MMA Thread:

[BJJ34]

You can absolutely see fighter endorsement contracts.

You keep pointing this at me ignoring everything else I'm saying. I don't know why I thought you would be able to have a real conversation.

When have fighters ever had endorsements thay were mainstream? And the UFC killed that anyway with Reebok(now Venum). We have Poirier owning his own Hot Sauce company. The Good Fight is making millions for kids.

I’m having a conversation. i’m just disputing what you’re saying. It’s not 2010 anymore but people are certainly interested. You’ve yet to address my “business plan for UFC is international growth” statement. That’s what they’re doing and it’s quite obvious. See Abu Dhabi.

[BJJ34]

And Terry…

Flyweight - Moreno
Bantamweight - sterling(disputed here)
Featherweight - Volkanovski
Lightweight -Oliviera
Welterweight- Kamaru
Middleweight - Izzy
Light Heavy - Jan Blavocivz
Heavy - Ngannou / Gane interim

Womens
Fly is Valentina
Rose is one of them
And nunes has the other two belts.

I’m admittedly against WMMA though.

[uscbucsfan]

You can absolutely see fighter endorsement contracts.

You keep pointing this at me ignoring everything else I'm saying. I don't know why I thought you would be able to have a real conversation.

When have fighters ever had endorsements thay were mainstream? And the UFC killed that anyway with Reebok(now Venum). We have Poirier owning his own Hot Sauce company. The Good Fight is making millions for kids.

I’m having a conversation. i’m just disputing what you’re saying. It’s not 2010 anymore but people are certainly interested. You’ve yet to address my “business plan for UFC is international growth” statement. That’s what they’re doing and it’s quite obvious. See Abu Dhabi.

I don't think you understand how big MMA was 2004-2016. Affliction, Tap Out, lists and lists of supplements, TV show appearances, Movie cameos, and yes, individual mainstream endorsements. Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, GSP, BJ Penn, SIlva, etc. all had mainstream endorsements. MMA was the fastest growing sport in the world. It's not anymore.

I'm ignoring your "international growth plan" because it's irrelevant to the conversation. The UFC and MMA's ratings/interest are down which is what we are talking about. Even if they are focusing on international growth, I repeat their viewership is down and has been, outside of Conor since 2016-ish, which seems to be where the UFC and MMA in general was at it's peak.

It's not an opinion that less are watching, legally or illegally, MMA in general. We can prove that. The question is why?

The number 1 thread on Sherdog a few days ago was people blaming the sale of the company for UFC's downfall, but I think it goes beyond that.

[Snake]

Khabib retires, there goes the Soviet bloc.
Conor retires, there goes half of Europe and probably half the American fans.

The NBA is also prone to this sort of thing. Michael Jordan retired and the NBA entered a dark period. Something similar will probably happen post-LeBron. They are more insulated now though.

[BJJ34]

When have fighters ever had endorsements thay were mainstream? And the UFC killed that anyway with Reebok(now Venum). We have Poirier owning his own Hot Sauce company. The Good Fight is making millions for kids.

I’m having a conversation. i’m just disputing what you’re saying. It’s not 2010 anymore but people are certainly interested. You’ve yet to address my “business plan for UFC is international growth” statement. That’s what they’re doing and it’s quite obvious. See Abu Dhabi.

I don't think you understand how big MMA was 2004-2016. Affliction, Tap Out, lists and lists of supplements, TV show appearances, Movie cameos, and yes, individual mainstream endorsements. Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, GSP, BJ Penn, SIlva, etc. all had mainstream endorsements. MMA was the fastest growing sport in the world. It's not anymore.

I'm ignoring your "international growth plan" because it's irrelevant to the conversation. The UFC and MMA's ratings/interest are down which is what we are talking about. Even if they are focusing on international growth, I repeat their viewership is down and has been, outside of Conor since 2016-ish, which seems to be where the UFC and MMA in general was at it's peak.

It's not an opinion that less are watching, legally or illegally, MMA in general. We can prove that. The question is why?

The number 1 thread on Sherdog a few days ago was people blaming the sale of the company for UFC's downfall, but I think it goes beyond that.

I’m aware of how big the UFC was. I’m also aware of how big Pride was. The sport has been around for roughly 27 years as we know it today. It’s constantly evolving. I don’t think we are even in a down period, but if others think so… so be it.

What I’m seeing is a passionate fanbase. Masvidal/Usman did 1.3 last year, correct? A JOURNEYMAN and Usman(arguably better than GSP’s run) did 1.3…

It’s not dying. There are endorsements. Ngannou was just in Fast Nine. The problem is there are few guys with marketability. The UFC won’t pay Cejudo, and he’s got charisma. Oliveira doesn’t move the needle, I’ll give you that… but hes an MMA fighters MMA fighter.
Disney wouldn’t have made ESPN+ without the acquisition of the UFC. It’s one of the major reasons to have it. And the sports media landscape has changed since then and you’re no longer the demographic they’re looking to target.

The young fanbase that starts looking to sports is seeing a path laid out by the greats. 16% of revenue going to fighters isnt helping and it’s not allowing guys to market themselves. You put some of these guys on a live mic… they sell. Tua in Heavyweight for example drinking shooeys.

There’s such a thing as overkill too and that’s the sports biggest problem. We see new fighters every week and it desensitizes you when you see an actual highlight.

I’m an avid fan and I could convince you there are multiple guys worth watching right meow.

[Terry Tate]

Khabib retires, there goes the Soviet bloc.
Conor retires, there goes half of Europe and probably half the American fans.

The NBA is also prone to this sort of thing. Michael Jordan retired and the NBA entered a dark period. Something similar will probably happen post-LeBron. They are more insulated now though.

I doubt it. It's been proven time and again that Lebron isn't Jordan. There are guys in the league right now that are more interesting than Lebron, like Giannis.

[BJJ34]

So I want to comment on the Contender Series which I watch weekly…

Some of these guys are immensely talented and could use the benefit of the UFC Training Institute, but jesus some of these guys are BAD. Dana has given out at least 5 contracts to guys who did not look good on the show. It’s making the sport suffer as it’s literally just filler.

If Volka gets by Ortega this weekend, I really want to see his camp push for a fight with AJ McKee. That “Bellator v UFC” could potentially sell. Dana hates Showtime. Showtime hates Dana. Let that sell itself a bit. Heat is always a good thing in the community. Any good sound bit is a good thing.

Also Canelo Alvarez is a punk. War Caleb Plant fucking him up somehow.(Plant is the only boxer I like as I’ve followed his fights on PBC).

[BJJ34]

USC, I know this is more of a promoter selling… but his words about MMA’s growth kinda dispute what you’re saying.

Plus the tale of Bisping is a good read.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/9/23/2 ... ller-flops

[uscbucsfan]

USC, I know this is more of a promoter selling… but his words about MMA’s growth kinda dispute what you’re saying.

Plus the tale of Bisping is a good read.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/9/23/2 ... ller-flops

There's no disputing what I'm saying.

That's what keeps going over your head.

I'm saying that ratings are down worldwide, money is down worldwide. This is quantifiable.

Less people/businesses are spending money on MMA on a regular basis than its peak from 2004-2016. That's my original statement.

[BJJ34]

USC, I know this is more of a promoter selling… but his words about MMA’s growth kinda dispute what you’re saying.

Plus the tale of Bisping is a good read.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/9/23/2 ... ller-flops

There's no disputing what I'm saying.

That's what keeps going over your head.

I'm saying that ratings are down worldwide, money is down worldwide. This is quantifiable.

Less people/businesses are spending money on MMA on a regular basis than its peak from 2004-2016. That's my original statement.

And when you can actually show that, I’ll believe it.

The tapology report you’ve shown is showing more money being spent now(you have to include the mcgregor cards, he’s an active fighter).

The sport is still growing.

[Primeminister]

USC, I know this is more of a promoter selling… but his words about MMA’s growth kinda dispute what you’re saying.

Plus the tale of Bisping is a good read.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/9/23/2 ... ller-flops

There's no disputing what I'm saying.

That's what keeps going over your head.

I'm saying that ratings are down worldwide, money is down worldwide. This is quantifiable.

Less people/businesses are spending money on MMA on a regular basis than its peak from 2004-2016. That's my original statement.

Where are you seeing the stats showing this?

[uscbucsfan]

There's no disputing what I'm saying.

That's what keeps going over your head.

I'm saying that ratings are down worldwide, money is down worldwide. This is quantifiable.

Less people/businesses are spending money on MMA on a regular basis than its peak from 2004-2016. That's my original statement.

Where are you seeing the stats showing this?

I've posted some of them. PPVs being way down from the average during the prime years of MMA.

There's others as far as web searches, total advertising dollars, media appearances as well.

[BJJ34]

Where are you seeing the stats showing this?

I've posted some of them. PPVs being way down from the average during the prime years of MMA.

There's others as far as web searches, total advertising dollars, media appearances as well.

So your argument is my doing the work even though I’ve pointed out how well Masvidal Usman did.

Go look at tapology… they may be more consistent 2008-2012, but the numbers are huge at points in 2016-2021.

The sport has more advertisers than ever. Venum pays more than Reebok. They have an exclusive contract with the world wide leader in sports and are a major factor in the ESPN+ model of Disney. They were on FX in the time you’re referencing. The ability to watch the sport is different now than then. Youtube views still show numbers for fights today.

McGregor(again who is STILL ACTIVE) is a “if he pisses in the wrong urinal it’s front page news” kinda guy. The biggest star the sport has ever seen.

Fighters then didn’t make what they make now either. Low card fighters are making something nowadays. 10-12k sucks for a pro athlete, but it’s better than 2k. It’s impossible to argue revenue without the actual statistics. ESPN seems to be genuinely happy with the UFC.

[uscbucsfan]

You are talking about 1 fighter and 2 other fights (ferguson/gaethje, too) compared to a time when every single card almost hit 1 million buys.

[BJJ34]

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/5/11/2 ... deavor-ipo

Interesting revenue increase for a down sport…..

[uscbucsfan]

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/5/11/2 ... deavor-ipo

Interesting revenue increase for a down sport…..

Did you read the entire thing?

Most of it is tied to the ESPN contract. The NBA set an all-time revenue number this year despite having HORRIBLE TV ratings. You wouldn't agree that interest in the league was down?

PPV fights and other media are WAY down from their peak. You can't just blame the pandemic or people not watching TV at all anymore either, because Conor fights set records.

You don't think this will be an issue when the ESPN contract comes up?

I was incorrect to say their money is down, because I somehow forgot about the ESPN contract, but popularity certainly is outside of Conor, Masvidal, and the Diaz brothers. Even you admitted this by calling people casuals not being interested in the current fighters.

The UFC needs an influx in stars, not talent otherwise there's no reason to believe this trend won't continue.

[BJJ34]

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/5/11/2 ... deavor-ipo

Interesting revenue increase for a down sport…..

Did you read the entire thing?

Most of it is tied to the ESPN contract. The NBA set an all-time revenue number this year despite having HORRIBLE TV ratings. You wouldn't agree that interest in the league was down?

PPV fights and other media are WAY down from their peak. You can't just blame the pandemic or people not watching TV at all anymore either, because Conor fights set records.

You don't think this will be an issue when the ESPN contract comes up?

I was incorrect to say their money is down, because I somehow forgot about the ESPN contract, but popularity certainly is outside of Conor, Masvidal, and the Diaz brothers. Even you admitted this by calling people casuals not being interested in the current fighters.

The UFC needs an influx in stars, not talent otherwise there's no reason to believe this trend won't continue.

Your argument is they need stars but have the biggest selling star in the world for combat sports.

TV ratings as a whole are down. AEW is killing it but only putting up 1.1 million viewers. Until Nielsen changes the way they do business, we wont know accurate streaming numbers. MMA stars can be born in a second too. Or can build legacy over a whole career.

[uscbucsfan]

Your argument is they need stars but have the biggest selling star in the world for combat sports.

TV ratings as a whole are down. AEW is killing it but only putting up 1.1 million viewers. Until Nielsen changes the way they do business, we wont know accurate streaming numbers. MMA stars can be born in a second too. Or can build legacy over a whole career.

Nielsen has nothing to do with PPV buys and streams are down, too...mostly the volume and ease to access is the reason IMO.

You don't think Conor is on the way out? And yes, again...during their prime UFC would almost hit 1 million views for every card. There were a ton of stars...and a ton of general interest. Now there's 1 massive one (the biggest ever for MMA) and 2-3 that can also sell depending on their match up.

[BJJ34]

Your argument is they need stars but have the biggest selling star in the world for combat sports.

TV ratings as a whole are down. AEW is killing it but only putting up 1.1 million viewers. Until Nielsen changes the way they do business, we wont know accurate streaming numbers. MMA stars can be born in a second too. Or can build legacy over a whole career.

Nielsen has nothing to do with PPV buys and streams are down, too.

You don't think Conor is on the way out? And yes, again...during their prime UFC would almost hit 1 million views for every card. There were a ton of stars...and a ton of general interest. Now there's 1 massive one (the biggest ever for MMA) and 2-3 that can also sell depending on their match up.

Nielsen has to do with their free(cable) showings/prelims. If ratings for those go up, ratings for PPV buys go up too.

And there are arguably a couple stars right now, buying power wise just arent there for PPVs. And this is because of the UFC. The NFL does an EXCELLENT job of selling their talent given their opportunities. You get Jon Anik spouting off about their divorces instead of their actual training/lives.

And 7 years ago no one was bigger than Ronda Rousey. Everyone said the sport would die off after her removal. The WMMA train has continued to build, even with a lot of people having similar ideas on WMMA as me. Amanda Nunes is a huge star, most people know her name… she’s just too dominant.

The UFC needs competition to generate buzz too. I liken the UFC to WWE in a lot of ways. The sport buzzes when someone else is doing something, it puts the limelight on “can we match their energy”. Pride made the UFC better. WEC made the UFC better. Strikeforce made the UFC better.

Is bellator making the UFC better? No. For the most part their just paying their over valued guys. And Dana believes young fighters pay the bills not washed up guys.

[BJJ34]

Jon Jones arrested again…

Insert any number of jokes about Jon instead of actually trying to help the dude.

[uscbucsfan]

Jon Jones arrested again…

Insert any number of jokes about Jon instead of actually trying to help the dude.

Much like others, he doesn't want help and doesn't think he needs it.

I think it's likely safe to say his career is done. Personally, I think he's the GOAT. I know many use his failed test against him, but most fighters were or are on PEDs, they are just smarter about it.

[Snake]

God is just testing Jon. Again. And again. And again.

[BJJ34]

Jon Jones arrested again…

Insert any number of jokes about Jon instead of actually trying to help the dude.

Much like others, he doesn't want help and doesn't think he needs it.

I think it's likely safe to say his career is done. Personally, I think he's the GOAT. I know many use his failed test against him, but most fighters were or are on PEDs, they are just smarter about it.

Jones is the GOAT by a wide margin. No one really tested him pre-Gus and that was when he started getting into trouble. He has said multiple times that he would only be good on fight night if he got to party the weekend before. Get it all out of the way and let him clear his mind.

That being said, man. Dude has it all talent wise and an ability to get in trouble more than my dad.

https://passionbasedmma.wordpress.com/2 ... h-ufc-266/ for you USC on why you should watch this shit tomorrow.

[Primeminister]

Valentina is just too damn good. Beautiful work.

[BJJ34]

Valentina is just too damn good. Beautiful work.

She’s just too small for Nunes though I’d love a trilogy.

[Primeminister]

Valentina is just too damn good. Beautiful work.

She’s just too small for Nunes though I’d love a trilogy.

Yeah the size difference is too much. The talent levels match, but the size will less to a loss.

[BJJ34]

Dan Hooker stepping up to face Islam Mackachev.

Really ballsy on his part.

Greg Hardy’s next fight booked too. Olienik.

Bellator tomorrow. Lima/MVP 2.should be fun. MVP is always wild to watch.

[Primeminister]

Dan Hooker stepping up to face Islam Mackachev.

Really ballsy on his part.

Greg Hardy’s next fight booked too. Olienik.

Bellator tomorrow. Lima/MVP 2.should be fun. MVP is always wild to watch.

Hooker vs Islam is going to be a banger.

[BJJ34]

Agreed.

Apparently Lima/MVP2 is today at 4PM. Reason 2736637272 Bellator sucks

[Primeminister]

Agreed.

Apparently Lima/MVP2 is today at 4PM. Reason 2736637272 Bellator sucks

I want Bellator to be great, but I’m not sure what I’d suggest they change. What would you have them do differently?

[Snake]

Bethe Correira still getting fights shows how far UFC still has to go. Just terrible.

[BJJ34]

Agreed.

Apparently Lima/MVP2 is today at 4PM. Reason 2736637272 Bellator sucks

I want Bellator to be great, but I’m not sure what I’d suggest they change. What would you have them do differently?

Similar changes to UFC. 5 round non title fights for big feel fights. Different advertising avenues. Their team doesnt generate interest.

[Primeminister]

I want Bellator to be great, but I’m not sure what I’d suggest they change. What would you have them do differently?

Similar changes to UFC. 5 round non title fights for big feel fights. Different advertising avenues. Their team doesnt generate interest.

Also stop protecting fighters like MVP.

[uscbucsfan]

Similar changes to UFC. 5 round non title fights for big feel fights. Different advertising avenues. Their team doesnt generate interest.

Also stop protecting fighters like MVP.

I lean to him not being great, but it's hard to tell until we see him fight someone good and willing to engage. He's quick and does crazy shit, but he's wildly inaccurate.

I honestly thought he lost against Lima. All but 1 of his knockdowns were just running into an off-balance Lima. He barely landed a punch... Lima was equally inpet outside if his 2 take downs and the 1 almost knockout.

[BJJ34]

MVP is talented, he’s just someoneI’d imagine no one wants to train with because he’s all stupid shit constantly.