AVOID this QB

[Snake]

Couldn't help but notice how you left out that Winston lost all of 1 game his whole career.

Meanwhile Caleb went 1-5 most recently and didn't win anything but a bowl game 3 years ago.

Stetson Bennett went 29-1 his junior and senior year. Clearly he will be better in the NFL than Caleb Williams.

[Phantom]

Plus, Georgia had an elite defense.

I'll bet you $50 the Carolina Panthers beat the USC defense by 4 touchdown

[Doctor]

No mention of stats.

Looks like you're just making stuff up.

[Grahamburn]

Ok. What is your point?

If you think Senior Bowl means something. Lord help me.

AVOID

Just pointing out there’s some hype and he’s had a nice off-season. Being the best QB at the Senior Boel isn’t nothing.

Licht loves Senior Bowl standouts. As do many other GMs.

[Navybuc]

No mention of stats.

Looks like you're just making stuff up.

I showed you all the stats that shows Caleb’s numbers were better than Jameis yet you said Jameis’ career obliterated that of Caleb’s. Just admit that was a dumb statement dude and move on.

I know you’re not the brightest tool in the shed either, but you know that Caleb and Jameis didn’t play defense, right? So when you compare records and their total wins, that the defenses have a say in those records? Just saying. Hence why Stetson Bennet, according to your logic, was a better qb than Patrick Mahomes.

[Doctor]

That's my point boy genius. You keep saying I'm asking for stats, not once did I bring up stats. Stats are for losers. Like Caleb.

[Navybuc]

That's my point boy genius. You keep saying I'm asking for stats, not once did I bring up stats. Stats are for losers. Like Caleb.

So this is what I think me and most everyone took away from all this. If I"m wrong, please, someone correct me.

You: Jameis Winston college career obliterated that of Caleb Williams.
Me: (Provide stats that illustrate that's a 100% false statement)
You: But Jameis had a better record than Caleb, therefore he was far superior.
Me: (Provide examples that show we can't compare QBs based on records)
You: Well, stats are for losers. Jameis was better because I said so. I like Jameis and hate Caleb.

[Snake]

The scary thing is, he works with numbers for a living.

[Navybuc]

The scary thing is, he works with numbers for a living.

And he uses Baker Mayfield’s stats all the time as an indicator of how good a QB he was this year. But now all of a sudden stats are for losers. I’m just so confused.

[Doctor]

Me: "I don't know how you measure success, but Winston's career obliterated Caleb"
You: "By stats! That's how!"
Me: "That's an odd way. I think a guy with one loss who actually won a chip is clearly more successful. If you asked me as a fan whose career I'd want my school to experience, it's not Caleb with his 10 losses, 1-5 ended, and peak achievement being a 3 year old bowl game."
You: "But you said stats! And I showed you stats! And we agreed stats = success, not really, but I'll pretend we did to make my point!"

I get Caleb is the latest savoir but get a grip.

[Navybuc]

Me: "I don't know how you measure success, but Winston's career obliterated Caleb"
You: "By stats! That's how!"
Me: "That's an odd way. I think a guy with one loss who actually won a chip is clearly more successful. If you asked me as a fan whose career I'd want my school to experience, it's not Caleb with his 10 losses, 1-5 ended, and peak achievement being a 3 year old bowl game."
You: "But you said stats! And I showed you stats! And we agreed stats = success, not really, but I'll pretend we did to make my point!"

I get Caleb is the latest savoir but get a grip.

So Jameis Winston obliterated Jayden Daniels' career, too, huh?

And you bring up Baker Mayfield's stats this year all the time and not so much his record, so I'm trying to figure out how you say sometimes stats are a definition for success and other times they're not? You're talking out of two sides of your mouth.

Funny thing is I actually hate Caleb Williams, but I'm not one of these idiots who is willing to go out and say Jameis Winston's career obliterated his. Williams had an outstanding college career, and many of those losses were on the shoulders of USC's dreadful defense, just like a lot of Daniels' losses were because of his D.

[Selmon Rules]

Caleb Williams. He has a lot of talent. But can he handle losing games in the NFL? He hasn't handled college loses well.

I think Caleb will be fine. Talent is there. Maturity will come with time. While I’m not a fan, he’s gonna grow up and figure it out. He’s got the skills or else every expert out there wouldn’t be calling him the top prospect in the draft. And if he lands with the Bears, it’s a great situation for him.

Ryan Leaf says "Hi"

I have no idea how this kid is going to work out but I'm kinda glad we don't have to make a decision on him

[Jonny]

@Doctor , why do you not reply to posts and instead have a stand alone post as a response to the guy you are arguing with?

It is one of the oddest tendencies and shows up especially when you are arguing with someone.

My theory: You do that because you don't want the person you are arguing with to see your post, so that you can have the last word.

Or you do that because you want to remove context from an ongoing debate. Either way I hope you cut that shit out.

I agree with you that Jameis was a far better college QB and prospect than Caleb Williams. But I hate the way you debate.

[Doctor]

90% on my replies are from my phone using the Quick Reply on the bottom. I'm usually responding to the very least post too. Like now.

Sometimes when someone had snuck in a reply before mine I'll go back and edit in a quote for clarification.

[Grahamburn]

90% on my replies are from my phone using the Quick Reply on the bottom. I'm usually responding to the very least post too. Like now.

Sometimes when someone had snuck in a reply before mine I'll go back and edit in a quote for clarification.

It’s literally one extra click to quote the post you’re replying to.

[Backside]

I'll stake a lot on Caleb being a better pro than Winston.

[Snake]

I'll stake a lot on Caleb being a better pro than Winston.

Absolutely.

[Doctor]

I mean at this point we already saw one players hand and it hasn't added up to a whole lot. Barring a wild resurgence in Atlanta (you heard it here first), yeah you are better off betting on any rookie being better than Winston in hindsight.

Despite dogmatics belief in the contrary, where these players land will be everything. If we are doing premature betting, my money is on Daniels.

[Grahamburn]

Jameis is a free agent. I wonder if he’ll get a chance to start somewhere?

[Doctor]

The Raheem Winston Revenge Tour.
Book your tickets now.

[BuccaNOLEer]

Plus, Georgia had an elite defense.

I'll bet you $50 the Carolina Panthers beat the USC defense by 4 touchdown

FSU won that natty BECAUSE of Winston. Georgia won their nattys IN SPITE of Bennett. He was nothing more than a game manager.

[Phantom]

This has nothing to do with Winston but ok.


Random

[Grahamburn]

The Raheem Winston Revenge Tour.
Book your tickets now.

Could be a thing.

[Navybuc]

90% on my replies are from my phone using the Quick Reply on the bottom. I'm usually responding to the very least post too. Like now.

Sometimes when someone had snuck in a reply before mine I'll go back and edit in a quote for clarification.

It’s literally one extra click to quote the post you’re replying to.

Doctor is not the brightest tool in the shed. He’s pretty much proven that already.

[Doctor]

No need to get mean friend. I see what I see and I call it as I see it.

I'll own my misses as much as my wins and would put my record up against any one else on this board. Especially after this last season.

[BuccaNOLEer]

This has nothing to do with Winston but ok.


Random

Winston was mentioned by someone else in this thread. He was an elite college QB. Bennett on the other hand was not. You didn't see his name in any Heisman conversations.

[Phantom]

I don’t care. My post has NOTHING to do with Winston!

[Grahamburn]

https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/fire ... -carolina/

[kaimaru]

https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/fire ... -carolina/

That said "gritty, moxie, fiery" sounds like someone on our roster already. This part absolutely does:

Quick, compact release. Best arm in this class and the prettiest ball. Will force throws. Touch is outstanding. Ball placement could improve on deeper passes. Streaky. Fiery aura. Does not get rattled. Stone-cold confident.

There is a certain je ne sais quoi about him.

[kaimaru]

I agree with @Doctor, between Caleb's immaturity, conceit, and hubris, I think he will fail in the NFL

[kaimaru]

Tell us how you really feel

Zach Wilson is Better Than J.J. McCarthy

Lack of explosive plays by McCarthy
The dead giveaway on game film that McCarthy is headed for the bench in the NFL is the lack of explosive plays he produced in 2023.

I sat for hours watching McCarthy play inconsistent dink-and-dunk football (hours I’ll never get back) in the short-to-intermediate route levels. McCarthy was the No. 51 ranked college QB in passing yards (espn.com). The problem with inconsistent dink-and-dunk football is too much can go wrong, drives breakdown, and that’s what losing is all about in the NFL.

I charted 12 deep passing attempts in 13 games, and half of those were completed (one even got tipped up in the air by a Bowling Green defender). One of the deep incompletions turned into an interception.

Throws like a pitcher who walks too many batters
McCarthy has average arm strength so he has to drive the ball downfield. He has this elongated throwing motion with a really wide base that resembles a baseball pitcher coming off the mound.

Worse yet, he tends to lock in with receivers and was inconsistent going through his progressions. He had four interceptions in 2023 and an additional 16 pass breakups (1.23 per-game-avg) I charted.

These factors make ESPN SportsCenter highlights (for NFL cornerbacks).

Not to mention, his ball placement short-to-intermediate is all over the road. I guess you could say too many of his passes were outside ‘the strike zone.’

https://firstroundmock.com/2023/12/zach ... -mccarthy/

[Snake]

It’s crazy how you can watch the same film as somebody else and come to a vastly different conclusion about the same player.

From a purely statistical standpoint (without looking at the film), it’s really a coin flip (at best) whether or not he’s going to pan out. And then there’s various tiers of panning out. Spot starter, career back up, average starter, star.

Production is important when evaluating players. I think context is also important and JJ requires a lot of contextual understanding and extrapolation.

[kaimaru]

It’s crazy how you can watch the same film as somebody else and come to a vastly different conclusion about the same player.

From a purely statistical standpoint (without looking at the film), it’s really a coin flip (at best) whether or not he’s going to pan out. And then there’s various tiers of panning out. Spot starter, career back up, average starter, star.

Production is important when evaluating players. I think context is also important and JJ requires a lot of contextual understanding and extrapolation.

He claims he watched film and personally charted passes, I am not sure where he was just looking at stats

[Grahamburn]

Same stuff I see with McCarthy.

Interesting that Daniel Kelley was employed with the Jets when they drafted Wilson. Had a 3rd round grade on him.

He doesn’t much like Williams either and Rattler is his QB1.

Guy doesn’t pull any punches.

[Snake]

Rattler being QB1 is amazing.