True or false?
66.6 million on Houston's o-line.
30.5 for the Bucs.
True or false?
Jensen tore his ACL, MCL, PCL and meniscus, fractured his tibial head, and had additional unspecified cartilage damage. For these problems, he never had surgery to fix them.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:07 amNot a lot. Like $1.2M if he’s released or retires post 6/1. We can push his dead cap hit into next year though.
It might be worth it to see if he can play. Hainsey left a bit to be desired.
You do it to me all the time Babe. You’re mean and cold so it’s a taste of your own medicine.Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:41 amSure, attack the poster when you get defensive. It is all you really have ever had lolNavybuc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:42 am
Oh Babe. Learn to read. It's always been a weakness of yours. I bolded the keywords for you so maybe you'll understand it better. Just like when the Chiefs drafted Patrick Mahomes thinking he might be better than Alex Smith, we can draft one of those guys hoping they might be better than Baker Mayfield. They very well possibly could down the road. Will Bo Nix be a better pro than Baker Mayfield? I actually he think he will. I like Nix. But again, that's not my decision nor yours. It's Licht's.
Why? Rookie contract? Plenty of losing franchises have QBs on rookie contracts right now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:47 amNo, I'm looking for a rookie to become a franchise QB.Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:27 pm So what you're counting on with a rookie is for them to be an exception to history. In the 21st century, 7 rookie QBs have won a playoff game. 7 total in 23 years. Guess how many have won a Superbowl? 0.
Saying we're better off with a rookie is almost a hope or admission that we won't be competing in 2024.
Houston got just as far as the Bucs did this season with a rookie QB, AND with a LESSER team (and beat us), with a rookie QB. Their future looks a lot brighter than ours. True or false?
Right, but if we just said "it's Jason Licht's decision" about everything we might as well shut the boards down.Navybuc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:30 amI agree with all that. The point I was trying to make is if you’re a GM and you think one of the guys there at pick No. 25 can be better than Baker, you take them. I’d hate to see Licht say “I think Nix has a better future than Baker” and then pass on him. The Nix goes somewhere else and wins a couple SBs while Baker doesn’t get any better than he did this year.You always want to upgrade your team, and after the combine and workouts you think a guy like Nix has better potential for this team moving forward, you pull that trigger.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:04 am
The problem with the analogy you're making is the Chiefs were in a very different position than us with Alex Smith. He was under contract with them and they had multiple (4) years of data suggesting they would not win in the playoffs with him at QB. We kind of have to make a decision on Baker Mayfield right now.
Imagine having a QB that throws for over 300 yards and 3 TDs in two playoff games and wanting to move on from that QB for a rookie. I just do not understand the mentality.
Now, I could understand better if Baker had just thrown for 3,500 yards with 15 TDs and 8 picks in the regular season in his 4th year in the offense and then got bounced in the Wild Card game with a 172 yard performance and a 1/1 TD/INT ratio like Alex Smith did prior to the Chiefs drafting Mahomes.
That’s Licht’s decision, though, not ours. There are a lot of other variables that go into it, but he has to evaluate everything. But if we were to cut ties with Baker, I’d like to see it be done with a draft pick not a FA.
lol link? I never attack anyone without them shooting the first shot. Ever. Take a seat sweetie.Navybuc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:08 amYou do it to me all the time Babe. You’re mean and cold so it’s a taste of your own medicine.Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:41 am
Sure, attack the poster when you get defensive. It is all you really have ever had lol
I think some on this board are putting their hands over their ears and blathering nah nah nah nah nah nah nahGrahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:13 amWhy? Rookie contract? Plenty of losing franchises have QBs on rookie contracts right now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:47 am
No, I'm looking for a rookie to become a franchise QB.
Houston got just as far as the Bucs did this season with a rookie QB, AND with a LESSER team (and beat us), with a rookie QB. Their future looks a lot brighter than ours. True or false?
Baker Mayfield won a Heisman trophy and was the #1 overall pick. He played like it in Tampa this season. Some of you are holding his past tenure with a truly dysfunctional franchise against him. Why can't he be OUR franchise QB?
Baker led a GW TD drive to beat Houston. Our defense gave that one away. Also, we can't have C.J. Stroud. Longing for some other team's rookie QB with the benefit of hindsight after he looks good in his rookie season isn't any way to manage a franchise.
Trevor Lawrence was the next big thing 3 years ago and he has never had a season as good as the one Baker Mayfield just turned in for us.
I have no idea about the others but I tore my meniscus and it did heal completely without any intervention. The doc said w/o surgery almost all of them heal within 6 weeks. I was never able to play football again though at Jensen level.Cheb wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:59 amJensen tore his ACL, MCL, PCL and meniscus, fractured his tibial head, and had additional unspecified cartilage damage. For these problems, he never had surgery to fix them.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:07 am
Not a lot. Like $1.2M if he’s released or retires post 6/1. We can push his dead cap hit into next year though.
It might be worth it to see if he can play. Hainsey left a bit to be desired.
I'm no orthopedic surgeon, but I'm not optimistic. Bones can mend without intervention, but from what I understand once a ligament or meniscus is torn, it's torn in perpetuity until it's fixed.
This right here summarizes the entire rookie savior dogma. Look at how many modifiers you had to stuff in there.
Now there will come offseason where yes, you happen to be lucky enough to be in a year that actually has a good, Super Bowl winning level QB. You have no way of knowing which year that would be, or which QB in that year it is, but they obviously do exists (someone needs to win the championship). They'll than use this very fact as proof that the needle was in the haystack the whole time, and anyone/everyone who didn't see it is an incompetent fool that should be fired. No matter how many savior failures there are they have tunnel vision for the one success and convince themselves the dogma is actually a viable management plan.
You mean like you attacked him for saying something he didn't actually say?Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:41 amSure, attack the poster when you get defensive. It is all you really have ever had lolNavybuc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:42 am
Oh Babe. Learn to read. It's always been a weakness of yours. I bolded the keywords for you so maybe you'll understand it better. Just like when the Chiefs drafted Patrick Mahomes thinking he might be better than Alex Smith, we can draft one of those guys hoping they might be better than Baker Mayfield. They very well possibly could down the road. Will Bo Nix be a better pro than Baker Mayfield? I actually he think he will. I like Nix. But again, that's not my decision nor yours. It's Licht's.
Show me the attacking words. Let’s see them lol and while you are at it, let’s see what you think I attacked him for. SMH y’all something elseBuc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:04 pmYou mean like you attacked him for saying something he didn't actually say?Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:41 am
Sure, attack the poster when you get defensive. It is all you really have ever had lol
Is this what you call attacking you?Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:10 pmShow me the attacking words. Let’s see them lol and while you are at it, let’s see what you think I attacked him for. SMH y’all something else
That was certainly no worse that what you said that prompted what he said above.Oh Babe. Learn to read.
Stop trying so hard to always be right. In this case at least, you're not.Just how high are you to even put that in writing?
Because he's been deflowered.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:13 amWhy? Rookie contract? Plenty of losing franchises have QBs on rookie contracts right now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:47 am
No, I'm looking for a rookie to become a franchise QB.
Houston got just as far as the Bucs did this season with a rookie QB, AND with a LESSER team (and beat us), with a rookie QB. Their future looks a lot brighter than ours. True or false?
Baker Mayfield won a Heisman trophy and was the #1 overall pick. He played like it in Tampa this season. Some of you are holding his past tenure with a truly dysfunctional franchise against him. Why can't he be OUR franchise QB?
So you're trashing rookie QB's, then say a rookie QB lead his team to a game winning drive... and that's our defenses fault? It's not because that guy is good, right? Weird, because when Baker "led a GW TD drive", you're praising Baker.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:13 amWhy? Rookie contract? Plenty of losing franchises have QBs on rookie contracts right now.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:47 am
No, I'm looking for a rookie to become a franchise QB.
Houston got just as far as the Bucs did this season with a rookie QB, AND with a LESSER team (and beat us), with a rookie QB. Their future looks a lot brighter than ours. True or false?
Baker Mayfield won a Heisman trophy and was the #1 overall pick. He played like it in Tampa this season. Some of you are holding his past tenure with a truly dysfunctional franchise against him. Why can't he be OUR franchise QB?
Baker led a GW TD drive to beat Houston. Our defense gave that one away. Also, we can't have C.J. Stroud. Longing for some other team's rookie QB with the benefit of hindsight after he looks good in his rookie season isn't any way to manage a franchise.
Trevor Lawrence was the next big thing 3 years ago and he has never had a season as good as the one Baker Mayfield just turned in for us.
So you're saying that Houston invested $36M more on their OLine and didn't waste it on a mediocre QB and that line plus a franchise QB produced a 10-win season? So... your answer is "TRUE" then, yes?
I didn’t trash anyone. C.J. Stroud was taken 2nd overall. Unfortunately, I guess?, our QB was too good to get us a top 3 pick this year to get a new QB so that hypothetical rookie could then take us to the divisional round of the playoffs next year? Except we were in them this year. With baker mayfield.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:02 pmSo you're trashing rookie QB's, then say a rookie QB lead his team to a game winning drive... and that's our defenses fault? It's not because that guy is good, right? Weird, because when Baker "led a GW TD drive", you're praising Baker.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:13 am
Why? Rookie contract? Plenty of losing franchises have QBs on rookie contracts right now.
Baker Mayfield won a Heisman trophy and was the #1 overall pick. He played like it in Tampa this season. Some of you are holding his past tenure with a truly dysfunctional franchise against him. Why can't he be OUR franchise QB?
Baker led a GW TD drive to beat Houston. Our defense gave that one away. Also, we can't have C.J. Stroud. Longing for some other team's rookie QB with the benefit of hindsight after he looks good in his rookie season isn't any way to manage a franchise.
Trevor Lawrence was the next big thing 3 years ago and he has never had a season as good as the one Baker Mayfield just turned in for us.
I'm done reading your nonsense. You and your delusional Baker backers must love mediocrity.
Ok, you didn't trash Stroud ... you at the very least minimized his accomplishment when you said "Our defense gave that one away."... literally just after praising Baker for doing the same thing Stroud did. Yes... that is nonsense.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:20 pmI didn’t trash anyone. C.J. Stroud was taken 2nd overall. Unfortunately, I guess?, our QB was too good to get us a top 3 pick this year to get a new QB so that hypothetical rookie could then take us to the divisional round of the playoffs next year? Except we were in them this year. With baker mayfield.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:02 pm
So you're trashing rookie QB's, then say a rookie QB lead his team to a game winning drive... and that's our defenses fault? It's not because that guy is good, right? Weird, because when Baker "led a GW TD drive", you're praising Baker.
I'm done reading your nonsense. You and your delusional Baker backers must love mediocrity.
Talk about nonsense.
I was saying it in the offseason that Baker was good enough to win us out of contention for a new QB, good enough to win a bad division, but bad enough that he wouldn’t take us the distance.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:20 pmI didn’t trash anyone. C.J. Stroud was taken 2nd overall. Unfortunately, I guess?, our QB was too good to get us a top 3 pick this year to get a new QB so that hypothetical rookie could then take us to the divisional round of the playoffs next year? Except we were in them this year. With baker mayfield.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:02 pm
So you're trashing rookie QB's, then say a rookie QB lead his team to a game winning drive... and that's our defenses fault? It's not because that guy is good, right? Weird, because when Baker "led a GW TD drive", you're praising Baker.
I'm done reading your nonsense. You and your delusional Baker backers must love mediocrity.
Talk about nonsense.
And this is why the dogma is a freaking joke. A bad joke at that. Statistically and historically it's a dogshit plan in every sense. Probably no more obvious a red flag to what a load of crap it is then when it fails to produce, even when you follow all the commandments to the letter, the fall back is simply... well that wasn't REAL communism... the GM screwed it up.CannonFire wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:35 pmHe screwed up in 2015 and survived (thanks to Tom Brady), and he's got another chance.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:20 pm
I didn’t trash anyone. C.J. Stroud was taken 2nd overall. Unfortunately, I guess?, our QB was too good to get us a top 3 pick this year to get a new QB so that hypothetical rookie could then take us to the divisional round of the playoffs next year? Except we were in them this year. With baker mayfield.
Talk about nonsense.
You think he is going to make less than Carr? I sincerely doubt that is going to happen. 38-40 APY is my guessKress wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:56 am https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback
These numbers are all kinds of crazy when you compare who is getting them, but in this list I'd put him in Geno territory. I think Baker is going to be more interested in the length of the contract than blowing up a huge number. He's not in the elite category, so right now - and especially with his history - stability is a commodity for him.
Edit: With natural salary inflation, probably closer to Goff.
smdh...you really believe we can? You think we can trade someone not on our roster at the beginning of the league year?CannonFire wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:04 pmtrade up... adding in Devin White if it helps,acmillis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:58 am
Of course, picking a rookie QB is a roll of the dice, as is relying on Mayfield to duplicate what he's done this year.
The difference? A rookie QB, even one drafted 1st overall, will earn on four years, what Mayfield is projected to earn in one year.
Do you not see that?
lol that is hilarious!Buc2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:15 pmIs this what you call attacking you?Babeinbucland wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:10 pm
Show me the attacking words. Let’s see them lol and while you are at it, let’s see what you think I attacked him for. SMH y’all something elseThat was certainly no worse that what you said that prompted what he said above.Oh Babe. Learn to read.Stop trying so hard to always be right. In this case at least, you're not.Just how high are you to even put that in writing?
If I went by your definition of contenders, there would be 3 NFC teams and 3 AFC teams in the playoffs. So 49ers, Lions, and Cowboys, I am assuming you would pick as contenders although Dak always chokes, so it should probably be 2 by your definition. In the AFC you would have 2? 3? 4? Ravens and Chiefs obviously. The down year for the Bills, did you think they would beat either? While Miami had a high scoring offense, I had no belief they would beat the big two. So we should just have like a 4 team playoffs? I mean why let any other team in if the have to have perfect games and they other real contenders play down to them for a chance?CannonFire wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:51 pmI agree about White, I just keep hearing from pundits and whatnot, who are supposedly "in-the-know", and they talk glowingly about him. He might have some value... how, I don't know.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:45 pm
I don't think we'll be able to add Devin White to any draft day deals.
How can you say this team were "pretenders?" They were one of the final 8 teams. They were within a few mistakes and one score from being in the NFC Championship game. Please sign me up for being that kind of pretender every single season. It is definitely not the "right move" to let the QB that made that happen walk in free agency.
We were pretenders because we snuck into the playoffs without any real chance to win. That's what a pretender is. Yeah, we were among the final 8, but every year there are teams in the final 8 that you look at say "yeah, they're not winning any more"... this year, that was us. Reason being, at some point you have to beat a good team and the Bucs didn't do that all year. Yeah, I know you want a pretender, because you want to re-sign Mayfield. The thing about pretenders is that the playoffs pop up occasionally and you never go anywhere. The Bucs are in the one place no NFL team ever wants to be in, purgatory. They're too good to suck, but not good enough to win. Keeping Mayfield keeps us in purgatory. Like I said in an earlier post, I'd rather go give Cousins a $35M AAV deal for 3 years (guaranteed), then give Mayfield a Daniel Jones contract.
LOL, I have no problem walking away from a mediocre QB who brought us to a 9-8 season with a schedule that featured only 4 good opponents, in what some consider to be a career year for him.
Next year, we're projected to have $50M in cap space. We NEED to improve the OLine and we have Mike Evans and LaVonte David needing new deals. Our schedule next year features San Fran, Philly, Baltimore, Dallas, KC, Chargers, & Lions... along with teams who could see an upgrade at the QB position like Denver and Vegas... and you want to sign a mediocre QB to deal worth $30M (give or take), and you think we'll make the playoffs? Yeah, sign me up for the under.
That QB that you want to sign looked like CRAP/total garbage, in the last two games of the season, that were must-win and he produced 0 points in the first 3 quarters... down 20-0 in the home season finally forcing us to win our last game. Our last game in which we scored a whopping 9 points against the worst team in football. THAT's the QB you we NEED to bring back? Dude, you just want to be disappointed don't you? You miss the Winston, Freeman, Dilfer, King days, don't you? Glad we're out of that Brady era where we were contenders?
13-21 Denver Wilson is better? Not a criticism of Cousins but he will be 36 this year. Big Ben fell off a cliff after the age 37. Peyton at 39. He is reaching the use by date sooner than laterCannonFire wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:57 pmRookie-deal windows are 5 years dude, not 1 to 2. There's also the luxury of having time to see what is there before a deal is given... not just 17 games.Doctor wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:42 pm
You're right. Locking up a QB is worth it. And it's also worth sooo much more than some magical 1-2 year rookie-deal window.
Glad you're finally coming to your senses.
Now if we can just get off this weird puritanical obsession that your savior QB must be an NFL-virgin when you landed him we can finally get somewhere.
Now if we can just get you off of this, well, we don't suck, so that's awesome view that you have, we can finally get somewhere.
Also, I even said I'd rather give Cousins or Wilson money than Mayfield... they've proven that they're not below average starters, unlike Mayfield. I don't need a rookie to come in. Though, that doesn't mean I'm opposed to trading up for one. Now, if they give Mayfield a 1-yr deal for $25M and we still get a QB in the draft, I'll be ok with that.
With some glaring needs like a SS, our entire iOL, down hill RB, CB (hopefully to replace CD3), edge rusher, and as @Bootz mentioned a WR2, we aren't getting all of that in free agency. You want to spend our first round pick on a QB? What if Evans leaves? I don't see how we pick a QB in the first round and I doubt any of those 3 will be there at 58Navybuc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:54 pm Who might be better than Baker that’s out there? Bo Nix. JJ McCarthy. Michael Penix. Those are guys who will could be available when we pick. Jayden Daniels may be there, too, depending on his workouts. Now will they be better than him? That’s something for the GM to figure out and decide on. They very well could.
If I was to move on from Baker, I think the draft is the best strategy. I’m not for going after someone like Cousins or Jimmy G. Russel Wilson? Maybe.
It's good you can laugh at yourself.
You're delusional if you think that's true.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:58 pm Yeah. That’s the other thing not really mentioned enough. We’ve got a top 10 QB without investing any draft capital whatsoever. He only costs money.
Use your entire draft to add talent at other positions.
9th in passing yards for 2023. 7th in passing TDs for 2023. First in both categories for the postseason so far. 12th in regular season passer rating (but Mason Rudolph and Jake Browning are "ahead" of him in limited playing time). In passer rating he's ahead of Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, Stafford, Burrow, Hurts, Murray, and Lawrence.CannonFire wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:22 amYou're delusional if you think that's true.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:58 pm Yeah. That’s the other thing not really mentioned enough. We’ve got a top 10 QB without investing any draft capital whatsoever. He only costs money.
Use your entire draft to add talent at other positions.
Agreed, but the only guaranteed money should be that his base pay is tied to him being on the roster on June 1.
Wow, you are delusional. Willing to bet that right now, every team who's QB you listed... would not trade their guy straight up for Mayfield. Willing to bet I can name at least 10 other teams (Dallas, Green Bay, Detroit, Carolina, San Francisco, Miami, Jets, Baltimore, Cleveland, Houston, & Indianapolis - yup, I was right, 11), that wouldn't do it either. Those are only the "given's". It's possible there's a few others that wouldn't, like the Giants or Pittsburgh). It's because they all believe their guy is better. So, at worst, there are 19 teams that don't agree with you. Willing to bet that every other person who's not a Buccaneers blind homer/Mayfield blind homer, wouldn't agree with you either.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:03 am9th in passing yards for 2023. 7th in passing TDs for 2023. First in both categories for the postseason so far. 12th in regular season passer rating (but Mason Rudolph and Jake Browning are "ahead" of him in limited playing time). In passer rating he's ahead of Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, Stafford, Burrow, Hurts, Murray, and Lawrence.
So, add it all up and yeah I think he's a right at a top 10 QB and apparently that makes me delusional. Especially when I consider potential money to be invested and lack of draft capital invested his value is around 10th to me.