With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

[mdb1958]

I’ve seen a few mocks that have Green rated higher than Johnson. Both should be plug and play Guards with pro bowl potential. I’d be happy with either honestly.

I have Green a little ahead of Johnson on my official MJW big board. But it doesn't matter much. Both guys start Day One, both are plus guards in the league, possibly Pro Bowlers. It would very much resemble 2006, when we took Davin Joseph and plugged him in at guard and good to go.

Wasnt Davin a penalty machine?

[MJW]

I have Green a little ahead of Johnson on my official MJW big board. But it doesn't matter much. Both guys start Day One, both are plus guards in the league, possibly Pro Bowlers. It would very much resemble 2006, when we took Davin Joseph and plugged him in at guard and good to go.

Wasnt Davin a penalty machine?

Was he? I honestly don't remember. I remember Jeremy Trueblood was drafted in the next round, and played next to Davin most of his career, and wasn't great.

[mdb1958]

The Athletic did seven round mock.

Bucs:
1(27): G Kenyon Green, Texas A&M
2(60): DL Logan Hall, Houston
3(91): LB Channing Tindall, Geogia
4(133): CB Akayleb Evans, Missouri
7(248): TE Derek Deese Jr., San Jose St.
7(261): P Jordan Stout, Penn St.

I won't pretend to know anything about these players. My only note is that I hate the reasoning behind the Green pick. Zion Johnson went a few picks before, but we still draft a guard to fill the need. Maybe Green is as good or better than Johnson, but that is definitely not the consensus. By most accounts he's a tier below as a prospect. So it just seems like reaching for need.

This would be a weird draft for me. Green is a nice safe pick. But Hall, I'm not sure his fit. I guess he's kind of an Anthony Nelson type? 6'5 267...not sure he helps the main issue with the D-Line. Tindall would be a possible successor to LVD, but I'm wary taking a linebacker that small (6'2 230) for that role. And yes, I know LVD is that small, but LVD also has supernatural instincts for avoiding blockers. Who knows if Tindall does?

Evans would be a solid value pick. Deese I know almost nothing about, except that his dad played for us. Stout, again, I know little, but it feels like about time to get cheaper at punter. Can't get too much cheaper than pick 261 for four years.

Just did a sim that I didnt post that had Hall in it, but at the same time Potato, Previlon, Smith, Roches, Ponder Stuart, Britt, and Gill all better be on their toes! LOL.

[mdb1958]

Also, I will admit very little is being said about the average DT's in this class.

[MJW]

This would be a weird draft for me. Green is a nice safe pick. But Hall, I'm not sure his fit. I guess he's kind of an Anthony Nelson type? 6'5 267...not sure he helps the main issue with the D-Line. Tindall would be a possible successor to LVD, but I'm wary taking a linebacker that small (6'2 230) for that role. And yes, I know LVD is that small, but LVD also has supernatural instincts for avoiding blockers. Who knows if Tindall does?

Evans would be a solid value pick. Deese I know almost nothing about, except that his dad played for us. Stout, again, I know little, but it feels like about time to get cheaper at punter. Can't get too much cheaper than pick 261 for four years.

Just did a sim that I didnt post that had Hall in it, but at the same time Potato, Previlon, Smith, Roches, Ponder Stuart, Britt, and Gill all better be on their toes! LOL.

On Britt - I was watching the Jets highlights yesterday and Minter was awful in that game. Berrios and that scatback of theirs just ganked him all over the field. He was worth 10 points to the Jets. Like, almost literally. I would be shocked if he's back. Shocked. I think Britt gets that job, and I think he'll get a long look at succeeding LVD.

Stuard is never going to be a great scrimmage option. He looks like he's playing on skates out there. Aggressiveness can be a huge plus on kick coverage, but it gets exploited from scrimmage.

One last thought - Devin Lloyd and Nakobe Dean are monsters, and I will not be the least bit upset with either one at #27. Dean is LVD with White's nose for the blitz. Lloyd is just a complete linebacker in the Bobby Wagner mold.

[mdb1958]

Just did a sim that I didnt post that had Hall in it, but at the same time Potato, Previlon, Smith, Roches, Ponder Stuart, Britt, and Gill all better be on their toes! LOL.

On Britt - I was watching the Jets highlights yesterday and Minter was awful in that game. Berrios and that scatback of theirs just ganked him all over the field. He was worth 10 points to the Jets. Like, almost literally. I would be shocked if he's back. Shocked. I think Britt gets that job, and I think he'll get a long look at succeeding LVD.

Stuard is never going to be a great scrimmage option. He looks like he's playing on skates out there. Aggressiveness can be a huge plus on kick coverage, but it gets exploited from scrimmage.

One last thought - Devin Lloyd and Nakobe Dean are monsters, and I will not be the least bit upset with either one at #27. Dean is LVD with White's nose for the blitz. Lloyd is just a complete linebacker in the Bobby Wagner mold.

Don't think I can agree with that.

[mdb1958]

But just like the one lug racing in Nascar now - you learn to accept it.

[mdb1958]

Britt? I felt like the NFL asked us to waste our draft for the sake of parity.

[Kona]

Funny enough I liken Green to Davin, and Johnson reminds me of our very own Shaq Mason.

[mdb1958]

Funny enough I liken Green to Davin, and Johnson reminds me of our very own Shaq Mason.

This is what a guard gets you

https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.e ... 105610.jpg


Thinking when do I get back on the field...

[Doctor]

That's what not having enough OL depth gets you

[MJW]

I did a TDN draft. I like it better than PFF because it's WAY too easy to game PFF's engine. Here's what a "damn good" Bucs mock looks like for me right now. No trades, no cheating:

27) Kenyon Green, Guard, Texas A&M

62) Travis Jones, Defensive Lineman, UConn

91) Jeremy Ruckert, Tight End, Ohio State

133) Coby Bryant, Cornerback, Cincinnati

248) Matt Araiza, Punter, San Diego State

261) Jerrion Ealy, Running Back, Ole Miss

[mdb1958]

Do this one https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl- ... -rankings/

[mdb1958]

PFF 352 prospects
TDN 440 prospects
PFN 842 prospects - 1405 on their bigboard

[mdb1958]

If this years 4.3's are real I think it is the most I have ever seen in a draft.

[mdb1958]

And we prolly end up with none of them.

[Kona]

I did a TDN draft. I like it better than PFF because it's WAY too easy to game PFF's engine. Here's what a "damn good" Bucs mock looks like for me right now. No trades, no cheating:

27) Kenyon Green, Guard, Texas A&M

62) Travis Jones, Defensive Lineman, UConn

91) Jeremy Ruckert, Tight End, Ohio State

133) Coby Bryant, Cornerback, Cincinnati

248) Matt Araiza, Punter, San Diego State

261) Jerrion Ealy, Running Back, Ole Miss

That would be a home run draft for us.

[MJW]

I did a TDN draft. I like it better than PFF because it's WAY too easy to game PFF's engine. Here's what a "damn good" Bucs mock looks like for me right now. No trades, no cheating:

27) Kenyon Green, Guard, Texas A&M

62) Travis Jones, Defensive Lineman, UConn

91) Jeremy Ruckert, Tight End, Ohio State

133) Coby Bryant, Cornerback, Cincinnati

248) Matt Araiza, Punter, San Diego State

261) Jerrion Ealy, Running Back, Ole Miss

That would be a home run draft for us.

Yeah, I don't think I could cook up a better one if I tried. Which means none of it will work. But at this point, Licht deserves our faith. Mostly.

[Dread]

I don't like Kenyon Green that early. He may turn out to be a solid pro, but drafting a Guard at 27 doesn't have much value unless he's can't miss.

If Zion Johnson is off the board already I hope we go DT or EDGE at 27.

[Doctor]

I mean I doubt any of our guys could've been called "can't miss" on draft day, yet here they are

[mdb1958]

I don't like Kenyon Green that early. He may turn out to be a solid pro, but drafting a Guard at 27 doesn't have much value unless he's can't miss.

If Zion Johnson is off the board already I hope we go DT or EDGE at 27.

Sure would have liked to have Andre Carter on our team.

[Doctor]

I'm really starting to fall in love with Devin Lloyd. Even enough to trade up.

[MJW]

I'm really starting to fall in love with Devin Lloyd. Even enough to trade up.

Love Devin Lloyd. Love him. Any of the old timers remember Harry Carson? He reminds me of Harry Carson (who is, it should be noted, in the Hall Of Fame.)

I would go full Napoleon Dynamite "yessss" if we drafted Lloyd.

[Cheb]

I'm really starting to fall in love with Devin Lloyd. Even enough to trade up.

I haven't really been scouting the offball backers in this class. I'll have to give him a look.

I dunno about drafting an offball linebacker in the first few rounds this year. Would Devin Lloyd be BPA later in the draft, maybe, and there's a case to be made by BPA diehards to take good players regardless of relative team strengths, especially with LVD getting longer in the tooth.

That said, even if Devin Lloyd is BPA... how does he see the field as a rookie? As a middle linebacker over LVD or White? Unlikely except in the case of injury. As an OLB? I highly doubt he beats our Barrett, and while the battle between him and JTS would be interesting, one could argue that it would more than a bit redundant. He's too small to play on the interior line, too slow for a safety.

So let's say we are putting together a nickel package. Do we throw out a 3-3 with LVD and both Devins at backer, then Vea, JTS, and Barrett as our three man line? I mean it could work, a 3-3 is a legit defense and I run it myself, but that would likely be a sub package for us, not base nickel, so he would get what, a couple hundred snaps at most?

I don't know man. I think that any rookie we have should be a guy who sees the field ASAP, because the Brady window could close at any moment. Adding Lloyd or another high pick offball linebacker could be a solid move for our future, but would it help us win this year?

[MJW]

I'm really starting to fall in love with Devin Lloyd. Even enough to trade up.

I haven't really been scouting the offball backers in this class. I'll have to give him a look.

I dunno about drafting an offball linebacker in the first few rounds this year. Would Devin Lloyd be BPA later in the draft, maybe, and there's a case to be made by BPA diehards to take good players regardless of relative team strengths, especially with LVD getting longer in the tooth.

That said, even if Devin Lloyd is BPA... how does he see the field as a rookie? As a middle linebacker over LVD or White? Unlikely except in the case of injury. As an OLB? I highly doubt he beats our Barrett, and while the battle between him and JTS would be interesting, one could argue that it would more than a bit redundant. He's too small to play on the interior line, too slow for a safety.

So let's say we are putting together a nickel package. Do we throw out a 3-3 with LVD and both Devins at backer, then Vea, JTS, and Barrett as our three man line? I mean it could work, a 3-3 is a legit defense and I run it myself, but that would likely be a sub package for us, not base nickel, so he would get what, a couple hundred snaps at most?

I don't know man. I think that any rookie we have should be a guy who sees the field ASAP, because the Brady window could close at any moment. Adding Lloyd or another high pick offball linebacker could be a solid move for our future, but would it help us win this year?

And I mean, with a year like this, that's kind of the tension. Because you take someone like Lloyd (or Nakobe Dean, who is also a force) and you're getting them on the field for maybe 10% of the snaps if LVD and White stay healthy. They're not helping you a ton. BUT, you're also (IMHO) positioning yourself to have a stud when LVD moves on*. It's not an easy decision.

* - Or if OBP figures out that White isn't going to become what you drafted him to be.

[Backside]

As a Utah alum, I’d love to have Lloyd.

Would also love Nakobe Dean tbh. Really doubt we go that direction though. Maybe Bowles falls in love though.

[Miller4Prez64]

I don't like Kenyon Green that early. He may turn out to be a solid pro, but drafting a Guard at 27 doesn't have much value unless he's can't miss.

If Zion Johnson is off the board already I hope we go DT or EDGE at 27.

I don’t get why so many want a guard in round one personally. It’s not that valuable of a position. We just acquired one of the better veteran guards in the league for a 5th round pick.

Plus there is Tom Brady who can make anyone look better on the o-line with his quick release. I get that it feels like the biggest hole in the lineup, but I don’t think we need to plug it with a first round pick. Hell, I think we can do just fine with the winner of a Stinnie/Hainsey battle in camp at that spot.

I think getting younger on the defensive front seven should be the priority. Shaq is turning 30 this fall leaving Vea and the undeveloped JTS as the only younger pieces there. I’m actually concerned for our pass rush if JTS doesn’t take a step forward.

[mdb1958]

We won't be picking 27th in this draft.

[MJW]

I don't like Kenyon Green that early. He may turn out to be a solid pro, but drafting a Guard at 27 doesn't have much value unless he's can't miss.

If Zion Johnson is off the board already I hope we go DT or EDGE at 27.

I don’t get why so many want a guard in round one personally. It’s not that valuable of a position. We just acquired one of the better veteran guards in the league for a 5th round pick.

Plus there is Tom Brady who can make anyone look better on the o-line with his quick release. I get that it feels like the biggest hole in the lineup, but I don’t think we need to plug it with a first round pick. Hell, I think we can do just fine with the winner of a Stinnie/Hainsey battle in camp at that spot.

I think getting younger on the defensive front seven should be the priority. Shaq is turning 30 this fall leaving Vea and the undeveloped JTS as the only younger pieces there. I’m actually concerned for our pass rush if JTS doesn’t take a step forward.

It's natural to identify a weakness (Aaron Stinnie) and want to fix it. But I agree, something about the "hand in glove" nature of it short-circuits the "value" aspect of the decision making process.

I think, at 27, you have maybe a little more flexibility about taking a lower value position than you would in the top ten or whatever. If you leave the last 20s of any first round with a guy you feel is an 8-10 year plus starter, you feel good about that. Even, again, if it's not a priority position.

I agree 100% about prioritizing the D-Line. But I'd need to see value there also. I don't want OBP to reach because of the age/lack of depth we have now.

Oh, as for Plan B...Don't sleep on Cam Gill. I saw him flash a few times last year. He was a small school guy (Wagner) who was really productive at that level. I can't prove it because he's still listed at his draft weight (240) but I'll bet he's bulked up to the 250 range. I would also guess that his "pressures to rushes" metrics were really strong last year. I'm not saying he's going to be Von Miller, but I could see him being a Michael Bennett caliber late bloomer if he gets the snaps.

[MJW]

We won't be picking 27th in this draft.

Moving up or moving down?

[Doctor]

I'm really starting to fall in love with Devin Lloyd. Even enough to trade up.

I haven't really been scouting the offball backers in this class. I'll have to give him a look.

I dunno about drafting an offball linebacker in the first few rounds this year. Would Devin Lloyd be BPA later in the draft, maybe, and there's a case to be made by BPA diehards to take good players regardless of relative team strengths, especially with LVD getting longer in the tooth.

That said, even if Devin Lloyd is BPA... how does he see the field as a rookie? As a middle linebacker over LVD or White? Unlikely except in the case of injury. As an OLB? I highly doubt he beats our Barrett, and while the battle between him and JTS would be interesting, one could argue that it would more than a bit redundant. He's too small to play on the interior line, too slow for a safety.

So let's say we are putting together a nickel package. Do we throw out a 3-3 with LVD and both Devins at backer, then Vea, JTS, and Barrett as our three man line? I mean it could work, a 3-3 is a legit defense and I run it myself, but that would likely be a sub package for us, not base nickel, so he would get what, a couple hundred snaps at most?

I don't know man. I think that any rookie we have should be a guy who sees the field ASAP, because the Brady window could close at any moment. Adding Lloyd or another high pick offball linebacker could be a solid move for our future, but would it help us win this year?

I think he can play inside or outside. I also wouldn't be surprised if he becomes our best coverage linebacker in due time. You don't pass on league stars on cheap deals who can turn into franchise players to turn "a weaker position less weak". You just don't.

Defenders rotate all the time. Players get hurt all the time. The NFL is a game of attrition. I'd much rather have a budding star keeping the defense strong during his snaps while our other guys are taking a breather, coming in to maintain our standard should someone get hurt, and also eventually taking over full time to be a cornerstone of this defense for years.... than maybe getting an upgrade from SMB to Daxton Hill?

[mdb1958]

We won't be picking 27th in this draft.

Moving up or moving down?

Down.

[mdb1958]

PFF 352 prospects
TDN 440 prospects
PFN 842 prospects - 1405 on their bigboard

Right after I posted this PFN changed their format. Bigboard now is top 300, sim machine is still huge though.

[MJW]

Moving up or moving down?

Down.

HIghly likely. Lotta depth spots open on the 53 with only 4 picks in the first 6 rounds. It would make sense until there's a "run the card up" type prospect sitting there at #27.

[mdb1958]

Down.

HIghly likely. Lotta depth spots open on the 53 with only 4 picks in the first 6 rounds. It would make sense until there's a "run the card up" type prospect sitting there at #27.

Do you think there are a lot of prospects our team would like outside of the top 100? I find a bunch.