G-Mac out for the year

[kaimaru]

This right here. I watched G-Mac on hard knocks and he seemed like a soft, happy go lucky guy. There's nothing wrong with that as a human being, but it's not the type of disposition I'd want my defensive linemen to have. If he had a 10th of Suh's nastiness, he could've been All Pro several times.

No offense but this is top 10 in the belief system of every casual fan.

If he would just knock over podium's, get arrested and beat the crap out of some chicks he could have been a great football player!!

How good or bad you rate his on field play is fine, be encouraged to know that being nice and respectful off the field is a complete and total no factor.

BTW is VV a nasty fellow?

Rhetorical, I already know the answer....

We move on.

In response to this, I would like to point out that VV is a pro. He does his job. Have you seen him joking with players on the opposite team between plays? Nope, neither have I. But I have seen McCoy do that frequently in his later years. It comes off as you don't care if we win or not. Also, from every report I have read, Suh is smart, articulate, and a soft spoken person off the field. I and other didn't care how nice he was off the field. We wanted to see passion from him. Some intensity. That's all. Everyone loves Tom Brady on the team. He jokes with them, but when he's on that football field. There is no joking around. Do you see him even joking between possessions? All I see is a guy studying film and firing up his team.

[Cheb]

McCoy in the ROH? Hell no.

Mckay should be in before McCoy.

Imagine saying a guy who made 4 All-Pro teams and 5 Pro Bowls and was great for the community shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor. What does that say about you as an organization?

Agreed completely. There's an argument to be made that McCoy is the best Buc to play between our two Superbowl victories.

He won't get in tomorrow but he should get in eventually, along with LVD and Mike Evans when their time comes.

[Patrick McIrish]

No offense but this is top 10 in the belief system of every casual fan.

If he would just knock over podium's, get arrested and beat the crap out of some chicks he could have been a great football player!!

How good or bad you rate his on field play is fine, be encouraged to know that being nice and respectful off the field is a complete and total no factor.

BTW is VV a nasty fellow?

Rhetorical, I already know the answer....

We move on.

In response to this, I would like to point out that VV is a pro. He does his job. Have you seen him joking with players on the opposite team between plays? Nope, neither have I. But I have seen McCoy do that frequently in his later years. It comes off as you don't care if we win or not. Also, from every report I have read, Suh is smart, articulate, and a soft spoken person off the field. I and other didn't care how nice he was off the field. We wanted to see passion from him. Some intensity. That's all. Everyone loves Tom Brady on the team. He jokes with them, but when he's on that football field. There is no joking around. Do you see him even joking between possessions? All I see is a guy studying film and firing up his team.

Passion and intensity are not correlated with meanness.

The great majority of the time Brady is as nice to the other team as anyone in football when on the field.

Same with VV and 99.99% of the other players. They are pro's.

Easier to see if you watch baseball, do you see the guy at first that just got a hit talking to the 1B??

Or the guy at 2nd or 3rd? If instead of being respectful they were kicking the bag, mooning the umps and giving fans the bird would that show intensity you like?

It's all casual fan stuff, they all want to see "passion" and "intensity", most the time it's a detriment to what the player is doing on the field.

You want an edge? Give me the edge when they are training, lifting weights. Give it to me when watching film. That's when intensity counts.

McCoy was one of the best we ever had. He's a multi-time Pro-Bowler and was Captain for SEVERAL years!!

Do you think it's odd the people that actually play the game for a living were more than fine with GMac, considered him a leader?

Only a few posters here think he was "too nice" to do his job.

This started when that fing idiot Pete saw a clip of GMac bursting through the line on a dead play.....

He smacked at the football in the QB's hand before he realized the play was dead.

As he walked back he said "my bad man" or something to that affect. Ever since then Pete (and I assume others) said he was too soft, too nice to be good.

It's a nothing burger. It would be comical if not so pathetic.

Lynch, Barber, Rice, Brooks are some of the nicest and most respectful men this organization has ever seen.....

There is ZERO correlation in meanness and quality of play.

[Patrick McIrish]

BTW I must miss that "intensity and passion" from Suh?

Because he stepped on and kicked down players a few years ago that makes him passionate? He gets in trouble with the league?

That makes him a jackass.

A jackass that can play, which is all I care about but if you think that makes him more intense than VV (or anyone else) you need to do more reading about this sport.

No offense, you're a good poster, you're just way off base on this.

This is something that those who play the game and/or coach the game know better.

Fans love the water cooler getting kicked over or dirty play, it doesn't make anyone more passionate.

To me that is shown in the off-season, how hard they work when the cameras aren't on them.

That's the kind of intensity and passion you win with, Brady type of intensity.

We move on.

[Patrick McIrish]

BTW I don't want to belabor the point here but having coached HS football 50 years ago, some things never change.

The passionate and intense players always gave me the most trouble.

Watch football on the weekends, the guy that hits someone 10 yards out of bounds, or the guy on 3rd and 21 makes a decent play and then taunts the downed player.

Those are players full of passion and intensity.

Passion and intensity is for casual fans, for coaches it's something you have to coach out of them. Teach them to harness it. To control it.

The interactions between players on the field during games is almost always positive, lot of patting on the ass and so on.

I mean even the idea if McCoy kicked QB's in the head and played dirty it would have made him better is stuff you'll only find on fan boards......

It's patently ridiculous.

We move on.

[Defense5599]

BTW I don't want to belabor the point here but having coached HS football 50 years ago, some things never change.

The passionate and intense players always gave me the most trouble.

Watch football on the weekends, the guy that hits someone 10 yards out of bounds, or the guy on 3rd and 21 makes a decent play and then taunts the downed player.

Those are players full of passion and intensity.

Passion and intensity is for casual fans, for coaches it's something you have to coach out of them. Teach them to harness it. To control it.

The interactions between players on the field during games is almost always positive, lot of patting on the ass and so on.

I mean even the idea if McCoy kicked QB's in the head and played dirty it would have made him better is stuff you'll only find on fan boards......

It's patently ridiculous.

We move on.

Great to see you again, man. We need to get together and have a few pints

[MJW]

Never understood the McCoy hate.

Sucks for him. I think this should probably be it.

[Rocker]

Kaimaru is every inch of the poster Secrets wants to be. Great work.

[kaimaru]

In response to this, I would like to point out that VV is a pro. He does his job. Have you seen him joking with players on the opposite team between plays? Nope, neither have I. But I have seen McCoy do that frequently in his later years. It comes off as you don't care if we win or not. Also, from every report I have read, Suh is smart, articulate, and a soft spoken person off the field. I and other didn't care how nice he was off the field. We wanted to see passion from him. Some intensity. That's all. Everyone loves Tom Brady on the team. He jokes with them, but when he's on that football field. There is no joking around. Do you see him even joking between possessions? All I see is a guy studying film and firing up his team.



Passion and intensity are not correlated with meanness.

The great majority of the time Brady is as nice to the other team as anyone in football when on the field.

I only have problems with these two things. No one wanted him to be nasty. I didn't. I only cared that he was cutting it up with the foe on gameday, and that he would cut it up on the sidelines with Kwon Alexander.

Really, you haven't seem Brady trash talk at all. Never? Including the super bowl with Tyrann Mathieu. Yeah, he's a model citizen to the other team.

[kaimaru]

BTW I must miss that "intensity and passion" from Suh?

Because he stepped on and kicked down players a few years ago that makes him passionate? He gets in trouble with the league?

That makes him a jackass.

A jackass that can play, which is all I care about but if you think that makes him more intense than VV (or anyone else) you need to do more reading about this sport.

No offense, you're a good poster, you're just way off base on this.

This is something that those who play the game and/or coach the game know better.

Fans love the water cooler getting kicked over or dirty play, it doesn't make anyone more passionate.

To me that is shown in the off-season, how hard they work when the cameras aren't on them.

That's the kind of intensity and passion you win with, Brady type of intensity.

We move on.

As far as I am aware, Suh hasn't been suspended the last SEVEN YEARS. But sure, make him out a dirty player. I guess you didn't see him jawing with Aaron Rodgers in week 6. Also, I am not understanding why you feel like I dislike McCoy. I painted than on many forums people felt he was soft or didn't care. I never felt he was soft, but his antics felt like he didn't care if we won or loss. I disliked him for awhile but I never hated him or anything. Now that he's not on the Panthers squad, I was hoping he would have a good year. He was very unlucky 2 years in a row. I was just trying to explain the perceived hate. It's the past. I'm not trying to vilify him or anything.

[MJW]

Kaimaru is every inch of the poster Secrets wants to be. Great work.

Secrets is what the kids call "a deep cut." Forgot about that idiot.

[mdb1958]

I remember when the coaches wanted Gerald to try DE and he wasnt happy about it. I always was saying we need to get him some help, but then I slowly realized he was a one trick pony and teams were using his specialty against us. With that contract it just wasnt working.

[MJW]

I remember when the coaches wanted Gerald to try DE and he wasnt happy about it. I always was saying we need to get him some help, but then I slowly realized he was a one trick pony and teams were using his specialty against us. With that contract it just wasnt working.

Yep. He didn't want to move to end, and he didn't want to play in a scheme that used stunts as much as we did during his prime.

Like I said, I never hated him and I have zero ill will towards him. But I wouldn't want him back on anything but a one-day retirement deal. Not even if he was healthy and in great shape.

[Buc2]

This right here. I watched G-Mac on hard knocks and he seemed like a soft, happy go lucky guy. There's nothing wrong with that as a human being, but it's not the type of disposition I'd want my defensive linemen to have. If he had a 10th of Suh's nastiness, he could've been All Pro several times.

No offense but this is top 10 in the belief system of every casual fan.

If he would just knock over podium's, get arrested and beat the crap out of some chicks he could have been a great football player!!

How good or bad you rate his on field play is fine, be encouraged to know that being nice and respectful off the field is a complete and total no factor.

BTW is VV a nasty fellow?

Rhetorical, I already know the answer....

We move on.

Good point. And, yes, I know the answer to the Vea question.

[CannonFire]

I stopped caring about McCoy the day he left the Bucs. Sucks that he's hurt... sucks when anyone gets hurt, but that's the game and there's nothing that can be done with that. Good luck and hope you heal Gerald. Aside from that, it doesn't affect the Bucs, so it doesn't affect me.

[BLT]

This right here. I watched G-Mac on hard knocks and he seemed like a soft, happy go lucky guy. There's nothing wrong with that as a human being, but it's not the type of disposition I'd want my defensive linemen to have. If he had a 10th of Suh's nastiness, he could've been All Pro several times.

No offense but this is top 10 in the belief system of every casual fan.

If he would just knock over podium's, get arrested and beat the crap out of some chicks he could have been a great football player!!

How good or bad you rate his on field play is fine, be encouraged to know that being nice and respectful off the field is a complete and total no factor.

BTW is VV a nasty fellow?

Rhetorical, I already know the answer....

We move on.

Whiff.

He was soft and goofy both on and off the field because that's his personality. You can be a good person and still play mean football though.

This sport isn't for the GMac's.

[King Bootz]

I'm sorry. What exactly is the argument against Gerald McCoy's personality? That he'd have 10 All-Pro teams instead of 5? That he'd have more sacks? Y'all are acting as if he was Courtney Brown or something. The correlation between his personality and productivity as a football player fail miserably because we saw him play and we saw him produce on the field.

[BLT]

His personality for a leader on our defense was detrimental to the culture and overall mentality of the group.

[King Bootz]

His personality for a leader on our defense was detrimental to the culture and overall mentality of the group.

Guessing that's why they majority of the guys on the defense while he was here are gone now, huh? He "influenced" them too much?

[BLT]

Lol bro what?

[Doctor]

He was one of the best in his position for year and made multiple probowls and all pro teams but this sport "wasn't for him". Okay pal.


One thing that gets very overlooked is how little help GMac had during his career here. We like to pretend that all these studs in the front 7 from 2002 and even today "just so happen" to play together and never once consider the fact that maybe one of the things that help make them all these talented players into studs is the fact that they were/are all playing together.

[BLT]

The upgrade from McCoy to Suh was phenomenal for this defense.

[King Bootz]

The upgrade from McCoy to Suh was phenomenal for this defense.

There's some context missing here. Suh was not a facilitator for this defense in the same way McCoy was. Suh, for as valuable as he is for this defense, is a role player in this offense. While McCoy during his time here was the top guy on the defense, that ain't Suh here. I'd have Vea, LVD, DW, Shaq, JPP, and CD3 above Suh here.

We've seen Suh in the role as the best player on his respective defenses in Detroit and Miami. As "nasty" as he was, it never translated into the entire defense being a force. He's good here because he has a specific role, not because he's a leader or the best player.

[BJJ34]

McCoy in the ROH? Hell no.

Mckay should be in before McCoy.

Imagine saying a guy who made 4 All-Pro teams and 5 Pro Bowls and was great for the community shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor. What does that say about you as an organization?

Guy never improved the team around him. The ROH is generally for guys who won. I’d rather 83(You Go Joe) to be in before 93. Hell Matt Bryant in before 93.

McCoy left sourly. And I am one of those who was thankful we brought in Suh.

[BLT]

The upgrade from McCoy to Suh was phenomenal for this defense.

There's some context missing here. Suh was not a facilitator for this defense in the same way McCoy was. Suh, for as valuable as he is for this defense, is a role player in this offense. While McCoy during his time here was the top guy on the defense, that ain't Suh here. I'd have Vea, LVD, DW, Shaq, JPP, and CD3 above Suh here.

We've seen Suh in the role as the best player on his respective defenses in Detroit and Miami. As "nasty" as he was, it never translated into the entire defense being a force. He's good here because he has a specific role, not because he's a leader or the best player.

Exactly. Suh makes a bigger impact as a role player than McCoy ever made. McCoy was never good enough to elevate the rest of the defense as a leader. He should have been a role player not a third overall pick. Has he ever been on a top 10 defense or played in a playoff game?

McCoy's a clown.

[Buc2]

Imagine saying a guy who made 4 All-Pro teams and 5 Pro Bowls and was great for the community shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor. What does that say about you as an organization?

Guy never improved the team around him. The ROH is generally for guys who won. I’d rather 83(You Go Joe) to be in before 93. Hell Matt Bryant in before 93.

McCoy left sourly. And I am one of those who was thankful we brought in Suh.

Doug Williams left on a sour note as well. Do you begrudge his induction to the RoH?

[King Bootz]

Guy never improved the team around him. The ROH is generally for guys who won. I’d rather 83(You Go Joe) to be in before 93. Hell Matt Bryant in before 93.

McCoy left sourly. And I am one of those who was thankful we brought in Suh.

Doug Williams left on a sour note as well. Do you begrudge his induction to the RoH?

He said the ROH is for guys who won. He's unknowingly disqualified about half of the guys in the Bucs ROH, including the 1st 4 entries.

[King Bootz]

There's some context missing here. Suh was not a facilitator for this defense in the same way McCoy was. Suh, for as valuable as he is for this defense, is a role player in this offense. While McCoy during his time here was the top guy on the defense, that ain't Suh here. I'd have Vea, LVD, DW, Shaq, JPP, and CD3 above Suh here.

We've seen Suh in the role as the best player on his respective defenses in Detroit and Miami. As "nasty" as he was, it never translated into the entire defense being a force. He's good here because he has a specific role, not because he's a leader or the best player.

Exactly. Suh makes a bigger impact as a role player than McCoy ever made. McCoy was never good enough to elevate the rest of the defense as a leader. He should have been a role player not a third overall pick. Has he ever been on a top 10 defense or played in a playoff game?

McCoy's a clown.

Suh doesn't elevate this defense. He's elevated by this defense

[BLT]

McCoy has been part of a last place division finish 7/9 years here.

[Buc2]

I have to agree with Bootz here. Suh hasn't stood out on this defense. Yes...he's been recognized as a positive on this defense, but that's not the same as standing out. Lee Roy Selmon stood out. Warren Sapp stood out. John Lynch stood out. Derrick Brooks stood out. McCoy stood out. LVD stands out. Vea Stands out. Suh. Not so much. And don't take that to mean I don't think he's a really good player. Within this defense, he certainly is. But he could be replaced and this defense would hardly skip a beat.

[Buc2]

McCoy has been part of a last place division finish 7/9 years here.

That's an indictment of the Bucs. Not McCoy.

[King Bootz]

McCoy has been part of a last place division finish 7/9 years here.

You say this not realizing the same applies to Lavonte David. But as @Buc2 stated, that's an indictment on the Bucs, not 1 individual player

[IronDog]

BTW is VV a nasty fellow?

Only if you were between him and the opposing QB. Man oh man it was so nice to see him moving the center as if the guy was as puny as me, on his way, repeatedly, to Dak Prescott the other night.

[BLT]

McCoy has been part of a last place division finish 7/9 years here.

You say this not realizing the same applies to Lavonte David. But as @Buc2 stated, that's an indictment on the Bucs, not 1 individual player

LVD was still here when we got the ring because he's a beast. McCoy was not.

[BLT]

McCoy has been part of a last place division finish 7/9 years here.

That's an indictment of the Bucs. Not McCoy.

Obviously I'm not saying that's due to McCoy. I'm just highlighting that he's a loser.