Week 6 Discussion

[wesmon]

The ability to identify and draft a top QB has not been a formula for winning a Superbowl in this league.

15 of the last 20 super bowl winners drafted their QB.

I included Eli Manning because he was a draft day trade.

[Bootz]

So this is what Brock Purdy looks like without an all-star cast around him.....Exactly what I was afraid of as a Niners fan.

[Babeinbucland]

Saints lose. Yay.

[Babeinbucland]

A win today will be so huge for us on so many levels!!

[Miller4Prez64]

49ers would probably be down a few scores if the Browns had someone better than PJ Walker at QB today.

[Babeinbucland]

Looks like the refs are browns fans today. Good by me lol

[wesmon]

That was a really shady call in the niners game. Phantom personal foul.

[Bootz]

The ability to identify and draft a top QB has not been a formula for winning a Superbowl in this league.

15 of the last 20 super bowl winners drafted their QB.

I included Eli Manning because he was a draft day trade.

You're missing a ton of context.

Mahomes won it in 19 & 22.
Brady in 14, 16, & 18 very very deep into his career as a 6th round pick.

Before those 2, last one was Russell Wilson in 2013. And he was a 3rd round pick.

So basically in the past 10 years, if you aren't Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his mid to late 30s, SBs weren't coming to teams with 1st round starters they drafted.

[wesmon]

The refs are just going to carry the browns down the field

[wesmon]

15 of the last 20 super bowl winners drafted their QB.

I included Eli Manning because he was a draft day trade.

You're missing a ton of context.

Mahomes won it in 19 & 22.
Brady in 14, 16, & 18 very very deep into his career as a 6th round pick.

Before those 2, last one was Russell Wilson in 2013. And he was a 3rd round pick.

So basically in the past 10 years, if you aren't Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his mid to late 30s, SBs weren't coming to teams with 1st round starters they drafted.

The 15 of 20 still counts. It doesn't matter if a few QBs won a lot of them.

I would also argue that the consistently good teams tend to draft their QBs and have stability at the position.

[Selmon Rules]

Panthers came to play.

Things that didn’t age well.

They did show up, they just didn't stay long

[BucsNBills]

Jalen Hurts has been pretty bad so far this year. Might be turning back into a pumpkin...

[Doctor]

It's hard to win in this league. Everyone speaks in such absolute terms like "they cannot compete with them", yet what did we just see today? The incredible 49ers just lost to the Browns with a back up QB, the Eagles to the Zach Wilson J E T S, the Chiefs were one score to the freaking Broncos in the 4th.

The NFL isn't so simple or easy. It's any given sunday for a reason.

[13F11B]

That terrible play call by the Giants. Terrible.

[BucsNBills]

Okay with what's going on in Buffalo, this has clearly just been a really weird week for football.

[Bootz]

Any. Given. Sunday.

[Bootz]

The Giants are gonna win this game, aren't they?

[Snake]

Long Live Tyrod Taylor

[Bootz]

It's hard to win in this league. Everyone speaks in such absolute terms like "they cannot compete with them", yet what did we just see today? The incredible 49ers just lost to the Browns with a back up QB, the Eagles to the Zach Wilson J E T S, the Chiefs were one score to the freaking Broncos in the 4th.

The NFL isn't so simple or easy. It's any given sunday for a reason.

This week really showed how hard it is to win games. Nothing should be taken for granted in this league.

[Bootz]

You're missing a ton of context.

Mahomes won it in 19 & 22.
Brady in 14, 16, & 18 very very deep into his career as a 6th round pick.

Before those 2, last one was Russell Wilson in 2013. And he was a 3rd round pick.

So basically in the past 10 years, if you aren't Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his mid to late 30s, SBs weren't coming to teams with 1st round starters they drafted.

The 15 of 20 still counts. It doesn't matter if a few QBs won a lot of them.

I would also argue that the consistently good teams tend to draft their QBs and have stability at the position.

That number drops to 4 out of 8 when you take a much less broad sample size into consideration. Not sure who's utilizing draft strategy from 2004 still in a very fluid league.

[Phantom]

Any given Sunday. 49ers sucks

[13F11B]

You're missing a ton of context.

Mahomes won it in 19 & 22.
Brady in 14, 16, & 18 very very deep into his career as a 6th round pick.

Before those 2, last one was Russell Wilson in 2013. And he was a 3rd round pick.

So basically in the past 10 years, if you aren't Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his mid to late 30s, SBs weren't coming to teams with 1st round starters they drafted.

The 15 of 20 still counts. It doesn't matter if a few QBs won a lot of them.

I would also argue that the consistently good teams tend to draft their QBs and have stability at the position.

@Bootz likes to argue with immutable facts. Except when they conflict with what he believes.

I agree with you. Good teams draft and develop players including QBs. That is more a reason for success than the draft position of the QB. The fact that two guys (Brady who won EARLY in his career and late in his career) and Mahommes does not dilute the facts one bit.

[Doctor]

Tyrod ran when he should've passed and passed when he should've ran. That 100% should've been Barkley on the untimed down.

[Doctor]

You're missing a ton of context.

Mahomes won it in 19 & 22.
Brady in 14, 16, & 18 very very deep into his career as a 6th round pick.

Before those 2, last one was Russell Wilson in 2013. And he was a 3rd round pick.

So basically in the past 10 years, if you aren't Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his mid to late 30s, SBs weren't coming to teams with 1st round starters they drafted.

The 15 of 20 still counts. It doesn't matter if a few QBs won a lot of them.

I would also argue that the consistently good teams tend to draft their QBs and have stability at the position.

Yes, they "still count" but there is nuance to this. In data you take steps to account for your outliers, you don't simply let them skew your data and say "well they count". Brady is the outlier of outliers and one that will never be seen again.

Regardless the point stands. While it's awesome to draft your own QB, for a multitude of reasons, it's historically it's been more of a sirens call for franchises rather than a magic bullet.

The ability to "choose" your players gives one the illusion for far more control than they really have. Besides all the reasons already stated about how picking, particularly at QB, is so much blind luck.... you don't have a choice of what draft classes you get.

Here is an excercise, Sportsology's research shows that over the past five years, the NFL has the lowest average GM tenure of any of the big five U.S. sports (2.1 years) and the smallest hiring window. Go back and look at all the past QB draft classes, https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb, and tell me how many 2 year windows there are where if those were the draft classes that came out during your GM tenure your QB search would be shit out of luck?

Answer: A hell of a lot

[13F11B]

Here is an excercise, Sportsology's research shows that over the past five years, the NFL has the lowest average GM tenure of any of the big five U.S. sports (2.1 years) and the smallest hiring window. Go back and look at all the past QB draft classes, https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb, and tell me how many 2 year windows there are where if those were the draft classes that came out during your GM tenure your QB search would be shit out of luck?

Answer: A hell of a lot

Very good point.The constant churn of coaching staff, GM (and front office staff) makes it impossible for a competent staff to 'fix' a bad team. That largely explains why certain teams appear to always be competitive while others are forever circling the drain.

[Deja Entendu]

Context is key, so considering Brady and Mahomes dominated the SB over the last decade a better gauge would be to look at conference title games

They dominated those as well, but it throws a lot more teams into the stat pool.

Over the last 10 seasons, there was one conference championship game that didn’t feature a QB drafted by their team: Rams VS Niners in 2021**.

Of the 20 games, 11 of them featured both teams rolling w a QB they drafted, and overall 30** of the 40 teams started a QB they drafted.

***2 games / 29 teams if you want to remove Foles. He was drafted by the Eagles, but was back there as a journeyman backup before taking the reins when Wentz (drafted) went down. Purdy last year was also a technicality.

Basically there is more than one way to compete, but the teams that have sustained success tend to develop their QBs.

[Phantom]

King Henry here?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023 ... tv2ywxG9sQ

Henry's long been the heart and soul of the Titans' old-school offense, but he's pricey, aging for the position (30 in January), and already averaged fewer than four yards per carry in three of Tennessee's five games so far. On an expiring deal, with the much speedier Tyjae Spears in tow as a playmaker of the future, there's little reason for the Titans not to auction such a well-worn back, regardless of his resume. The challenge, of course, is realizing their playoff window is finally, truly closed.

Potential suitors: Browns, Buccaneers

[acmillis]

King Henry here?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023 ... tv2ywxG9sQ

Henry's long been the heart and soul of the Titans' old-school offense, but he's pricey, aging for the position (30 in January), and already averaged fewer than four yards per carry in three of Tennessee's five games so far. On an expiring deal, with the much speedier Tyjae Spears in tow as a playmaker of the future, there's little reason for the Titans not to auction such a well-worn back, regardless of his resume. The challenge, of course, is realizing their playoff window is finally, truly closed.

Potential suitors: Browns, Buccaneers

Hard pass. We're bringing him here for what? To win 9 games instead of 8 and ....god I sound like MJW.

[Doctor]

I would love this. Henry is likely playing for the team of his choice next year regardless. Titans could think they may as well get something for him, especially if they think the year is a wash. RBs usually go for day 3 picks. I'd do that.

One year rental on a guy who can jumpstart this entire offense with a chance to be a place he falls in love with, has fun, and re-signs a friendly deal to win with. I'd be down for that.

I think Baker, Evans, and Henry would hella get along.

[Bootz]

Derrick Henry would more than compensate for whatever run blocking woes we had. That said, no thanks. He doesn't move the needle in terms of helping us compete for a championship now and likely wouldn't next year.

[Doctor]

I don't see how he doesn't.

Lions started 1-6 before they started clicking, Geno's Seahawks 2-3. We're 3-2. Unless you are assuming predestined failure of crashing and burning, we can assume we'll be "getting better". Henry will not only accelerate our timeline on our learning curve, especially in the RB room, but he will elevate us overall. I can't think of someone who could move the needle more for less than Henry.

[Bootz]

Henry isn't that CMC type that can do it all IMO. He can't even elevate the Titans and they are arguably on the same level as the Bucs.

[Cheb]

I have been a Derrick Henry fan since he was in college, and love the career he's put together with the Titans.

That said, I don't think we should trade for him
The same goes for any running back to be honest. Our issues running the ball have to do with the front five, and adding another running back ain't gonna fix that.

[Bootz]

I think this year we could see a non-QB win MVP. Between CMC, Cheetah, the Dolphins 2 headed RB attack. They are standing out more than any QB at this point.

[Obsolete]

I love Henry but no, let another have him. Hes ancient for a rb and hes definitely starting to decline.
Would rather look for some oline help.