Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Orr
Espo
Richard
Orr
Ovie
Etc.
Crosby. Top 5? NO WAY IN HELL. Top 10? Probably.
Malkin!? GTFoutta here. Quit jerkin' the Pens off and get real.
Crosby and Malkin have three cups.PeterGuptill wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:37 amGretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Orr
Espo
Richard
Orr
Ovie
Etc.
Crosby. Top 5? NO WAY IN HELL. Top 10? Probably.
Malkin!? GTFoutta here. Quit jerkin' the Pens off and get real.
Oh. So we're going by Cups!? Than neither Crosby OR Malkin are top 10. Good effort though.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:31 amCrosby and Malkin have three cups.PeterGuptill wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:37 am
Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Orr
Espo
Richard
Orr
Ovie
Etc.
Crosby. Top 5? NO WAY IN HELL. Top 10? Probably.
Malkin!? GTFoutta here. Quit jerkin' the Pens off and get real.
Crosby is also better than Ovie in every stat other than goals, and is a much better two way player.
Malkin’s my favorite player of all time, so I overrate him a little hit. He’s probably top 10 too though.
No idea who you are or where you came from…PeterGuptill wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:38 amOh. So we're going by Cups!? Than neither Crosby OR Malkin are top 10. Good effort though.
Selkes. Crosby AND Ovie = Zero. So much for your "much better 2-way player" theory.
You don't know wtf you're talking about, other than your man-love for the Pens. You are clearly WRONG on EVERY count. Malkin, IS IN NO WAY, a top 10 NHL'er. You are f-ing HIGH to even think that.
Fuck off.
EDIT:
"Other than goals".
Well...that's kind of a thing. When you're talking about a guy who has a realistic chance at TOPPING GRETZKY!
Are you just stupid or ignorant?
No... Malkin is not a top 5 current player, that is retarded. Hell he is not even the 2nd best player on the Pens.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:59 amNo idea who you are or where you came from…PeterGuptill wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:38 am
Oh. So we're going by Cups!? Than neither Crosby OR Malkin are top 10. Good effort though.
Selkes. Crosby AND Ovie = Zero. So much for your "much better 2-way player" theory.
You don't know wtf you're talking about, other than your man-love for the Pens. You are clearly WRONG on EVERY count. Malkin, IS IN NO WAY, a top 10 NHL'er. You are f-ing HIGH to even think that.
Fuck off.
EDIT:
"Other than goals".
Well...that's kind of a thing. When you're talking about a guy who has a realistic chance at TOPPING GRETZKY!
Are you just stupid or ignorant?
Crosby is the consensus number one player from this generation.
Malkin doesn’t get the love of that but is most often considered a top 5 current player.
And Crosby isn’t just cups, he’s game winning Gold medal too. Cros has done it for so long, not that Ovie hasn’t. My best friend sucks Ovie’s dick too, so I get this one a lot because hes a freak goal scorer who’s physical.
Who’s better than Malkin on the current Pens roster???Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:41 amNo... Malkin is not a top 5 current player, that is retarded. Hell he is not even the 2nd best player on the Pens.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:59 am
No idea who you are or where you came from…
Crosby is the consensus number one player from this generation.
Malkin doesn’t get the love of that but is most often considered a top 5 current player.
And Crosby isn’t just cups, he’s game winning Gold medal too. Cros has done it for so long, not that Ovie hasn’t. My best friend sucks Ovie’s dick too, so I get this one a lot because hes a freak goal scorer who’s physical.
He is marginally better statistically than Stamkos and Stamkos arrived in the league two years later and missed a lot of time.
If Crosby could have kept the injuries in check he would have certainly been better than Ovechkin. He has played 150 fewer games. He missed too much time and hit the cliff early. Peak Crosby was better than Peak Ovechkin. But Career wise it is Ovechkin.
Who gives a shit about team accomplishments when evaluating individual players? Who was better, Bob Griese or Dan Mario?BJJ34 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:13 amWho’s better than Malkin on the current Pens roster???Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:41 am
No... Malkin is not a top 5 current player, that is retarded. Hell he is not even the 2nd best player on the Pens.
He is marginally better statistically than Stamkos and Stamkos arrived in the league two years later and missed a lot of time.
If Crosby could have kept the injuries in check he would have certainly been better than Ovechkin. He has played 150 fewer games. He missed too much time and hit the cliff early. Peak Crosby was better than Peak Ovechkin. But Career wise it is Ovechkin.
And Ovie doesn’t have 3 cups or a gold medal…
Crosby does. Career might be shorter, but Cros has had concussion problems. Ovie is the better goal scorer, Crosby takes the cake everywhere else.
Both are ancient and still are discussed in the MVP campaign.
DD… your troll job is weak, and I’m not even a Crosby fan. Crosby may be hated but he is the reason why the Pens franchise turned around. The arena sold out every game in his starting career.Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:57 pmWho gives a shit about team accomplishments when evaluating individual players? Who was better, Bob Griese or Dan Mario?BJJ34 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:13 am
Who’s better than Malkin on the current Pens roster???
And Ovie doesn’t have 3 cups or a gold medal…
Crosby does. Career might be shorter, but Cros has had concussion problems. Ovie is the better goal scorer, Crosby takes the cake everywhere else.
Both are ancient and still are discussed in the MVP campaign.
Crosby used to take the cake everywhere else but could not stay on the ice. If you cant stay on the ice you are not as useful as someone that is.
Ovechkin has the chance to go down in all time history Crosby is not even close in any statistic. ... It is not a hard concept to grasp
Troll? That is what you are going with?BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:06 amDD… your troll job is weak, and I’m not even a Crosby fan. Crosby may be hated but he is the reason why the Pens franchise turned around. The arena sold out every game in his starting career.Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:57 pm
Who gives a shit about team accomplishments when evaluating individual players? Who was better, Bob Griese or Dan Mario?
Crosby used to take the cake everywhere else but could not stay on the ice. If you cant stay on the ice you are not as useful as someone that is.
Ovechkin has the chance to go down in all time history Crosby is not even close in any statistic. ... It is not a hard concept to grasp
Team accomplishments are checked in hockey, bro.
So where is being a savior to a franchise and winning three cups there, with a Gold Medal(game winner) not answering it?Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pmTroll? That is what you are going with?
You did not answer the question. Hell, you did not even provide a logical retort.
You provided zero quantifiable reasons that Crosby will go down in history as being better than Ovechkin.
You only provided reasons why Crosby has been important to the Penguins. Team accomplishments are not individual accomplishments and I gave a perfect example why. You provided Nothing.
Because that is not what is being debated here you doofus... How are you this obtuse?BJJ34 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:12 pmSo where is being a savior to a franchise and winning three cups there, with a Gold Medal(game winner) not answering it?Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pm
Troll? That is what you are going with?
You did not answer the question. Hell, you did not even provide a logical retort.
You provided zero quantifiable reasons that Crosby will go down in history as being better than Ovechkin.
You only provided reasons why Crosby has been important to the Penguins. Team accomplishments are not individual accomplishments and I gave a perfect example why. You provided Nothing.
Crosby has meant more to Pittsburgh than Ovie has to Washington.
The argument is top 5 players all time. In my mind, being a top player means you did something for your city too, won cups, accolades outside of the normal leagues. Russia has been awful in international play. It’s a knock on both Malkin and Ovie, along with other top notch Russian talent.Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:22 pmBecause that is not what is being debated here you doofus... How are you this obtuse?
Again DD is trolling.kaimaru wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:02 pm Well other than GoalsPG, honestly Crosby on a per game basis is as good or in some cases, a LOT better than Ovie.
Career
PointsPG
Sidney Crosby 1.274 #7
Alex Ovechkin 1.108 #26
AssistsPG
Sidney Crosby .807 #8
Alex Ovechkin .495 #181
GoalsPG
Alex Ovechkin .613 #8
Sidney Crosby .467 #41
Shot%
Sidney Crosby 14.61 #198
Alex Ovechkin 12.8 #Notintop 250
GoalsCreatedPG
Alex Ovechkin .467 #14
Sidney Crosby 466 #15
+/-
Sidney Crosby 180 #91
Alex Ovechkin 82 #Notintop 250
The issue with all those stats is they are mostly Per Game percentages. I already said peak Crosby was better than peak Ovechkin. However Ovechkin has played over a 150 MORE games. you cant give someone a top 5 place if they can't stay on the ice.kaimaru wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:02 pm Well other than GoalsPG, honestly Crosby on a per game basis is as good or in some cases, a LOT better than Ovie.
Career
PointsPG
Sidney Crosby 1.274 #7
Alex Ovechkin 1.108 #26
AssistsPG
Sidney Crosby .807 #8
Alex Ovechkin .495 #181
GoalsPG
Alex Ovechkin .613 #8
Sidney Crosby .467 #41
Shot%
Sidney Crosby 14.61 #198
Alex Ovechkin 12.8 #Notintop 250
GoalsCreatedPG
Alex Ovechkin .467 #14
Sidney Crosby 466 #15
+/-
Sidney Crosby 180 #91
Alex Ovechkin 82 #Notintop 250
Jesus Christ I did not think it was true... but you are an idiot.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:16 amAgain DD is trolling.kaimaru wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:02 pm Well other than GoalsPG, honestly Crosby on a per game basis is as good or in some cases, a LOT better than Ovie.
Career
PointsPG
Sidney Crosby 1.274 #7
Alex Ovechkin 1.108 #26
AssistsPG
Sidney Crosby .807 #8
Alex Ovechkin .495 #181
GoalsPG
Alex Ovechkin .613 #8
Sidney Crosby .467 #41
Shot%
Sidney Crosby 14.61 #198
Alex Ovechkin 12.8 #Notintop 250
GoalsCreatedPG
Alex Ovechkin .467 #14
Sidney Crosby 466 #15
+/-
Sidney Crosby 180 #91
Alex Ovechkin 82 #Notintop 250
Crosby is the consensus Greatest player of his generation amongst all big Hockey minds.
It helps having Malkin on his team, but they rarely teamed up outside of the PP.
It was end of game scenarios where they put out the dual headed monster(legit what announcers call it).
Edit: and every weakness 87 has, he’s worked on. Faceoffs/defensive zone stuff. And on top of that… IS the epitome of Pens hockey. He’s the model for what is to be expected in the locker room.
Goal scoring is part of the game… yes. And Gretzky was incredible at every facet. He is the premier of hockey. One thing the Great One always lacked was hometown loyalty. He bounced around more than our board.Swashbuckler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:35 pm Look BJ I'm gonna be super nice about this. Every last word you said about Crosby is right. He is borderline generational and it is correct to put him into consideration of the best of the generation. But here's the thing dude. His one time arch-nemesis Alex Ovechkin might just break Gretzky's goal scoring record. My guy that is THE definition of generational. It will never happen again and no one else will come close if he actually does it.And IF he does no one is gonna give a fuck about Crosby anymore. His legacy will tied to how he had a better team around him than Ovechkin ever did and Connor McDavid will go on to shit on Crosby's career when it's all said and done.
Some of the guys to play with Crosby: Letang, Gonchar, Malkin, Fleury, Hossa, Kessel and out of sheer respect of what a baller he was, Petr Sykora. A who's who of the NHL
Ovechkin had Holtby, Backstrom, the corpse of Sergei Fedorov and the best defensemen in his career have been Carlson, Orpik and Niskanen. Maybe you can count T.J Oshie and coke machine Evgeny Kuznetsov as "having help"
The fact he might break a Gretzky record with that career cast is the hockey equivalent of the shit Tom Brady's been doing his whole career with nothing around him.
Fucking retarded.... This buffoon will just not look at it logically and clearly never will.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:30 amGoal scoring is part of the game… yes. And Gretzky was incredible at every facet. He is the premier of hockey. One thing the Great One always lacked was hometown loyalty. He bounced around more than our board.Swashbuckler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:35 pm Look BJ I'm gonna be super nice about this. Every last word you said about Crosby is right. He is borderline generational and it is correct to put him into consideration of the best of the generation. But here's the thing dude. His one time arch-nemesis Alex Ovechkin might just break Gretzky's goal scoring record. My guy that is THE definition of generational. It will never happen again and no one else will come close if he actually does it.And IF he does no one is gonna give a fuck about Crosby anymore. His legacy will tied to how he had a better team around him than Ovechkin ever did and Connor McDavid will go on to shit on Crosby's career when it's all said and done.
Some of the guys to play with Crosby: Letang, Gonchar, Malkin, Fleury, Hossa, Kessel and out of sheer respect of what a baller he was, Petr Sykora. A who's who of the NHL
Ovechkin had Holtby, Backstrom, the corpse of Sergei Fedorov and the best defensemen in his career have been Carlson, Orpik and Niskanen. Maybe you can count T.J Oshie and coke machine Evgeny Kuznetsov as "having help"
The fact he might break a Gretzky record with that career cast is the hockey equivalent of the shit Tom Brady's been doing his whole career with nothing around him.
Crosby and ovie have both brought cups to their franchises. 1 v 3 in terms of argument. And as for help, some of that is Ovie’s salary. Crosby took a team friendly 8.7 million dollar deal. Ovie was over 12 million. Plus that’s a GM’s job. Ovie could have asked for more help, but he mever did. Lemeuix being owner guaranteed he would spend the money to make Crosby and Malkin’s time worthwhile.
And yes I put Crosby up there amongst the greats. Malkin is a top 20 all time talent too.
BJ you are so all over the place. Crosby's "team friendly" deal was engineered by contract structures that are no longer allowed to exist. Ovechkin's cap hit never exceeded far above $9.5 million -a bargain for a player of his caliber. Who is to say Ovechkin never DID ask for help? He led his team in playoff scoring how many times? He also waited 13 years for someone, ANYONE who could be considered a 2nd line center until Kuznetsov finally developed. As for ownership, Lemieux vs Leonsis is not the difference between 1 Cup and 3 Cups. It's the difference that the Penguins secured the rights to their new arena and didn't get relocated. Coaching and the front office is. Save for Brian Burke, Jimmy Rutherford is the most aggressive GM the NHL has seen in the last 20-30 years easily. He traded and traded until he turned a stick of gum into back to back Stanley Cups and did it with arguably the best coach in the NHL in Sullivan. The Caps responded by letting Barry Trotz go to Long Island. So in other words dude, Ovechkin has been surrounded by incompetence his entire career and rewarded them with the greatest loyalty seen anywhere.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:30 amGoal scoring is part of the game… yes. And Gretzky was incredible at every facet. He is the premier of hockey. One thing the Great One always lacked was hometown loyalty. He bounced around more than our board.Swashbuckler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:35 pm Look BJ I'm gonna be super nice about this. Every last word you said about Crosby is right. He is borderline generational and it is correct to put him into consideration of the best of the generation. But here's the thing dude. His one time arch-nemesis Alex Ovechkin might just break Gretzky's goal scoring record. My guy that is THE definition of generational. It will never happen again and no one else will come close if he actually does it.And IF he does no one is gonna give a fuck about Crosby anymore. His legacy will tied to how he had a better team around him than Ovechkin ever did and Connor McDavid will go on to shit on Crosby's career when it's all said and done.
Some of the guys to play with Crosby: Letang, Gonchar, Malkin, Fleury, Hossa, Kessel and out of sheer respect of what a baller he was, Petr Sykora. A who's who of the NHL
Ovechkin had Holtby, Backstrom, the corpse of Sergei Fedorov and the best defensemen in his career have been Carlson, Orpik and Niskanen. Maybe you can count T.J Oshie and coke machine Evgeny Kuznetsov as "having help"
The fact he might break a Gretzky record with that career cast is the hockey equivalent of the shit Tom Brady's been doing his whole career with nothing around him.
Crosby and ovie have both brought cups to their franchises. 1 v 3 in terms of argument. And as for help, some of that is Ovie’s salary. Crosby took a team friendly 8.7 million dollar deal. Ovie was over 12 million. Plus that’s a GM’s job. Ovie could have asked for more help, but he mever did. Lemeuix being owner guaranteed he would spend the money to make Crosby and Malkin’s time worthwhile.
And yes I put Crosby up there amongst the greats. Malkin is a top 20 all time talent too.
Point's bread and butter has always been Kucherov feeding him into the slot on power plays. He's gonna have to get a little creative. However, that last goal he scored on a self created breakway was *chef's kiss* as long as Killorn and Stamkos can keep producing like this we're going to be okay.Digital_Damage wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:53 amFucking retarded.... This buffoon will just not look at it logically and clearly never will.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:30 am
Goal scoring is part of the game… yes. And Gretzky was incredible at every facet. He is the premier of hockey. One thing the Great One always lacked was hometown loyalty. He bounced around more than our board.
Crosby and ovie have both brought cups to their franchises. 1 v 3 in terms of argument. And as for help, some of that is Ovie’s salary. Crosby took a team friendly 8.7 million dollar deal. Ovie was over 12 million. Plus that’s a GM’s job. Ovie could have asked for more help, but he mever did. Lemeuix being owner guaranteed he would spend the money to make Crosby and Malkin’s time worthwhile.
And yes I put Crosby up there amongst the greats. Malkin is a top 20 all time talent too.
Time to turn the page on this....
The lightning are just fine. The first ten-fifteen games are always un predictable and the true contenders tend to get settled in shortly after.
Vasilevskiy had some stinkers to start the season but is now getting into the groove.
My worry is what is going on with Point?
He said cover your ass... lulz.BJJ34 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:11 am Want to discuss these GM’s having all sorts of sexual allegations against them. Chicago, Pittsburgh and then I read something about another Gm but am missing the team off the top of my head.
The Pittsburgh one took place in a car. The coach and his wife reported it but then Guerin told him to not. Guerin, now the GM of the Wild, was next in line for Team USA.
You all thought Sandusky was bad, but all I see from these situations is people trying to cover their organization’s asses. Right or wrong doesn’t matter in these instances, it’s all about their lifestyles being effected.
There are two pages of hockey talk. Mine being the majority of updates about the Pens. Which is relevant because the Pens and Lightning might end up playing each other in the playoffs at this rate.