Carlton Davis traded to Lions

[Grahamburn]

A contrarian take? I am surprised.

A 3rd and the pleasure of paying him a massive contract I’m sure.

The only contrarian take here would be thinking Sneed isn't worth the contract OR a 2025 3rd.

Also you need to look up the word contrarian because you clearly used it incorrectly here.

I will look it up and report back. Stand by.

[Bootz]

It's literally the same round .

But it's you. Wouldn't be LUGZ without some delusional take.

But different years. 2024 picks are more valuable than 2025 picks for us.

And please don't pretend like you would be happy with what the Chiefs got instead. It's really disingenuous.

We got the better deal given the context of our team heading into 2024.

No need. I’ll just save this for next year when you’re pounding the table for us to get rid of our 2025 picks because of how useless they are.

[Doctor]

Yes I consider a 2024 3rd round pick to be more than a 2025 pick.

Because it is. He knows it too. Let him keep pouring down his own shorts if he wants.

RT

[Bootz]

Because it is. He knows it too. Let him keep pouring down his own shorts if he wants.

RT

One would wonder why you're not championing for us to trade away our 2025 draft picks for picks & players THIS year.

I suppose you could say we are. Seeing as you believe using 2 6ths along with Carlton Davis to get a 3rd is great business.

[mdb1958]

RT

One would wonder why you're not championing for us to trade away our 2025 draft picks for picks & players THIS year.

I suppose you could say we are. Seeing as you believe using 2 6ths along with Carlton Davis to get a 3rd is great business.

Just did an auto sim and Licht did it again - 57,89,92 to the Bengals for 37 Darius Robinson.

[Doctor]

Love it

[Bootz]

One would wonder why you're not championing for us to trade away our 2025 draft picks for picks & players THIS year.

I suppose you could say we are. Seeing as you believe using 2 6ths along with Carlton Davis to get a 3rd is great business.

Just did an auto sim and Licht did it again - 57,89,92 to the Bengals for 37 Darius Robinson.

2 3rds alone should net you a 2nd if you know what you're doing as a GM.

[Doctor]

[Four Verticals]

Just did an auto sim and Licht did it again - 57,89,92 to the Bengals for 37 Darius Robinson.

2 3rds alone should net you a 2nd if you know what you're doing as a GM.

Barely. Last pick of round 2 or 1st of the 3rd round. To get to 37 with the picks the Bucs currently have, they can use 80,92 and 57 but should also get back an early 4th to even it out.

[Bucsfan83]

Davis is done! 58 PFF grade!

Oh wait, Zyon’s was 52.

It's okay though. Zyon is young, cheap and Jason Licht drafted him.

So side grade, with more upside, less wear on tire. Less cap hit, and draft picks from trading. You have a problem with this how? Oh yeah, possible FA / Draft also.

[Onthebrink]

It's okay though. Zyon is young, cheap and Jason Licht drafted him.

So side grade, with more upside, less wear on tire. Less cap hit, and draft picks from trading. You have a problem with this how? Oh yeah, possible FA / Draft also.

The problem occurs when Jamel Dean gets injured next season and Zyon becomes the primary. If a rookie or FA is bad then it is going to force Bowles into putting Winfield back into the slot. The Whitehead signing makes that scenario a much higher possibility. It is not as if the pass rush has gotten better by letting Shaq go. Relying on rookies is not a promising situation to be in. Not accepting the possibility that this might have been a good trade is not being objective. Until next season we will not know but blindly accepting that this was a slam dunk maneuver by Licht is also not being objective.

[Snake]

It’s also just untrue. More upside? Carlton Davis - when used properly - is one of the 32 best cornerbacks in the NFL.

Zyon is super athletic. But there’s more to it than that.

If the Buccaneers had a need for cornerback during the Super Bowl run, and traded a third round pick for Carlton Davis. We would be over the moon.

[Bootz]

It’s also just untrue. More upside? Carlton Davis - when used properly - is one of the 32 best cornerbacks in the NFL.

Zyon is super athletic. But there’s more to it than that.

If the Buccaneers had a need for cornerback during the Super Bowl run, and traded a third round pick for Carlton Davis. We would be over the moon.

The determining factor here is only which side of the equation we're on here. Had the shoes been on the opposing feet, people here would've been over the moon because we got "a younger talented corner in his prime" and "only" for a 3rd plus adding 2 additional picks.

People are high on Zyon because Licht drafted him. No other reason. Had he been drafted anywhere else, not 1 person would be mentioning him (@mdb1958 maybe) as a potential starter.

[Cheb]

It’s also just untrue. More upside? Carlton Davis - when used properly - is one of the 32 best cornerbacks in the NFL.

Zyon is super athletic. But there’s more to it than that.

If the Buccaneers had a need for cornerback during the Super Bowl run, and traded a third round pick for Carlton Davis. We would be over the moon.

The determining factor here is only which side of the equation we're on here. Had the shoes been on the opposing feet, people here would've been over the moon because we got "a younger talented corner in his prime" and "only" for a 3rd plus adding 2 additional picks.

People are high on Zyon because Licht drafted him. No other reason. Had he been drafted anywhere else, not 1 person would be mentioning him (@mdb1958 maybe) as a potential starter.

Zyon as a potential starter? My brother in Christ, Zyon started 9 out of 17 games last season -- he already is a starter.

Who tied for fourth on the team last year in solo tackles with Devin White? Zyon McCollum. Who led our corners in tackles last year? Zyon McCollum. Who was second on the team in PBUs behind our All-Pro free safety? Zyon McCollum. Who tied for third on the team in forced fumbles? Zyon McCollum.

And who had the highest Relative Athletic Score amongst the 2001 draft-eligible cornerbacks between 1987 and 2022, making him the most athletic cornerback prospect of the last 25 years? Damn right, it was Zyon McCollum.

Your argument would hold weight if it were true, but it is not. Zyon just ain't some scrub, he's a good football player who is only getting better with time. Zyon would have won my vote for most improved defensive player last year, and I expect him to play even better this season. His stock is trending in the right direction.

[Babeinbucland]

Who has an adorable smile? Zyon McCollum (I was feeling left out of this discussion)

[Bootz]

The determining factor here is only which side of the equation we're on here. Had the shoes been on the opposing feet, people here would've been over the moon because we got "a younger talented corner in his prime" and "only" for a 3rd plus adding 2 additional picks.

People are high on Zyon because Licht drafted him. No other reason. Had he been drafted anywhere else, not 1 person would be mentioning him (@mdb1958 maybe) as a potential starter.

Zyon as a potential starter? My brother in Christ, Zyon started 9 out of 17 games last season -- he already is a starter.

Who tied for fourth on the team last year in solo tackles with Devin White? Zyon McCollum. Who led our corners in tackles last year? Zyon McCollum. Who was second on the team in PBUs behind our All-Pro free safety? Zyon McCollum. Who tied for third on the team in forced fumbles? Zyon McCollum.

And who had the highest Relative Athletic Score amongst the 2001 draft-eligible cornerbacks between 1987 and 2022, making him the most athletic cornerback prospect of the last 25 years? Damn right, it was Zyon McCollum.

Your argument would hold weight if it were true, but it is not. Zyon just ain't some scrub, he's a good football player who is only getting better with time. Zyon would have won my vote for most improved defensive player last year, and I expect him to play even better this season. His stock is trending in the right direction.

He did all of that on the 32nd ranked passing defense. If you were to rank the 64 starting corners in football, Zyon would be somewhere in the late 50s at the very best.

I get that we drafted him. He's a Buc. So people will try to paint the prettiest picture. But c'mon Cheb. Let's not pretend Zyon has been anything decent.

[Cheb]

Zyon as a potential starter? My brother in Christ, Zyon started 9 out of 17 games last season -- he already is a starter.

Who tied for fourth on the team last year in solo tackles with Devin White? Zyon McCollum. Who led our corners in tackles last year? Zyon McCollum. Who was second on the team in PBUs behind our All-Pro free safety? Zyon McCollum. Who tied for third on the team in forced fumbles? Zyon McCollum.

And who had the highest Relative Athletic Score amongst the 2001 draft-eligible cornerbacks between 1987 and 2022, making him the most athletic cornerback prospect of the last 25 years? Damn right, it was Zyon McCollum.

Your argument would hold weight if it were true, but it is not. Zyon just ain't some scrub, he's a good football player who is only getting better with time. Zyon would have won my vote for most improved defensive player last year, and I expect him to play even better this season. His stock is trending in the right direction.

He did all of that on the 32nd ranked passing defense. If you were to rank the 64 starting corners in football, Zyon would be somewhere in the late 50s at the very best.

I get that we drafted him. He's a Buc. So people will try to paint the prettiest picture. But c'mon Cheb. Let's not pretend Zyon has been anything decent.

The Bucs had the 32nd ranked pass defense in the NFL last season? That sounds fishy. Let's check. Per ESPN:

Passing yards per game allowed, 29th. Yards per completion allowed, 25th. Passing TDs allowed and completion percentage and passer rating allowed, 21st. Interceptions, 18th. Sacks, 10th.

Not only were the Bucs not the worst passing defense in the league last year, they didn't rank last in any pass defense category in the NFL. They weren't great admittedly, but they certainly weren't the worst in the league as you claim. I'd say the Commanders wore that particular crown, allowing the most passing TDs and passing yards and highest QB rating in the league, but what do I know?

As for Zyon, he's a good player who is entering his third season. I believe in him, as he's already shown admirable play and he still has plenty of room to grow his game.

You should believe in him too.

[GreatTimes]

Cheb wrote: "Passing yards per game allowed, 29th. Yards per completion allowed, 25th. Passing TDs allowed and completion percentage and passer rating allowed, 21st. Interceptions, 18th. Sacks, 10th."

Except for the sacks, that isn't good.

[Grahamburn]

Cheb wrote: "Passing yards per game allowed, 29th. Yards per completion allowed, 25th. Passing TDs allowed and completion percentage and passer rating allowed, 21st. Interceptions, 18th. Sacks, 10th."

Except for the sacks, that isn't good.

For a guy calling others out for every little metric mistake they make he should be more careful.

[13F11B]

Just did an auto sim and Licht did it again - 57,89,92 to the Bengals for 37 Darius Robinson.

2 3rds alone should net you a 2nd if you know what you're doing as a GM.

So you are saying that the auto-sim does not know what it is doing as a GM. That certainly helped the conversation along.

[CannonFire]

I think it's faulty logic to call the Bucs pass defense terrible... nor do I think you can say any one particular player was good or bad, based on counting numbers. The issue here is that ranking things like passing yards, passing TD's, etc, is that you're ranking them based on volume. It's not that teams knew they could pass on us with "great" success, it's because they knew they couldn't run against us with any success. Last year, teams ran against us 422 times (9th fewest), for 1620 yards (5th fewest), averaging 3.84 yards per carry (8th fewest). That's why teams passed on us 611 times (27th most) for 4232 yards (29th most), which when it comes to AY/A, the Bucs pass defense still managed to be around half, ranking 17th. Our defense gave up 19.1 ppg, that was 7th best in the NFL. Overall, our defense was good... our run defense was the better of the two, but the pass defense was still pretty solid. They weren't bad, they weren't great.