So let me ask

[Navybuc]

Todd Bowles is just not a good HC. He's already proven that with the Jets and has done nothing here to show that he's good. We won a SB with Bruce Arians, and since he left, we have gone downhill. We got worse in 2021...then worse in 2022...and now arguably worse in 2023. So just because he won a couple of division titles in a garbage-ass division titles, we should keep him around? You're talking about owners who fired two head coaches after they had back-to-back winning seasons. I don't think the Glazers are going to buy the argument of keeping Bowles around because he won a division title with a losing record.

This is Bowles' year to prove himself. This is his defense. He wanted Baker Mayfield, not Kyle Trask. He wanted Dave Canales. And so far, the reviews are not very good. If I were him, I'd at least start calling around to some coaches and asking about defensive coaching opportunities next season.

[Grahamburn]

So my question for everyone who wants to retain Bowles. If the bucs miss the playoffs, are you still as high on him?

He would be missing the playoffs in a weak division with a talented roster(as some of you like to point out).

How would you feel if we finished 3rd in the division? Because we very well could.

I'm not so sure it's people necessarily being high on Bowles so much as they're just generally positive and want to hope for the best. I gave them the benefit of the doubt in the off-season, but I've seen enough and don't expect this ship to get righted. It's taking on water. That defense quit on Sunday.

[Phantom]

Navybucs said it best, If you think otherwise then you’re dumb as a rock.

[13F11B]

Todd Bowles is just not a good HC. He's already proven that with the Jets and has done nothing here to show that he's good. We won a SB with Bruce Arians, and since he left, we have gone downhill. We got worse in 2021...then worse in 2022...and now arguably worse in 2023. So just because he won a couple of division titles in a garbage-ass division titles, we should keep him around? You're talking about owners who fired two head coaches after they had back-to-back winning seasons. I don't think the Glazers are going to buy the argument of keeping Bowles around because he won a division title with a losing record.

This is Bowles' year to prove himself. This is his defense. He wanted Baker Mayfield, not Kyle Trask. He wanted Dave Canales. And so far, the reviews are not very good. If I were him, I'd at least start calling around to some coaches and asking about defensive coaching opportunities next season.

Arians was still with the Buccaneers as HC in 2021.

[Bootz]

Todd Bowles is just not a good HC. He's already proven that with the Jets and has done nothing here to show that he's good. We won a SB with Bruce Arians, and since he left, we have gone downhill. We got worse in 2021...then worse in 2022...and now arguably worse in 2023. So just because he won a couple of division titles in a garbage-ass division titles, we should keep him around? You're talking about owners who fired two head coaches after they had back-to-back winning seasons. I don't think the Glazers are going to buy the argument of keeping Bowles around because he won a division title with a losing record.

This is Bowles' year to prove himself. This is his defense. He wanted Baker Mayfield, not Kyle Trask. He wanted Dave Canales. And so far, the reviews are not very good. If I were him, I'd at least start calling around to some coaches and asking about defensive coaching opportunities next season.

Arians was still with the Buccaneers as HC in 2021.

Great to see that even though you have the most vitriol for Bowles than anyone here, you're objective and reasonable.

[Navybuc]

Todd Bowles is just not a good HC. He's already proven that with the Jets and has done nothing here to show that he's good. We won a SB with Bruce Arians, and since he left, we have gone downhill. We got worse in 2021...then worse in 2022...and now arguably worse in 2023. So just because he won a couple of division titles in a garbage-ass division titles, we should keep him around? You're talking about owners who fired two head coaches after they had back-to-back winning seasons. I don't think the Glazers are going to buy the argument of keeping Bowles around because he won a division title with a losing record.

This is Bowles' year to prove himself. This is his defense. He wanted Baker Mayfield, not Kyle Trask. He wanted Dave Canales. And so far, the reviews are not very good. If I were him, I'd at least start calling around to some coaches and asking about defensive coaching opportunities next season.

Arians was still with the Buccaneers as HC in 2021.

My bad. I was away at sea that year for 16 months so anything from 2021 is a bit fuzzy for me. Hey…I make mistakes.

So we’ve really regressed since Bowles took over because even thought we took a step back in 2021…we’ve taken a nose dive since.

[Babeinbucland]

This is called pushing a narrative, Babe. I have zero issues about the discussion of performance and whether or not Bowles should go or not. But when you get to the point of arguing "what does winning a division mean" as if there are alternate meanings to it, then you've disqualified your own argument because you're admitting you're creating your own interpretation that's not based in fact. The equivalent is a QB throws a pass 10 yards and a receiver takes it another 25 yards to score a 35 yard TD and you question "well did the QB really throw a TD pass"?


Let's keep this simple. Did Bowles team win the division in the 2022 season, yes or no? If there has to be an explanation of what that means them you're opening Pandora's box to a lot of things.

This is kind of spot on. When you start adding caveats to what winning a division ought to be then you can do so ad infinitum. Why is 10 games the bar, why not 11? Why does trouncing division opponents mean so much? What does trouncing mean? Is that winning by 10 points each game or just winning 5 out 6? You can move the bar wherever you want if it doesn't meet very specific criteria that you made up.

Can’t decide if y’all purposely misunderstand or joyfully misrepresent but whatever lol Winning the division is winning the division - and is not a measurement of how good the team is. What does measure how good a team is? You tell me since you seem to know what the criteria should be.

[Bootz]

This is kind of spot on. When you start adding caveats to what winning a division ought to be then you can do so ad infinitum. Why is 10 games the bar, why not 11? Why does trouncing division opponents mean so much? What does trouncing mean? Is that winning by 10 points each game or just winning 5 out 6? You can move the bar wherever you want if it doesn't meet very specific criteria that you made up.

Can’t decide if y’all purposely misunderstand or joyfully misrepresent but whatever lol Winning the division is winning the division - and is not a measurement of how good the team is. What does measure how good a team is? You tell me since you seem to know what the criteria should be.

Ummmm

if we win the division it should be at a minimum of 10 games and a clear trouncing of division opponents.

What was misrepresented or misunderstood here?

[13F11B]

I am going to try an analogy here.

Winning a division title with a losing record is like saying you scored when you sleep with an ugly person who is marginal in the bedroom.

Going 10-7 or 11-6 while not winning a division title is like getting to third base with an attractive person who is great in the bedroom

Some of you want to go all the way and do not care about the person being wolf ugly. I am a bit more picky.

[_MB_]

I am going to try an analogy here.

Winning a division title with a losing record is like saying you scored when you sleep with an ugly person who is marginal in the bedroom.

Going 10-7 or 11-6 while not winning a division title is like getting to third base with an attractive person who is great in the bedroom

Some of you want to go all the way and do not care about the person being wolf ugly. I am a bit more picky.

It's all good, man.

Lots of casual fans want a super bowl every year.

[Doctor]

Curious, if we had hired Nick Saban last year to the exact same outcome as we've had to this point, would we be using his time on the dolphins against him clamoring he's never had a winning season?

I put very little weight on his tenure with the Jets. Not none, just little. Because this isn't that. It isn't Mike Maccagnan, it's Jason Licht. This isn't Jeremy Bates, it's Dave Canales. And it's not Sam Darnold, but maybe Penix or McCarthy or Maye.

Tampa is not NY.

[13F11B]

I am going to try an analogy here.

Winning a division title with a losing record is like saying you scored when you sleep with an ugly person who is marginal in the bedroom.

Going 10-7 or 11-6 while not winning a division title is like getting to third base with an attractive person who is great in the bedroom

Some of you want to go all the way and do not care about the person being wolf ugly. I am a bit more picky.

It's all good, man.

Lots of casual fans want a super bowl every year.

Oh. I forgot that scenario.

Going 8-9, winning the division, and then making it to the Super Bowl.

That is like dating the ugly chick in high school, getting her pregnant, being forced to marry her... then her grand dad dies and leaves you 6 billon dollars. She is still ugly as sin, but at least you got some money.

[13F11B]

Curious, if we had hired Nick Saban last year to the exact same outcome as we've had to this point, would we be using his time on the dolphins against him clamoring he's never had a winning season?

Yes. I would never want Saban or Spurrier hired by the Buccaneers. They both sucked as NFL coaches and are not cut out for the League.

[_MB_]

It's all good, man.

Lots of casual fans want a super bowl every year.

Oh. I forgot that scenario.

Going 8-9, winning the division, and then making it to the Super Bowl.

That is like dating the ugly chick in high school, getting her pregnant, being forced to marry her... then her grand dad dies and leaves you 6 billon dollars. She is still ugly as sin, but at least you got some money.

And all the pussy that came with it.

You never got head from the Omega Mu's? That's a shame because those gals know how to party!

You can do worse than a billionaire's granddaughter.

[Grahamburn]

Curious, if we had hired Nick Saban last year to the exact same outcome as we've had to this point, would we be using his time on the dolphins against him clamoring he's never had a winning season?

I put very little weight on his tenure with the Jets. Not none, just little. Because this isn't that. It isn't Mike Maccagnan, it's Jason Licht. This isn't Jeremy Bates, it's Dave Canales. And it's not Sam Darnold, but maybe Penix or McCarthy or Maye.

Tampa is not NY.

The problem is through 25 games now in Tampa (11-14) we continue to see poor adjustments or a stubbornness to adjust at all, poor clock management, an overall lack of discipline with penalties and assignments, as well as inexplicable losses to bad teams and the inability to compete with good teams.

The question you have to ask is will those things change with Todd Bowles still the HC?

They use his history in NY because these are the same problems he had there. He had early draft picks and still couldn’t turn the Jets around.

He had Tom Brady here and went 8-9.

I think he’s a good coach. I’d say it’s clear his players like and respect him. But, it’s also becoming clear that he’s outmatched on Sundays. If we want to be more than mediocre we need a change.

[Pirate Life]

Two words: Jeff Fisher.
Another two: Ron Rivera.

If you looked up long term mediocrity Jeff Fisher's face would take up the entire page. Fun fact he and Ron Rivera won the same number of division titles with their 1st teams, 3 total. But Rivera did it in 9 years. Fisher did it in 16.

Rivera has won two division titles with teams that finished under .500. 12 years as a head coach, 3 winning seasons. I really don't want to go through that sort of frustration.

[mdb1958]

So do fans really have fun thinking they are picking their new coach.

[GreatTimes]

So do fans really have fun thinking they are picking their new coach.

Don't know about you, but I am standing by the phone, waiting for OBP to give me a call to head up a HC search committee. Aint gonna happen.

[Doctor]

See, you're just weaving you're own narrative.

Inexplicable losses to bad teams? Dude, we are $75M in debt with a first time OC- WE ARE THE BAD TEAM. And yet we've managed to keep it within one possession, hell sometimes the very least possession.

We literally have every reason and excuse in the book to be a bad, very bad team, and yet we're not. We're still in it every game. So much so people are actually MAD at the thought we may somehow win the division "in ugly fashion".

[Pirate Life]

See, you're just weaving you're own narrative.

Inexplicable losses to bad teams? Dude, we are $75M in debt with a first time OC- WE ARE THE BAD TEAM. And yet we've managed to keep it within one possession, hell sometimes the very least possession.

We literally have every reason and excuse in the book to be a bad, very bad team, and yet we're not. We're still in it every game. So much so people are actually MAD at the thought we may somehow win the division "in ugly fashion".

Honestly, that's more on the players than the coaches. Where would we be without Winfield's heroics this season? Likely lost the Saints game and the Atlanta game is a blowout without his performance on the field (and no, the coaches don't get credit for his breakup of the Olave TD or the punchout touchback fumble against Atlanta). Buffalo we were a great Jamal Dean pass breakup away from losing that one 31-18. Without some outstanding individual efforts in several games we would be a very bad team in pretty much every way possible.

Good coaches put their players in position to make plays and to succeed. We're not seeing that consistently with Bowles and this staff - and we still have some great players on both sides of the ball.

[Doctor]

I love how no matter the decade we always find ways to shift blame and credit around just enough so the conclusion always leads us back to cleaning house. It's like we're addicted to it.

[kaimaru]

I was considering starting a new thread, but let me express my thought here. We moved Dee Delany to safety last game bc stubborn Bowles finally admitted Ryan Neal was a liability. Not that he was much better. If anyone had an albatross on their neck was Carlton Davis. Boomer Esiason, Bill Cowher, and Chris Simms all piled on Bowles defensive decisions, lack of blitzing, and refusal to play man. Quite a few people think the defense has tuned Bowles out. Davis, Dean, and Hayes look doubtful. Meaning Dee Delany may be a starting corner and Izien may have to start at corner. Not looking good. That would also mean Ryan Neal is a starting safety again. My question is this. If Canales has to open up the playbook and we score 30+ (we now know Bowles is the reason we run so much). Who would be willing to fire Bowles now and see what an unhindered OC can do with this team as an interim coach?

[Doctor]

Can’t decide if y’all purposely misunderstand or joyfully misrepresent but whatever lol Winning the division is winning the division - and is not a measurement of how good the team is. What does measure how good a team is? You tell me since you seem to know what the criteria should be.

Ummmm

if we win the division it should be at a minimum of 10 games and a clear trouncing of division opponents.

What was misrepresented or misunderstood here?

Bingo. You have fans who have said that the literal worst case scenario is getting 9 wins, making the playoffs, and losing.

Seriously, they think that's "worst case".
What makes 10 wins and getting bounced a good season but 9 wins "the worst"? I'd love to hear the mental gymnastic used to explain that away. What about 11 wins?

By this moronic logic the steelers are an awful franchise and Mike Tomlin the worst coach as getting 9 to 11 wins and getting bounced from the playoffs is like 80% of his resume. And he hasn't ever even tried for a #1 pick! Its like he's always playing to win the game or something. Turd.

[Cheb]

I was considering starting a new thread, but let me express my thought here. We moved Dee Delany to safety last game bc stubborn Bowles finally admitted Ryan Neal was a liability. Not that he was much better. If anyone had an albatross on their neck was Carlton Davis. Boomer Esiason, Bill Cowher, and Chris Simms all piled on Bowles defensive decisions, lack of blitzing, and refusal to play man. Quite a few people think the defense has tuned Bowles out. Davis, Dean, and Hayes look doubtful. Meaning Dee Delany may be a starting corner and Izien may have to start at corner. Not looking good. That would also mean Ryan Neal is a starting safety again. My question is this. If Canales has to open up the playbook and we score 30+ (we now know Bowles is the reason we run so much). Who would be willing to fire Bowles now and see what an unhindered OC can do with this team as an interim coach?

The Glazers have never fired their head coach midseason, even when he's objectively bad. And they've had plenty of reason with coaches who were plenty worse than Bowles is/was.

I wouldn't hold my breath my dude.

[Snake]

The Steelers won’t be doing anything until they get great QB play. Like everyone else.

Not having a losing record over that period of time is impressive. But ultimately doesn’t accomplish anything. Strong mediocrity treadmill.

[Bootz]

I was considering starting a new thread, but let me express my thought here. We moved Dee Delany to safety last game bc stubborn Bowles finally admitted Ryan Neal was a liability. Not that he was much better. If anyone had an albatross on their neck was Carlton Davis. Boomer Esiason, Bill Cowher, and Chris Simms all piled on Bowles defensive decisions, lack of blitzing, and refusal to play man. Quite a few people think the defense has tuned Bowles out. Davis, Dean, and Hayes look doubtful. Meaning Dee Delany may be a starting corner and Izien may have to start at corner. Not looking good. That would also mean Ryan Neal is a starting safety again. My question is this. If Canales has to open up the playbook and we score 30+ (we now know Bowles is the reason we run so much). Who would be willing to fire Bowles now and see what an unhindered OC can do with this team as an interim coach?

Do people bother watching the games at all?

We scored 37 points in that game because we were balanced. Guess how many times we passed the ball? 30. Guess how many times we ran it? 31. Now 3 of Bakers 4 rushes were scrambles, so you can adjust some there. But for the most part us staying balanced allowed the PA game to work. We score the same number of times on the ground as we did through the air, twice each.

Furthermore I'd love to see evidence of this claim.

we now know Bowles is the reason we run so much).

Canales has been rather vocal and unapologetic about trying to establish a run game. He didn't "open up the playbook" much. There was simply better execution by our players.

I'm not at all defending Bowles here. He deserves a ton of criticism. But at least come with some facts. It's a good thing you didn't start a new thread.

[Grahamburn]

See, you're just weaving you're own narrative.

Inexplicable losses to bad teams? Dude, we are $75M in debt with a first time OC- WE ARE THE BAD TEAM. And yet we've managed to keep it within one possession, hell sometimes the very least possession.

We literally have every reason and excuse in the book to be a bad, very bad team, and yet we're not. We're still in it every game. So much so people are actually MAD at the thought we may somehow win the division "in ugly fashion".

Bowles has now lost to:

Pickett/Trubisky
P.J. Walker
Jacoby Brissett
Desmond Ridder (who is now benched) twice
C.J Stroud setting every rookie passing record in the book against us

And when we've played any team with a pulse they have completely throttled us. What is this one score game participation trophy stuff?

The Chiefs, Ravens, Bengals, 49ers, Cowboys, Eagles, Lions, and Bills have all murdered us like we weren't even there during Bowles' tenure.

[Grahamburn]

Ummmm



What was misrepresented or misunderstood here?

Bingo. You have fans who have said that the literal worst case scenario is getting 9 wins, making the playoffs, and losing.

Seriously, they think that's "worst case".
What makes 10 wins and getting bounced a good season but 9 wins "the worst"? I'd love to hear the mental gymnastic used to explain that away. What about 11 wins?

By this moronic logic the steelers are an awful franchise and Mike Tomlin the worst coach as getting 9 to 11 wins and getting bounced from the playoffs is like 80% of his resume. And he hasn't ever even tried for a #1 pick! Its like he's always playing to win the game or something. Turd.

I would be thrilled to win the division and would consider that a great success for the season. I believed that was possible before the season. I believed it was possible after a 3-1 start. I don't understand how this team has collapsed like this after a bye week and being almost completely healthy. To me, that's the guy at the top not having his team prepared to play and play well.

[_MB_]

This team is still fairly healthy. That matters in November.

[Snake]

Gotta be healthy for that ass reaming in the first round of the playoffs

[mdb1958]

I was considering starting a new thread, but let me express my thought here. We moved Dee Delany to safety last game bc stubborn Bowles finally admitted Ryan Neal was a liability. Not that he was much better. If anyone had an albatross on their neck was Carlton Davis. Boomer Esiason, Bill Cowher, and Chris Simms all piled on Bowles defensive decisions, lack of blitzing, and refusal to play man. Quite a few people think the defense has tuned Bowles out. Davis, Dean, and Hayes look doubtful. Meaning Dee Delany may be a starting corner and Izien may have to start at corner. Not looking good. That would also mean Ryan Neal is a starting safety again. My question is this. If Canales has to open up the playbook and we score 30+ (we now know Bowles is the reason we run so much). Who would be willing to fire Bowles now and see what an unhindered OC can do with this team as an interim coach?

The Glazers have never fired their head coach midseason, even when he's objectively bad. And they've had plenty of reason with coaches who were plenty worse than Bowles is/was.

I wouldn't hold my breath my dude.

I mentioned position coaches because I wondered if Bowles even knew of any he'd want (cuz I have no clue) or if the Bucs have even given him the power to do it.

[Grahamburn]

This team is still fairly healthy. That matters in November.

3-5 with one of the healthier teams in the league. Yikes.

[mdb1958]

Here is another opinion I have - Todd Bowles promotion is/was like a hush mouthed interim promotion. Arians was there one day and gone the next only to position himself into a cozy front office position.

[Grahamburn]

Here is another opinion I have - Todd Bowles promotion is/was like a hush mouthed interim promotion. Arians was there one day and gone the next only to position himself into a cozy front office position.

When the head coach retires on March 30th you can't really conduct any kind of legitimate search.

[Bootz]

This team is still fairly healthy. That matters in November.

You sure about that?