dead ball fouls - did we get screwed?

[Tnbandwagoner]

There was a game we lost during the regular season and which I and others on here felt was officiated corruptly - I don't recall whether it was the Saints, WFT or the Rams, though I think it was the Saints. One of the most glaringly egregious plays was when the opposing team was in the red zone on us and we intercepted a pass - but then it was negated because they called roughing the passer on Gholston for barely pushing the QB (after Gholston's helmet had been ripped off by an OL with no penalty called). I mention this play because I'd be willing to bet Gholston's push on the QB happened after the play had been blown dead; I know that it happened after the ball had been intercepted and the interceptor had downed it or been tackled. Going by the way they ruled against us Sunday, it still should have been our ball in that circumstance, with the penalty assessed to push us back fifteen yards from where we otherwise would've had the ball (five-yard-line if we intercepted in the end zone, or halfway to the goal line instead of fifteen otherwise). Is there something I'm missing here? Because in that case clearly they overturned the result of the play because of a dead-ball foul, whereas Sunday they did not.

It's funny also how pushing the QB, though said QB was not knocked to the ground or injured in any way, rose to the level of roughing, yet the official that was questioned Monday about not calling roughing when Miller bloodied Brady's lip with a helmet-to-head hit said that they felt that didn't rise to the level of roughing. Which brings me to another question: I thought helmet-to-head, or for that matter hits to the head of the quarterback, were illegal 100% of the time, regardless? I have seen games where the quarterback's helmet was barely bumped by a defensive player's arm and they called roughing; Miller led with his helmet and no call.

[Kress]

Not to mention that Leonard Floyd lined up in the neutral zone at least twice that I saw. By at least half a cleat. So blatant.

I also think I saw Vea get held, but I can't be sure.

Edit: On further review of the All 22, it was a hold.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Not to mention that Leonard Floyd lined up in the neutral zone at least twice that I saw. By at least half a cleat. So blatant.

I also think I saw Vea get held, but I can't be sure.

Edit: On further review of the All 22, it was a hold.

I wouldn’t be happy even if we had lost fair and square; the fact that we didn’t makes it worse. We were down four WRs and one of our OTs, with the replacement OT playing injured - and if the game had been called honestly we’d be playing in the NFCCG.

[MJW]

I'm not going there.

The refs didn't cost us this game. They outplayed us pretty thoroughly for probably 50 of 60 minutes in this thing. We had a blown coverage because of miscommunication by veteran players who should know better. We somehow schemed the Rams into single coverage on Cooper Kupp with the game on the line. We missed a makeable FG. Both our lines pretty much got their asses kicked. I could go on.

You can look at virtually any one-score game and make a case that the refs screwed the losing team in some way. I guarantee you TB12 and BA aren't blaming the refs right now.

[bucarican]

Nope, we got screwed because we couldn't kick the ball in bounds and our kick returner thought he was Devin Hester.

[Dread]

I'm not going there.

The refs didn't cost us this game. They outplayed us pretty thoroughly for probably 50 of 60 minutes in this thing. We had a blown coverage because of miscommunication by veteran players who should know better. We somehow schemed the Rams into single coverage on Cooper Kupp with the game on the line. We missed a makeable FG. Both our lines pretty much got their asses kicked. I could go on.

You can look at virtually any one-score game and make a case that the refs screwed the losing team in some way. I guarantee you TB12 and BA aren't blaming the refs right now.

This^^

We stopped the run well on defense and did a great job ripping the ball away for 4 takeaways. But as MJW stated we got outplayed for much of that game otherwise.

The helmet to helmet hit on Evans was certainly bad luck, but still the correct call b/c the ball had hit the ground before Weddle hit Evans. Had that ball still not hit the ground prior to Weddle's hit on Evans OR it not had been 4th down then the Bucs would've got kept possession with an automatic 1st down for the personal foul.

But that call was a microcosm of the Bucs day, the ball just wasn't bouncing our way. Even on that last Rams drive after we tied it 27, on their first play when we got the sack forcing them to use their last timeout the ball came loose as Stafford was going down. But it bounced right back up where Stafford could retain possession, but if that ball takes a different bounce there it's likely recovered by the Bucs defense already in FG range.

At the end of the day the better team on that day won the game. We couldn't protect Brady and we had two huge mental lapses in the secondary allowing Kupp to get open on downs/situations he shouldn't have been that far downfield.

[uscbucsfan]

" It's the ref's fault!!!"...said every delusional fan of every losing team.

[Kress]

On further review of the All 22, I just saw another hold.

[Tnbandwagoner]

" It's the ref's fault!!!"...said every delusional fan of every losing team.

Go ahead and refute any part of my original post for this thread. Then explain to me how it doesn't make a difference if one team is allowed to get away with penalties and the other one gets penalties called that normally are not (Brady getting called for unsportsmanlike for complaining about getting hit in the face with Miller's helmet).

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

[uscbucsfan]

" It's the ref's fault!!!"...said every delusional fan of every losing team.

Go ahead and refute any part of my original post for this thread. Then explain to me how it doesn't make a difference if one team is allowed to get away with penalties and the other one gets penalties called that normally are not (Brady getting called for unsportsmanlike for complaining about getting hit in the face with Miller's helmet).

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

Brady cussed out the ref. Allegedly called him a fucking dumbass. Not that I agree with getting a call, but it's within the ref's rights to throw a flag there.

Nothing occurred that made us lose the game. There was nothing really egregious outside of missing the helmet to helmet on Brady, which wouldn't have absolutely altered the game.

[Kress]

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

You really should have added in "flaccid."

[uscbucsfan]

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

You really should have added in "flaccid."

Caught that on the All-22 as well?

[Kress]

You really should have added in "flaccid."

Caught that on the All-22 as well?

The All-29. It shows the refs.

[uscbucsfan]

Caught that on the All-22 as well?

The All-29. It shows the refs.

I'm sure it went something like, "Make Brady curse at you then throw a flag, that'll ensure that the Rams win it all....also follow the rulebook exactly on a late personal foul. Then we can really fuck them over".

[Kress]

The All-29. It shows the refs.

I'm sure it went something like, "Make Brady curse at you then throw a flag, that'll ensure that the Rams win it all....also follow the rulebook exactly on a late personal foul. Then we can really fuck them over".

I'm sure it would have, but NFL films went out of its way to ensure that Hochuli wasn't miked up. They obviously have a stake in this, too.

[BLT]

I'm not going there.

The refs didn't cost us this game. They outplayed us pretty thoroughly for probably 50 of 60 minutes in this thing. We had a blown coverage because of miscommunication by veteran players who should know better. We somehow schemed the Rams into single coverage on Cooper Kupp with the game on the line. We missed a makeable FG. Both our lines pretty much got their asses kicked. I could go on.

You can look at virtually any one-score game and make a case that the refs screwed the losing team in some way. I guarantee you TB12 and BA aren't blaming the refs right now.

Yup, unlike our secondary, this post covers everything.

[BLT]

Go ahead and refute any part of my original post for this thread. Then explain to me how it doesn't make a difference if one team is allowed to get away with penalties and the other one gets penalties called that normally are not (Brady getting called for unsportsmanlike for complaining about getting hit in the face with Miller's helmet).

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

Brady cussed out the ref. Allegedly called him a fucking dumbass. Not that I agree with getting a call, but it's within the ref's rights to throw a flag there.

Nothing occurred that made us lose the game. There was nothing really egregious outside of missing the helmet to helmet on Brady, which wouldn't have absolutely altered the game.

Brady said he didn't cuss at the ref. Are you calling Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. a liar?

[uscbucsfan]

Brady cussed out the ref. Allegedly called him a fucking dumbass. Not that I agree with getting a call, but it's within the ref's rights to throw a flag there.

Nothing occurred that made us lose the game. There was nothing really egregious outside of missing the helmet to helmet on Brady, which wouldn't have absolutely altered the game.

Brady said he didn't cuss at the ref. Are you calling Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. a liar?

Yes, you can clearly read his lips, too. Before I heard what he said, I guessed it in the game thread.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Go ahead and refute any part of my original post for this thread. Then explain to me how it doesn't make a difference if one team is allowed to get away with penalties and the other one gets penalties called that normally are not (Brady getting called for unsportsmanlike for complaining about getting hit in the face with Miller's helmet).

You made a facile, fatuous, asinine reply to my thread that has no relevance to the actual truth of the matter.

Brady cussed out the ref. Allegedly called him a fucking dumbass. Not that I agree with getting a call, but it's within the ref's rights to throw a flag there.

Nothing occurred that made us lose the game. There was nothing really egregious outside of missing the helmet to helmet on Brady, which wouldn't have absolutely altered the game.

You didn't even address my original post, which dealt not with the hit to Brady but the roughness call on Evans. If that had been called like the dead-ball foul on Gholston was called in our first game against the Saints, we would have retained possession and would have been in the red zone; we would have gotten a field goal at a minimum, so that one penalty alone did indeed change the outcome of the game since we lost by a field goal.

Furthermore, to say there was nothing egregious when not one but three unsportsmanlike penalties were called against us in one game - I personally can't recall ever seeing that happen to this team or any other - is simply disingenuous, and grossly inaccurate. You may not want to admit that games are sometimes corruptly officiated, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens, and it happened to us last Sunday.

[uscbucsfan]

Brady cussed out the ref. Allegedly called him a fucking dumbass. Not that I agree with getting a call, but it's within the ref's rights to throw a flag there.

Nothing occurred that made us lose the game. There was nothing really egregious outside of missing the helmet to helmet on Brady, which wouldn't have absolutely altered the game.

You didn't even address my original post, which dealt not with the hit to Brady but the roughness call on Evans. If that had been called like the dead-ball foul on Gholston was called in our first game against the Saints, we would have retained possession and would have been in the red zone; we would have gotten a field goal at a minimum, so that one penalty alone did indeed change the outcome of the game since we lost by a field goal.

Furthermore, to say there was nothing egregious when not one but three unsportsmanlike penalties were called against us in one game - I personally can't recall ever seeing that happen to this team or any other - is simply disingenuous, and grossly inaccurate. You may not want to admit that games are sometimes corruptly officiated, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens, and it happened to us last Sunday.

Dread did and I did in a mocking way...By the rulebook, if it's after the play it counts to the next play which is how it was called.

That was the correct call.

Suh said he was going to fuck up Stafford for kicking him. I think that's fine in football, but the new rules with taunting cover that. Again, these aren't completely out of the blue calls or crooked, but they still sucked.

[Kress]

Suh said he was going to fuck up Stafford for kicking him. I think that's fine in football, but the new rules with taunting cover that. Again, these aren't completely out of the blue calls or crooked, but they still sucked.

Also, Stafford did not "kick" him. Certainly not the way Suh was playing it up.

[Tnbandwagoner]

You didn't even address my original post, which dealt not with the hit to Brady but the roughness call on Evans. If that had been called like the dead-ball foul on Gholston was called in our first game against the Saints, we would have retained possession and would have been in the red zone; we would have gotten a field goal at a minimum, so that one penalty alone did indeed change the outcome of the game since we lost by a field goal.

Furthermore, to say there was nothing egregious when not one but three unsportsmanlike penalties were called against us in one game - I personally can't recall ever seeing that happen to this team or any other - is simply disingenuous, and grossly inaccurate. You may not want to admit that games are sometimes corruptly officiated, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens, and it happened to us last Sunday.

Dread did and I did in a mocking way...By the rulebook, if it's after the play it counts to the next play which is how it was called.

That was the correct call.

Suh said he was going to fuck up Stafford for kicking him. I think that's fine in football, but the new rules with taunting cover that. Again, these aren't completely out of the blue calls or crooked, but they still sucked.

Neither you nor Dread addressed the fact that a dead-ball foul against us was called differently in the Saints game. You didn’t address it because you can’t explain it away and it proves that they could have called the play Sunday differently, because they already did so in the Saints game.

[uscbucsfan]

Neither you nor Dread addressed the fact that a dead-ball foul against us was called differently in the Saints game. You didn’t address it because you can’t explain it away and it proves that they could have called the play Sunday differently, because they already did so in the Saints game.

No, because without watching that play again, I cannot accurately assess. If the penalty occurred before or as turnover was taking place, it would reverse it.

It also doesn't change that the play Sunday was correct, regardless if that was a bad play call or not.

So it's not really relevant.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Neither you nor Dread addressed the fact that a dead-ball foul against us was called differently in the Saints game. You didn’t address it because you can’t explain it away and it proves that they could have called the play Sunday differently, because they already did so in the Saints game.

No, because without watching that play again, I cannot accurately assess. If the penalty occurred before or as turnover was taking place, it would reverse it.

It also doesn't change that the play Sunday was correct, regardless if that was a bad play call or not.

So it's not really relevant.

It's completely relevant because they use subjectivity and change the rules all the time. If they called it one way in October, and the team with the ball got to keep the ball as a result, that's precedent, and they should have called it that way Sunday.

Also, the mere fact that a penalty was called on Brady for profanity, which is not automatically dictated by the rulebook, and a penalty was not called on the same play for a helmet-to-head hit on Brady, said penalty which is automatically dictated by the rules and has no exceptions, is inarguable proof that there was corruption in the officiating for that game. We don't have proof of why the corruption was there; it could have been Vegas-related, or it could have been Goodell getting back at Brady for sueing him, or it could have been as simple as the refs deciding they would put Brady in his place after the latter mentioned in an interview earlier in the week that he sometimes would bitch to the officials to influence their calls; but it was there - that is inescapable. Hochuli was asked Monday why he didn't call roughing on Miller, and his reply was, "We didn't feel that it rose to the level of roughing." He might as well have said, "The Bucs were not winning that game - we were going to see to that." This is directly from the NFL rule book, Rule 12 Section 2 Article 11:

In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture—for example, (1) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him; or (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

The last text for this rule is the following, under "Notes":

When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.

So that play was indisputably called corruptly, and it made a difference in the outcome of the game. Had it been called honestly, we would have had the ball first and ten at the 28 - two yards closer than where we attempted a field goal from four plays later. If from there we had run the same play, with the same result, that we ran from the 50 after the corrupt call, we would have had it first-and-goal at the nine-yard-line. Go ahead and try to argue that Succop would be just as likely to miss a 26-yarder as the 48-yarder he missed that possession, or that we wouldn't likely have punched it in for what would've been the touchdown that made the difference in the game and gave us the victory.

There were multiple other plays that were not officiated honestly; as others have noted, the Rams got away with holding multiple times. I'm sure Donovan Smith would've had an easier time holding up against their rush if he had felt empowered to hold at will; all of the times I saw him get beat he was blocking legally, which the Rams OL didn't have to bother with because they were being held to a different standard.

[uscbucsfan]

lol

[Noles1724]

What a crybaby thread..good grief

[Rocker]

That dude big mad. Yikes.

[uscbucsfan]

That dude big mad. Yikes.

It's this same guy, lol:

If it had been officiated even remotely honestly they would have won. Never has there been a televised sporting event that was more conspicuously, blatantly fixed. I even have a handful of the most egregious moments memorized, it burned so badly:

First half, I believe the first quarter: The Giants had a third-and-long in their own territory. Burress caught a long pass that put them in field goal range, and they kicked a field goal shortly thereafter. Slow-motion replay was shown of the Burress catch: he didn't just push off, he knocked the Pats defender five yards away from him with full extension of both arms...no call. That three points ended up being the difference in the game. There hasn't been a more blatant offensive pass interference in the history of the game - no call.

Third quarter: The Pats had a third down just on their own side of the fifty. Brady dropped back to pass, threw an incomplete pass...After which he didn't just get hit, a good full second or more late, but square in the head which of course is never legal under any circumstance...and the Giants defender hit him helmet-to-helmet. This was also shown in slo-mo replay (evidently one of the few honest people participating in the broadcast that day was the replay guy)...miraculously, inexplicably, indefensibly, no call.

Naysayers can explain away the two above if they try hard enough. I defy anyone to explain this one: with barely a minute left, the Giants were in their own territory and needed a touchdown to take the lead. So they run a play - and no time runs off the clock. They run another play - same thing. 300 million people could hear for all posterity as Troy Aikman says, "Something's wrong with the clock. Why don't they fix the clock?" And yet it kept happening, for at least three plays if not four, and the Giants ended up scoring with thirty-five seconds left, whereas they would have run out of time if the clock had functioned normally.

Goon Goodell ( the same guy who just unconscionably changed the number rules in yet another pathetic attempt to hamper Brady from getting another SB) or Vegas or both decided the Pats shouldn't have their perfect season, and they made sure of it.

I haven't checked the first two, but I went right for the 3rd one since as you say it would be very obvious. Fortunately all this stuff is on youtube

hate to say it, but you're wrong broski. but I see why it stuck out in your head...

[youtube][/youtube]

The play you're referring to starts at 3:42 in the above video...

1:28 left in the game, Eli snaps the ball, and the clock doesn't move. Eli rolls out, and gets tackled for like a 4 yard gain on a run. By the time he is tackled, the clock still reads 1:28. But then watch. At 3:55 in the video, the clock starts ticking, and really fast, as if somebody is mashing the "speed up" button. Ultimately, there's a scrum for the football and a few extra seconds are burned off. The next play, they're showing the Giants only having 2 remaining timeouts, so it can be presumed that they just burned their first timeout, and they put a couple seconds back up on the clock, up from 1:15 where they let it run to, to 1:20, which would have been the 7-8 seconds total of the play.

Go back and watch the play and count out the seconds while the clock isn't running.

Nothing funky going on there. The clock just didn't run for a play, then they fast forwarded it and brought it back to the correct time.

Net result of this play: Zero funky seconds given to either team.


Now for the following play, 1:20 left in the game. Eli snaps it - and the clock AGAIN doesn't run for about 2 seconds, then starts running. But then they let it run for another second or so after the ball is already dead. Ok so maybe the giants got literally 1 second of benefit there.

Net result of this play: One second given to Giants

Next play, Eli throws an incomplete pass. No clock weirdness.


AND THEN - get this - the PATRIOTS actually get some clock fuckery on their side. This next play, starting at 4:36 in the video, shows the David Tyree helmet play start - with 1:15 left on the clock in the game. Watch the play.

Tyree catches it and hits the ground at 1:05 left in the game. He's obviously down.

The clock stops.

But then IT STARTS RUNNING AGAIN LOL.

For some reason, the clock just magically starts running again while they roll around on the ground - for 9 SECONDS! While Coughlin is over on the sideline slamming the Timeout button, the clock is just rolling away all the way down from 1:05 to 0:56.

The next play comes back and they give the Giants back 3 seconds, and have the clock start at 0:59. But that's still 6 seconds they lost while Tyree was obviously down.

Net result of this play: SIX second benefit given to the Patriots



Next play? Look at this shit. Eli rolls out. Gets tackled at 0:55 left on the clock. And the fuckin clock just keeps running, while Coughlin is of course trying to call a time out. Fuckin clock goes down to 0:51!

Net result of this play: FOUR second benefit given to the Patriots


Next play? Look at this shit again! Eli throws a down and out incomplete. Ball hits the ground at 0:47, ref signals incomplete immediately, and the clock runs for another 2 seconds.

Net result of this play: TWO second benefit given to the Patriots


Next play? Yup. Clock hesitates for 1 second before starting after Eli snaps it. He throws a pass to the sideline, Steve Smith catches, gets tackled out of bounds - he's down at :41, and they run an extra second off it down to :40. Then by the time they show back up for the next play, the clock is actually sitting at :39. So they ran ANOTHER second off probably to account for the missed second at the snap.

Net result of this play: zero seconds given to either team, if anything, 1 second given to Patriots


Next play is the Touchdown.


So yes, the clock was COMPLETELY fucked up that entire drive. But all said and done, the way I see it, the Patriots received an ELEVEN second benefit throughout the entire clock shit show of that drive




and I've got no love for the Giants dude, I'm just into conspiracies and shit and love looking into this kind of shit. and honestly, it seems like the clock dude was on the Patriots' side here - not the Giants....

It's like the Chef for Tom Brady...wild.

[Tnbandwagoner]

What a crybaby thread..good grief

What an infantile post...good grief.

[Tnbandwagoner]

That dude big mad. Yikes.

It's this same guy, lol:

I haven't checked the first two, but I went right for the 3rd one since as you say it would be very obvious. Fortunately all this stuff is on youtube

hate to say it, but you're wrong broski. but I see why it stuck out in your head...

[youtube][/youtube]

The play you're referring to starts at 3:42 in the above video...

1:28 left in the game, Eli snaps the ball, and the clock doesn't move. Eli rolls out, and gets tackled for like a 4 yard gain on a run. By the time he is tackled, the clock still reads 1:28. But then watch. At 3:55 in the video, the clock starts ticking, and really fast, as if somebody is mashing the "speed up" button. Ultimately, there's a scrum for the football and a few extra seconds are burned off. The next play, they're showing the Giants only having 2 remaining timeouts, so it can be presumed that they just burned their first timeout, and they put a couple seconds back up on the clock, up from 1:15 where they let it run to, to 1:20, which would have been the 7-8 seconds total of the play.

Go back and watch the play and count out the seconds while the clock isn't running.

Nothing funky going on there. The clock just didn't run for a play, then they fast forwarded it and brought it back to the correct time.

Net result of this play: Zero funky seconds given to either team.


Now for the following play, 1:20 left in the game. Eli snaps it - and the clock AGAIN doesn't run for about 2 seconds, then starts running. But then they let it run for another second or so after the ball is already dead. Ok so maybe the giants got literally 1 second of benefit there.

Net result of this play: One second given to Giants

Next play, Eli throws an incomplete pass. No clock weirdness.


AND THEN - get this - the PATRIOTS actually get some clock fuckery on their side. This next play, starting at 4:36 in the video, shows the David Tyree helmet play start - with 1:15 left on the clock in the game. Watch the play.

Tyree catches it and hits the ground at 1:05 left in the game. He's obviously down.

The clock stops.

But then IT STARTS RUNNING AGAIN LOL.

For some reason, the clock just magically starts running again while they roll around on the ground - for 9 SECONDS! While Coughlin is over on the sideline slamming the Timeout button, the clock is just rolling away all the way down from 1:05 to 0:56.

The next play comes back and they give the Giants back 3 seconds, and have the clock start at 0:59. But that's still 6 seconds they lost while Tyree was obviously down.

Net result of this play: SIX second benefit given to the Patriots



Next play? Look at this shit. Eli rolls out. Gets tackled at 0:55 left on the clock. And the fuckin clock just keeps running, while Coughlin is of course trying to call a time out. Fuckin clock goes down to 0:51!

Net result of this play: FOUR second benefit given to the Patriots


Next play? Look at this shit again! Eli throws a down and out incomplete. Ball hits the ground at 0:47, ref signals incomplete immediately, and the clock runs for another 2 seconds.

Net result of this play: TWO second benefit given to the Patriots


Next play? Yup. Clock hesitates for 1 second before starting after Eli snaps it. He throws a pass to the sideline, Steve Smith catches, gets tackled out of bounds - he's down at :41, and they run an extra second off it down to :40. Then by the time they show back up for the next play, the clock is actually sitting at :39. So they ran ANOTHER second off probably to account for the missed second at the snap.

Net result of this play: zero seconds given to either team, if anything, 1 second given to Patriots


Next play is the Touchdown.


So yes, the clock was COMPLETELY fucked up that entire drive. But all said and done, the way I see it, the Patriots received an ELEVEN second benefit throughout the entire clock shit show of that drive




and I've got no love for the Giants dude, I'm just into conspiracies and shit and love looking into this kind of shit. and honestly, it seems like the clock dude was on the Patriots' side here - not the Giants....

It's like the Chef for Tom Brady...wild.

So you couldn’t refute what I said about the game in question, so you changed the subject. You’re a piece of shit.

[uscbucsfan]

Refute what you said? You are pitching flat earth here. There's no logic to talk this kind of crazy down...and it appears that you do this with every Tom Brady loss.

Did you convince yourself that if a ref called it wrong previously it should be noted and called wrong later in the playoffs? It's just a ridiculous leap and that's not even going into the other CT stuff.

It's the correct call per the rulebook.

Also, the holding calls pointed out were mocking you.

[kaimaru]

Refute what you said? You are pitching flat earth here. There's no logic to talk this kind of crazy down...and it appears that you do this with every Tom Brady loss.

Did you convince yourself that if a ref called it wrong previously it should be noted and called wrong later in the playoffs? It's just a ridiculous leap and that's not even going into the other CT stuff.

It's the correct call per the rulebook.

Also, the holding calls pointed out were mocking you.

While I am not calling it a conspiracy. It was well known that Ed Hochuli and Brady didn't like each other. I am sure Shawn probably doesn't like him either which is why he was quick with that unsportsmanlike on Brady. The no call too. That was 100% roughing and you know it. A pinkie brush to the helmet from any of our pass rushers has been called at least twice I can remember this season.

[Tnbandwagoner]

Refute what you said? You are pitching flat earth here. There's no logic to talk this kind of crazy down...and it appears that you do this with every Tom Brady loss.

Did you convince yourself that if a ref called it wrong previously it should be noted and called wrong later in the playoffs? It's just a ridiculous leap and that's not even going into the other CT stuff.

It's the correct call per the rulebook.

Also, the holding calls pointed out were mocking you.

Once again you're avoiding the question. You know there's no argument that can make the unsportsmanlike call on Brady while not calling the helmet-to-his-head hit on Miller not be corrupt, so you prevaricate and spew ad hominem.

By the way, I went back and watched the 2008 Pats-Giants Super Bowl. I had mis-remembered a couple details such as where the Pats were on the field when a play happened, but the push-off by Burress, replete with replay and no call, is there, as is a violent hit to Brady's head that wasn't called, as are other penalties I didn't see in real time such as a Giants D-lineman lining up not once, not twice, but three times on one play in the neutral zone:

1. 2:55 into the first quarter - Burress blatantly pushes off before catching a first-down pass and it's shown again in replay. I mis-remembered how much yardage the pass covered, but was correct both in the egregiousness of the foul and the fact it was shown in replay but not called.

2. 1:47 left in the second - Brady drops back, gets the pass off, and the Giants defender hits him late and drives him into the ground - no call

3. at 13:36 of the third quarter - Brady throws a short pass. A full second after he throws the pass, a Giants defender hits him - and then a second after that, a second Giants defender knocks him to the ground, as egregious of a late hit on the QB as there has ever been - no call. If it had been called it would have given them first down at the 33-yard line. The drive stalled at the 31-yard line; one can say the penalty would not have changed the game, but if they had gained 17 yards from the 33 like they did from the 48 they would have been at the 16-yard line and most certainly would have taken the field goal rather than going for it on fourth down like they did from the 31.

4. 3:04 left in the third quarter - Brady drops back to pass, gets the pass off and then is hit squarely in the top of the head by Mitchell for the Giants - no flag. The play is shown in replay so everyone can see Mitchell slam down onto Brady's helmet with his forearm.

5. 0:14 left in the third quarter - #71 for the Giants lines up in the neutral zone, moves out of it, then moves back into it again, at which time Matt Light moves. By the rule book, when an OL moves in reaction to a defender entering the neutral zone, it's supposed to be a neutral zone infraction against the defender:

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nf ... nfraction/

No penalty was called on the Giants, but the refs did call a false start on Light.

[accidentw8ing2happen]

I went through every point made then hit reply. Wasn't logged in so it got erased. I will simplify it. You are inferring malice(corruption) to something that is likely inadvertent. Hanlon's Razor suggests not to attribute malice to which can easily be explained by stupidity. You also admitted to having a spotty memory with one of your examples. Even though you remembered the event incorrectly it still favored your argument. In one of your first sentences you said that there was a game that was officiated poorly but you can't remember which team they played. There is a pattern forming here. Confabulation fills gaps of memory in often an uncharitable way. Sounds like you have a conclusion "Officials Corrupt." You then look for examples post hoc that fit that conclusion. There was a Zebra that I thought didn't have enough stripes but I can't remember how many it had. When I find that Zebra I will count them and then I will know how many stripes is too few. .

[MJW]

OMG, are we really doing this?

The Rams kicked our ass.

The refs didn't help us, but we shouldn't have been in a position where the refs helping us was required for victory.

Again, the Rams kicked our fucking ass up and down the field. It's a goddamn miracle, attributable to Saint Brady, that it was even a game.