With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

Post by MJW »

mdb1958 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:41 am
MJW wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:22 am

HIghly likely. Lotta depth spots open on the 53 with only 4 picks in the first 6 rounds. It would make sense until there's a "run the card up" type prospect sitting there at #27.
Do you think there are a lot of prospects our team would like outside of the top 100? I find a bunch.
I do. It seems like there are going to be a lot of good football players in the 100-200 range of this draft. I'm not doing the math or anything, but I'd be willing to bet this will be one of the richest 4th-6th rounds drafts in some time for contributors. TBH, it's a lousy draft not to have much capital in that range.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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MJW wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:53 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:41 am

Do you think there are a lot of prospects our team would like outside of the top 100? I find a bunch.
I do. It seems like there are going to be a lot of good football players in the 100-200 range of this draft. I'm not doing the math or anything, but I'd be willing to bet this will be one of the richest 4th-6th rounds drafts in some time for contributors. TBH, it's a lousy draft not to have much capital in that range.


Take any prospect board out there and someone is going to get picked that isnt on that board.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

Post by Cheb »

MJW wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:53 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:41 am

Do you think there are a lot of prospects our team would like outside of the top 100? I find a bunch.
I do. It seems like there are going to be a lot of good football players in the 100-200 range of this draft. I'm not doing the math or anything, but I'd be willing to bet this will be one of the richest 4th-6th rounds drafts in some time for contributors. TBH, it's a lousy draft not to have much capital in that range.
I agree.

Keep in mind that there are quite a few players in this draft who are "COVID seniors" who have six years of college experience; the regular four years, a redshirt season, and a sixth season deferred due to COVID. There are a ton of dudes in the fourth and fifth rounds who have played alot of ball and put together alot of tape who are probably going to make their drafting teams very happy.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Green is becoming the go-to for the Bucs in mocks.

https://nfldraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Not a ton of options I’m caping for in this scenario. Trading back and picking up some later round picks definitely seems most ideal in this scenario, if we can get a team to go for it.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Backside wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:42 pm Green is becoming the go-to for the Bucs in mocks.

https://nfldraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Not a ton of options I’m caping for in this scenario. Trading back and picking up some later round picks definitely seems most ideal in this scenario, if we can get a team to go for it.
It's just a matter of your board. If you're convinced Green (or Zion Johnson or whoever) is a cut above, you pull the trigger. If you want a guard, but you're like, "Green, Johnson, Jamaree Salyer, Tyler Smith, Sean Rhyan, they're all pretty good" then you're moving back. FWIW, Licht said after 2017 he was ready to go with a big trade back in 2017 until Howard was there, and he was going to deal back last year if JTS had been gone. Don't know if it's true, but that's what he said.

I used to be a bigger fan of trading out of the late 1st round, but the 5th year option kinda changed that. Last year's #27 was Rashod Bateman, who looks like a good one. With the 5th year option, the Ravens will have him on a 5 Year, $18 mil or so contract. If he continues to develop into a great receiver, and you're paying him less for his entire 5 year deal than the Browns are paying Amari Cooper for this season, that's a huge competitive advantage in roster construction.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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So the fifth year option adds even more value to a trade down
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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mdb1958 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:46 am So the fifth year option adds even more value to a trade down
Yeah, potentially. But that value would need to be accounted for. It's not simply a matter of, "The guy we like at #27 will probably be there at #35, let's drop back because we can." It used to make sense just because rookie contracts (especially first rounders) were so significant. You could save money, pick up an extra pick, win-win. But with the rookie salary scale now and the 5th year, there has to be a good reason to make a deal like that.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

Post by Dread »

Boye Mafe is my new top target at #27
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Does Cameron Thomas have an injury?
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Dread wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:39 am Boye Mafe is my new top target at #27
An Edge? Really?
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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mdb1958 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:01 pm Does Cameron Thomas have an injury?
He was nursing a hamstring at the Senior Bowl but he's okay now I think.

His problem is he's a tweener. Not explosive enough to be a 4-3 end in most schemes. Not stout enough to move inside or be an every down 5T. Not fluid enough to play from two point. He'll be a good, useful player. But I don't know if he's going to be worth a 2nd.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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MJW wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:08 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:01 pm Does Cameron Thomas have an injury?
He was nursing a hamstring at the Senior Bowl but he's okay now I think.

His problem is he's a tweener. Not explosive enough to be a 4-3 end in most schemes. Not stout enough to move inside or be an every down 5T. Not fluid enough to play from two point. He'll be a good, useful player. But I don't know if he's going to be worth a 2nd.
Thing is up at the top of the draft there are very few players that would be in our reach that have produced with B gap or outside the tackle results.

Then there is figuring out "if"

Travon Walker
Cameron Thomas
DeMarvin Leal
Logan Hall
(even) Isaiah Thomas

can bulk up and still perform. Then late in the draft there are more interesting prospects who receive the normal snobbish attitude.

I said before we were running a 4/2/5 with 2 DT's and 2 OLB's that were not getting home and we were still getting ate up dropping 7 into coverage or blitzing some of them.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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mdb1958 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:47 pm
MJW wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:08 pm

He was nursing a hamstring at the Senior Bowl but he's okay now I think.

His problem is he's a tweener. Not explosive enough to be a 4-3 end in most schemes. Not stout enough to move inside or be an every down 5T. Not fluid enough to play from two point. He'll be a good, useful player. But I don't know if he's going to be worth a 2nd.
Thing is up at the top of the draft there are very few players that would be in our reach that have produced with B gap or outside the tackle results.

Then there is figuring out "if"

Travon Walker
Cameron Thomas
DeMarvin Leal
Logan Hall
(even) Isaiah Thomas

can bulk up and still perform. Then late in the draft there are more interesting prospects who receive the normal snobbish attitude.

I said before we were running a 4/2/5 with 2 DT's and 2 OLB's that were not getting home and we were still getting ate up dropping 7 into coverage or blitzing some of them.
I simply don't like guys like this as high picks. Josh Pascal is another one. What are you going to be great at in the NFL? You're not going to win with explosiveness off the edge. You're not stout enough to anchor or two-gap at a high level. At best, you'll be a versatile player who provides plus depth and solid snaps at a number of spots. That's good! You might be useful situationally. That's good too! Do I want to use a top 60 pick on it? No! Call it the Solomon Thomas Proviso. Late 3rd or beyond? Sure, you can sell me on guys like this. But I want to know how exactly you're going to win snaps against good players in the NFL. I just used a high pick on you, Cameron Thomas. You're lining up against Ryan Ramcyzk. Are you going to beat him with quickness around the edge? No. Are you going to outmuscle him to the ball? No. Are you even going to be able to contain? Possibly, probably not. Why did I use a high pick on you? If I bounce you inside, are you going to be stout enough to anchor against Cesar Ruiz? No. ETC.

Also, I want to say this - I'm not on the Walker bandwagon. I've just seen this story play out way too many times. Guy with insane physical skills can't win a steady role or produce consistently on his college team. Coaches say something like, "He's never worked with ME" or "His best football is ahead of him!" And they pass on the guy who had 13 sacks in the Big Ten and was usually the best player on the football field for the guy who was like the 7th best player on his own defense.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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If I was a GM, I'd ban the terms "ceiling" and "floor" from the meeting room. Every later round pick who turned into a superstar shattered everyone's "ceiling," or else he would have gone much earlier. And every draft class is littered with "high floor" "safe picks" who are out of the league in 3 years.

You look at Hutchinson, and he makes play after play. He's always around the ball. Offenses are accounting for him every snap. And he's still making plays, usually against future NFL linemen.

You look at Walker, and he makes some plays, but he's invisible a lot. Or he's subbed out. How is a guy who isn't remotely the best player on his college defense going to be one of the best players in the NFL? Or to be more accurate (because it has happened) - why the hell would you BET on that happening? Because he's really impressive doing things in an air-conditioned, quiet weight room or track in sneakers?

I genuinely think if a GM banned all "Non Football" info on prospects, and just went with tape, interviews, and medical to make his decisions, he'd have a better success rate than the GMs who are really impressed with workout metrics.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

Post by mdb1958 »

Dread wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:39 am Boye Mafe is my new top target at #27

He seems to be getting pushed up on some boards. I went through some boards, I'm tired but the lowest I've seen him is 107th so far.

The big question is what does our board look like?
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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MJW wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:06 am
mdb1958 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:47 pm

Thing is up at the top of the draft there are very few players that would be in our reach that have produced with B gap or outside the tackle results.

Then there is figuring out "if"

Travon Walker
Cameron Thomas
DeMarvin Leal
Logan Hall
(even) Isaiah Thomas

can bulk up and still perform. Then late in the draft there are more interesting prospects who receive the normal snobbish attitude.

I said before we were running a 4/2/5 with 2 DT's and 2 OLB's that were not getting home and we were still getting ate up dropping 7 into coverage or blitzing some of them.
I simply don't like guys like this as high picks. Josh Pascal is another one. What are you going to be great at in the NFL? You're not going to win with explosiveness off the edge. You're not stout enough to anchor or two-gap at a high level. At best, you'll be a versatile player who provides plus depth and solid snaps at a number of spots. That's good! You might be useful situationally. That's good too! Do I want to use a top 60 pick on it? No! Call it the Solomon Thomas Proviso. Late 3rd or beyond? Sure, you can sell me on guys like this. But I want to know how exactly you're going to win snaps against good players in the NFL. I just used a high pick on you, Cameron Thomas. You're lining up against Ryan Ramcyzk. Are you going to beat him with quickness around the edge? No. Are you going to outmuscle him to the ball? No. Are you even going to be able to contain? Possibly, probably not. Why did I use a high pick on you? If I bounce you inside, are you going to be stout enough to anchor against Cesar Ruiz? No. ETC.

Also, I want to say this - I'm not on the Walker bandwagon. I've just seen this story play out way too many times. Guy with insane physical skills can't win a steady role or produce consistently on his college team. Coaches say something like, "He's never worked with ME" or "His best football is ahead of him!" And they pass on the guy who had 13 sacks in the Big Ten and was usually the best player on the football field for the guy who was like the 7th best player on his own defense.
I said before we were running a 4/2/5 with 2 DT's and 2 OLB's that were not getting home and we were still getting ate up dropping 7 into coverage or blitzing some of them.
Is there an answer for this with our first two picks and maybe can you talk about them. Not trying to put you on the spot - just get your opinion.

Me - one of the things I'm picturing is Jones and Vea eating up guards with a center not sure who to help and then adding to that. I won't bet, but I'd bet Jones won't be around for pick 60 and I really do hate the thought of picking him with our first pick without a trade down if possible, two would be even better.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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@Dread In regards to Mafe, you must be going off of Reuters 4 round mock. Going off of that mock the Jets gave us 35, 117, and 146 for 27. Looking at that I'm trading down again so I can pick Jones before Cleveland does at 44.
At pick 60, no way do I pick James Cook and pass on Cameron Thomas, If he's gone I'd consider moving down early 3rd round. If the 3rd round goes that way I'd think about trading down again at pick 90.
Love pick 117.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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I saw Zion Johnson on Good Morning Football this morning...dude is super impressive. Like a genius level intellect. He already has a Master's Degree in Cybersecurity and he builds computers as a hobby. He's definitely destined to be a fan favorite wherever he goes.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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I saw an interview with Zion - so another big "thumbs up" for Mr. Johnson. I've been a Patriot fan for many years (still am) but love Brady in his new home in TB. Anyway, any time the Pats had times where the interior guys were less-than-optimum, it became hell for Tom. I have a strong sense Zion would really lock that guard spot down, and Brady would be free to accomplish "Brady things" back there in the pocket.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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So IABL is going full - please be there please be there please be there.

If he is what you think he is, why would he?
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Scudbuster49 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:44 pm I saw an interview with Zion - so another big "thumbs up" for Mr. Johnson. I've been a Patriot fan for many years (still am) but love Brady in his new home in TB. Anyway, any time the Pats had times where the interior guys were less-than-optimum, it became hell for Tom. I have a strong sense Zion would really lock that guard spot down, and Brady would be free to accomplish "Brady things" back there in the pocket.
Hi, Patriots fan. Nice to know you.

Brady absolutely needs protection up the middle. As much as any QB in the league. Dude is seamless in shuffling to his right away from blindside pressure. But straight up the gut, or to his right, that's how you beat him. It's how the Rams did (with Wirfs hurt,) and it's famously how the Broncos did it in the AFCCG back in 2015.

I hadn't really been thinking hard on this point, but now that you bring it up, yeah...I can't see OBP going into 2022 with Aaron Stinnie (a solid backup, but not really a 17 game starter) in that key spot to Brady's interior right.

Gotta think we're taking a Guard in R1 or R2 (possibly by either moving down from 1 or up from 2)

Thankfully, Zion isn't the only promising one. Green from TAMU is a beast. Very high on Tyler Smith from Tulsa, who's big (6'5 325) and moves really well. Darian Kinnard, Sean Rhyan, and Jamaree Sayler all look like great options too. I'm also a big fan of Ed Ingram, and we can probably get him at #60 if we don't get someone else sooner.

It's a good draft to need a guard.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Cole Strange from Chattanooga was mocked to us in the 2nd (after Devonte Wyatt) in the most recent Kiper/McShay. Had a good week at the senior bowl and comes from a small school. Seems like a classic Licht pick.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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The NFC goes through Aaron Donald. Any help upfront is good.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Doctor wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm The NFC goes through Aaron Donald. Any help upfront is good.
And when he retires, who will it be.

For the 14 teams in the playoffs (2021) on defense - we were 11th.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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mdb1958 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:09 am
Doctor wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm The NFC goes through Aaron Donald. Any help upfront is good.
And when he retires, who will it be.
Interior guys? Nobody. Nobody even close right now.

Edge guys? Nick Bosa. He's a monster. Good shot, if he stays healthy, to go down as one of the greatest ever.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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MJW wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:16 am
mdb1958 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:09 am

And when he retires, who will it be.
Interior guys? Nobody. Nobody even close right now.

Edge guys? Nick Bosa. He's a monster. Good shot, if he stays healthy, to go down as one of the greatest ever.

In 2020 we were 6th.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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mdb1958 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:09 am
Doctor wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm The NFC goes through Aaron Donald. Any help upfront is good.
And when he retires, who will it be.

For the 14 teams in the playoffs (2021) on defense - we were 11th.
Defenses don't play against each other. We don't need to be the best D just be better than the offense we're facing. Our D wasn't healthy all season, but when we are we can hang with anyone. I'm convinced we win the Rams game with Wirfs.

Everything else on the team is great to "good enough" to win a chip if we keep Brady clean.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Expanding on Mary Jane's thoughts - what if Travis Jones put on NFL muscle and lost twenty/thirty pounds doing it?
My thinking is it will be a whole lot harder to stop the blitz packages Bowles loves.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Scudbuster49 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:44 pm I saw an interview with Zion - so another big "thumbs up" for Mr. Johnson. I've been a Patriot fan for many years (still am) but love Brady in his new home in TB. Anyway, any time the Pats had times where the interior guys were less-than-optimum, it became hell for Tom. I have a strong sense Zion would really lock that guard spot down, and Brady would be free to accomplish "Brady things" back there in the pocket.
Yup. By far the most important key to winning for the Bucs is the Oline.

It's nearly impossible to beat a Tom Brady team without pressuring him, and do it while barely blitzing. Especially if our receivers are healthy. He's just too smart and experienced at this point.

Do we trust Hainsey/Stinnie ay LG or do we draft Green/Johnson?

We did go 4-0 in the playoffs and win a Superbowl with Stinnie and he should be a better player at this point.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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William Dunkle 95.2 PFF grade in 2021.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Daxton Hill wouldn’t surprise me. Seems like a player Todd might pound the table for.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

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Grahamburn wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:06 am Daxton Hill wouldn’t surprise me. Seems like a player Todd might pound the table for.

Would hate to take a safety with our first pick.
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Re: With the 27th pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the Tampa Bay Buccaneers select…

Post by Cheb »

mdb1958 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:30 am
Grahamburn wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:06 am Daxton Hill wouldn’t surprise me. Seems like a player Todd might pound the table for.

Would hate to take a safety with our first pick.
Unless that safety's name is Kyle Hamilton, I'd agree, and that isn't going to happen.

We have four excellent safeties for our two-deep; Antoine Winfield Jr, Logan Ryan, Mike Edwards, and Keanu Neal. Where exactly would a rookie fifth safety fit in? Dude may not even be active on gamedays. In a season where this could be Brady's last hurrah, drafting a safety in the first would be a horrible use of resources imo.

Okay, Cheb, but what if Logan Ryan is a slot corner, we could have a rookie backup, so there! And while you might be right, that would still leave him as likely the fourth safety in the pecking order, getting most of his snaps on special teams.

Bruh.
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