Rapid Reactions: Bucs Lose to the Colts 27-20

[Grahamburn]

Just let Bowles keep losing at this point. Wouldn't want to spark a winning streak by firing him.

[Al Bundy]

You have to remember that Baker is Bowles' guy. The minute they signed him and he started gloating over him you knew Trask had no chance to ever play. Bowles is going to start him even if Tom Brady said he wanted to come back and play. (In which case the Glazers would fire Bowles for refusing to start Brady.) But that's where this is headed. Bowles knows the ship is sinking, but he is going to go down starting his guy come hell or high water. As for Licht, I'm sure he wants Trask to start but he probably knows he sucks and saves face because he can simply say at the end of the year, "Baker was Bowles' guy", not mine.

Maybe it's time to get rid of Bowles then. Panthers just got rid of Reich. We should be doing the same. And whoever the interim head coach is should give Trask a shot so the front office can clearly see what he is made of.

They already know, and he isn't it.

[Central_Buc]

Just let Bowles keep losing at this point. Wouldn't want to spark a winning streak by firing him.

The shame is that Bowles while being a great guy and a great defensive mind. We will miss him as a DC. He just doesn't have it in him to be HC.

[Buc2]

Lmao at you guys arguing with TrollDoc for 3 pages. That's Bootz-level stupid.

[13F11B]

Just let Bowles keep losing at this point. Wouldn't want to spark a winning streak by firing him.

The shame is that Bowles while being a great guy and a great defensive mind. We will miss him as a DC. He just doesn't have it in him to be HC.

I am not even sure he is a great DC. I was not a fan of his defense for most of his tenure here. I get that many feel his defense is great, but far too often the defense has given up big plays at the ends of games. I also remember it being rather awful on 3rd down for most of his time here. I agree that he seems to be a great guy.

[Doctor]

His defense comes with its own risk it biscuits. Its what made the grave diggers great. We've seen what seasoned veterans can do in this system, even on the downside of their careers.

Our current squad is one of the youngest in the league and lack a lot of seasoning. Its filled with so many almosts and close calls, especially in the pass rush. If we get one guy to take the next step we can see the ripple effect. Hopefully its this year, preferably sooner rather than later, but it might not be until next year. Or until some FA signing or trade.

[BuccaNOLEer]

Just let Bowles keep losing at this point. Wouldn't want to spark a winning streak by firing him.

The shame is that Bowles while being a great guy and a great defensive mind. We will miss him as a DC. He just doesn't have it in him to be HC.

He's not even that special as a DC. Very vanilla scheme and can't be counted on to put the clamps on the opposing offense with the game on the line.

[MJW]

His defense comes with its own risk it biscuits. Its what made the grave diggers great. We've seen what seasoned veterans can do in this system, even on the downside of their careers.

Our current squad is one of the youngest in the league and lack a lot of seasoning. Its filled with so many almosts and close calls, especially in the pass rush. If we get one guy to take the next step we can see the ripple effect. Hopefully its this year, preferably sooner rather than later, but it might not be until next year. Or until some FA signing or trade.

Yeah, nothing riskier than playing your corners 17 yards off.

[13F11B]

His defense comes with its own risk it biscuits. Its what made the grave diggers great. We've seen what seasoned veterans can do in this system, even on the downside of their careers.

Our current squad is one of the youngest in the league and lack a lot of seasoning. Its filled with so many almosts and close calls, especially in the pass rush. If we get one guy to take the next step we can see the ripple effect. Hopefully its this year, preferably sooner rather than later, but it might not be until next year. Or until some FA signing or trade.

Yeah, nothing riskier than playing your corners 17 yards off.

Given that it happens on 3rd and 8 many, many, many times I would say that is how they are being coached vs. young guys making mistakes.

[Doctor]

Um what?



3 picks on Brees in a huge divisional game vs a team that's had our number. Total shut down. You think this game wasn't won defense?



Two three and outs on Rodgers on two of Bradys three second half turn overs in the NFCCG. And another critical stop on an Arod GW drive in the 4th. You think this game wasn't won on defense?



I know we've already dismissed how good the defense was in the Super Bowl because it makes thing easier, but 9 points is 9 points.


Oh, and he's done this not once, but twice. Building a SB level defense in Arizona. But I'm sure he's just lucked his whole through everything right?

[13F11B]

Maybe it's time to get rid of Bowles then. Panthers just got rid of Reich. We should be doing the same. And whoever the interim head coach is should give Trask a shot so the front office can clearly see what he is made of.

They already know, and he isn't it.

The they you are talking about are on the verge of getting fired. It might be wise to get a second opinion since we know the first one is bad.

[13F11B]

Um what?



3 picks on Brees in a huge divisional game vs a team that's had our number. Total shut down. You think this game wasn't won defense?



Two three and outs on Rodgers on two of Bradys three second half turn overs in the NFCCG. And another critical stop on an Arod GW drive in the 4th. You think this game wasn't won on defense?



I know we've already dismissed how good the defense was in the Super Bowl because it makes thing easier, but 9 points is 9 points.


Oh, and he's done this not once, but twice. Building a SB level defense in Arizona. But I'm sure he's just lucked his whole through everything right?

The Super Bowl run was amazing. It was, however, out of character.

[Doctor]

Right, just a broken clock fielding two SB defenses. Makes sense.

[Grahamburn]

You will get no argument from me that Bowles is a good to great DC when he has the horses. That's not his only job right now though.

[Babeinbucland]

You're not wrong. Fair enough. Do you want Bowles to be part of that plan?

I do not subscribe to "anyone but" dogma. If you can show you an actual genuine alternative I'll weigh it, but I think there are A LOT of options out there that would make the next few years a whole lot worse and a more than not likely chance we land one. Meanwhile, I don't let one play from a game 2 years ago overrule my judgment of what I see in front of us now.

What I see is a coach who has put together good defenses repeatedly, particularly one that picks off great QBs in big moments. The best at finding and developing DBs. One that actually has the very kind of blitz packages you want in today's NFL. But most importantly, I see a guy who still very much has the locker room. A guy who still has his players fully bought in, who come out saying "yeah, we saw the film, we saw the mistakes. The plays are there to be made, we just got to make them, it'll come". That Palmer drop changes things. That Winfield drop changes things. Those "almost" sacks change things. Those missed Baker reads change things. They know that and still believe THEY can be the change. That when they do make those plays they control their own destiny.

That kind of locker room culture is worth gold. On the other side, I appreciate his belief and handling of Canales and the offense. He isn't making any rash overrules because things aren't going well right away. He is letting Canales do this thing, and he's another coach who has players (and this fan) bought into what he's selling. We just got to get there. And yes, that maybe with be Nix or Penix or someone else.

I am asking this sincerely and with 100% curiosity - why do you think you are in the minority in believing what you do (above)?

[Doctor]

A few reasons, first defensive coaches historically get far shorter leashes. There is simply very little patience for "why haven't you solve QB yet" in this league. Even when there's literally pure trash options for years, you need to do magic.

Take Saleh for example. He's doing a brilliant job with that defense and he literally did everything he could to fix the OC/QB issues on the other side.... yet people are calling for his head. Because he "isn't doing enough".

Another reason is, point blank, we're simply a traumatized franchise. How often have we had a peace of mind, trust the process offseason vs everything is a dumpster fire, reset it all? Which neuropathways do you think we have most engrained?

Lastly, the allure of the clean out is always present. Even with repeated examples of failures and false prophets there's always a new one giving me hope to the dogma. Look at CJ Stroud, has the tank group salivating. And if he comes back down to earth or even vanishes, no worries, there will be some new shiny example. We want that and some are convinced the only way to get it is a new regime, and that its a matter of cycling thru FO until you find one with the "magic eye" to solve QB.

[acmillis]

A few reasons, first defensive coaches historically get far shorter leashes. There is simply very little patience for "why haven't you solve QB yet" in this league. Even when there's literally pure trash options for years, you need to do magic.

Take Saleh for example. He's doing a brilliant job with that defense and he literally did everything he could to fix the OC/QB issues on the other side.... yet people are calling for his head. Because he "isn't doing enough".

Another reason is, point blank, we're simply a traumatized franchise. How often have we had a peace of mind, trust the process offseason vs everything is a dumpster fire, reset it all? Which neuropathways do you think we have most engrained?

Lastly, the allure of the clean out is always present. Even with repeated examples of failures and false prophets there's always a new one giving me hope to the dogma. Look at CJ Stroud, has the tank group salivating. And if he comes back down to earth or even vanishes, no worries, there will be some new shiny example. We want that and some are convinced the only way to get it is a new regime, and that its a matter of cycling thru FO until you find one with the "magic eye" to solve QB.

I haven't heard a single media outlet say he should get the boot.

[Phantom]

A few reasons, first defensive coaches historically get far shorter leashes. There is simply very little patience for "why haven't you solve QB yet" in this league. Even when there's literally pure trash options for years, you need to do magic.

Take Saleh for example. He's doing a brilliant job with that defense and he literally did everything he could to fix the OC/QB issues on the other side.... yet people are calling for his head. Because he "isn't doing enough".

Another reason is, point blank, we're simply a traumatized franchise. How often have we had a peace of mind, trust the process offseason vs everything is a dumpster fire, reset it all? Which neuropathways do you think we have most engrained?

Lastly, the allure of the clean out is always present. Even with repeated examples of failures and false prophets there's always a new one giving me hope to the dogma. Look at CJ Stroud, has the tank group salivating. And if he comes back down to earth or even vanishes, no worries, there will be some new shiny example. We want that and some are convinced the only way to get it is a new regime, and that its a matter of cycling thru FO until you find one with the "magic eye" to solve QB.

I haven't heard a single media outlet say he should get the boot.

Same

[MJW]

I haven't heard a single media outlet say he should get the boot.

Same

That's because media outlets don't want to waste ten seconds of airtime talking about a mediocre, boring, bad, small market football team. I haven't heard any of them calling for Mike Vrabel's head for the same reason. Nobody cares enough to bother.

That's the Bowles effect.

[Doctor]

Y'all clearly not plugged into the NY circuit. I'll let @McFan comment on it.

[Grahamburn]

If we had the Jets defense we’d be 7-4. The problem IS the defense.

[Buc2]

And last but not least, he sucks as a HC as he's proven over a few years of trying. I personally don't care what side of the ball a HC was weaned on. If they can HC, then HC. If not, stick with what you did best. Not everyone is cut out to be a HC regardless of how good they were at their previous job. And there should be no shame in that.

[acmillis]

Same

That's because media outlets don't want to waste ten seconds of airtime talking about a mediocre, boring, bad, small market football team. I haven't heard any of them calling for Mike Vrabel's head for the same reason. Nobody cares enough to bother.

That's the Bowles effect.

We were saying we hadn't heard of anyone calling for Saleh's job.

[MJW]

Why is this a discussion? We're not debating if he should remain DC. I don't give a shit if he's the best DC in the universe. The Buccaneers suck. If he just wanted to concentrate on the defense (which btw has not been great, to say the least), he shouldn't have accepted the promotion and the pay bump.

Good luck to him when he's back to being a DC for someone next year. No hard feelings. And no more HC shots.

[Bootz]

A few reasons, first defensive coaches historically get far shorter leashes. There is simply very little patience for "why haven't you solve QB yet" in this league. Even when there's literally pure trash options for years, you need to do magic.

Take Saleh for example. He's doing a brilliant job with that defense and he literally did everything he could to fix the OC/QB issues on the other side.... yet people are calling for his head. Because he "isn't doing enough".

Another reason is, point blank, we're simply a traumatized franchise. How often have we had a peace of mind, trust the process offseason vs everything is a dumpster fire, reset it all? Which neuropathways do you think we have most engrained?

Lastly, the allure of the clean out is always present. Even with repeated examples of failures and false prophets there's always a new one giving me hope to the dogma. Look at CJ Stroud, has the tank group salivating. And if he comes back down to earth or even vanishes, no worries, there will be some new shiny example. We want that and some are convinced the only way to get it is a new regime, and that its a matter of cycling thru FO until you find one with the "magic eye" to solve QB.

1. Bill Belichick, New England Patriots
24 years 2000-Present

2. Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh Steelers
17 years 2007-Present

3. John Harbaugh, Baltimore Ravens
16 years 2008-Present

4. Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks
14 years 2010-Present

5. Andy Reid, Kansas City Chiefs
11 years 2013-Present

The 5 most tenured HCs currently. Belichick, Tomlin, and Carroll are all defensive coaches. Harbaugh made his hay as a ST coach but the year before the Ravens hired him he was the Eagles DB coach. Reid of course is offense.

Meanwhile, Frank Reich, who's supposedly a QB guru has been fired in-season in consecutive seasons. Josh McDaniels, another "offensive guru" didn't last 2 full seasons in either of his HC stops and was fired a month ago. Nathaniel Hackett, the Jets current OC, didn't even last a full season with the Broncos last season.

So I don't think your premise here passes the smell test.

[Doctor]

What do these teams have in common?
They had solved OC/QB for the majority of their tenure.
They did so without tanking.
They have incredibly patient, trust the process, fan bases and owners with very slow trigger fingers.

You want to stack up all the fired coaches from quick trigger teams? See which color, I mean coordinator type gets fewer years before the ax?

How good are these teams that fire coaches every two years and why are we desperate to be one?

[13F11B]

What do these teams have in common?
They had solved OC/QB for the majority of their tenure.
They did so without tanking.
They have incredibly patient, trust the process, fan bases and owners with very slow trigger fingers.

You want to stack up all the fired coaches from quick trigger teams? See which color, I mean coordinator type gets fewer years before the ax?

How good are these teams that fire coaches every two years and why are we desperate to be one?

I understand your points. I agree with them. However, Bowles has the same issues here as with the Jets. Why do you think it will magically get better?

[Doctor]

If you told me we were hiring John Morton or Jeremy Bates I'd agree with you and we'd be cooked. But we didn't. We hired Canales who I like infinitely more.

If you told me we'd be giving Darnold 5 years, I'd agree with you. But we're likely getting some new mystery QB.

Its not really magic. Its simply is Canales-McCarthy/Nix/Penix the same as Bates/Darnold?

I don't believe they are. And that is why I think any Jets talk is simply apples to oranges.

[Onthebrink]

If we had the Jets defense we’d be 7-4. The problem IS the defense.

You believe that the offense is not a problem? 9 games w/o scoring 21 points. 19.3 ppg. I remember the shit that the offense received last year. This offense scores .9 ppg more. The defense is a huge problem but the offense is dreadful as well.

[13F11B]

If we had the Jets defense we’d be 7-4. The problem IS the defense.

You believe that the offense is not a problem? 9 games w/o scoring 21 points. 19.3 ppg. I remember the shit that the offense received last year. This offense scores .9 ppg more. The defense is a huge problem but the offense is dreadful as well.

Its kinda mutual.

The defense can't get off the field and the offense is playing cold most of the game.
The offense can't stay on the field and the defense is getting worn out.

[Bootz]

The defense allowes the 12th fewest ppg. #2 in redzone defense. Sunday they allowed their 1st TD off of a turnover by the offense. 13th in total takeaways.

Anyone bitching about the defense has an agenda. Plain and simple.

[Snake]

I don’t hate the defense. The team isn’t complementary enough to be greater than sum of its parts tho, in my opinion.

Bucs are in bottom third in rushing attempts. Dead last in yards per carry. 9th in most offensive penalties.

The Bucs *are* 13th in the league in average drive time. And 12th in average number of plays per drive. They don’t even turn the ball over that much. They’re towards the bottom of the league in giveaways. On the plus side.

If they could run the ball, this team could be a problem. But they can’t. They are the worst in the NFL.

[GreatTimes]

I don’t hate the defense. The team isn’t complementary enough to be greater than sum of its parts tho, in my opinion.

Bucs are in bottom third in rushing attempts. Dead last in yards per carry. 9th in most offensive penalties.

The Bucs *are* 13th in the league in average drive time. And 12th in average number of plays per drive. They don’t even turn the ball over that much. They’re towards the bottom of the league in giveaways. On the plus side.

If they could run the ball, this team could be a problem. But they can’t. They are the worst in the NFL.

And the Bucs are 23rd in scoring points.

[Doctor]

We haven't been able to run the ball in ten years but Canales is suppose to turn it around in 10 games?

No one is saying we've arrived but the OL has improved a lot since week 1. They are gelling together and it shows. White too is starting to feel the lanes better. We couldn't break 2 yard before contact before the bye, now we regularly get over 2 and have done 2.7 ybc in 2 of the last 3.No magic OT draft pick or anything. Sheer player development. Its not flashy or instant, but the improvements have been there.

[Cheb]

The defense allowes the 12th fewest ppg. #2 in redzone defense. Sunday they allowed their 1st TD off of a turnover by the offense. 13th in total takeaways.

Anyone bitching about the defense has an agenda. Plain and simple.

Over the last four games, the defense has allowed an average of 24.75 ppg, which extrapolated over a season's worth of play would make them the sixth-worst scoring defense in the NFL. And that's including a very good 6 points allowed against the Titans, which drastically drops that number.

In the same four game span, the defense has allowed 379.75 yards per game, which would be fourth worst in the NFL.

The defense at the beginning of the season was pretty good. Lately, they've been among the worst in the NFL.