What if....

[Pirate Life]

In light of current discussions here and elsewhere about Rodgers, I got to thinking. What is his place in the hierarchy of all-time greats if GB misses the 2010 playoffs?

Due to a badly blown call in the Bucs-Lions game, Bucs miss the playoffs and GB gets in. If the refs make the correct call, Bucs get in and GB missed out. One flag changed the entire course of that season. Who knows? With a playoff run, maybe Freeman stays sober. Bucs would have been the second seed, weak NFC field and maybe we reach our second SB sooner.

Definitely think Rodgers' reputation and status would not be anywhere near where it is if he has zero SB appearances.

Fun to think of where the NFL would be now.

Article for context: https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/6/27/18 ... ce-packers

[uscbucsfan]

He'd still be one of, if not the most, accurate and talented QB in history.

He's just really good at throwing a ball accurately to a level we've never seen before.

[Digital_Damage]

dumb thread... he is 5th all time in passing TD's , 10th in yards, 10th in completions. Even without the Super Bowls he will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Based on your premise you would say Marino or Moon are not considered some of the greatest ... which of course would be a stupid thing to say.

[King Bootz]

449 TDs to 93 INTs.

If that means nothing, throw the entire league away

[Pirate Life]

dumb thread... he is 5th all time in passing TD's , 10th in yards, 10th in completions. Even without the Super Bowls he will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Based on your premise you would say Marino or Moon are not considered some of the greatest ... which of course would be a stupid thing to say.

Marino made the Super Bowl though, Moon has the CFL championships. Rodgers has one SB appearance, which came about because of a bad call. I can recall people dismissing Peyton as an all-time great because of his failure to make the SB before he won one.

Rodgers also isn't in the top ten most accurate passers all-time and not in the top five still active in the game today.

Question isn't does it make him a bad QB. How much does winning the championship mean in this case? Is he still viewed as a top five all-time QB? Look at Rivers for instance. How does his career get looked at if the Chargers just make the SB?

[Pirate Life]

449 TDs to 93 INTs.

If that means nothing, throw the entire league away

Do you still consider him top five all-time without a ring or a SB appearance though?

[uscbucsfan]

Absolutely, I don't think it changes his position much. He is like Marino in the way he just plays the position at a level no one else can. He has like 30+ NFL records and most of them are related to passer rating and efficiency.

He's probably number 3 instead of 2 in his era without a SuperBowl for me, but he's still an all-time legendary talent.

As many put when McCarthy left, GB had a bottom 5 roster and Rodgers holding them together.

[Digital_Damage]

dumb thread... he is 5th all time in passing TD's , 10th in yards, 10th in completions. Even without the Super Bowls he will go down as one of the greatest ever.

Based on your premise you would say Marino or Moon are not considered some of the greatest ... which of course would be a stupid thing to say.

Marino made the Super Bowl though, Moon has the CFL championships. Rodgers has one SB appearance, which came about because of a bad call. I can recall people dismissing Peyton as an all-time great because of his failure to make the SB before he won one.

Rodgers also isn't in the top ten most accurate passers all-time and not in the top five still active in the game today.

Question isn't does it make him a bad QB. How much does winning the championship mean in this case? Is he still viewed as a top five all-time QB? Look at Rivers for instance. How does his career get looked at if the Chargers just make the SB?

No one gives a shit if "you made the super bowl" and we are talking about the nfl, not the CFL. Quit moving the goal post like a total fucking idiot.

Also, anyone that said Manning was not one of the greatest ever because he had not won a SuperBowl were also fucking idiots...

[uscbucsfan]

Marino made the Super Bowl though, Moon has the CFL championships. Rodgers has one SB appearance, which came about because of a bad call. I can recall people dismissing Peyton as an all-time great because of his failure to make the SB before he won one.

Rodgers also isn't in the top ten most accurate passers all-time and not in the top five still active in the game today.

Question isn't does it make him a bad QB. How much does winning the championship mean in this case? Is he still viewed as a top five all-time QB? Look at Rivers for instance. How does his career get looked at if the Chargers just make the SB?

No one gives a shit if "you made the super bowl" and we are talking about the nfl, not the CFL. Quit moving the goal post like a total fucking idiot.

Also, anyone that said Manning was not one of the greatest ever because he had not won a SuperBowl were also fucking idiots...

Manning had haters that were vocal.

If you use social media as a barometer, then Brady isn't a top 5 QB bc he cheats, needs the refs and a top 10 D to win(which isn't even correct).

[King Bootz]

449 TDs to 93 INTs.

If that means nothing, throw the entire league away

Do you still consider him top five all-time without a ring or a SB appearance though?

Yes

[uscbucsfan]

Like 3 or 4 years ago Brady said Rodgers is the only QB that he records his games and watches consistently because he can do things that he's never seen.

He said if he and Rodgers switched places he'd throw for 7,000 yards per year and have a ton of rings.

Other great QBs think Rodgers is all-time elite.

[Deja Entendu]

It wouldn’t really change my opinion of him. He’s been too good for too long to have that matter. Much like Marino.

I have him fifth and holding:
Brady
Montana
Manning
Marino
Rodgers

There’s nothing he can do to surpass any of those guys at this point as far as I’m concerned.

There’s also a case for Young, Brees, and Elway to be above him also, but I’d personally take him over those guys; however, it took me a while to put him over Young.

Honestly, I barely remember his SB. I do remember him pulling up on 3rd in Goal in a certain NFCCG though hahahaha

[wesmon]

As many put when McCarthy left, GB had a bottom 5 roster and Rodgers holding them together.

Like Seattle the past few seasons. Wilson has carried that team.

[Pirate Life]

Like 3 or 4 years ago Brady said Rodgers is the only QB that he records his games and watches consistently because he can do things that he's never seen.

He said if he and Rodgers switched places he'd throw for 7,000 yards per year and have a ton of rings.

Other great QBs think Rodgers is all-time elite.

He did say the part about the 7k yards, but he doesn't just watch Rodgers' film. He's talked in the past about watching Manning, Marino, Montana and Moon quite a bit as well. He did say if the Packers are on late he'll stay up past his 9 pm bedtime to watch them so there's that. IMO, Rodgers and Belichick would maybe have one or two glorious seasons before they would have to part ways. Boston's not big enough for those two egos to coexist for long. Brady's ego is one he can set aside to achieve the goals he wants, not sure Rodgers or Belichick can.

The funny thing about how other great qbs and coaches view Rodgers is that they say he's probably the most physically gifted QB but they tend to bring up his lack of championships and playoff success as things that drag his legacy down. Some put it on the team around him, others that the level of QB play in the NFL across the league makes it that much harder for QBs to win it all if they aren't Brady in NE (haven't seen a conversation since Brady came here and won). So other great QBs and coaches are dinging him for his postseason performance with one coach stating that where Rodgers ends up on the list of all-time greats will be affected by Green Bay's success in the playoffs in his final seasons.

Along the same lines as Bootz' idea that wins shouldn't be a qb stat, how important to a QB's legacy is playoff success?

[Pirate Life]

As many put when McCarthy left, GB had a bottom 5 roster and Rodgers holding them together.

This is said quite a bit, but I don't think it holds water. Davante Adams, David Bakhtiari, Aaron Jones, Jaire Alexander, Za'Darius Smith, Kenny Clark, Corey Lindsay ... that's not a bottom 5 roster. Several all-pros and pro bowls there and we haven't even put Rodgers on the list yet. This is a pretty good starting point on offense and defense. Top tier players at every level of the defense and a pretty damn solid o-line along with two of the better skill position players in the league.

[Digital_Damage]

Like 3 or 4 years ago Brady said Rodgers is the only QB that he records his games and watches consistently because he can do things that he's never seen.

He said if he and Rodgers switched places he'd throw for 7,000 yards per year and have a ton of rings.

Other great QBs think Rodgers is all-time elite.

He did say the part about the 7k yards, but he doesn't just watch Rodgers' film. He's talked in the past about watching Manning, Marino, Montana and Moon quite a bit as well. He did say if the Packers are on late he'll stay up past his 9 pm bedtime to watch them so there's that. IMO, Rodgers and Belichick would maybe have one or two glorious seasons before they would have to part ways. Boston's not big enough for those two egos to coexist for long. Brady's ego is one he can set aside to achieve the goals he wants, not sure Rodgers or Belichick can.

The funny thing about how other great qbs and coaches view Rodgers is that they say he's probably the most physically gifted QB but they tend to bring up his lack of championships and playoff success as things that drag his legacy down. Some put it on the team around him, others that the level of QB play in the NFL across the league makes it that much harder for QBs to win it all if they aren't Brady in NE (haven't seen a conversation since Brady came here and won). So other great QBs and coaches are dinging him for his postseason performance with one coach stating that where Rodgers ends up on the list of all-time greats will be affected by Green Bay's success in the playoffs in his final seasons.

Along the same lines as Bootz' idea that wins shouldn't be a qb stat, how important to a QB's legacy is playoff success?

Why are you being a doofus about this? You put out a subjective opinion (which is a fucking stupid one), then keep moving the goal post in some sort of alternate reality where you try to get people to say "hey Rodgers would not be great without that one Super Bowl run". He has been to the playoffs 12 times... the same as the ENTIRE Buccaneers history.

Just look at this thread... you hardly EVER see Bootz, USCbucsfan and myself agree on something.

However, I think we agree on two things. Rodgers is an all-time great even in your moronic alternate reality and you are a moron for even asking such a stupid question.

[13F11B]

Rodgers isn't even the best Packers QB of all time. Not sure why this is being discussed.

[Pirate Life]

He did say the part about the 7k yards, but he doesn't just watch Rodgers' film. He's talked in the past about watching Manning, Marino, Montana and Moon quite a bit as well. He did say if the Packers are on late he'll stay up past his 9 pm bedtime to watch them so there's that. IMO, Rodgers and Belichick would maybe have one or two glorious seasons before they would have to part ways. Boston's not big enough for those two egos to coexist for long. Brady's ego is one he can set aside to achieve the goals he wants, not sure Rodgers or Belichick can.

The funny thing about how other great qbs and coaches view Rodgers is that they say he's probably the most physically gifted QB but they tend to bring up his lack of championships and playoff success as things that drag his legacy down. Some put it on the team around him, others that the level of QB play in the NFL across the league makes it that much harder for QBs to win it all if they aren't Brady in NE (haven't seen a conversation since Brady came here and won). So other great QBs and coaches are dinging him for his postseason performance with one coach stating that where Rodgers ends up on the list of all-time greats will be affected by Green Bay's success in the playoffs in his final seasons.

Along the same lines as Bootz' idea that wins shouldn't be a qb stat, how important to a QB's legacy is playoff success?

Why are you being a doofus about this? You put out a subjective opinion (which is a fucking stupid one), then keep moving the goal post in some sort of alternate reality where you try to get people to say "hey Rodgers would not be great without that one Super Bowl run". He has been to the playoffs 12 times... the same as the ENTIRE Buccaneers history.

Just look at this thread... you hardly EVER see Bootz, USCbucsfan and myself agree on something.

However, I think we agree on two things. Rodgers is an all-time great even in your moronic alternate reality and you are a moron for even asking such a stupid question.

Haven't moved goal posts at all actually. Just a fun thought exercise, I think it's interesting that without the bad call in a game between two of the most sad sack franchises in history one of the most talented QBS ever would not have gotten to the big game in his career thus far.

Other part that hasn't been discussed is how it might have changed the trajectory of the Bucs. Second seed in the playoffs looks a lot different than no playoffs. As it was, most Bucs fans were very optimistic after the 2010 season without making the playoffs.

[Digital_Damage]

Rodgers isn't even the best Packers QB of all time. Not sure why this is being discussed.

And with that we have reached Full Retard...

[uscbucsfan]

Rodgers isn't even the best Packers QB of all time. Not sure why this is being discussed.

And with that we have reached Full Retard...

He hates Rodgers because of the COVID thing...

No logic there.

[13F11B]

Rodgers isn't even the best Packers QB of all time. Not sure why this is being discussed.

And with that we have reached Full Retard...

Again, another dick fart of a human attacks the messenger instead of asking the question necessary to have a discussion.

[13F11B]

And with that we have reached Full Retard...

He hates Rodgers because of the COVID thing...

No logic there.

I just have a different opinion. To me, Rodgers is #2 for the Packers QBs.

[uscbucsfan]

He hates Rodgers because of the COVID thing...

No logic there.

I just have a different opinion. To me, Rodgers is #2 for the Packers QBs.

Yes and we saw your rant as to why.

[Digital_Damage]

And with that we have reached Full Retard...

Again, another dick fart of a human attacks the messenger instead of asking the question necessary to have a discussion.

Have a lot of deep discussions about football with dummkopfs? Ya... me talking to you would be the same thing.

[13F11B]

Again, another dick fart of a human attacks the messenger instead of asking the question necessary to have a discussion.

Have a lot of deep discussions about football with dummkopfs? Ya... me talking to you would be the same thing.

Welcome to being my new target dumbass. For the record, I give Bart Starr the edge in being the best QB in Packers history. A stats comparison is impossible given the difference in how the games are played so don't go there. Is Rodgers a future hall of fame player, yes. Maybe you aren't a dumbass. Maybe you are just too young to remember any players from an earlier era of the NFL.

[13F11B]

I just have a different opinion. To me, Rodgers is #2 for the Packers QBs.

Yes and we saw your rant as to why.

I have had no rant about which Packers QB is the best Packers QB before. You are just making shit up like Bootz normally does. The two of you are a pairs of big talk no facts idiots.

[Digital_Damage]

Have a lot of deep discussions about football with dummkopfs? Ya... me talking to you would be the same thing.

Welcome to being my new target dumbass. For the record, I give Bart Starr the edge in being the best QB in Packers history. A stats comparison is impossible given the difference in how the games are played so don't go there. Is Rodgers a future hall of fame player, yes. Maybe you aren't a dumbass. Maybe you are just too young to remember any players from an earlier era of the NFL.

I'm sorry... who are you?

You know what, never mind. Not really interested getting into conversations with someone who's ASVAB score was so low they could only join the Army.

[uscbucsfan]

Yes and we saw your rant as to why.

I have had no rant about which Packers QB is the best Packers QB before. You are just making shit up like Bootz normally does. The two of you are a pairs of big talk no facts idiots.

You're an emotional poster, obviously. You had a rant about how Rodgers lied about getting vaxxed in regards to him not getting the MVP. You obviously can't be objective from your post history, so it's apparent as to why you don't have him as the best Packer QB.

If you have a good argument as to why he's not, lay it out, otherwise it seems you are confirming what others are saying.

Edit: So you have Starr first. Is your argument only on championships? If you were picking a Packers all-time team to play, you'd have him at QB over Rodgers or Favre? Why?

[13F11B]

Edit: So you have Starr first. Is your argument only on championships? If you were picking a Packers all-time team to play, you'd have him at QB over Rodgers or Favre? Why?

Bart Starr led the league in completion percentage four years while Aaron Rodgers only did that once. Bart Starr led the league in QB rating for four years which is the same as Rodgers. Given the closeness of other stats that cross eras, it is the 5 championships that put Starr over Rodgers as the best Packers QB. Asking if he would play QB over Favre or Rodgers is too difficult a question. I do not think Rodgers would have the success he has in the modern NFL if he was playing in Starr's era but who knows since the eras are so different. Not only does the style of play change but the number of games, etc.

[uscbucsfan]

Rodgers is the all-time best in QBR and td/int ratio through all the eras. Odd to point to completion % when Starr's was 57%, but the position has evolved Rodgers throws the football much better than Starr ever could.

Rodgers is absolutely the better QB historically.

[13F11B]

Rodgers is the all-time best in QBR and td/int ratio through all the eras. Odd to point to completion % when Starr's was 57%, but the position has evolved Rodgers throws the football much better than Starr ever could.

Rodgers is absolutely the better QB historically.

I pointed to leading the league in completion percentage, not completion percentage itself. Odd that you failed to read what was said.

If you want to make opinion statements such as Rodgers throws the football much better than Starr ever could feel free. I am not sure I can agree or disagree because the eras were so different. That is why I said looking at stats is almost pointless. You have your opinion. I have mine. I gave you my reasons.

[King Bootz]

Bart Starr??! Who the hell was around to watch Bart Starr play? What?!

[Snake]

I have Rodgers #2 all-time.

His aversion to throwing INTs is one of the greatest individual accomplishments in NFL history, to me.

25 - 2
26 - 4
48 - 5
37 - 4

^ throwing TDs to INTs the last four seasons. Balls bounce off helmets, they bounce off hands, QBs are hit mid-throw. There's ample opportunity to accidentally throw INTs every season. In addition to misreading coverage, not seeing a safety, and the other QB-is-at-fault incidents that lead to INTs. To throw the ball 550 times and only throw 4 interceptions...it breaks my brain.

Brady's durability, longevity, clutchness, leadership are also in that same stratosphere of impressive when viewed in totality. He's also demonstrated an ability to dominate statistically. Last season, 2007, etc. Being such a winner in a team sport puts him over Rodgers, for me, because final results matter. Simultaneously, I won't dispute the possibility of the league being equally or more fucked if Aaron was in New England back in the day, instead of Tom.

It's tough to compare eras. You don't want to punish the players of yesteryear for being/playing inferior athletes. So, I don't do that. However, I grade modern players on a curve supposing increased difficulty. One day in the future, people in the Metaverse will be dinging Brady and Rodgers for "only" playing against 320# anabolic using d-linemen. Not genetically engineered super humans who are 10' tall Usain Bolts.

[13F11B]

Here are a couple of videos for you.

[13F11B]

Bart Starr??! Who the hell was around to watch Bart Starr play? What?!

Another moronic response from one of the board dipshits. You can use this website called Youtube if you want to see some film.