acmillis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:29 pm
There was a okay where Ridder scrambled to his right and Devin White completely abandoned his assignment and it ended up in a huge gain… terrible discipline. Would like to see @Nobody break that one down.
Pretty sure I saw Randy Arizarena at the game, yelled his name so my son could get a pic, but he ignored and he was with his wife and daughter so we turned around… still cool though.
Baker, I swear, the first IDK, 10 throws pump faked on ALL of them….WTF.
Pass out of if the backfield.
White completely blew coverage.
What I saw.. Not a great effort from the offense despite Evans balling out. We abandoned what makes this team and we lack a WR3. We have no one after Godwin and Evans , Otton has proven to be a truly good weapon.
There are so many things defensively to love today, Winfield’s pursuit on that play was magnificient.
Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:55 pm
Run game run game run game…this is the difference between us and a good team. Canales and Bowles are not the issue, the talent at run and oline is
I don’t disagree that the talent is subpar in those areas.
But let’s not pretend Bowles has ever had a great rushing team in his years as NFL HC. At this point, it’s more likely for him to have the worst rushing team in the league, than an above average one.
His teams’ rushing ranks:
2015
Attempts: 10
Yards: 10
YPA: 14
2016
Attempts: 13
Yards: 12
YPA: 14
2017
Attempts: 17
Yards: 19
YPA: 20
2018
Attempts: 16
Yards: 26
YPA: 29
2022
Attempts: 32
Yards: 32
YPA: 32
2023 (so far)
YPA: 32
The three-year trend is pretty freaking awful. However, different OCs here, different QBs. It’s looking a lot like personnel too, particularly at offensive line. We have some good receivers, and Wirfs, but you have the ruins of a deep air assault offense, that is now trying to run something totally different, and Baker at the helm. and a bunch of junk around it. hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
weird year.
Last edited by Snake on Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
acmillis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:29 pm
There was a okay where Ridder scrambled to his right and Devin White completely abandoned his assignment and it ended up in a huge gain… terrible discipline. Would like to see @Nobody break that one down.
Pretty sure I saw Randy Arizarena at the game, yelled his name so my son could get a pic, but he ignored and he was with his wife and daughter so we turned around… still cool though.
Baker, I swear, the first IDK, 10 throws pump faked on ALL of them….WTF.
Pretty sure it was 3 Zone Blitz (Winfield, who forced the escape right) w/ White playing Flat/Seam on the side of the field that the pocket escape went to. Winfield had the QB. He was barely (and I mean barely) outleveraged to the sideline by the QB, but Winfield is in a dead sprint to recover, is cutting off the angle, and Ridder is flattening and eyes downfield...the most Ridder picks up is like 2 yards (if he gets that). That situation is treated as Man for White. He has to pick up the RB on the Swing route and plaster them (which is what he did originally). Just a brutal read of the situation, decision, football play by White. Can't happen. Not in year 1. Definitely not in year 5.
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Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:55 pm
Run game run game run game…this is the difference between us and a good team. Canales and Bowles are not the issue, the talent at run and oline is
I don’t disagree that the talent is subpar in those areas.
But let’s not pretend Bowles has ever had a great rushing team in his years as NFL HC. At this point, it’s more likely for him to have the worst rushing team in the league, than an above average one.
His teams’ rushing ranks:
2015
Attempts: 10
Yards: 10
YPA: 14
2016
Attempts: 13
Yards: 12
YPA: 14
2017
Attempts: 17
Yards: 19
YPA: 20
2018
Attempts: 16
Yards: 26
YPA: 29
2022
Attempts: 32
Yards: 32
YPA: 32
2023 (so far)
YPA: 32
The three-year trend is pretty freaking awful. However, different OCs here, different QBs. It’s looking a lot like personnel too, particularly at offensive line. We have some good receivers, and Wirfs, but you have the ruins of a deep air assault offense, that is now trying to run something totally different, and Baker at the helm. and a bunch of junk around it. hard to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
weird year.
Playing devils advocate here but they did expect to have Jenson at center. Imagine if we still had Jenson and we weren't still trying to replace Marpet.
Man, Marpets retirement really hurt. I don't begrudge the man, just acknowledging how much his absence is felt even now. If our line today was Wirfs, Marpet, Jenson, Mauch and Geodeke (sp?), this is a totally different situation.
This Team lacks Heart and an Identity - That's on Bowles.
We know what we are at this point, and there's 4 Players on this Team that no longer need to be a Starter and let's see what some other guys can do to bring a spark:
1. Baker Mayfield - The guy is trying his best, he really is, but it ain't good enough. Time to see what Trask can do.
2. Devin White - See the next guy as an option for him, but he is not a consistent NFL LB. PERIOD.
3. JTS - He's always a step away from the play, just looks lost out there. I'd rather put Devin White in his position so he doesn't have to think as much and just try and run over somebody. This was a bad pick and time to move on.
4. Ryan Neal - He might be the worst Safety we've had in in the last 10 years. I'd let Delaney give it a go before putting this idiot in another game
1. Lets not play any more home/fair-weather fan games. Close Ray Jay for the rest of the year.
2. I was wrong about Baker, he is who he is. Hot then not. Hopefully Hot Baker returns at some point this year. He is holding the ball way to long.
3. I was premature about Canles, I will take my chops. Man those run design are horrible for the backs we have. Not to mention 1st an goal and the designs of the plays were horrible.
4. Bowles is showing slowly why he may not be head coach material. Goes for it on 4th down early, then holds on to 3 time outs to end the half. I don't care how much time is left. force a penalty you never know.
Man this team has been in it because of talented players making up for bad coaching. If this front office is really committed to winning something has to happen at the deadline for a RB. These guys are running in quick sand with basic run plays.
Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:55 pm
Run game run game run game…this is the difference between us and a good team. Canales and Bowles are not the issue, the talent at run and oline is
Please tell me how many times we didn't run a RB draw or a RB option
Terry Tate wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:15 pm
The playcalling was an issue too. We never should have left them enough time to try that last field goal. We had plenty of time to sneak in one run. Or at least a simple high percentage pass and just see if our guy can make a play happen. I also would have looked for at least one jump ball in the back corner of the end zone with Evans
Not only that, but make them waste at least 1 or two time outs, or call their bluff.
acmillis wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:29 pm
There was a okay where Ridder scrambled to his right and Devin White completely abandoned his assignment and it ended up in a huge gain… terrible discipline. Would like to see @Nobody break that one down.
Pretty sure I saw Randy Arizarena at the game, yelled his name so my son could get a pic, but he ignored and he was with his wife and daughter so we turned around… still cool though.
Baker, I swear, the first IDK, 10 throws pump faked on ALL of them….WTF.
Pretty sure it was 3 Zone Blitz (Winfield, who forced the escape right) w/ White playing Flat/Seam on the side of the field that the pocket escape went to. Winfield had the QB. He was barely (and I mean barely) outleveraged to the sideline by the QB, but Winfield is in a dead sprint to recover, is cutting off the angle, and Ridder is flattening and eyes downfield...the most Ridder picks up is like 2 yards (if he gets that). That situation is treated as Man for White. He has to pick up the RB on the Swing route and plaster them (which is what he did originally). Just a brutal read of the situation, decision, football play by White. Can't happen. Not in year 1. Definitely not in year 5.
Thank you. Safe to say (hopefully) he won't be here next season:
Pretty sure it was 3 Zone Blitz (Winfield, who forced the escape right) w/ White playing Flat/Seam on the side of the field that the pocket escape went to. Winfield had the QB. He was barely (and I mean barely) outleveraged to the sideline by the QB, but Winfield is in a dead sprint to recover, is cutting off the angle, and Ridder is flattening and eyes downfield...the most Ridder picks up is like 2 yards (if he gets that). That situation is treated as Man for White. He has to pick up the RB on the Swing route and plaster them (which is what he did originally). Just a brutal read of the situation, decision, football play by White. Can't happen. Not in year 1. Definitely not in year 5.
Thank you. Safe to say (hopefully) he won't be here next season:
73rd? That seems a tad high for this out of position constantly muscle freak.
Also, ATL's kicker is really, really good. Compare his numbers to Justin Tucker, and it's almost identical. Good kid with a good story, sucks he had to continue his success against us, but whatever.
Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:55 pm
Run game run game run game…this is the difference between us and a good team. Canales and Bowles are not the issue, the talent at run and oline is
Please tell me how many times we didn't run a RB draw or a RB option
it doesn't matter what we call. Our oline gets bullied at the line, their dline and lb's are tackling the RB's for losses more than not. Even when we get a push or are neutral, our RB's lack the vision or physicality to get yards after contact. Yes, Canales is still working out his scheme but a decent RB talent can average more than 2 yards a carry to keep the offense moving forward. Lastly, the run game system requires disciplined players up front. False starts, holding, etc. are also killing ANY opportunity that might occassiionally present itself. Coaches can coach players as much as they want but the execution is based on that unit/player and talent level. Licht needs to step in and fix this as the GM.
From time to time I keep seeing posts that suggest "Defense did their part". No they didn't. It was extremely lucky breaks and timely plays by select players that helped us keep the scores closer. But the defense overall is bad. Ridder had 5 incompletions yesterday and passed at will when he was supposed to struggle at that department. Falcons run game gained yards when they needed to as well in the second half.
Pretty sure it was 3 Zone Blitz (Winfield, who forced the escape right) w/ White playing Flat/Seam on the side of the field that the pocket escape went to. Winfield had the QB. He was barely (and I mean barely) outleveraged to the sideline by the QB, but Winfield is in a dead sprint to recover, is cutting off the angle, and Ridder is flattening and eyes downfield...the most Ridder picks up is like 2 yards (if he gets that). That situation is treated as Man for White. He has to pick up the RB on the Swing route and plaster them (which is what he did originally). Just a brutal read of the situation, decision, football play by White. Can't happen. Not in year 1. Definitely not in year 5.
Thank you. Safe to say (hopefully) he won't be here next season:
This team's leadership seems to have an unhealthy commitment to some players like they are some part of a family business or a Mafia. My fear is Bowles says something good about White the same way he has defended him at many press conferences before. Can't believe we drafted him over Josh Allen, DE.
Jonny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:50 am
From time to time I keep seeing posts that suggest "Defense did their part". No they didn't. It was extremely lucky breaks and timely plays by select players that helped us keep the scores closer. But the defense overall is bad. Ridder had 5 incompletions yesterday and passed at will when he was supposed to struggle at that department. Falcons run game gained yards when they needed to as well in the second half.
I disagree and I agree.
The Bucs only allowed 16 points yesterday, which should be enough to get a win in the modern NFL. They also had three takeaways, which is also usually good enough to win in the modern NFL. And they weren't getting much help at all from the offense as the game wore on.
But as you said, they did allow 400 yards to a middling Falcon team, including 150+ on the ground, and if not for those three fumbles the Falcons probably drop 30 or more points on us.
I have my concerns about the defense, but they aren't the reason we have lost three outta our last four imo.
Please tell me how many times we didn't run a RB draw or a RB option
it doesn't matter what we call. Our oline gets bullied at the line, their dline and lb's are tackling the RB's for losses more than not. Even when we get a push or are neutral, our RB's lack the vision or physicality to get yards after contact. Yes, Canales is still working out his scheme but a decent RB talent can average more than 2 yards a carry to keep the offense moving forward. Lastly, the run game system requires disciplined players up front. False starts, holding, etc. are also killing ANY opportunity that might occassiionally present itself. Coaches can coach players as much as they want but the execution is based on that unit/player and talent level. Licht needs to step in and fix this as the GM.
Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:20 am
it doesn't matter what we call. Our oline gets bullied at the line, their dline and lb's are tackling the RB's for losses more than not. Even when we get a push or are neutral, our RB's lack the vision or physicality to get yards after contact. Yes, Canales is still working out his scheme but a decent RB talent can average more than 2 yards a carry to keep the offense moving forward. Lastly, the run game system requires disciplined players up front. False starts, holding, etc. are also killing ANY opportunity that might occassiionally present itself. Coaches can coach players as much as they want but the execution is based on that unit/player and talent level. Licht needs to step in and fix this as the GM.
Yeah because the GM runs the team.
The GM does not run the team. I know that. However, doesn't it also fall on Licht to make the team better or fill holes that are evident?
Last edited by Dcbucsfan on Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please tell me how many times we didn't run a RB draw or a RB option
Licht needs to step in and fix this as the GM.
Does Licht have the power to fire Bowles? Or is that solely a Glazer's decision? If not, then no amount of draft picks or free agents are going to solve this mess. Bowles proved that when the team could barely manage to win with Tom 'freakin' Brady at QB.
Ledyard tends to be very good with his analysis, and I know I've seen more than a few plays where Mayfield doesn't seem to see the open receiver or his throw is off (I can think of a half dozen or so overthrow/underthrows just from the Detroit game).
Where did the jet sweeps go? They ran that some in the first few games, none since the open date. I guess the week off they forgot some of their playbook.
MRM wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:31 pm
Where did the jet sweeps go? They ran that some in the first few games, none since the open date. I guess the week off they forgot some of their playbook.
That would have been nice on 1st and Goal at the end of the game. Or even a screen play to Godwins or Evans like they had been doing early in the season.
Can anyone please provide a overview video of the 3 plays when we were 1st and goal? I am curious to see what the routes were, especially on the last one when Baker held the ball for eternity.
1st & 8 at ATL 8
(1:05 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short middle to C.Godwin (D.Alford).
2nd & 8 at ATL 8
(1:00 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short left to C.Godwin (A.Terrell) [D.Onyemata].
3rd & Goal at ATL 8
(0:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at ATL 18 for -10 yards (D.Onyemata).
So rewatched the 45 min short on Youtube and a few notes.
1) Hated going for it on 4th down. Hated it then, hated it on the re-watch. This is where too much analytics comes into play. I don't care what it says based on the field position. If you want to be aggressive early, that's one thing, but do it after your D has gotten a feel for their offense and you feel good you have them in hand. Not opening drive. Instant loss of momentum, field position, and later points.
2) Are our RB being patient or just slow? I think just slow. White has this awkward agility to him like Luka Doncic, and he can shake his way through traffic in an open field. But when it comes to actually hitting a hole fast, or cutting back fast... he's not fast at all. You have run blitzers coming around the entire line and making the tackle behind the LOS when they should be left catching dust.
3) I really like successfully executing the tush push. As we've seen it's not as easy as it looks and at the same time really powerful to have in your arsenal.
4) These Penalties are just drive killers. Like 4 on one drive? The hope is that this will go away with more time together.
5) Thompkins fumbles sets them up at the 30. Ridder returns the favor fumbling at the 1. I wish we had tush pushed on that 3rd and 1, it was a long 1 but it would've been a good conversion. We punt to their 40, bad punt. We give up about 40 yards and a FG. I say that's a win for the D. Shaq is savvy but there is very much a step missing.
6) D white needs to trust Winfield on that play. This is why you need to forget the last play when Ridder ran around and stick to your assignment on this play. He didn't. In the run later on he was either lazy or didn't react soon enough and it went further than it should've. The defense is still putting him in positions to be the play maker he can be but he has not been taking advantage of it. Just the opposite. I don't know if he's choosing to be careful or he's scared, either way it's showing in his play.
7) Honestly, you get first and goal from the 8 yard line you need to put it in. I get everything else from the game being a slug fest. I get they are a much tougher team and defense than many give them credit for. I get all that. But that was the pass 59 minutes. Here, now, you doing a plain old execution, 11 v 11, you v them. This wasn't the 'reason' why we lost, but this was a chance for Canales and Baker to really step up and they did not.
Dcbucsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:20 am
Licht needs to step in and fix this as the GM.
Does Licht have the power to fire Bowles? Or is that solely a Glazer's decision? If not, then no amount of draft picks or free agents are going to solve this mess. Bowles proved that when the team could barely manage to win with Tom 'freakin' Brady at QB.
I’ve made my point that I don’t think Bowles should be our HC, but I don’t think Licht should be the one to make that call. He has too much power if he can fire/hire coaches at will and it already looks kind of bad that he’s had so many HCs work with him anyways. If he works with Bowles’ replacement that would be 5 HCs in 11 years, and I think Licht has to take responsibility for some of this at some point instead of constantly cycling coaches under him.
