Is Baker truly a better option than Trask?

[Snake]

You know for a guy that repeatedly attacks others for gurgling cock you sure seem to love taking all TB12 inches.

Something like 30,000 men have suited up for NFL games.

I think being the all-time greatest in a sport that is already composed of the 0.000001 in what they do…probably merits a disproportionate amount of praise.

[Doctor]

At least you're aware it's disproportionate.

I just love how for two decades and six rings Brady is a "system QB" in NE, but as soon as he's in Tampa he's the end all be all.

[Snake]

At least you're aware it's disproportionate.

I just love how for two decades and six rings Brady is a "system QB" in NE, but as soon as he's in Tampa he's the end all be all.

Now that we have hindsight and the story has been told, I think we have more clarity about the Tom Brady system quarterback thing.

It is impossible to know if Tom Brady becomes TB12 if any other team drafts him. We know he was infinitely coachable and had innate drive. He bought into the Belichick approach. The obsessive attention to detail, the constant refinement, the method of study, dedication to practicing perfectly. Clearly, there was a symbiotic relationship between his disposition and the program.

He tapped into his potential. He became a freakishly good thrower of the football. I don’t like when people say, “Tom Brady lacked talent.” The mental talent is clear. the dude can throw a fucking football really fast and with surgical precision and with extreme repeatability. I can’t take somebody “without” talent and make them that talented at throwing the football.

At some point during his patriots tenure, he put it all together. The studiousness, the refined throwing ability, the crafted leadership approach. To the point where it was potable. The structure of the program that played into his development, “the system,” he took it with him.

I don’t know when that was. Maybe it was in 2007. Maybe it is when he was carrying those not so great Patriots teams post-Rams Super Bowl.

All that to say, I don’t think it’s fair to call him a system quarterback. I think the system helped him develop into who he became. But it takes two to tango. Leaving the system, going and winning a Super Bowl the next season and elevating a team, suggest that he no longer needed a “system” anymore. He was the system.

And that’s to say very little of the fact that the program became amplified and probably actually worked in large part because Tom himself. Symbiotic relationships work both ways.

[Babeinbucland]

Just hope for football Jesus to get resurrected again and choose Tampa, again.

You know we had a whole ass team outside of Tom, right?

Ya know, this comment made me think about how we expected so much out of Brady last year and we sucked. I think we had the exact same issues last year as this year, they are just more glaring now because we don’t have Brady.

[Terry Tate]

You know we had a whole ass team outside of Tom, right?

Ya know, this comment made me think about how we expected so much out of Brady last year and we sucked. I think we had the exact same issues last year as this year, they are just more glaring now because we don’t have Brady.

That and we also had Leftwich as OC. Say what you want about Canales but he is still an upgrade over Lefty. It was that low of a bar

[Doctor]

At least you're aware it's disproportionate.

I just love how for two decades and six rings Brady is a "system QB" in NE, but as soon as he's in Tampa he's the end all be all.

Now that we have hindsight and the story has been told, I think we have more clarity about the Tom Brady system quarterback thing.

It is impossible to know if Tom Brady becomes TB12 if any other team drafts him. We know he was infinitely coachable and had innate drive. He bought into the Belichick approach. The obsessive attention to detail, the constant refinement, the method of study, dedication to practicing perfectly. Clearly, there was a symbiotic relationship between his disposition and the program.

He tapped into his potential. He became a freakishly good thrower of the football. I don’t like when people say, “Tom Brady lacked talent.” The mental talent is clear. the dude can throw a fucking football really fast and with surgical precision and with extreme repeatability. I can’t take somebody “without” talent and make them that talented at throwing the football.

At some point during his patriots tenure, he put it all together. The studiousness, the refined throwing ability, the crafted leadership approach. To the point where it was potable. The structure of the program that played into his development, “the system,” he took it with him.

I don’t know when that was. Maybe it was in 2007. Maybe it is when he was carrying those not so great Patriots teams post-Rams Super Bowl.

All that to say, I don’t think it’s fair to call him a system quarterback. I think the system helped him develop into who he became. But it takes two to tango. Leaving the system, going and winning a Super Bowl the next season and elevating a team, suggest that he no longer needed a “system” anymore. He was the system.

And that’s to say very little of the fact that the program became amplified and probably actually worked in large part because Tom himself. Symbiotic relationships work both ways.

Nicely put.

[Deja Entendu]

At least you're aware it's disproportionate.

I just love how for two decades and six rings Brady is a "system QB" in NE, but as soon as he's in Tampa he's the end all be all.

Two facts about anyone who said that:

1. They didn’t actually watch or know what they were talking about.
2. They were a hatin’ ass hater.

[Jonny]

Ya know, this comment made me think about how we expected so much out of Brady last year and we sucked. I think we had the exact same issues last year as this year, they are just more glaring now because we don’t have Brady.

That and we also had Leftwich as OC. Say what you want about Canales but he is still an upgrade over Lefty. It was that low of a bar

Canales is an improvement, but not good enough. Too often the receivers are blanketed in red zone and when our offense is pinned back near our goal line.

Canales needs attend a course in Todd Bowles coaching academy. Bowles' defense is all about creating space to the receivers.

[13F11B]

Canales needs attend a course in Todd Bowles coaching academy. Bowles' defense is all about creating space to the receivers.

You forgot that Bowles defense scheme is also about holes for the runners and big 3rd down plays to sustain drives. Bowles aims to keep his offense off the field.

[mdb1958]

Canales needs attend a course in Todd Bowles coaching academy. Bowles' defense is all about creating space to the receivers.

You forgot that Bowles defense scheme is also about holes for the runners and big 3rd down plays to sustain drives. Bowles aims to keep his offense off the field.

Or he had to take a file to the defensive puzzle board to make it close to a fit. No win or loss this year looked like we were in unison.
The same goes for the offense.

Our talk went from three plays deciding a game to unable to play good.

[Doctor]

Play well.

[Babeinbucland]

Lol

[Doctor]

I think Trask still has time.

Here's the thing, everyone looks at QB like it's just any other position and you just need to identify the good ones and get one. But it doesn't really work like that.

Okay sure, sometimes it does. We have seen in recent years if you have the rest of your team built out and the prize QB likes you it can happen. But normally it's more like setting up as many good bets as you can.

Idealist will hate it. They want you to just pluck your answer at QB out of the draft and be done. Situations like RG3 and Cousins taken by Washington in the same draft or the Brees Rivers crossover seasons or having $100M Bledsoe and Brady boils their blood. It's inefficient. It's imperfect. But finding the answer at QB often is.

If Baker doesn't flat out show out the remainder of the season enough to make the staff want to hitch their careers to him instead of a rookie from this class, he likely walks. Which is fine. It was always low risk high reward long shot.

The rookie will likely compete with Trask. With a year in the system not uncommon to give the vet the nod. Maybe he does well enough to Rivers our rookie for awhile. Wouldn't that be something?

[Grahamburn]

If Baker/Trask and "the staff" are an option next year they had better catch fire real fast.

[Doctor]

Pretty sure everyone at OBP knew what the situation was going into the season. While winning the division is the goal and would be great, I doubt there's some ultimatum.

[13F11B]

I think Trask still has time.

Here's the thing, everyone looks at QB like it's just any other position and you just need to identify the good ones and get one. But it doesn't really work like that.

Okay sure, sometimes it does. We have seen in recent years if you have the rest of your team built out and the prize QB likes you it can happen. But normally it's more like setting up as many good bets as you can.

Idealist will hate it. They want you to just pluck your answer at QB out of the draft and be done. Situations like RG3 and Cousins taken by Washington in the same draft or the Brees Rivers crossover seasons or having $100M Bledsoe and Brady boils their blood. It's inefficient. It's imperfect. But finding the answer at QB often is.

If Baker doesn't flat out show out the remainder of the season enough to make the staff want to hitch their careers to him instead of a rookie from this class, he likely walks. Which is fine. It was always low risk high reward long shot.

The rookie will likely compete with Trask. With a year in the system not uncommon to give the vet the nod. Maybe he does well enough to Rivers our rookie for awhile. Wouldn't that be something?

Exactly. The other hard thing about QB is that unlike every other position they either get 100% of the playing time or 0% of the playing time. That is precious little to grow from. A developing linebacker can get a play here or there with the starters and against the starters. The QB has to wait for the other guy to get injured. If they get in when it is a blowout other starters are also not playing.

[Bootz]

Pretty sure everyone at OBP knew what the situation was going into the season. While winning the division is the goal and would be great, I doubt there's some ultimatum.

This is why I'm dubious about the Glazers moving on. $70mil in dead cap space is nothing to sneeze at. Those are real resources that are not available to utilize.

[Grahamburn]

Pretty sure everyone at OBP knew what the situation was going into the season. While winning the division is the goal and would be great, I doubt there's some ultimatum.

Agree to disagree. We’ll know soon enough.

[Grahamburn]

Pretty sure everyone at OBP knew what the situation was going into the season. While winning the division is the goal and would be great, I doubt there's some ultimatum.

This is why I'm dubious about the Glazers moving on. $70mil in dead cap space is nothing to sneeze at. Those are real resources that are not available to utilize.

What’s last years excuse?

[Doctor]

Find out next year.

You acting like 31 teams don't have excuses every year. If I have to hear about KCs tackles one more time...

[Grahamburn]

Find out next year.

I think we can agree that it doesn't make much sense to approach this draft without adding a franchise QB as the ultimate goal.

If Jason Licht and Todd Bowles aren't on the hot seat after this season they certainly will be heading into next season. Are we letting this regime draft another Face of the Franchise quarterback? They've whiffed twice. Will they even be motivated to do so knowing that player may/may not be able to help the 2024 team win?

A Licht/Bowles/Canales combination heading into next year means we're probably going into the 2024 season with Baker Mayfield and Trask again. Not exactly ideal.

I didn't hate the idea after week 4, but god dammit if I don't hate it now.

[Bootz]

This is why I'm dubious about the Glazers moving on. $70mil in dead cap space is nothing to sneeze at. Those are real resources that are not available to utilize.

What’s last years excuse?

Of winning the division? Didn't know you needed one.

[Doctor]

Find out next year.

I think we can agree that it doesn't make much sense to approach this draft without adding a franchise QB as the ultimate goal.

If Jason Licht and Todd Bowles aren't on the hot seat after this season they certainly will be heading into next season. Are we letting this regime draft another Face of the Franchise quarterback? They've whiffed twice. Will they even be motivated to do so knowing that player may/may not be able to help the 2024 team win?

A Licht/Bowles/Canales combination heading into next year means we're probably going into the 2024 season with Baker Mayfield and Trask again. Not exactly ideal.

I didn't hate the idea after week 4, but god dammit if I don't hate it now.

QB is the one exception a make to my BPA rule because they just don't play by the same rules as others.

With that said I'm pretty sure that's the 3 QB plan. Again, idealism aside, you are giving three guys a chance to prove their the guy. If Baker doesn't show out beyond a doubt, it's likely going to result in a rookie QB in this class.

Trask will likely start the season. If he shows out you tag him and see if he does it again. This will make rookie lovers very upset but it's how you find a QB.

[Bootz]

Baker isn't sitting. He played the rest of the game on that same ankle. No way he sits with full weeks practice. He's too tough for that.

That sounds like *gasp* speculation...

More speculation

[mdb1958]

Me? I'd like to see the different passes Trask puts up. I like Mayfield alright but he doesnt seem to have the arm to open this offense up.

[Jonny]

Me? I'd like to see the different passes Trask puts up. I like Mayfield alright but he doesnt seem to have the arm to open this offense up.

I don't think arm has ever been Baker's issue. As a matter of fact, the juice in his throws combined with his ability to throw off platform has been the the most impressive for a Bucs QB in my lifetime as a Bucs fan. Freeman and Winston had throw distance aspect covered, but due to poor/inconsistent mechanics or slow release their throws rarely looked pretty, adaptable and fluid the way Baker's do.

What I have liked from Trask especially after this preseason is his touch on the throws and ability to throw accurately with anticipation. There was a Glennon like slow footedness and slow release that seems to have been coached out of him. I have been among those that referred to him as Kyle Trash and now I feel like he may at least be a decent backup.

[Snake]

Mayfield and Allen were the only two quarterbacks to throw over 61 miles an hour at their combine, if I remember correctly.

[Bootz]

Yea you're going nowhere trying to make a case that Baker doesn't have the arm. He has plenty despite his stature.

[mdb1958]

Yea you're going nowhere trying to make a case that Baker doesn't have the arm. He has plenty despite his stature.

Like I said struggles to put up 300 yard games

[Cheb]

Yea you're going nowhere trying to make a case that Baker doesn't have the arm. He has plenty despite his stature.

Like I said struggles to put up 300 yard games

That's not because he lacks arm strength. It's because he can't consistently stack wins to stay on the field, particularly on third down (where we have struggled all year).

[mdb1958]

What is it - lowest output since 2014 and Josh McCown

[mdb1958]

Like I said struggles to put up 300 yard games

That's not because he lacks arm strength. It's because he can't consistently stack wins to stay on the field, particularly on third down (where we have struggled all year).

Never said anything about strength.

[Grahamburn]

What’s last years excuse?

Of winning the division? Didn't know you needed one.

Hang that banner from the rafters.

[13F11B]

Like I said struggles to put up 300 yard games

That's not because he lacks arm strength. It's because he can't consistently stack wins to stay on the field, particularly on third down (where we have struggled all year).

His deep ball is an issue... not because of lack of strength, but lack of accuracy.

[Selmon Rules]

What’s last years excuse?

Of winning the division? Didn't know you needed one.

The division championship was simply the lipstick we put on the pig that was our season last year.

Yes, we were the best team in the division but we were still one of the ugliest girls at the party last year