Anyone feeling positive about next week

[Snake]

Comparing 2023 stats to Tom Brady’s 8th year in the league - 16 years ago - is asinine. I don’t know if you’re being dishonest or if you don’t get it. the league’s statistical, schematic, and officiating milieu is so utterly different that it’s not even comparable. You might as well compare Baker Mayfield to Johnny Unitas.

The overarching point is, we’ve seen this Baker Mayfield before. prior to regression. he has a 70s grade from PFF. This is above average. And as good as he can ever do, because of his flaws as a player. Not good, not elite. Above average. His ceiling is above average. And it is not something he has shown the ability to sustain for more than a season.

You don’t give $30 million to a player who is hitting his ceiling, and has never sustained even good performance.

Give big money to quarterbacks who can put the team on their back.

[Navybuc]

Is it? Is it the worst thing?

Yes

[Babeinbucland]

Why is 4k, 30:10 mediocre? It took Tua four years to finally get there. Rodgers and Russell Wilson too. Brees year 6. Brady 8.

But Baker is 28 and been around so ew right? Who are you, Leonardo Dicaprio?

What year was Warner?

[Snake]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

[Bootz]

Yes, because eeking into the playoffs in a trash division, and then committing to a quarterback with a limited ceiling for big money is going to keep you on the mediocrity treadmill. The mediocrity treadmill has no hope.

I’m sure the Steelers would’ve loved adding CJ Stroud to the roster. Nope, they have to keep that undefeated .500 streak going. Meanwhile, everyone knows that they are not contenders for anything. And Mike Tomlin being the just above .500 guy for the last 15 years is no good for anybody except him.

#culture
#winningcultureleftwithTB12

Makes you wonder why 31 teams each year aren't as smart as you are......

[Doctor]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

[Bootz]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

What should we offer to get one of those 3?

[Snake]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

What should we offer to get one of those 3?

They should’ve offered Lamar Jackson a blank check. No evidence that happened. Maybe Baltimore would’ve matched, maybe not. But no evidence of an offer.

[Snake]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

Winning “meaningful” games in lost years such as this makes it harder to get a real difference making QB.

[Bootz]

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

Winning “meaningful” games in lost years such as this makes it harder to get a real difference making QB.

Embarrassing

[Grahamburn]

What should we offer to get one of those 3?

They should’ve offered Lamar Jackson a blank check. No evidence that happened. Maybe Baltimore would’ve matched, maybe not. But no evidence of an offer.

Do you honestly think Baltimore’s success this year is based on solely just Lamar?

Asked a different way. What do you think their record is if Baker is their QB instead?

What would ours be if we had their defense?

[Navybuc]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

Baker's a free agent after this year. Yet you're proposing we go to him and say "Hey Baker, we want to give you a long-term deal while we draft a first-round pick to take over your job in a year." Yeah, I'm sure that will go over well.

Baker will want to go to a team where he can compete for the No. 1 job. I've seen enough where I don't want it to be here. I want someone better. I think we all should.

[Grahamburn]

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

Baker's a free agent after this year. Yet you're proposing we go to him and say "Hey Baker, we want to give you a long-term deal while we draft a first-round pick to take over your job in a year." Yeah, I'm sure that will go over well.

Baker will want to go to a team where he can compete for the No. 1 job. I've seen enough where I don't want it to be here. I want someone better. I think we all should.

I agree it would be silly to sign him and then draft a QB in the first round. That being said free agency is prior to the draft.

[Backside]

Just look at some great talents around the league. CJ Stroud, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

Nope. Sign me up for five more years of Baker Mayfield. That’s what I wanna watch. A guy who would’ve been a Hall of Famer in the 1960s.

Well, Lamar was 31st overall, everyone passed on him. Mahomes was barely top 10, and a playoff team traded up to get him. Stroud was the #2 QB in what was presumed to be a shaky QB class. That pick was gettable, if you knew what he was going to become.

So not a great argument that tanking is the way. And that's without running through the lengthy list of top 5 QB busts.

I also have not seen anyone advocate five years for Baker, but bringing him back as the starter, with no other options being mentioned, seems like a pretty obvious move assuming things don't completely fall apart in the next week. Rookies are usually not ready right away, especially rookies drafted later. This year in the league is plenty of evidence why having multiple QB's on the roster can be a benefit.

I was pretty on board the tank and start fresh train earlier in the year. But the team was simply too good, and won too much. And I can't complain about that. I'm glad we have promising looking rookies, and the team showed some growth. Yes, I did have way more fun watching this team than I would watching a 2-15 team. At some point it's between pick #20 and pick #12, that's not enough for me to root against my team. The draft pick being top 5 has been off the table for awhile now, so I've just gone all out rooting for the Bucs, which has been enjoyable, this week notwithstanding.

I understand all the arguments, but at this point what are the anti-Baker people advocating for? Dump him and take a QB in the 20's no matter what? Start that QB no matter what? Be thrilled if that rookie put up Baker's numbers next year? I think the TEAM is pretty good, and will be a good situation no matter the QB. I don't think bringing Baker back is some albatross that sets the franchise back half a decade. If that was the kind of contract he and the team were discussing, I suppose I'd reevaluate.

[Snake]

The point of picking higher is having options. The higher you pick, the more options you have. Lamar falling to the end of the first round suggests bad process for the entire league. When you’re picking higher, you don’t have to depend on other people having failure of process for you to get the best player. Or get lucky.

The anti-Baker Mayfield people understand that he was a good deal this year for the price versus the production. That equation changes when you start paying him $30 million a year. If he wants to come back on a team-friendly deal, that’s fine. But I’m guessing he’s gonna want commitment both in guaranteed money and years. The plan should be to select a quarterback who has the potential to elevate his teammates, regardless.

And look for a head coach who is better than Toilet.


Context is everything. This team is the best of the worst. They are good at beating up on mediocre teams and they are bad at beating good teams.

[Backside]

How much higher could we realistically pick though? The roster seems pretty solid. Is Trask losing 14 games as the starter? I don't think so. Any replacement level QB is probably getting 8 or so wins on this team. And if that is not the case, then Baker probably deserves more credit than we give him.

[Snake]

How much higher could we realistically pick though? The roster seems pretty solid. Is Trask losing 14 games as the starter? I don't think so. Any replacement level QB is probably getting 8 or so wins on this team. And if that is not the case, then Baker probably deserves more credit than we give him.

This year is already done. It’s all about next season and beyond. The first thing I do is fire Toilet, find my next coach for the next 5+ seasons, and go from there. Can reevaluate the roster from there.

[Backside]

How much higher could we realistically pick though? The roster seems pretty solid. Is Trask losing 14 games as the starter? I don't think so. Any replacement level QB is probably getting 8 or so wins on this team. And if that is not the case, then Baker probably deserves more credit than we give him.

This year is already done. It’s all about next season and beyond. The first thing I do is fire Toilet, find my next coach for the next 5+ seasons, and go from there. Can reevaluate the roster from there.

I wouldn't be mad about that as a fan. But I don't think it is a very good way to run a team overall. Bowles does nothing to excite me. But (assuming) two division wins in two years as a coach is not a fireable offence. Yes plenty of context goes with that statement, but it is still the truth. And as long as he is the best of a bad bunch of teams, and giving you home playoff games, it just seems like bad practice to can that guy. At least until you had a half dozen straight playoff losses or something. Let the other teams rise up, or Bowles crater, and react to that when the time comes.

And you better have a guy you LOVE coming in. Any names come to mind? Would you take Belichick? What if you had to fire Licht to give BB GM duties? We want that? Is Harbaugh and the Bucs a mutual interest? If ownership wants to be proactive, throw the bag at Ben Johnson, and tell him he can make the call at QB. I personally would be pretty damn excited about that. But I don't think I can agree that is good process for running a team.

[Snake]

You’re providing some good lines of inquiry. Some of these questions are a lot easier to answer if you’ve spent the last 20 years working in the NFL. Developing networks and keeping tabs on up-and-coming coaching talent. Ben Johnson is enticing. But I want to know how he does in the building. Can he delegate, can he manage a giant operation? It goes beyond playcalling and whiteboard once you become a head coach. These are things that are basically impossible to know from a fan perspective outside of (fluff) articles.

I absolutely would hire Jim Harbaugh in a millisecond. Established track record, and appears to be at the peak of his powers. He’s been known to bump heads with GM’s in the past. So figuring out the dynamic between him and whoever is the GM would be important.

Re: Belichick

He’s the smartest, most accomplished, and most experienced coach in the world. But the number of concessions that he would have to make (for me) to hire him would deter him.

he would need to upgrade his coaching staff. I would be fine with Josh McD coming back, but they would need to simplify the offense because complicating offense for egotistical purposes is something that I’m not interested in. would also need to get rid of all the nepotism hires, which currently compose about half of his coaching staff. Including two of his sons, and multiple former players.

He would have to give up final personnel say. The current narrative in New England is that Bill only wants to coach the players that he’s interested in coaching anymore. This isn’t an expensive hobby. he would need to coach whoever is on the roster. And he would not have the final say about that..


I don’t see him going for it

[Babeinbucland]

Me going into Sunday

[GreatTimes]

^^^^ Hopefully Bucs fans will be in a more festive mood after the game.

[Doctor]

You name 3 (stretch on Stroud) humans on earth. Three. I want one too, if you can just go get us one that would be great. I'm all for taking a shot on a rookie if we like one enough.

I just don't get why we can't have Baker while we wait for our chance at one of a handful of humans to grace us with their services.

Winning “meaningful” games in lost years such as this makes it harder to get a real difference making QB.

Why are they meaningless? Because you're so convinced we can't win a SB so there's no meaning?

So we've had 44 seasons of meaningless games and 39 meaningful games in our history?

[Snake]

Winning “meaningful” games in lost years such as this makes it harder to get a real difference making QB.

Why are they meaningless? Because you're so convinced we can't win a SB so there's no meaning?

So we've had 44 seasons of meaningless games and 39 meaningful games in our history?

Which ones do you remember?


…


Exactly.

[kaimaru]

The point of picking higher is having options. The higher you pick, the more options you have. Lamar falling to the end of the first round suggests bad process for the entire league. When you’re picking higher, you don’t have to depend on other people having failure of process for you to get the best player. Or get lucky.

The anti-Baker Mayfield people understand that he was a good deal this year for the price versus the production. That equation changes when you start paying him $30 million a year. If he wants to come back on a team-friendly deal, that’s fine. But I’m guessing he’s gonna want commitment both in guaranteed money and years. The plan should be to select a quarterback who has the potential to elevate his teammates, regardless.

And look for a head coach who is better than Toilet.


Context is everything. This team is the best of the worst. They are good at beating up on mediocre teams and they are bad at beating good teams.

15 teams are between 1-9 and 9-1 right now. That is not the best of the worst. That's middle of the road ffs

[Snake]

What are you referring to?

[kaimaru]

Why are they meaningless? Because you're so convinced we can't win a SB so there's no meaning?

So we've had 44 seasons of meaningless games and 39 meaningful games in our history?

Which ones do you remember?


…


Exactly.

I remember many of them. Just because you dismiss the past doesn't mean real fans do

[Snake]

Which ones do you remember?


…


Exactly.

I remember many of them. Just because you dismiss the past doesn't mean real fans do

Who was the fourth CB in 2013?

[kaimaru]

What are you referring to?

The team being the best of the worst. Being middle of the pack in the league is not the best of the worst. You act like we would win the division at 4-13

[Snake]

What are you referring to?

The team being the best of the worst. Being middle of the pack in the league is not the best of the worst. You act like we would win the division at 4-13

They beat all the bad teams and lose to all the good teams. They’re the best of the worst.

[kaimaru]

I remember many of them. Just because you dismiss the past doesn't mean real fans do

Who was the fourth CB in 2013?

I remember a shadow of himself Revis and Banks. Who the fuck knows our 4th CB?

[Doctor]

The team being the best of the worst. Being middle of the pack in the league is not the best of the worst. You act like we would win the division at 4-13

They beat all the bad teams and lose to all the good teams. They’re the best of the worst.

Who are the miami dolphins?

[Navybuc]

They beat all the bad teams and lose to all the good teams. They’re the best of the worst.

Who are the miami dolphins?

Miami beat the Cowboys, something we can only do if we play Madden 24 rookie level.

Nice try there, Chief.

[Snake]

The team currently getting +1300 to +1600 odds (~6.25% implied odds) to win the Super Bowl? What about them?

[Doctor]

Oh boy, they squeeked by the cowboys, I guess that just totally solidifies your amazing unbreakable rule.

Believe me, I'm surrounded by Miami fans, the narrative is very much that they can't beat good teams. See, you think you hold a monopoly on being a traumatized, jaded fan but you don't.

[Bootz]

Who are the miami dolphins?

Miami beat the Cowboys, something we can only do if we play Madden 24 rookie level.

Nice try there, Chief.

Sorry @Doctor got you with here. You badly missed the mark on this one.

Bucs SOV: .414
Dolphins SOV: .352


SOV=Strength of victory.