Are we ready to be honest yet?

[Bootz]

I'm the biggest Brady fan. But being honest he wasn't doing what Mahomes is. This also doesn't include the 6 Pro Bowls & 2 league MVP awards Mahomes has.

The only legitimate argument at this point that Brady has is longevity. I doubt Mahomes plays 23 seasons. But I don't think 7 is the number that needs to be reached to solidify that Patrick Mahomes is the best.

[Snake]

Mahomes was fortunate to come into the league playing under a renowned offensive coach, who built him into the offensive engine for a great team. he had Hall of Famers around him, including Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce. The GM was also incredible and built a dominant defense as the team transitioned away from amazing weapons into a well-rounded roster. Mahomes also came up during a new offensive milieu where the throwing game benefited from widespread philosophical and rule changes. Regardless, Mahomes has established himself as inevitable. Mounting historic comebacks in the playoffs. Having a phenomenal record while down multiple possessions. To the point where, you’re afraid to give him the ball back while up seven points with 50 seconds left. because deep down everyone knows he’s going get eight points in those 50 seconds. In part because he’s phenomenal in every way. Improvisational skills, arm talent, protecting the football, using his feet. in part because Andy Reid is a goat level play caller. Patrick Mahomes ran into a great defense in 2020 in the Super Bowl. He had one of the most impressive shows of quarterback talent in the modern era during that game. But producing a paltry nine points. Do we hold that loss against Mahomes? It’s hard to do that. We all know he’s not the reason they lost the game. The same way we know Tom Brady wasn’t the reason the patriots lost to the Eagles in the Super Bowl.

Brady was fortunate to be drafted by the greatest defensive coach in history, who also has a great understanding of special teams. He was not an offensive engine. He matured and developed himself into an elite thrower of the football. Perhaps better than anyone during his zenith. Throwing 50 touchdowns in 2007 and getting his version of the track meet offenses later in his career. If it were not for elite special teams and defensive play, he would not have at least a couple of his rings. Including the ring against the McVay Rams. He was deprived of a ring because his team couldn’t stop the Eagles. 500 yards of offense and three touchdowns. no ring. His attention to detail, leadership, while paired with his elite, throwing ability later in his career, make him inevitable as well.


I think Mahomes has some catching up to do. And it’s entirely possible he does so, quickly. It’s also possible he doesn’t win a Super Bowl for another decade (or ever again). I have no problem with anyone taking Brady or him to win a game. Today.

They’ve taken different paths to their success so far. And I think it’s obvious to anyone paying attention that they lose games because of other aspects of their team. Not because of them. They elevate their teammates. They are inevitable. If you leave the door open. The trick is not leaving the door open.

Play in enough Super Bowls, and you will win some that you should lose. And you will lose some that you should win. It’s the consequence of fine margins of performance: luck, the wind is blowing weird that day, the idiot kicker didn’t get enough sleep, you throw a perfect pass and your teammate drops it…

They’re both great. we’re lucky to watch them.

(the 49ers win that game last night if Tom Brady is playing for them)

[uscbucsfan1]

Damn good post, @Snake

[BuccaNOLEer]

This is a very good thread to read. Makes you think. And even if Mahomes doesn't play 23 seasons, it's still very possible he could break all of Brady's records.

[Bootz]

1 thing we've never seen thus far is a loss before the AFC Championship game. 1-0 in the Wildcard round. 6-0 in the divisional round.

This season was Mahomes at his worst and all he did was win the Superbowl & Superbowl MVP award for the 3rd time.

Do we ever see those letdown games? Brady had his share. Probably the worst playoff game he ever played was 2010 home divisional game against the Ravens. I believe he threw 3 picks and a fumble. They were smothering that day.

Mahomes worst game was the one @Snake mentioned against us in the Superbowl. It just seems like an impossible task to beat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

[BuccaNOLEer]

1 thing we've never seen thus far is a loss before the AFC Championship game. 1-0 in the Wildcard round. 6-0 in the divisional round. This season was Mahomes at his worst and all he did was win the Superbowl & Superbowl MVP award for the 3rd time.

These Chiefs are like the 90's Chicago Bulls. The regular season doesn't matter. If they make the playoffs, they will take their game to a whole other level.

[Snake]

Perused some 49ers fan communities and I cannot help but laugh at some of the posts.

“I STAND WITH BROCK PURDY!”

Lol okay.

[Bootz]

Perused some 49ers fan communities and I cannot help but laugh at some of the posts.

“I STAND WITH BROCK PURDY!”

Lol okay.

Brock will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy G. Kyle might finally see that he's not getting over the hump with him so he'll go after a shinier toy. The last one was Trey Lance. No telling who the next one might be.

[BuccaNOLEer]

Perused some 49ers fan communities and I cannot help but laugh at some of the posts.

“I STAND WITH BROCK PURDY!”

Lol okay.

Brock will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy G. Kyle might finally see that he's not getting over the hump with him so he'll go after a shinier toy. The last one was Trey Lance. No telling who the next one might be.

Kyle is not getting over the hump with anyone. That guy is softer than baby shit. He blew the 2016 Super Bowl in Atlanta as their OC. Roddy White almost went after him physically. Now he's blown two chances in San Fran. Eventually, their cap situation is going to catch up with them.

[Grahamburn]

Perused some 49ers fan communities and I cannot help but laugh at some of the posts.

“I STAND WITH BROCK PURDY!”

Lol okay.

Brock will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy G. Kyle might finally see that he's not getting over the hump with him so he'll go after a shinier toy. The last one was Trey Lance. No telling who the next one might be.

Maybe they get into the bidding for Fields? Purdy looked over-matched.

[acmillis]

People saying Shanny blew this game...
I mean, if the kicker makes the XP, it is curtains for the Chiefs.

[Grahamburn]

People saying Shanny blew this game...
I mean, if the kicker makes the XP, it is curtains for the Chiefs.

And a punt hitting a guy.

I don’t agree that the chiefs couldn’t have scored a TD to win it though. They may have. But, I’ll agree that was a big point. Those always loom large.

[Bootz]

People saying Shanny blew this game...
I mean, if the kicker makes the XP, it is curtains for the Chiefs.

Maybe, maybe not. Reid likely got for the TD on 4th & goal from the 6 if it's 17-13. Anything can happen there. Penalty on defense, TD, turnover even. No way to say for sure that it's curtains for Patrick Mahomes.

[Bootz]

Brock will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy G. Kyle might finally see that he's not getting over the hump with him so he'll go after a shinier toy. The last one was Trey Lance. No telling who the next one might be.

Maybe they get into the bidding for Fields? Purdy looked over-matched.

Could be. Or Cousins. He seemed to be fine dancing at the NFL Honors.

All I know is I doubt Kyle goes into 2024 with Brock as his unquestioned starter

[uscbucsfan1]

Mahomes worst game was the one @Snake mentioned against us in the Superbowl. It just seems like an impossible task to beat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

He had a really bad half against the Bengals in the AFC Championship, still almost won.

Against us, even our players were going crazy about the things he was doing. He was spectacular, but the team failed him.

[Deja Entendu]

What are supposed to be honest about? Mahomes is incredible. Only fools deny that.

He’s still not the GOAT. I agree with most here that he doesn’t need 7 to catch him, but I personally don’t think he ever catches him regardless.

Comparing his pre-30’s stats to Brady is apples to oranges, but I get it. Overall @Snake was pretty spot on.

The legend of Brady isn’t just the 7 rings, it’s the come backs, the determination to get better, then becoming the best, and the continued excellence… with an ever changing supporting cast. For literal decades.

20+ years of dominance, 7 rings, 16-0 (even falling short), and 28-3 will be talked about as long as there is pro football… maybe pro sports.

Brady already climbed the mountain, and was then able to leave the Greatest HC of all time to take a bottom dwelling team to the promised land… in one season… with NO real TC or pre-season. He literally did that on the fly. Its almost mythical.

Mahomes and Reid do have a very real shot to do something Brady (and Belichick) never did, by getting a 3-peat. That’ll be a huge weighted check in his column for sure.

Reid may not be around much longer. Kelce either. It’ll be interesting to see what he does without them. Success will be necessary to his legacy.

Time will tell…

[Deja Entendu]

It’s had to have crossed Brady’s mind to come back for one more year to stop the 3-peat, right? I know I’d be tempted.

[Doctor]

Brady didn't have an offensive HC until he was 45. Can you imagine his stats if he had Arians from the start? Probably insane.

With that said, probably only 2 rings. Same thing for BB, maybe 2 rings off that defense and Bledsoe. Together they paired perfectly to do what matters most, winning chips. And 3 is a far far way away from 7. Life after Kelce? Life after Reid? Life after a major injury? There is a lot of career and adversity yet to come for Mahomes.

Want to say Mahomes is more exciting? Sure. The FIT with Reid is insane. Of course it's electric. But lets breath. 31 other teams are still hungry.

[Miller4Prez64]

There is no denying that Mahomes is putting up better numbers early on, but the league has also changed a lot since Brady was young. QBs these days are going to throw more yards and TDs than guys from 20 years ago.

IMO Mahomes’ ability to wrestle GOAT status will depend on the end of his career. Brady earned his GOAT status with his incredible longevity.

[Doctor]

And the thing was he was insane throughout. He should've been MVP at 45. That's wild. Also, one of my heavy markers for GOAT, he did it for TWO regimes.

[uscbucsfan1]

Teddy Bruschi was asked the same thing yesterday and he said what most are saying. He said (summarized) Tom was a scout team QB that worked his ass off. Even in their first SB, he threw 1 TD pass in the entire playoffs. He said they didn't want or need him to be anything more, but as time went on he developed into a great QB, while Mahomes was a great QB year 1 of starting and has better natural tools. He said, of course Mahomes has the better first 6 years, but Tom's longevity, growth, adaptation of the game and different teams he faced are what made a career and while Mahomes is already on Mt. Rushmore as far as all-time greats (he has Mahomes 2nd overall), he's not Tom, yet.

He also said that we'll see even more hate for Mahomes/Chiefs going forward because people hate winners. Just like with the Pats.

[uscbucsfan1]

We had this discussion before. My summarized stance (hasn't changed with the 3rd SB).

Mahomes is either 2 or 3 all-time already at 28, which is crazy and cool that we get to watch.

He's had a better and more impactful (meaning he contributed more to the Chiefs' winning than Brady did on the Pats in the beginning) start than Brady.

He has a long way to go to catch Brady, but it's possible...although improbable.

[Doctor]

The thing that's incredible is how quickly Mahomes has come in and bitch slapped the careers of dudes like Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Young, Aikman... hell pretty much every QB except maybe Montana has been wiped off the floor in a mere 6 years.

Honestly, it's like they introduced the new OP character to the TV show.

[uscbucsfan1]

The thing that's incredible is how quickly Mahomes has come in and bitch slapped the careers of dudes like Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Young, Aikman... hell pretty much every QB except maybe Montana has been wiped off the floor in a mere 6 years.

Honestly, it's like they introduced the new OP character to the TV show.

That certainly didn't take long.

[Bootz]

[Bootz]

The thing that's incredible is how quickly Mahomes has come in and bitch slapped the careers of dudes like Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, Young, Aikman... hell pretty much every QB except maybe Montana has been wiped off the floor in a mere 6 years.

Honestly, it's like they introduced the new OP character to the TV show.

That certainly didn't take long.

Damn I saw that all last week and thought it was fake. I didn't know he said that for real. Wow that's embarrassing lol.

[Four Verticals]

Brock will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy G. Kyle might finally see that he's not getting over the hump with him so he'll go after a shinier toy. The last one was Trey Lance. No telling who the next one might be.

Maybe they get into the bidding for Fields? Purdy looked over-matched.

I have my doubts that the Niners share the evaluation of Purdy quite the same as some of the comments about him which are only rivaled by the equally idiotic "he's a top 5 guy" from those who like them.

He's pretty good, not (possibly yet) upper echelon and doesn't need to be replaced.

[Four Verticals]

As to Mahomes....he's better at this stage of his career than Brady was. Oddly, most of Brady's career when he was at his absolute best were years the Pats didn't win.

It would be out of the box for Mahomes to play for as long as Brady does and also just as unlikely that the Chiefs remain at the top as long as the Pats did as both of those circumstances were anomalies.

If Mahomes were to get one more and be 4-0 such as Montana, I think he then is legitimately in consideration for the Goat....and that's not to say his name shouldn't already be brought up.

[Doctor]

Kyle sets aside his ego and signs Brady they probably have a 3peat in SF. No one has defeated Kyle as much as Kyle has.

[Snake]

AFC Championship, 2019. Brady vs Mahomes.

It's the fourth quarter. Patriots are down 24-28. Patriots get the ball with 2 mins from their own 20. This is where they score a touchdown, and win the game. Easy, right?

Patriots drive the field. It's now 3rd & 10 at KC 34, clock is stopped with 54 seconds left. The following happens:

Brady pass short right intended for R.Gronkowski INTERCEPTED by C.Ward at KC 30. C.Ward to KC 36 for 6 yards.

Welp, game over, right? Nope.

PENALTY on KC-D.Ford, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at KC 34. Negating the interception.

Patriots keep driving and end up banging in a touchdown with 39 seconds left. Go up 31-28.

Game over, right? There's 32 seconds left after the kickoff.

Nope. Reid, Mahomes, and 1 remaining timeout. KC starts the drive from their own 31.

(0:32 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass deep right to S.Ware to NE 48 for 21 yards (K.Van Noy).
(0:23 - 4th) Timeout #3 by KC at 00:23.
(0:23 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass deep left to D.Robinson to NE 21 for 27 yards (J.Jackson) [D.Hightower]. Penalty on NE-T.Flowers, Defensive Offside, declined.
(0:16 - 4th) (Shotgun) P.Mahomes pass incomplete deep right.
(0:11 - 4th) Timeout #1 by NE at 00:11.
(0:08 - 4th) Harrison Butker 39 Yd Field Goal

To OT we go. Patriots win toss and get the ball.

(15:00 - OT) T.Brady pass short left to C.Hogan pushed ob at NE 35 for 10 yards (K.Fuller) [D.Nnadi].
(14:24 - OT) R.Burkhead up the middle to NE 35 for no gain (K.Fuller).
(13:45 - OT) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to J.Edelman.
(13:40 - OT) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to J.Edelman to KC 45 for 20 yards (D.Sorensen).
(12:59 - OT) T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to P.Dorsett.
(12:54 - OT) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to C.Patterson.
(12:51 - OT) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to J.Edelman to KC 30 for 15 yards (C.Ward).
(12:10 - OT) T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to C.Hogan.
(12:03 - OT) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to C.Patterson (S.Nelson).
(11:57 - OT) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to R.Gronkowski to KC 15 for 15 yards (E.Berry).
(11:18 - OT) R.Burkhead up the middle to KC 5 for 10 yards (D.Sorensen).
(10:48 - OT) R.Burkhead up the middle to KC 2 for 3 yards (A.Bailey).
(10:08 - OT) Rex Burkhead 2 Yd Run

Patriots win. Chiefs don't get the ball, as this was before the "Josh Allen Rule."

It's funny how something so small as a little offsides by Ford negated an interception thrown by Brady (which probably would've ended the game) and trickled down to a Patriots win. And winning the coin toss? There's no skill in that.

We compare individual players all the time. Yet games are defined by dozens, if not hundreds, of these little occurrences throughout games and have ripple effects. Just not all of them are as obvious as "FLAG" and a yellow marker on your TV screen.

[Terry Tate]

That loss to us where Mahomes scored 9 points was still one of the more impressive QB displays I've seen. Mahomes was doing everything he could to put the team on his back in the face of unrelenting pressure and the team just wouldn't hop on. That play where he was near horizontal, just about to hit the ground and sidearmed a pass some 30 yards downfield and hit his guy in the hands, just for the guy to drop it, summed up that game for Mahomes.

I don't know if he's the best yet, or if he ever will be, but he is certainly the most gifted. If there is some trait Mahomes lacks, I don't know what it is. Maybe a more likeable family?

[Snake]

That loss to us where Mahomes scored 9 points was still one of the more impressive QB displays I've seen. Mahomes was doing everything he could to put the team on his back in the face of unrelenting pressure and the team just wouldn't hop on. That play where he was near horizontal, just about to hit the ground and sidearmed a pass some 30 yards downfield and hit his guy in the hands, just for the guy to drop it, summed up that game for Mahomes.

I don't know if he's the best yet, or if he ever will be, but he is certainly the most gifted. If there is some trait Mahomes lacks, I don't know what it is. Maybe a more likeable family?

He was a 4.80 guy when he was younger and faster. but, like Rodgers, he looks much faster on the field because of when/how he decides to run. so, it's not even a weakness really.

[Selmon Rules]

For everyone talking down Mahomes stats because the rules have changed so much, how come nobody else does what he does??

If it was just rules and play style changes, everyone would be doing this stuff. They ain't

[Miller4Prez64]

For everyone talking down Mahomes stats because the rules have changed so much, how come nobody else does what he does??

If it was just rules and play style changes, everyone would be doing this stuff. They ain't

Nobody is denying any of this. He’s clearly superior to everyone playing right now. It’s just a push back on the argument that Mahomes is better than Brady based on stats from different eras of football.

[Bootz]

For everyone talking down Mahomes stats because the rules have changed so much, how come nobody else does what he does??

If it was just rules and play style changes, everyone would be doing this stuff. They ain't

Nobody is denying any of this. He’s clearly superior to everyone playing right now. It’s just a push back on the argument that Mahomes is better than Brady based on stats from different eras of football.

I got the stats pushback last month and said forget the stats. Compare their Superbowl appearances, wins, MVPs awards, Pro Bowls, All-Pro teams, Offensive player of the year awards. Mahomes has more at this point in every category except SB wins, in which they are tied at this stage of their careers.