CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

This section is for discussing possible future Buccaneers, as well as college football.
User avatar
Defense5599
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 pm
Reputation: 219

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Defense5599 »

Primeminister wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:14 pm
PanteraCanes wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:07 am

The vast majority of the players need to take advantage of the education. They will not see the NFL. Then many that do see the NFL will not make enough to live the rest of their life on.
For some of these students they’ll make enough money from NIL to never work again. They’ll make more than any degree could hope to bring.

All that being said I think they should be paid for their labor beyond just NIL. The primary goal of college is to find a career you like that is hopefully lucrative. If these kids get paid they’ve succeeded at college.
They might MAKE more but whether or not they will have to work again is debatable.

IMO, an 18 year old is not an adult even though society labels them as such. 18 year olds are not mature enough to handle adult decisions, especially on the financial side. You start giving kids these million dollar NIL deals and that money will run like water through their fingers.

Remember that ESPN 30 for 30 episode on broke professional athletes? It will be on a much larger scale in college.
2022 BucZone Survivor League Champion
2022 BZ Bounce Back Survivor League Champion
Primeminister
Posts: 5591
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:59 pm
Reputation: 1923

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Primeminister »

Defense5599 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:33 am
Primeminister wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:14 pm

For some of these students they’ll make enough money from NIL to never work again. They’ll make more than any degree could hope to bring.

All that being said I think they should be paid for their labor beyond just NIL. The primary goal of college is to find a career you like that is hopefully lucrative. If these kids get paid they’ve succeeded at college.
They might MAKE more but whether or not they will have to work again is debatable.

IMO, an 18 year old is not an adult even though society labels them as such. 18 year olds are not mature enough to handle adult decisions, especially on the financial side. You start giving kids these million dollar NIL deals and that money will run like water through their fingers.

Remember that ESPN 30 for 30 episode on broke professional athletes? It will be on a much larger scale in college.
Your position makes no sense. As of today what is one of the biggest issues with those who attended college (regardless of graduation status): student loan debt. The large majority of people who attend college end up in debt. Many of them remain in this debt for the majority of their lives.

If we accept your position you would have to argue that people shouldn’t go to college because chances are they’re going to get into lifelong debt.
User avatar
Defense5599
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 pm
Reputation: 219

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Defense5599 »

Primeminister wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:38 pm
Defense5599 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:33 am

They might MAKE more but whether or not they will have to work again is debatable.

IMO, an 18 year old is not an adult even though society labels them as such. 18 year olds are not mature enough to handle adult decisions, especially on the financial side. You start giving kids these million dollar NIL deals and that money will run like water through their fingers.

Remember that ESPN 30 for 30 episode on broke professional athletes? It will be on a much larger scale in college.
Your position makes no sense. As of today what is one of the biggest issues with those who attended college (regardless of graduation status): student loan debt. The large majority of people who attend college end up in debt. Many of them remain in this debt for the majority of their lives.

If we accept your position you would have to argue that people shouldn’t go to college because chances are they’re going to get into lifelong debt.
What I'm saying is, these kids that are talented enough to be great high school football or basketball players end up getting an expensive education for free. Plus their living expenses are paid as well. But they have to learn to live with what they have. Start giving them a million bucks at 18 and they'll spend like they have a million bucks with no financial discipline.

As for your point about student debt, it's best to manage it wisely and look for ways to get rid of it early on. And of course, there's nothing wrong with going the trade route. In fact, that's a faster way to get into management.
2022 BucZone Survivor League Champion
2022 BZ Bounce Back Survivor League Champion
User avatar
Defense5599
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:28 pm
Reputation: 219

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Defense5599 »

Primeminister wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:38 pm
Defense5599 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:33 am

They might MAKE more but whether or not they will have to work again is debatable.

IMO, an 18 year old is not an adult even though society labels them as such. 18 year olds are not mature enough to handle adult decisions, especially on the financial side. You start giving kids these million dollar NIL deals and that money will run like water through their fingers.

Remember that ESPN 30 for 30 episode on broke professional athletes? It will be on a much larger scale in college.
Your position makes no sense. As of today what is one of the biggest issues with those who attended college (regardless of graduation status): student loan debt. The large majority of people who attend college end up in debt. Many of them remain in this debt for the majority of their lives.

If we accept your position you would have to argue that people shouldn’t go to college because chances are they’re going to get into lifelong debt.
What I'm saying is, these kids that are talented enough to be great high school football or basketball players end up getting an expensive education for free. Plus their living expenses are paid as well. But they have to learn to live with what they have. Start giving them a million bucks at 18 and they'll spend like they have a million bucks with no financial discipline.

As for your point about student debt, it's best to manage it wisely and look for ways to get rid of it early on. And of course, there's nothing wrong with going the trade route. In fact, that's a faster way to get into management.
2022 BucZone Survivor League Champion
2022 BZ Bounce Back Survivor League Champion
User avatar
Kress
Posts: 5945
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:52 am
Reputation: 3364
Location: Cunning Linguist

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Kress »

Primeminister wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:14 pm For some of these students they’ll make enough money from NIL to never work again. They’ll make more than any degree could hope to bring.
Do you know how much money you would have to give an 18-year-old for him to "never work again?" I guarantee no one has even come close to the splash equivalent of a lifetime of earnings.
Primeminister
Posts: 5591
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:59 pm
Reputation: 1923

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Primeminister »

Kress wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Primeminister wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:14 pm For some of these students they’ll make enough money from NIL to never work again. They’ll make more than any degree could hope to bring.
Do you know how much money you would have to give an 18-year-old for him to "never work again?" I guarantee no one has even come close to the splash equivalent of a lifetime of earnings.
Using the standard 4% drawdown a $5M investment at a 7% return would give them $25K per month….and they’d still have $70M at age 70.

That is obviously a n extreme example, but it is very easy to take millions and never work again. This doesn’t even take into account the real estate possibilities that would allow them to never work again. Whether they do it or not is up to them, but I’m glad they have the chance.
Primeminister
Posts: 5591
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:59 pm
Reputation: 1923

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Primeminister »

Defense5599 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:37 am
Primeminister wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:38 pm

Your position makes no sense. As of today what is one of the biggest issues with those who attended college (regardless of graduation status): student loan debt. The large majority of people who attend college end up in debt. Many of them remain in this debt for the majority of their lives.

If we accept your position you would have to argue that people shouldn’t go to college because chances are they’re going to get into lifelong debt.
What I'm saying is, these kids that are talented enough to be great high school football or basketball players end up getting an expensive education for free. Plus their living expenses are paid as well. But they have to learn to live with what they have. Start giving them a million bucks at 18 and they'll spend like they have a million bucks with no financial discipline.

As for your point about student debt, it's best to manage it wisely and look for ways to get rid of it early on. And of course, there's nothing wrong with going the trade route. In fact, that's a faster way to get into management.
I really wish people would stop saying they get education “for free”. Those students work for that education through training and continued athletic performance. They highest level of college athletics takes up so much time that many of them couldn’t work a regular job if they wanted to.

They aren’t being “given” millions. They’re legally allowed to make money on their likeness just like you and me. The only difference is no one wants to pay me or you to use our face to sell their product.

So once again your argument is they shouldn’t be paid millions because you think they could make bad financial decisions? College itself is often a bad financial decision yet we are happy these kids attend and we tell them they should be smart about their debt. I’m cheering these same college student in to make as much money off of their talent as they can. Some of them will positively change the lives of their entire families.
User avatar
Dread
Posts: 2546
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:56 am
Reputation: 1152
Location: On the golf course

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Dread »

I think the NIL stuff is fine. These kids are 18/adults and this is America.

The issue I have is the competitive balance problems and unintended consequences that will inevitable occur.

Imo NIL deals will only create a larger gap between the haves and have nots. Dynasty programs with large Alumni will use that influence in the marketing departments within corporate America to guide kids to certain programs imo.

We'll see, again I believe the kids deserve to make money off their likeness instead of someone else making money off them. But this will present new problems/issues we don't even know of yet. I don't think it's as easy as letting college kids make this kind of money with the expectation nothing else changes.
Image
Primeminister
Posts: 5591
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:59 pm
Reputation: 1923

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Primeminister »

Dread wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:12 pm I think the NIL stuff is fine. These kids are 18/adults and this is America.

The issue I have is the competitive balance problems and unintended consequences that will inevitable occur.

Imo NIL deals will only create a larger gap between the haves and have nots. Dynasty programs with large Alumni will use that influence in the marketing departments within corporate America to guide kids to certain programs imo.

We'll see, again I believe the kids deserve to make money off their likeness instead of someone else making money off them. But this will present new problems/issues we don't even know of yet. I don't think it's as easy as letting college kids make this kind of money with the expectation nothing else changes.
I am not so naive as to believe the college landscape will remain the same. On the contrary I believe the industry is going through a dramatic shift and we wont see all the consequences for 5-7 years. The issues that it creates are issues within any free market or competitive business industry. We are simply used to not having to consider those issues because the labor was free. At this point the NCAA has to adjust their model to account for basically independent contractors.
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Snake »

With NIL and free transfers, recruiting classes and commits mean very little. So I won’t be doing any analysis of classes until something changes.

CFB is peak clown world at the moment.
Image
uscbucsfan
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:35 pm
Reputation: 502

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by uscbucsfan »

Snake wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:22 pm

CFB is peak clown world at the moment.
Do you really see any real fall off in the product already? You've been very clear that you don't agree with NIL, but there's nothing CFB or the NCAA could do to prevent it and many, like myself, think it's fair.

We are still going to get excitement, still going to get crazy recruiting decisions. The big schools with the best facilities and the most money will still consistently be the best programs.

There's no reason to believe that the product will be dramatically different at this point. With the transfer portal, so far, it's create more parity because kids from major schools who aren't playing leave to lower schools.

Just wait to see if the product gets worse instead of assuming it will and bitching about it so much.
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Snake »

I agree with NIL but there needs to be uniformity in its implementation and the rules surrounding it. Variance between states is leading to problems. Some schools can help kids secure deals, some can’t. Some schools are organizing slush funds, others can’t. NIL without uniformity + free transfer is straight up year to year free agency and a kid committing to school means nothing. There needs to be regulations. I’ll be mostly checked out until they put guard rails in place. They also need to get rid of the early signing period.
Image
uscbucsfan
Posts: 2261
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:35 pm
Reputation: 502

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by uscbucsfan »

Snake wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:16 am I agree with NIL but there needs to be uniformity in its implementation and the rules surrounding it. Variance between states is leading to problems. Some schools can help kids secure deals, some can’t. Some schools are organizing slush funds, others can’t. NIL without uniformity + free transfer is straight up year to year free agency and a kid committing to school means nothing. There needs to be regulations. I’ll be mostly checked out until they put guard rails in place. They also need to get rid of the early signing period.
How has the early signing period negatively impacted things? The top 200 recruits are all signed by December instead of February...is that really detrimental to the game?

There can't be rules put on it. These are third party funds for NIL, not directly associated by the schools. Just as some schools (the big ones) could use bagmen, others couldn't....Nothing is changing other than this is become legal and the players that we aren't talking about are now allowed jobs, additional cash, etc legally. This is better in every way for the kids and makes sense logically, but fans are worried it's going to shift things in their entertainment and want to shit on it...when it may not even change things at all.

It comes across the same as the fans who said they weren't watching the NFL if players were kneeling. People are bitter about something that has had and won't likely have a real impact on the actual game of football and want to take their ball and go home.
User avatar
Kress
Posts: 5945
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:52 am
Reputation: 3364
Location: Cunning Linguist

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Kress »

uscbucsfan wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:20 am How has the early signing period negatively impacted things? The top 200 recruits are all signed by December instead of February...is that really detrimental to the game?

I don't like how it has creeped back into the still-ongoing season. Star players already sit out bowl games, but now we also have coaching staffs running around worried about signing new toys while what's left of their current guys are still supposed to be suiting up to finish the season.
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Snake »

Kress wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:24 am
uscbucsfan wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:20 am How has the early signing period negatively impacted things? The top 200 recruits are all signed by December instead of February...is that really detrimental to the game?

I don't like how it has creeped back into the still-ongoing season. Star players already sit out bowl games, but now we also have coaching staffs running around worried about signing new toys while what's left of their current guys are still supposed to be suiting up to finish the season.
Pretty much this.

Brian Kelly quit on his team who was ranked like #5 in the country because he couldn’t afford to miss the early signing period with his new team. Riley did the same thing. Guys were doing final in-home visits with kids knowing their agents were finalizing contracts for other teams. Early signing day is a disaster.
Image
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Snake »

Bama is amazing. Still dominating in NIL world.

OSU having a bad day.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image
User avatar
Kress
Posts: 5945
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:52 am
Reputation: 3364
Location: Cunning Linguist

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Kress »

The U trying to parlay its bad-ass reputation. Good for them.
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Snake »

Quality troll from the ultimate bagman program

Image
User avatar
Kress
Posts: 5945
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:52 am
Reputation: 3364
Location: Cunning Linguist

Re: CFB recruiting and other CFB analysis v1.0

Post by Kress »

Snake wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:14 pm Quality troll from the ultimate bagman program

I still rank this up there as the ultimate off-the-cuff response. Dabo is the man.

Post Reply