The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
White seems like a #2 back we're trying to turn into a #1. He should be the change of pace/3d down back and not the primary ball carrier. Imo.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
He's definitely a change of pace back. Good at catching out of the backfield. But he is God awful as a pass protector though. That's why Chase Edmonds was put in on 3rd downs more as the year went on.BucsNBills wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 2:49 pm White seems like a #2 back we're trying to turn into a #1. He should be the change of pace/3d down back and not the primary ball carrier. Imo.
I hate using this word but RB is another position we've done the absolute bare minimum. A late 3rd & a bunch of JAGS at best. Might work if you have a people moving OL, which we don't. So it's no mistake this has been the 2 time defending worst run game in football.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Late picks and JAGs has worked just fine for all sorts of winning NFL teams.Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:07 pmHe's definitely a change of pace back. Good at catching out of the backfield. But he is God awful as a pass protector though. That's why Chase Edmonds was put in on 3rd downs more as the year went on.BucsNBills wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 2:49 pm White seems like a #2 back we're trying to turn into a #1. He should be the change of pace/3d down back and not the primary ball carrier. Imo.
I hate using this word but RB is another position we've done the absolute bare minimum. A late 3rd & a bunch of JAGS at best. Might work if you have a people moving OL, which we don't. So it's no mistake this has been the 2 time defending worst run game in football.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
What does that have to do with this team that's had the worst run game 2 years in a row?Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:51 pmLate picks and JAGs has worked just fine for all sorts of winning NFL teams.Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:07 pm
He's definitely a change of pace back. Good at catching out of the backfield. But he is God awful as a pass protector though. That's why Chase Edmonds was put in on 3rd downs more as the year went on.
I hate using this word but RB is another position we've done the absolute bare minimum. A late 3rd & a bunch of JAGS at best. Might work if you have a people moving OL, which we don't. So it's no mistake this has been the 2 time defending worst run game in football.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
That investing premium picks and/or money in the RB position does not always correlate to being a great running team nor does it correlate to winning for plenty of teams that have invested in the position.Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:21 pmWhat does that have to do with this team that's had the worst run game 2 years in a row?Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:51 pm
Late picks and JAGs has worked just fine for all sorts of winning NFL teams.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
In other words I don't think a premium RB on this team in 22 and 23 really changes the outcome all that much.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
You missed the part about the OL I see. Having a backfield with JAGS works IF you have an OL that can be productive. See the Chiefs, Ravens, Cowboys for reference.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:19 pmThat investing premium picks and/or money in the RB position does not always correlate to being a great running team nor does it correlate to winning for plenty of teams that have invested in the position.
We don't. We have JAGS in the backfield and probably worse overall up front. Again, it's not as if the run game has just been bad or terrible. It's been the worst in football. You think we should just do nothing because of what other teams have done?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
No. I think they'll address iOL early in this draft, Mauch will improve in year 2, and the running game overall will improve next season.Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:25 pmYou missed the part about the OL I see. Having a backfield with JAGS works IF you have an OL that can be productive. See the Chiefs, Ravens, Cowboys for reference.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:19 pm
That investing premium picks and/or money in the RB position does not always correlate to being a great running team nor does it correlate to winning for plenty of teams that have invested in the position.
We don't. We have JAGS in the backfield and probably worse overall up front. Again, it's not as if the run game has just been bad or terrible. It's been the worst in football. You think we should just do nothing because of what other teams have done?
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Sure, you might believe that. They could drop significantly. It's a crapshoot
Ie: Logan Hall
Ie: Logan Hall
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
It just sounds like talking out of two sides of one’s mouth. people saying, “but we’re going to add iOL talent in the draft,” (implying said talent will lead to immediate bettering of the o-line) will also say fans need to be patient with development and rookies aren’t always good.
Idk. As of today, I expect a bottom 5 run game again.
Idk. As of today, I expect a bottom 5 run game again.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
If they add Barton or Johnson in the first or a pure guard in round two you don’t think those players would improve our line somewhat immediately?Snake wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:21 am It just sounds like talking out of two sides of one’s mouth. people saying, “but we’re going to add iOL talent in the draft,” (implying said talent will lead to immediate bettering of the o-line) will also say fans need to be patient with development and rookies aren’t always good.
Idk. As of today, I expect a bottom 5 run game again.
And obviously I believe Mauch improves as well.
If we get another Licht small school special tackle athlete to convert to guard then I’d agree we’re unlikely to see significant immediate improvement.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I don't know where this blind faith that Cody Mauch will improve comes from @Grahamburn. You just keep repeating the same thing. This isn't Madden where you attributes automatically improve as long as your potential is A or B and you're under 30 years old.
Mauch looks like a terrible fit at G, much like Robert Hainsey is a terrible fit a C. He's in his 4th year and we've yet to see improvement. It doesn't just happen because you say it will.
Mauch looks like a terrible fit at G, much like Robert Hainsey is a terrible fit a C. He's in his 4th year and we've yet to see improvement. It doesn't just happen because you say it will.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Bootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:48 am I don't know where this blind faith that Cody Mauch will improve comes from @Grahamburn. You just keep repeating the same thing. This isn't Madden where you attributes automatically improve as long as your potential is A or B and you're under 30 years old.
Mauch looks like a terrible fit at G, much like Robert Hainsey is a terrible fit a C. He's in his 4th year and we've yet to see improvement. It doesn't just happen because you say it will.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
That's actually proving the point that you have no idea what you're seeing or you dont watch the games. He played 17 games and instead of stating your case you post a video breakdown of someone's opinion on 1 game.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:05 amBootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:48 am I don't know where this blind faith that Cody Mauch will improve comes from @Grahamburn. You just keep repeating the same thing. This isn't Madden where you attributes automatically improve as long as your potential is A or B and you're under 30 years old.
Mauch looks like a terrible fit at G, much like Robert Hainsey is a terrible fit a C. He's in his 4th year and we've yet to see improvement. It doesn't just happen because you say it will.
Edit: I'm sorry, 2 videos.
You also said "be patient, he'll improve". Yet this guy (I believe PM posted at least 1 of these videos months ago) says he's already a beast and a steal. That would mean he had a great year, right?
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I post actual videos of breakdowns of Mauch’s play at RG in the NFL as a rookie. After making a transition from LT at an FCS school. You say he’s not a fit. But, I’m the one who’s delusional?
You’re something else.
You’re something else.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Mauch took 1012 snaps as a rookie. Cumulative in these 2 videos is probably what, 20-35 snaps at the most? And I'm probably being generous there.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:21 am I post actual videos of breakdowns of Mauch’s play at RG in the NFL as a rookie. After making a transition from LT at an FCS school. You say he’s not a fit. But, I’m the one who’s delusional?
You’re something else.
The information you shared accounts for roughly 2% of the data on Cody Mauch. And you're using it as some proof that he had a great year or gives us reason to be hopeful for his future.
Yea, that's delusional.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I could only watch about 10 minutes before having to close it.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 8:05 amBootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 7:48 am I don't know where this blind faith that Cody Mauch will improve comes from @Grahamburn. You just keep repeating the same thing. This isn't Madden where you attributes automatically improve as long as your potential is A or B and you're under 30 years old.
Mauch looks like a terrible fit at G, much like Robert Hainsey is a terrible fit a C. He's in his 4th year and we've yet to see improvement. It doesn't just happen because you say it will.
The guys breaking that down seem to be... optimistic, let's say, and they are letting their optimism blind them to Mauch's issues. And those analysts were often incorrect to my eyes, I agreed with them maybe a quarter of the time. For example, saying Mauch did a great job in the run game on a double team with Goedeke when Mauch was at best a passive observer of Goedeke booming a defensive tackle is just factually inaccurate.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
30 seconds in the guys says "Mauch had an up & down day".
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Screw you guys... I'm going home.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Those Bears reps look damn good to me. :shrug:
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Is that because of the RB or the OL?? A decent RB can look damn good behind a good OL and a damn good RB can look very average behind a shit OL. I'm a fan of shooting for the best OL you can get and putting a decent RB behind them, he doesn't have to be great if he's not having to break tackles in the backfield every time he touches the ball.Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:21 pmWhat does that have to do with this team that's had the worst run game 2 years in a row?Grahamburn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:51 pm
Late picks and JAGs has worked just fine for all sorts of winning NFL teams.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
So is White a good RB?Selmon Rules wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:45 pmIs that because of the RB or the OL?? A decent RB can look damn good behind a good OL and a damn good RB can look very average behind a shit OL. I'm a fan of shooting for the best OL you can get and putting a decent RB behind them, he doesn't have to be great if he's not having to break tackles in the backfield every time he touches the ball.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I think he's a hell of a lot better than this board gives him credit for. White didn't ask to be a bell cow back despite not fitting the archetype at all. We've asked for a RB who can catch passes for years. White caught everything thrown his way, and was excellent at making people miss in open space. That's his job imo.Bootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:27 pmSo is White a good RB?Selmon Rules wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:45 pm
Is that because of the RB or the OL?? A decent RB can look damn good behind a good OL and a damn good RB can look very average behind a shit OL. I'm a fan of shooting for the best OL you can get and putting a decent RB behind them, he doesn't have to be great if he's not having to break tackles in the backfield every time he touches the ball.
He is what he is between the tackles. That's really not a strength of his game, especially behind the Bucs iOL. He still played all 17 games while taking on a massive workload that should never have been asked of him.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
So you agree with me then?Backside wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:54 pmI think he's a hell of a lot better than this board gives him credit for. White didn't ask to be a bell cow back despite not fitting the archetype at all. We've asked for a RB who can catch passes for years. White caught everything thrown his way, and was excellent at making people miss in open space. That's his job imo.
He is what he is between the tackles. That's really not a strength of his game, especially behind the Bucs iOL. He still played all 17 games while taking on a massive workload that should never have been asked of him.
Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:07 pmHe's definitely a change of pace back. Good at catching out of the backfield. But he is God awful as a pass protector though. That's why Chase Edmonds was put in on 3rd downs more as the year went on.BucsNBills wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 2:49 pm White seems like a #2 back we're trying to turn into a #1. He should be the change of pace/3d down back and not the primary ball carrier. Imo.
I hate using this word but RB is another position we've done the absolute bare minimum. A late 3rd & a bunch of JAGS at best. Might work if you have a people moving OL, which we don't. So it's no mistake this has been the 2 time defending worst run game in football.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Yea, pretty much.Bootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:51 pmSo you agree with me then?Backside wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:54 pm
I think he's a hell of a lot better than this board gives him credit for. White didn't ask to be a bell cow back despite not fitting the archetype at all. We've asked for a RB who can catch passes for years. White caught everything thrown his way, and was excellent at making people miss in open space. That's his job imo.
He is what he is between the tackles. That's really not a strength of his game, especially behind the Bucs iOL. He still played all 17 games while taking on a massive workload that should never have been asked of him.
Bootz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:07 pm
He's definitely a change of pace back. Good at catching out of the backfield. But he is God awful as a pass protector though. That's why Chase Edmonds was put in on 3rd downs more as the year went on.
I hate using this word but RB is another position we've done the absolute bare minimum. A late 3rd & a bunch of JAGS at best. Might work if you have a people moving OL, which we don't. So it's no mistake this has been the 2 time defending worst run game in football.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Per CBSSports.com
"[Brady] took our starting offensive line to the side and he's like, 'Hey, if you guys can get a screen to go for more than 15 yards, I will give you $1,000 cash each. That is for you guys; so every time that we get that, I will be happy to make that payment,'" Marpet said, via JoeBucsFan.com.
"[Brady] took our starting offensive line to the side and he's like, 'Hey, if you guys can get a screen to go for more than 15 yards, I will give you $1,000 cash each. That is for you guys; so every time that we get that, I will be happy to make that payment,'" Marpet said, via JoeBucsFan.com.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Don't do it. That is what @Bootz wants you to do. He is never right, he just wears people down with bullshit.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I think he is good. Not great as of now but goodBootz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:27 pmSo is White a good RB?Selmon Rules wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:45 pm
Is that because of the RB or the OL?? A decent RB can look damn good behind a good OL and a damn good RB can look very average behind a shit OL. I'm a fan of shooting for the best OL you can get and putting a decent RB behind them, he doesn't have to be great if he's not having to break tackles in the backfield every time he touches the ball.
Can he be great?? Maybe with an better line that allows him to be but we don't know one way or the other. I do think it would take another RB with Barry Sanders type skill set to be great behind the line we had last year
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
We know @Bootz think White is the second coming of Walter Payton. He would be all world if we just had someone better than Mauch blocking.Selmon Rules wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:53 pmI think he is good. Not great as of now but good
Can he be great?? Maybe with an better line that allows him to be but we don't know one way or the other. I do think it would take another RB with Barry Sanders type skill set to be great behind the line we had last year
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Yes please.Cheb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:44 amI could only watch about 10 minutes before having to close it.
The guys breaking that down seem to be... optimistic, let's say, and they are letting their optimism blind them to Mauch's issues. And those analysts were often incorrect to my eyes, I agreed with them maybe a quarter of the time. For example, saying Mauch did a great job in the run game on a double team with Goedeke when Mauch was at best a passive observer of Goedeke booming a defensive tackle is just factually inaccurate.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
Kinda surprised honestly. Licht usually does this as a formality.
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Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
I don't get thinking "welp, I've seen enough on Mauch, he will always be exactly what he is right now forever and ever."
The most important trait he, and all our OL have, is the deep desire to get better and stronger to blow more people up. Put him between Wirfs and Barton, I'm not really losing sleep.
The most important trait he, and all our OL have, is the deep desire to get better and stronger to blow more people up. Put him between Wirfs and Barton, I'm not really losing sleep.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id ... ris-godwin
Can someone explain what this contract means?
Godwin isn’t under contract after this coming season but has $18m dead cap hit next season? And $10m between 2026/2027?
Those voids be voiding.
Can someone explain what this contract means?
Godwin isn’t under contract after this coming season but has $18m dead cap hit next season? And $10m between 2026/2027?
Those voids be voiding.
Re: The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread
So technically speaking those are what a players cap hits would be if their contract didn't stipulate that those void years automatically void upon a previously specified date. The reason they do that is it gives a team the opportunity to extend the player and either push those void hits even further, allows them to restructure the hit, or take on the hit all at once.Snake wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:11 pm https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id ... ris-godwin
Can someone explain what this contract means?
Godwin isn’t under contract after this coming season but has $18m dead cap hit next season? And $10m between 2026/2027?
Those voids be voiding.
The figures you see for 2026 & 2027 are included in the 2025 total.
Godwin's void hit is $18,856,000. Let's take the cap hits for 2026 & 2027.
2026- $7,534,000
2027- $3,784,000
Add those 2 totals together, you get $11,318,00. Now here's where it'll make sense. Take the 2025 total of $18,856,000 and subtract $11,318,000. You get exactly $7,534,000, the exact total of the 2026 hit.
That means that Godwin's actual void hits are $7,534,000 in 2025 & 2026 and $3,784,000, which matches the total of the restructured hits we added to his deal.
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