Your previous indictments were because he played to lose and wasn't aggressive.
I said I would like someone who plays to win vs playing not to lose. Going for it on 4th and 6 in the first quarter is not playing to win. it is plain stupid.
You think it's stupid, but how about this. We have started every game slow. We start with 3 first downs. We are now at the 41 of Atlanta.
We can try:
A) a 58 yard field goal. Our kicker MIGHT have the leg, but then the Falcons would have it at midfield if he missed.
B) kick it deep. Only nets 21.
C) kick it short. Hope it doesn't net just 21.
D) go for it. Kick start your team on offense, or give up only 21 yards.
I agree that 4th in 6 wasn't ideal, but it wasn't idiotic as you make it out to be
Phantom wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:54 pm
I miss Malcolm Glazer. He know how to hire the right coach.. Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden.(we traded for him that won us a Super Bowl)
When we go to NOs next, they should go to a voodoo priestess and get some juice that let's the dead answer any 3 questions. Who is the top 3 HC candidates we should be hiring? If one is defense and two are offense, there you go, our HC, OC, and DC
What does firing Todd Bowles accomplish in fixing any/all offensive issues?
This team needs players. You need money and/or high picks to get good players.
There is no coach that could turn this roster into a true contender.
Yeah the team needs players on offense. Bowles made the decision to route spending away from offense to his defense this offseason. We had a historically bad run game last season and Bowles’ strategy was to trade a solid OL for nothing so he could pay his second corner. We could have tried upgrading the run game this offseason even with the cap woes. We also prioritized the defense in the draft, though I am satisfied with Kancey.
All we did was fire the OC and pick up cheap spare parts and now we are surpised Pikachu looking at this team attempting to play offense. At the end of the day, I don’t trust the offense to get what it needs while Bowles is HC because he’s going to put the defense first. Not to mention the man has 7 seasons of being a bad NFL HC now and didn’t earn our HC job the proper way. He doesn’t deserve the patience.
So you want to keep a guard from a run game that was just as bad as the one we’re seeing over a homegrown corner that has played well all year and since inception?
No. Bill is a better coach, but he is to close to the end to be worth the hire. Not Pete Carol either.
Bill is failing because he got to play GM, and can't evaluate college talent. He also rather get rid of a great play a year too early instead of a year too late. See Brady and the Garoppolo situation as an example. If he was purely a coach, I think he could bring a team back to the Super Bowl
He is failing partly because he cannot cheat anymore
Yeah the team needs players on offense. Bowles made the decision to route spending away from offense to his defense this offseason. We had a historically bad run game last season and Bowles’ strategy was to trade a solid OL for nothing so he could pay his second corner. We could have tried upgrading the run game this offseason even with the cap woes. We also prioritized the defense in the draft, though I am satisfied with Kancey.
All we did was fire the OC and pick up cheap spare parts and now we are surpised Pikachu looking at this team attempting to play offense. At the end of the day, I don’t trust the offense to get what it needs while Bowles is HC because he’s going to put the defense first. Not to mention the man has 7 seasons of being a bad NFL HC now and didn’t earn our HC job the proper way. He doesn’t deserve the patience.
So you want to keep a guard from a run game that was just as bad as the one we’re seeing over a homegrown corner that has played well all year and since inception?
Man, just looking for reasons.
So your idea to improve the run game is just to get rid of a solid player for nothing and then just invest cheap in it? Yes Shaq was here last year too, but he still gave us some good play and we aren’t in a position to be getting rid of some of the little talent and experience the line had to offer. I’m not inherently against letting Mason go either, IF the goal was to soft rebuild and set ourselves up for the future then it’s actually a good move. Problem is, the move was made in a dumb attempt of being competitive this season. Because our DC masquerading as a HC arrogantly believes he and his defense will win us games.
Dean being homegrown is irrelevant and only plays into emotional attachment for fans, I don’t care if a player was drafted here or not. Tom Brady was drafted by the Patriots 20 years before he came here and I have way more love for him than 90% of the “homegrown” talent we’ve put on the field. Jamel Dean is an above average corner that got paid when we were already paying an above average corner. Neither player is particularly great and it’s poor business to pay both of them. If the team is serious about improving the offense and competing next season, then one HAS to go because we can’t seriously justify paying both guys when neither is elite and will never sniff a Pro Bowl in their careers. The money needs to go in the rapidly dying offense. If the team isn’t serious about competing next season then honestly both need to go because why are you paying any corner big bucks on a rebuilding squad.
So you want to keep a guard from a run game that was just as bad as the one we’re seeing over a homegrown corner that has played well all year and since inception?
Man, just looking for reasons.
So your idea to improve the run game is just to get rid of a solid player for nothing and then just invest cheap in it? Yes Shaq was here last year too, but he still gave us some good play and we aren’t in a position to be getting rid of some of the little talent and experience the line had to offer. I’m not inherently against letting Mason go either, IF the goal was to soft rebuild and set ourselves up for the future then it’s actually a good move. Problem is, the move was made in a dumb attempt of being competitive this season. Because our DC masquerading as a HC arrogantly believes he and his defense will win us games.
Dean being homegrown is irrelevant and only plays into emotional attachment for fans, I don’t care if a player was drafted here or not. Tom Brady was drafted by the Patriots 20 years before he came here and I have way more love for him than 90% of the “homegrown” talent we’ve put on the field. Jamel Dean is an above average corner that got paid when we were already paying an above average corner. Neither player is particularly great and it’s poor business to pay both of them. If the team is serious about improving the offense and competing next season, then one HAS to go because we can’t seriously justify paying both guys when neither is elite and will never sniff a Pro Bowl in their careers. The money needs to go in the rapidly dying offense. If the team isn’t serious about competing next season then honestly both need to go because why are you paying any corner big bucks on a rebuilding squad.
Since there are no true shut down corners anymore because of league rules, you complaint is that our corners won't be one of top 3 or 4 in a popularity contest (Pro Bowl)? This is your justification in a league that is pass happy to have maybe two above average corner is worse than maybe a jag as our second corner to keep a maybe slightly better guard at pass pro. He sure wasn't good at run blocking
_MB_ wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:50 pm
Just saw that if the playoffs started this week we'd be the 7th seed.
If the season ends with the Buccaneers as the 7th seed, are we still having this conversation?
I gave us zero chance for a wild card slot going into the season and going with a "division or bust" approach.
I don't think it's wise to fire a coach that keeps going to the playoffs.
Food for thought.
You already know we will still be having that conversation. There are people here that believe going to the playoffs has no point unless you can win the Super Bowl. If you're one and done, they you might as well tank by selling off your best players, firing the coaching staff, and getting a top QB prospect
_MB_ wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:50 pm
Just saw that if the playoffs started this week we'd be the 7th seed.
If the season ends with the Buccaneers as the 7th seed, are we still having this conversation?
I gave us zero chance for a wild card slot going into the season and going with a "division or bust" approach.
I don't think it's wise to fire a coach that keeps going to the playoffs.
Food for thought.
You already know we will still be having that conversation. There are people here that believe going to the playoffs has no point unless you can win the Super Bowl. If you're one and done, they you might as well tank by selling off your best players, firing the coaching staff, and getting a top QB prospect
_MB_ wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:50 pm
Just saw that if the playoffs started this week we'd be the 7th seed.
If the season ends with the Buccaneers as the 7th seed, are we still having this conversation?
I gave us zero chance for a wild card slot going into the season and going with a "division or bust" approach.
I don't think it's wise to fire a coach that keeps going to the playoffs.
Food for thought.
You already know we will still be having that conversation. There are people here that believe going to the playoffs has no point unless you can win the Super Bowl. If you're one and done, they you might as well tank by selling off your best players, firing the coaching staff, and getting a top QB prospect
I legitimately do not see winning the worst division in football with a trash QB as an accomplishment. Especially if we go 0-1 in playoffs.
Backside wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:10 pm
Aim higher than "maybe being at the top of the absolute worst division in the NFL".
Wanting to be good enough to actually be a top team instead of just pretending is not a bad thing.
Name one of the top teams in the NFL who tanked to get there. I’ll wait.
Who said anything about tanking? This thread is about Todd Bowles as a head coach.
And every top team I can think of except the Chiefs got at least one massive contributor after a crappy season where they got a top pick. So I don’t really get your point.
Name one of the top teams in the NFL who tanked to get there. I’ll wait.
Who said anything about tanking? This thread is about Todd Bowles as a head coach.
And every top team I can think of except the Chiefs got at least one massive contributor after a crappy season where they got a top pick. So I don’t really get your point.
Your post didn’t specifically quote anyone, but it followed @_MB_ and @kaimaru regarding if the playoffs started today we’d be in them followed by the comment that many posters feel like it’s a wasted season if you aren’t competing for a Super Bowl.
You said to aim higher, which is fine. I assumed that meant aim higher in terms of philosophy in that you don’t build your team just to make the playoffs and save your job. Re: Todd Bowles.
In other words, don’t bother trying to compete in a “lost season” with Baker Mayfield at QB and $75M in dead cap. You can correct me if I’m wrong.
Winning the division and making it to the playoffs are very important for the near future of this franchise. A winning culture simply doesn't begin because you have a bunch of young talented upstarts. You need a core that knows what goes into winning.
Luke Goedeke may not have improved such an extent over the off season if he didn't feel like his poor play may have contributed to close losses and he didn't have a Tristan Wirfs to lean on. When teams are losing, it all looks like an unorganized mess the way defenses looked under Lovie, Mike Smith or the whole team looked in 2011. It's a deep hole to climb out of when a roster gets used to that type of a mess.
As much as I have been disappointed with Bowles and his stubbornness to stick with people like Ryan Neal or Keyshaun Vaughn, the guy is clearly respected by all of his players and they take the field with belief that we can win any game. It may simply be because we have many holdovers (players and coaches) from SB winning team, but it is very good that Bowles and Licht and this organization has lofty goals for this year.
If they win the division and get instantly ousted from the playoffs, I will still be happy about Bowles as our head coach and look forward to his year 3. Our offense is looking more and more like an uncontrollable mess with each passing week. I am optimistic they will find solutions.
You have a head coach who won you a super bowl as your defensive coordinator followed by a division title in the same job before getting the promotion.
He then wins a division title as head coach and then possibly wins you another division title or wc playoff berth, but this time without the hall of fame quarterback and a $75 million dollar hole in the roster.
Backside wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:25 am
The revisionist history on last years team already…
They were terrible, they were torture to watch. They happened to barely be better than three league bottom dwellers. Hooray.
And the only thing they'll remember about it was that it was Brady's last season and a division title.
You don't like championships?
You think the Detroit Lions are not busting their butts to try and win a division championship? The Buccaneers won that division more recently than the lions did.
You think if they win their division and get bounced in the playoffs the lions are gonna fire the coach?
I'd fire the GM that fires the coach that won the division two years in a row.
Backside wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:25 am
The revisionist history on last years team already…
They were terrible, they were torture to watch. They happened to barely be better than three league bottom dwellers. Hooray.
And yet still much more enjoyable than the 18+ year playoff drought prior to the 2020 season. Do you prefer to return to those years being the league bottom dweller where this franchise had literally dozens of early draft picks amount to nothing?
This franchises' turnarounds coincide with culture change, which Todd Bowles and this front office were a part of most recently. Maybe don't blow it all up just because they went for it for 3 years with Tom Brady and now have salary cap issues.
I don’t consider getting rid of a coach who I really see nothing special from as a HC ‘blowing it up’ I guess. I don’t even believe tanking is a thing in the NFL. But I distance myself fully from making last years experience the goal going forward.
If Todd Bowles ever starts winning playoff games or showing me something other than what I’ve seen the last two years then I’ll capitulate in full and you can take my account.
Backside wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:25 am
I don’t consider getting rid of a coach who I really see nothing special from as a HC ‘blowing it up’ I guess. I don’t even believe tanking is a thing in the NFL. But I distance myself fully from making last years experience the goal going forward.
If Todd Bowles ever starts winning playoff games or showing me something other than what I’ve seen the last two years then I’ll capitulate in full and you can take my account.
If this year's team has the same accomplishments as last year's team, this franchise is headed in the right direction.
I love spoons that are crying "If he was actually trying to build a winner, fine, but he's just trying to win to save his job!" It's just so moronically contradictory.
I don't think Todd Bowles is the problem. I've liked his changes in aggressiveness this year. I feel like he has embraced analytics at least somewhat. There's no need to live and die by it, but embrace and understand what the numbers tell you to do. Go with your gut when you feel it's necessary.
The defense is still effective. A defensive minded head coach can still win. I think Canales was/is a good hire and he needs some time and an influx of skill players on offense to get his scheme going in a better direction.
Backside wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:25 am
I don’t consider getting rid of a coach who I really see nothing special from as a HC ‘blowing it up’ I guess. I don’t even believe tanking is a thing in the NFL. But I distance myself fully from making last years experience the goal going forward.
If Todd Bowles ever starts winning playoff games or showing me something other than what I’ve seen the last two years then I’ll capitulate in full and you can take my account.
If this year's team has the same accomplishments as last year's team, this franchise is headed in the right direction.
That's fair, as a division win and playoff appearance would definitely quality as smashing expectations this year, but we can all acknowledge that winning the NFC South is much different from winning any other division at least, right? And that last year's playoff game was no fun?
I have doubts about that division title though, even with it being as bad as it is. And I never said we should tank or blow it up. I'm not a huge Todd Bowles guy and will be utterly baffled if he is ever the HC of a team in the Conference championship, and very surprised if he even makes the divisional round. He's a great DC, no doubt.
And if we don't make the playoffs, and are resetting a bit next year with a new QB then I would much rather just move on from the coach who I don't think is the guy long term. I like Licht mostly, and the roster has lots of my favorite Buccaneers ever.
Grahamburn wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:03 am
I don't think Todd Bowles is the problem. I've liked his changes in aggressiveness this year. I feel like he has embraced analytics at least somewhat. There's no need to live and die by it, but embrace and understand what the numbers tell you to do. Go with your gut when you feel it's necessary.
The defense is still effective. A defensive minded head coach can still win. I think Canales was/is a good hire and he needs some time and an influx of skill players on offense to get his scheme going in a better direction.
Things change quickly. I'm done with him after that game.
"Tom Brady got divorced (and still managed to trow for 4,694 with one of the worst offensive coordinators in football). Ali Marpet retired. Ryan Jensen got injured. Bowles didn't have time to draft "his guys."
So what?
This is normal life in the NFL. The world keeps spinning and good coaches are expected to win with good rosters. Bad coaches blunder it."
The dude talks like these excuses span 5 years or something. All that was in just his first year. He's really mad he didn't, what, fire Lefty and turn everything around during a bye week or something?
We're halfway thru THIS regime's first year. Let's breathe a little.
Bowles doesn’t deserve patience because he was never the right man for the job. He didn’t earn the job on merit. He didn’t beat out candidates and show he was the best man for the job. He got the gig out of nepotism of the former HC.
It’s not like he’s inexperienced and learning, he’s been an NFL HC for 7 seasons and has a 37-56 record. He’s the only coach that couldn’t manage a winning product with Tom Brady. He’s had an impressive career as a DC but he’s proven time and time again he’s not cut out to lead a football team.
There’s no reason to expect better results in a 3rd year with Bowles, the roster is going to continue bleeding talent as we have more FAs than we can afford to pay and his defense is probably losing its heart in Lavonte and there’s a chance the heart of the offense is gone in Mike too. It’s time to embrace a new era of Buccaneers football.
"Tom Brady got divorced (and still managed to trow for 4,694 with one of the worst offensive coordinators in football). Ali Marpet retired. Ryan Jensen got injured. Bowles didn't have time to draft "his guys."
So what?
This is normal life in the NFL. The world keeps spinning and good coaches are expected to win with good rosters. Bad coaches blunder it."
The dude talks like these excuses span 5 years or something. All that was in just his first year. He's really mad he didn't, what, fire Lefty and turn everything around during a bye week or something?
We're halfway thru THIS regime's first year. Let's breathe a little.
We’ve lost 4 games in a row. Two of which were very winnable if not for poor clock management and defense at the end. The defense has been the worst in the NFL through those 4 weeks.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt in the off-season, but he doesn’t have the excuses this year. He pumped all our resources into his defense and it’s atrocious.
