Rapid Reactions: Bucs Lose to the Lions 20-6

[Dcbucsfan]

Any one know when is Tucker back? Wouldn’t hurt to see him as the lead back over healthy

[13F11B]

Any one know when is Tucker back? Wouldn’t hurt to see him as the lead back over healthy

I was not aware he was on the injury list. I just don't think he played.

[Pirate Life]

Didn't get to see much of the game other than what was on RedZone. Bad as our run game was, it was better than the Lions in the stat sheet. Felt like Baker and some of the other offensive players were pressing too hard. Like we were down more than we were. Play design on offense seemed good (we had a lot of receivers open from what I saw), but had some drops, overthrows and a couple of bad calls/no calls that would have helped. Canales really needs to work on play sequencing though. Sometimes seems like he's just throwing a dart at his playbook to pick the next play.

And Bowles needs to stop wanting us to focus on the run so much when it's clearly not working. Use the pass to open up the run.

Do like that Hutchinson was essentially neutralized by our line. Now if they could just open up a running lane....

[Jonny]

Lions are definitely a damn good team. But the Bucs beat themselves as much as Lions beat the Bucs. Even with all injuries, outside of a couple of drops, the Lions offense was clicking non stop. The Bucs offense seemed very random and poorly executed.

[Sdbucs]

I’ll literally say this every week because it’s the truth - we are a 9 win team under Baker in our trash division.

We will win games against our garbage division opponents and lose against real contenders.

We will make the playoffs and lose immediately.

That’s the reality of this season under the garbage QB that is Baker Mayfield

And because we win those 9 games we will miss out on generational talent at QB

I might not be as much of a Baker hater as you but you forgot the last part of that scenario:

After winning eight or nine games the front office will sign Baker to a large, multi-year deal.

Ugh I wasn’t even thinking of that scenario but you’re right

All this season is doing is kicking the can of mediocrity down the road under the veil of making the playoffs in the worst division in football. It’s so disheartening

[Cheb]

Found this little gem on NFL.com:

"Buccaneers rookie DT Calijah Kancey generated six pressures on 28 pass rushes in his second career game, tied for the most pressures by a rookie defensive tackle in a game over the past five seasons. Kancey averaged a 2.37-second time to pressure against the Lions."

Not bad, kid. Not bad.

[CantonJester]

I got flashbacks of all those games I went to at the Sombrero back in college in the early 90s (before the mid to late 90s drafts), when the NFC Central teams’ fans would come down I-75 or out of TPA down the road and about balance out the number against Bucs’ fans. Maybe we always had more, but it seldom felt like it.

I think the creamsicle uniforms triggered some form of PTSD come to think of it.

[13F11B]

Found this little gem on NFL.com:

"Buccaneers rookie DT Calijah Kancey generated six pressures on 28 pass rushes in his second career game, tied for the most pressures by a rookie defensive tackle in a game over the past five seasons. Kancey averaged a 2.37-second time to pressure against the Lions."

Not bad, kid. Not bad.

And despite this due to the overuse of blitzes the QB was able to find a wide open receiver.

[These Are The Days]

Found this little gem on NFL.com:

"Buccaneers rookie DT Calijah Kancey generated six pressures on 28 pass rushes in his second career game, tied for the most pressures by a rookie defensive tackle in a game over the past five seasons. Kancey averaged a 2.37-second time to pressure against the Lions."

Not bad, kid. Not bad.

And despite this due to the overuse of blitzes the QB was able to find a wide open receiver.

We need to decide who we are offensively and stop trying to be something we are not defensively. If you're sending the house there's gonna be a soft spot in the coverage and the Bucs were exploited all game long

[Noles1724]

never a good game when the punter is the star of the day

[Buc2]

So glad I spent the day with family and friends at the annual Virginia Wine & Garlic Festival. We were going to go Saturday, but the weather sucked so we went yesterday instead.

[Doctor]

I get dialing up more pressure to try to force a turn over. If we were going to win it was on the defense making a play, ala the Jets. The defense ran hot all game, but kept sputtering on third downs. For the most part we kept everything in front of us which was just fine with the Lions as they felt no need to press all that hard either.

There are more ways to pressure a QB than just with the rush. One of them is pressure to keep up or pressure to make a play, something Baker felt all game and Goff didn't. Complimentary football matters.

[13F11B]

So glad I spent the day with family and friends at the annual Virginia Wine & Garlic Festival. We were going to go Saturday, but the weather sucked so we went yesterday instead.

Good choice. Good choice.

[CannonFire]

To me, the overall problem is the coaching staff not realizing how teams (more so the good ones), prepare for us. I actually can go back to Week 2 (the Eagles/Vikings game), of the season to point this out, and show the coloration from yesterday.

In Week 1 vs the Vikings, the constantly were stacking the box against us to stop the run. It was pointed out mostly while watching the Vikings/Eagles game the following week when the Eagles were running all over them. Why? Because Minnesota was scare of the pass and figured they'd sell out to stop it. Hence, the Eagles ran for over 250 yards. The Vikings had a 3-man front with linebackers dropped into coverage all night long. That's something they didn't do against us. Why? Because they want us to put the ball in Mayfield's hand.

Fast forward to yesterday. In a game where we were never really out of it, Mayfield threw the ball 37 times (dropped back to pass 39 if you count his 2 rush attempts), and we ran the ball 16 times (not counting Thompkins' run which is mainly a gimmick play). Why? Going into the game, the coaches probably looked at the Lions being a top 5 defense against the run and a middle of the road team against the pass. In a normal circumstance, yeah it makes sense to be a little more pass happy... but we have Baker Mayfield, and that's not a normal circumstance. Why? (prior paragraph). Teams don't respect Mayfield and hence, our passing game, so they won't play us like they would against other teams.

Yesterday, the first drive, White had 2 carries for 3 yards, we punted after 5 plays. Following possession, Baker throws a pick on first down. Drive 3, White starts off with a 6 yard run, the Bucs proceed to throw the ball on the next 4 plays before punting. After 3 possessions, we're down only 3-0. The next drive was Vaughn's, who did have a 4 yard rush, and then on second down the OLine forgot to block. In either case, on the 5th series, back with White in the game and the Bucs STILL trailing only 3-0, White rushes for 8 yards on first down. After a false start, we ran 6 pass plays and 2 rushes (one of which was for 7 yards). On that drive, 3 runs for 15 yards. The next drive, 4 plays, 1 run for 5 yards, At this point in the game, we're down 10-3 and have 9 carries for 28 yards (including a rush for -6, as mentioned above), so 8 carries which yielded 34 yards. That's pretty solid. Why did we run the ball only 4 more times the rest of the game?

Someone mentioned it earlier, and I agree. This team has talent, enough to win 8 to 10 games, and that's because of our schedule. If we had a real QB, probably be a legit contender. We play the AFC South, the NFC South, and our division for 14 of our 17 games. That's 1 game against a good team (Detroit), 4 against "meh" teams in Jacksonville, Green Bay, and New Orleans (x2), and 9 against bad teams. We lost the good one and won 3 against that group. We still have 10 more left. We should sweep ATL and Carolina and should win at least the Houston and Indy games. At worst, that puts us at 9 wins. It could lead to the re-signing of Mayfield, because we'll be picking in the late teens early 20's, like last year and out of the running for a QB in the upcoming draft... unless we make a big trade.

This is the worst possible scenario that I stated would happen at the beginning of the year when I said that regardless of the pre-season and whatnot, Kyle Trask should've been named the starter. There's NO upside to having Mayfield play 17 games, us winning 9 or 10 and the making the playoffs and getting bumped in the first round. This is like the 2010 Josh Freeman season. We're pretenders, not contenders, with Mayfield. This team doing well with Mayfield only keeps us in purgatory it doesn't improve the team.

[Doctor]

This reminds me of the scene in Willy Wonka where the girls sings "I want it now".

Can we take a deep breath? It's literally the fifth game Canales has ever called. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 that's it. And even then, there is a lot to see and like.



We had openings. We had plenty of plays where the play went the way the play was supposed to go. As far as scheming and play calling that's is as much as you can ask for.
And yes. We are sticking with the run game. The OL is learning the creases and angles, the RBs are still not following them right. I know everyone (me too) just wants to plug new players in and insta-fix things, but there is this other way which is called development. There is no way through this problem but through it. When/if they start getting into the flow, the run game will come together, and open up the offense that much more.

That is what the coaches see. Fans are stuck thinking "this is it and it's all it ever will be" while coaches constantly see what can be. What can be with more reps, more practice, more chemistry. Fans think Baker will forever miss Palmer on that throw while Canales, Baker, and Palmer believe they can work on that route more in practice so that next time they don't miss it.

And I haven't seen anything from Baker since he's gotten here or the rest of these guys to tell me they can't do just that. No one is letting up. Everyone is fully bought in. Everyone is the right kind of mad and the right kind of focus. Everyone believes they can very much be the winners they think they are even if their fans don't think it.

[bucarican]

Every year we need to assume we are going to lose coming off of a Bye. I think I read we are like 1-5 in the last 6 games we have played off of a bye.

The positive:
1. we just missed 3 big plays that could have changed the momentum of the game. Evans deep ball, the Evans PI (which was a stupid call on 3-2 or 3-1), and the pass to Palmer deep.

2. Baker has guts.

3. we have a 3 legged punter, damn he is a stud.

The negative:

1. Canles is good, but his youth is showing a little. On both the 3-1 and the 3-2 he should have played to move the sticks. He also needs to see what was working (passes to Godwin and Evans) and stick to it. The Lions we killing us on the underneath and out routes, and so were we when we threw them.

2. We go out coached. Point blank period. Todd was lost this game.

3. Rashad White and his toe tap need to go to Broadway. He is not shady McCoy, he needs to just hit the whole and go.

With that said, we still are in control of the South, with a chance to extend that lead again this weekend.

[acmillis]

Yeah...was pissed seeing that replay and thought..."Why didn't Baker just throw a rainbow instead of a dart?!?!?"

[bucarican]

I got flashbacks of all those games I went to at the Sombrero back in college in the early 90s (before the mid to late 90s drafts), when the NFC Central teams’ fans would come down I-75 or out of TPA down the road and about balance out the number against Bucs’ fans. Maybe we always had more, but it seldom felt like it.

I think the creamsicle uniforms triggered some form of PTSD come to think of it.

All that was needed was the damn metal bleachers that numbed the boozum.

[Bootz]

This reminds me of the scene in Willy Wonka where the girls sings "I want it now".

Can we take a deep breath? It's literally the fifth game Canales has ever called. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 that's it. And even then, there is a lot to see and like.



We had openings. We had plenty of plays where the play went the way the play was supposed to go. As far as scheming and play calling that's is as much as you can ask for.
And yes. We are sticking with the run game. The OL is learning the creases and angles, the RBs are still not following them right. I know everyone (me too) just wants to plug new players in and insta-fix things, but there is this other way which is called development. There is no way through this problem but through it. When/if they start getting into the flow, the run game will come together, and open up the offense that much more.

That is what the coaches see. Fans are stuck thinking "this is it and it's all it ever will be" while coaches constantly see what can be. What can be with more reps, more practice, more chemistry. Fans think Baker will forever miss Palmer on that throw while Canales, Baker, and Palmer believe they can work on that route more in practice so that next time they don't miss it.

And I haven't seen anything from Baker since he's gotten here or the rest of these guys to tell me they can't do just that. No one is letting up. Everyone is fully bought in. Everyone is the right kind of mad and the right kind of focus. Everyone believes they can very much be the winners they think they are even if their fans don't think it.

This goes back to what I saw in the Saints game on the Thompkins TD. He's gun shy for whatever reason. Let it rip. He's overly confident in his ability to work off-script but is not confident at all that he can make the simple play.

As far as Canales is concerned people set themselves up for disappointment here.

viewtopic.php?t=1354&hilit=church

You crown someone like this BEFORE they call a play in a game that counts and they don't deliver, you damn right they want it now.

Its gonna take time..We may never get there. But it likely won't happen in 2023.

[CannonFire]

Fans think Baker will forever miss Palmer on that throw while Canales, Baker, and Palmer believe they can work on that route more in practice so that next time they don't miss it.

Specifically to this point.... it's because Mayfield has been doing it for 5+ years, not 5+ weeks... there's a difference.

[GreatTimes]

The OPI against Evans was a correct call. If Baker had thrown a back shoulder pass, it would have been a TD.

[kaimaru]

Mayfield had 3 overthrown passes that should have been TD's. One to Evans and two to Trey.

Palmer pulled up two strides before the ball reached him.

And Evans had to reach out maybe a foot for that other so called overthrow. Evans even dropped a pass between the numbers on a third down while we were driving

[kaimaru]

I disagree. Blocking is good enough. We don’t have RB’s that can drive and create something. Montgomery goes out and their #2 is out. The third RB comes in and just keeps getting 3-4 years per carry. 3rd and manageable for majority of the game. We need to stop blaming the line and the excuse that this run game needs time. Our RB stable is trash.

The thing is they keep their good Oline to run JAG RB behind and keep getting consistent yardage. Doesn't matter who we put behind ours, results are the same.

Offense sucked in all phases and defense got gassed and couldn't get off the field

No they didn't. Montgomery only had 2.3 yards per carry and his replacement Craig Reynolds plummeted to 1.5 yards per carry. Jahmyr Gibbs was averaging 6.0 yards per carry and Montgomery averaged 3.5 yards per carry against the Chiefs. The quality of back 100% has to do with the run game

[kaimaru]

so 8 carries which yielded 34 yards. That's pretty solid. Why did we run the ball only 4 more times the rest of the game?

Under 4.3 yards per carry is solid to you?

[kaimaru]

Fans think Baker will forever miss Palmer on that throw while Canales, Baker, and Palmer believe they can work on that route more in practice so that next time they don't miss it.

Specifically to this point.... it's because Mayfield has been doing it for 5+ years, not 5+ weeks... there's a difference.

Do you have any proof of this? For his career he is averaging 3.4 passes of 20+ per game. Aaron Rodgers average 3.4 passes of 20+ per game

[Phantom]

Bucs has no running game. We need to draft a good running back next year. White ain’t it.. I’m not sure about Tucker. Did he play at all?

[kaimaru]

Bucs has no running game. We need to draft a good running back next year. White ain’t it.. I’m not sure about Tucker. Did he play at all?

He was not on the inactives list, so I am not sure why they kept running Vaughn

[Phantom]

Bucs has no running game. We need to draft a good running back next year. White ain’t it.. I’m not sure about Tucker. Did he play at all?

He was not on the inactives list, so I am not sure why they kept running Vaughn

Interesting..,

[Four Verticals]

Bucs has no running game. We need to draft a good running back next year. White ain’t it.. I’m not sure about Tucker. Did he play at all?

The issue with no running game is an OL issue at this point. The RBs are getting the ball and getting hit at nearly the same time.

[Miller4Prez64]

Sean Tucker is only averaging 1.5 ypc so far so it seems the coaches demoted him as RB2 and gave the job back to Vaughn. Not a fan of that when Tucker only has 15 carries worth of sample size where as Vaughn has 4 years of being trash as a sample size. Not to mention it feels like Vaughn got rewarded after throwing a temper tantrum after preseason for not being given the RB2 job.

[Onthebrink]

Sean Tucker is only averaging 1.5 ypc so far so it seems the coaches demoted him as RB2 and gave the job back to Vaughn. Not a fan of that when Tucker only has 15 carries worth of sample size where as Vaughn has 4 years of being trash as a sample size. Not to mention it feels like Vaughn got rewarded after throwing a temper tantrum after preseason for not being given the RB2 job.

In 2020 Vaughn averaged 4.2, in 2021 he averaged 5. Yeah trash numbers.

[CannonFire]

so 8 carries which yielded 34 yards. That's pretty solid. Why did we run the ball only 4 more times the rest of the game?

Under 4.3 yards per carry is solid to you?

Considering that there are only 11 teams in the league this year averaging 4.3 ypc or better from their RB's? Yes, I'm going to say that 4.25 is pretty solid.

[CannonFire]

Specifically to this point.... it's because Mayfield has been doing it for 5+ years, not 5+ weeks... there's a difference.

Do you have any proof of this? For his career he is averaging 3.4 passes of 20+ per game. Aaron Rodgers average 3.4 passes of 20+ per game

Proof? Yes. He's on his 4th team in 15 months. No one wants him because no one has faith in his ability to hit receivers on a regular basis, regardless of how far the pass is. He's a bad QB.

[Bootz]

[CannonFire]

Bucs has no running game. We need to draft a good running back next year. White ain’t it.. I’m not sure about Tucker. Did he play at all?

The issue with no running game is an OL issue at this point. The RBs are getting the ball and getting hit at nearly the same time.

It's also a QB problem. No one respects the pass because Mayfield isn't a threat to beat you with his arm. I'm not saying the OLine is great nor am I saying that White is great. I'm simply saying that the biggest issue is that Mayfield doesn't force teams to focus on stopping the pass, he does half their job for them.