Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

This section is for discussions involving the Buccaneers as a team, and other teams in the NFL.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Doctor »

I mean, honestly, I don't think we wanted Brady last year. We had to take him. Besides being under contract, we aren't BB foolish enough to throw away a chance at a post-season shot with Tom. But we were really set up to move on. We had Trask two years groomed, we had Arians the QB whisperer, and we had a lot of other things smartly set up. Brady's returned through a wrench into the whole thing, all of the sudden we're signing Jensen, Gage, Lenny, Julio, etc to try run it back instead of run it forward.

Now we're trying to get back on track, all be it not quite how we had planned, with life Post Brady.
Image
User avatar
Bootz
Posts: 5943
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:55 pm
Reputation: 1510
Location: In that dome of yours

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Bootz »

mdb1958 wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:12 am
Bootz wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 12:42 am

What he showed was he wasn't good enough to beat out Blaine Gabbert. And for all of the "but Tom Brady prefers a vet behind him" crowd, go look at his backups in New England kick rocks. That's a fictional story people here made up to coddle themselves.
He gets to beat out Blaine this year. Talk is cheap, mdb will wait to see things.
Blaine is in KC
Most hated man in America.
mdb1958
Posts: 7406
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:11 pm
Reputation: 21

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by mdb1958 »

Bootz wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:29 am
mdb1958 wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:12 am

He gets to beat out Blaine this year. Talk is cheap, mdb will wait to see things.
Blaine is in KC
See! He already won..
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

Doctor wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:27 am I mean, honestly, I don't think we wanted Brady last year. We had to take him. Besides being under contract, we aren't BB foolish enough to throw away a chance at a post-season shot with Tom. But we were really set up to move on. We had Trask two years groomed, we had Arians the QB whisperer, and we had a lot of other things smartly set up. Brady's returned through a wrench into the whole thing, all of the sudden we're signing Jensen, Gage, Lenny, Julio, etc to try run it back instead of run it forward.

Now we're trying to get back on track, all be it not quite how we had planned, with life Post Brady.
When you look back that entire off-season was a giant cluster-eff mess, and yeah, with the benefit of hindsight we’d have been better off getting the rebuild rolling a year sooner.

But, you don’t say no to Tom if he wants to play.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Doctor »

Exactly my point, you don't say no.
Now we have a to clean up after some of those yeses and do an extra detour or two for the rebuild. Nothing too awful and we should be back on track soon enough.
Image
User avatar
13F11B
Posts: 4602
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 pm
Reputation: 1126

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by 13F11B »

Doctor wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:58 pm Exactly my point, you don't say no.
Now we have a to clean up after some of those yeses and do an extra detour or two for the rebuild. Nothing too awful and we should be back on track soon enough.
You have a lot more faith in the Buccaneers front office than I do. I am used to Super Bowl, 15+ years of suck, Super Bowl,...

Better than some teams, but not the Steelers, Patriots, or Cowboys.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Doctor »

I'm hoping we can learn from our need for instant noodles and avoid the regime carousels that lead to 15+ years of sucking.
Image
Snake
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Snake »

Doctor wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:10 pm I'm hoping we can learn from our need for instant noodles and avoid the regime carousels that lead to 15+ years of sucking.
I get the sentiment of giving guys time. But this falls on ownership for signing off on so many bad hires. Koetter, Schiano, Morris were not quality HC hires at the time of their hiring and no amount of waiting would’ve resolved that. Throw Lovie in there too. Average, at best.
Image
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Doctor »

Ownership meddling is a leading cause to suckage in the NFL. You can never discount when they will intervene.
Image
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

13F11B wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:03 pm
Doctor wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:58 pm Exactly my point, you don't say no.
Now we have a to clean up after some of those yeses and do an extra detour or two for the rebuild. Nothing too awful and we should be back on track soon enough.
You have a lot more faith in the Buccaneers front office than I do. I am used to Super Bowl, 15+ years of suck, Super Bowl,...

Better than some teams, but not the Steelers, Patriots, or Cowboys.
I wouldn't include the Cowboys. But, the Steelers/Packers/Patriots are great models of success. They also had their runs coincide with HOF franchise QB play.
GreatTimes
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:24 pm
Reputation: 205

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by GreatTimes »

If I was going to give a draft grade for the Buc's drafts from 2018 to 2021 it would be a D minus. The Bucs have had a few hits, but for the most part the drafts have been a big miss.
User avatar
Babeinbucland
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 pm
Reputation: 778

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Babeinbucland »

13F11B wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:03 pm
Doctor wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:58 pm Exactly my point, you don't say no.
Now we have a to clean up after some of those yeses and do an extra detour or two for the rebuild. Nothing too awful and we should be back on track soon enough.
You have a lot more faith in the Buccaneers front office than I do. I am used to Super Bowl, 15+ years of suck, Super Bowl,...

Better than some teams, but not the Steelers, Patriots, or Cowboys.
The cowpaddies? Really? Gross.
I said what I said

Image
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

GreatTimes wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:40 pm If I was going to give a draft grade for the Buc's drafts from 2018 to 2021 it would be a D minus. The Bucs have had a few hits, but for the most part the drafts have been a big miss.
So interesting. You couldn’t be more wrong and I’d put those drafts up against just about any other franchise over that stretch.

Vita Vea, Carlton Davis, Jordan Whitehead, and Alex Cappa just in 2018. Devin White and Anthony Nelson in 2019. Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr. In 2020. Jury still out on 2021.
GreatTimes
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:24 pm
Reputation: 205

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by GreatTimes »

Grahamburn wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:08 pm
GreatTimes wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:40 pm If I was going to give a draft grade for the Buc's drafts from 2018 to 2021 it would be a D minus. The Bucs have had a few hits, but for the most part the drafts have been a big miss.
So interesting. You couldn’t be more wrong and I’d put those drafts up against just about any other franchise over that stretch.

Vita Vea, Carlton Davis, Jordan Whitehead, and Alex Cappa just in 2018. Devin White and Anthony Nelson in 2019. Tristan Wirfs and Antoine Winfield Jr. In 2020. Jury still out on 2021.
With all those drafts picks you mentioned, the Bucs are rated near the bottom of barrel in expected 2023 outcomes. You don't rank near dead last in power rankings if you have had great drafts.
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

Power Rankings.. You serious, Clark?
User avatar
13F11B
Posts: 4602
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 pm
Reputation: 1126

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by 13F11B »

Babeinbucland wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:07 pm
13F11B wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:03 pm

You have a lot more faith in the Buccaneers front office than I do. I am used to Super Bowl, 15+ years of suck, Super Bowl,...

Better than some teams, but not the Steelers, Patriots, or Cowboys.
The cowpaddies? Really? Gross.
I hate the Cowboys, but it is hard to argue against that franchise being a good one. 1966 to 1973 was a pretty good run. 1975 through 1979 was pretty good too. 1992 through 1995 was excellent. Five total Super Bowl championships.

I hate them, but that is solid.
User avatar
Babeinbucland
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 pm
Reputation: 778

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Babeinbucland »

13F11B wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 pm
Babeinbucland wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:07 pm

The cowpaddies? Really? Gross.
I hate the Cowboys, but it is hard to argue against that franchise being a good one. 1966 to 1973 was a pretty good run. 1975 through 1979 was pretty good too. 1992 through 1995 was excellent. Five total Super Bowl championships.

I hate them, but that is solid.
Omg Join us in the present. Please. :evil: They suck and their fan based deserves the suckage.
I said what I said

Image
User avatar
13F11B
Posts: 4602
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 pm
Reputation: 1126

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by 13F11B »

Babeinbucland wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 12:34 am
13F11B wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 10:58 pm

I hate the Cowboys, but it is hard to argue against that franchise being a good one. 1966 to 1973 was a pretty good run. 1975 through 1979 was pretty good too. 1992 through 1995 was excellent. Five total Super Bowl championships.

I hate them, but that is solid.
Omg Join us in the present. Please. :evil: They suck and their fan based deserves the suckage.
I prefer to keep my long-term memory. If not, I would not recall the early glory years of the Buccaneers under Doug Williams.
User avatar
Babeinbucland
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 pm
Reputation: 778

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Babeinbucland »

13F11B wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:29 am
Babeinbucland wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 12:34 am

Omg Join us in the present. Please. :evil: They suck and their fan based deserves the suckage.
I prefer to keep my long-term memory. If not, I would not recall the early glory years of the Buccaneers under Doug Williams.
I was surprised that no one put him on their top ten Bucs list. Ahhhhh what could have been…He is still a class act too. I read a long time ago that Culverhouses’ son made a $1,000,000 donation to Grambling when Doug was coaching there to try to make up for his dick of a father
I said what I said

Image
User avatar
13F11B
Posts: 4602
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 pm
Reputation: 1126

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by 13F11B »

Babeinbucland wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 11:12 am
13F11B wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:29 am

I prefer to keep my long-term memory. If not, I would not recall the early glory years of the Buccaneers under Doug Williams.
I was surprised that no one put him on their top ten Bucs list. Ahhhhh what could have been…He is still a class act too. I read a long time ago that Culverhouses’ son made a $1,000,000 donation to Grambling when Doug was coaching there to try to make up for his dick of a father
I was a huge William fan, but thanks to two Super Bowl winning teams he has been moved to #11 on my list. I was so happy for him when he won the Super Bowl with Washington. The man has faced so much adversity and tragedy in life.
User avatar
Babeinbucland
Posts: 3845
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 pm
Reputation: 778

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Babeinbucland »

13F11B wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 12:38 pm
Babeinbucland wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 11:12 am

I was surprised that no one put him on their top ten Bucs list. Ahhhhh what could have been…He is still a class act too. I read a long time ago that Culverhouses’ son made a $1,000,000 donation to Grambling when Doug was coaching there to try to make up for his dick of a father
I was a huge William fan, but thanks to two Super Bowl winning teams he has been moved to #11 on my list. I was so happy for him when he won the Super Bowl with Washington. The man has faced so much adversity and tragedy in life.
Agree 100% - Being from VA the WFT is my second favorite team. I was a little too young to appreciate that win at the time though
I said what I said

Image
User avatar
13F11B
Posts: 4602
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 pm
Reputation: 1126

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by 13F11B »

User avatar
MJW
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:21 pm
Reputation: 2037

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by MJW »

Grahamburn wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:34 pm
Doctor wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:27 am I mean, honestly, I don't think we wanted Brady last year. We had to take him. Besides being under contract, we aren't BB foolish enough to throw away a chance at a post-season shot with Tom. But we were really set up to move on. We had Trask two years groomed, we had Arians the QB whisperer, and we had a lot of other things smartly set up. Brady's returned through a wrench into the whole thing, all of the sudden we're signing Jensen, Gage, Lenny, Julio, etc to try run it back instead of run it forward.

Now we're trying to get back on track, all be it not quite how we had planned, with life Post Brady.
When you look back that entire off-season was a giant cluster-eff mess, and yeah, with the benefit of hindsight we’d have been better off getting the rebuild rolling a year sooner.

But, you don’t say no to Tom if he wants to play.
The mistake was gifting Arians's friends their jobs.

When Bill Cowher left, the Steelers had Ken Wisenhunt and Russ Grimm in house. Both were close with Cowher and ownership. Both were considered future head coaches (Wisenhunt would take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl a few years later.)

The Steelers interviewed them for the job, along with others, though that was seen as due diligence. I was Wisenhunt or Grimm.

Whelp, they not only went outside the building after all, they hired Mike Tomlin, who had zero history with the franchise and had served exactly 1 season at the Coordinator level.

Contrast that with what we did. No interviews, no searches. Just Arians saying "Todd gets to be head coach, he can be his own DC, and sorry Byron you're runner up you can be offensive coordinator. I'm going to take a nap."

If we'd done what the Steelers did, and handed a good coach that team with Tom Brady, who knows? I'm guessing better than what we got, though.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

MJW wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 2:47 am
Grahamburn wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:34 pm

When you look back that entire off-season was a giant cluster-eff mess, and yeah, with the benefit of hindsight we’d have been better off getting the rebuild rolling a year sooner.

But, you don’t say no to Tom if he wants to play.
The mistake was gifting Arians's friends their jobs.

When Bill Cowher left, the Steelers had Ken Wisenhunt and Russ Grimm in house. Both were close with Cowher and ownership. Both were considered future head coaches (Wisenhunt would take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl a few years later.)

The Steelers interviewed them for the job, along with others, though that was seen as due diligence. I was Wisenhunt or Grimm.

Whelp, they not only went outside the building after all, they hired Mike Tomlin, who had zero history with the franchise and had served exactly 1 season at the Coordinator level.

Contrast that with what we did. No interviews, no searches. Just Arians saying "Todd gets to be head coach, he can be his own DC, and sorry Byron you're runner up you can be offensive coordinator. I'm going to take a nap."

If we'd done what the Steelers did, and handed a good coach that team with Tom Brady, who knows? I'm guessing better than what we got, though.
By the time Brady un-retired, and Arians subsequently stepped down (a condition of Brady’s return I’m sure whether either of them will admit it or not), we were well into the off-season.

There just was not enough time to overhaul the staff, and honestly I doubt Brady wanted them to.

Ali retiring, Gronk not coming back, and then Jensen getting hurt on the first day of camp just derailed the whole thing. Tom basically went into the fetal position for the season that day.

The tea leaves were there.
Four Verticals
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:37 am
Reputation: 102

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Four Verticals »

Grahamburn wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 6:34 am
MJW wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 2:47 am

The mistake was gifting Arians's friends their jobs.

When Bill Cowher left, the Steelers had Ken Wisenhunt and Russ Grimm in house. Both were close with Cowher and ownership. Both were considered future head coaches (Wisenhunt would take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl a few years later.)

The Steelers interviewed them for the job, along with others, though that was seen as due diligence. I was Wisenhunt or Grimm.

Whelp, they not only went outside the building after all, they hired Mike Tomlin, who had zero history with the franchise and had served exactly 1 season at the Coordinator level.

Contrast that with what we did. No interviews, no searches. Just Arians saying "Todd gets to be head coach, he can be his own DC, and sorry Byron you're runner up you can be offensive coordinator. I'm going to take a nap."

If we'd done what the Steelers did, and handed a good coach that team with Tom Brady, who knows? I'm guessing better than what we got, though.
By the time Brady un-retired, and Arians subsequently stepped down (a condition of Brady’s return I’m sure whether either of them will admit it or not), we were well into the off-season.

There just was not enough time to overhaul the staff, and honestly I doubt Brady wanted them to.

Ali retiring, Gronk not coming back, and then Jensen getting hurt on the first day of camp just derailed the whole thing. Tom basically went into the fetal position for the season that day.

The tea leaves were there.
I read this after posting similar thoughts elsewhere.

Exactly.
Obsolete
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:19 pm
Reputation: 180

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Obsolete »

Grahamburn wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 6:34 am
MJW wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 2:47 am

The mistake was gifting Arians's friends their jobs.

When Bill Cowher left, the Steelers had Ken Wisenhunt and Russ Grimm in house. Both were close with Cowher and ownership. Both were considered future head coaches (Wisenhunt would take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl a few years later.)

The Steelers interviewed them for the job, along with others, though that was seen as due diligence. I was Wisenhunt or Grimm.

Whelp, they not only went outside the building after all, they hired Mike Tomlin, who had zero history with the franchise and had served exactly 1 season at the Coordinator level.

Contrast that with what we did. No interviews, no searches. Just Arians saying "Todd gets to be head coach, he can be his own DC, and sorry Byron you're runner up you can be offensive coordinator. I'm going to take a nap."

If we'd done what the Steelers did, and handed a good coach that team with Tom Brady, who knows? I'm guessing better than what we got, though.
By the time Brady un-retired, and Arians subsequently stepped down (a condition of Brady’s return I’m sure whether either of them will admit it or not), we were well into the off-season.

There just was not enough time to overhaul the staff, and honestly I doubt Brady wanted them to.

Ali retiring, Gronk not coming back, and then Jensen getting hurt on the first day of camp just derailed the whole thing. Tom basically went into the fetal position for the season that day.

The tea leaves were there.
Giving Bowles the 5yr contract and not just treating him as an interim head coach was the mistake.
They really should've wait until the season was over, had a real coaching search, and if Bowles was hired then, fine. At least he beat out the compitition.
I don't like the "gifting" of the job, especially if you look at his prior track record.
Grahamburn
Posts: 3138
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:50 pm
Reputation: 939

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by Grahamburn »

That’s a fair point, but it’s not my money and has no impact on the cap. The Glazers will move on if necessary.
User avatar
MJW
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:21 pm
Reputation: 2037

Re: Questions about players, scheme, going in 2023 season

Post by MJW »

Grahamburn wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 6:34 am
MJW wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 2:47 am

The mistake was gifting Arians's friends their jobs.

When Bill Cowher left, the Steelers had Ken Wisenhunt and Russ Grimm in house. Both were close with Cowher and ownership. Both were considered future head coaches (Wisenhunt would take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl a few years later.)

The Steelers interviewed them for the job, along with others, though that was seen as due diligence. I was Wisenhunt or Grimm.

Whelp, they not only went outside the building after all, they hired Mike Tomlin, who had zero history with the franchise and had served exactly 1 season at the Coordinator level.

Contrast that with what we did. No interviews, no searches. Just Arians saying "Todd gets to be head coach, he can be his own DC, and sorry Byron you're runner up you can be offensive coordinator. I'm going to take a nap."

If we'd done what the Steelers did, and handed a good coach that team with Tom Brady, who knows? I'm guessing better than what we got, though.
By the time Brady un-retired, and Arians subsequently stepped down (a condition of Brady’s return I’m sure whether either of them will admit it or not), we were well into the off-season.

There just was not enough time to overhaul the staff, and honestly I doubt Brady wanted them to.

Ali retiring, Gronk not coming back, and then Jensen getting hurt on the first day of camp just derailed the whole thing. Tom basically went into the fetal position for the season that day.

The tea leaves were there.
Sometimes you have to be able to overcome things. Bowles has shown zero ability to do so as a head coach. A few bad circumstances were beyond his control, but you could say the same thing about every team every year.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Post Reply