Post-2023 draft roster, ramblings, and general draft takeaways

[Snake]

Let’s start with buccaneer centric stuff.

1. Did not take a quarterback. USC made a comment somewhere about having the opportunity, and subsequently passing on, Hooker and Levis. And how this is informative. It speaks to those prospects in the eyes of 1BP, it also says something about the QBs already in the building. upgrading your quarterback is the fastest way to improve your team immediately. They mustn’t had been deemed upgrades. Or were seen as projects comparable to Trask, a player with heavy time investment.

Bear with me, this is ramble-y but I think there’s a point.

Baker was signed for cheap. Not enough money to ensure him the starting job. But at worst real backup $. Arm talent to dream on, but ultimately the contract total speaks volumes to his value across the league. Aka: his sighing wouldn’t prevent you from drafting a QB.

Even the Patriots threw occasional picks at QBs during Brady’s tenure. It’s always wise to have a young one brewing. Bucs think they already have one.

If Baker plays cromulent middle of the road football and wins the job out of TC, how long do they stick with him if he’s playing, say, .500 football after 8 games?

Unless Baker Mayfield plays at career best pace, I don’t see the Buccaneers being content with not seeing Trask under live fire for multiple games. He’s the reason they didn’t take a QB. Taking inventory on him is basically *unavoidable* this season.

1b. I’m beginning to think Licht and ownership have an agreement about this season re: QBs (and possibly Todd Bowles)…

“We’re resetting the cap. The GOAT left. We need to see what we have in Trask. We like him. Let’s bring in a vet with a lot of experience and arm talent to push him. We like Todd too. Let’s reload his defense with a bunch of young talent, see if Carnales has a penchant for making chicken salad of out chicken shit, and let the record be the record.

“Worst” case scenario: both QBs stink and we’re probably drafting high.

Best case scenario: Trask wins the job and asserts himself as a quality starting QB. Baker is told to go home in week 12 because his divisive presence in the locker room is causing problems.

Actual worst case scenario: Both QBs are average to slightly below. Baker has a magical game or two. Trask starts strong but regresses as season goes on. Clear as mud.

2. A draft for Todd Bowles.

8 players taken, 3 offensive players taken. in rounds 2, 5, 6.

One offensive player is a tentative starter- Mauch. Roster lock.

One offensive player is primed for TE2/3 spot. a lock. Team loved him pre-draft and traded up to secure him.

The last is a track star type WR. Not a lock, but I’m guessing makes the cut. he adds a speed element not currently in the WR room.

The rest: Toys for Todd.

Explosive game wrecking 3T type.
Big bodied EDGE with elite linear athleticism.
Possible DW45 replacement. A special position in the Bowles defense.
CB/S hybrid who isn’t afraid to hit and play ST.
Another EDGE.
(I’m choosing to be optimistic with my characterizations here…)

I guess anyone COULD be the coach of these fellas. But it feels like a draft tailor made for Bowles’s brand of blitz heavy defense. A defense that is in the midst of major turnover with more to come.

Gholston - gone
White - one foot out the door
LVD - probably retires after this season
Nunez Roches - gone
Shaq - post-30 and coming off major injury
SMB - gone
Edwards - gone
Hicks - gone (was he ever really here?)
Neal - gone

I know I know, “snake, every team has turnover on both sides of the ball.”

Yep, but this was a SB winning defense that management desperately tried to keep together. Undergoing major changes. With more to come.

3. No RBs drafted

I was convinced the team was taking a mid-round RB to tandem with White. I was wrong!

There’s zero doubt R. White is RB1 and Licht is very okay with that.

White
Vaughn
Edmonds

the team snagged a UDFA RB out of Syracuse (S. Tucker) who many of you are excited about. I think he’s a lock after watching the tape. Idk if Licht would cut Vaughn or carry 4 RBs, but I wouldn’t shed any tears if they let someone go here…

If Tucker is legit, Licht played this one perfectly imo.

4. Floor vs ceiling

I’ll be honest. I expect the team to be bad next season and maybe in perpetuity until they find another great QB. When a team is bad/rebuilding, I’m big on drafting younger players and elite athletic guys because they’ll have room to grow.

I think some of us here became frustrated because we perceived some of the picks as guys who, frankly, aren’t dynamic. Even if they tested well (diaby).

My biggest issue is the built in excuse: “Josh Hayes didnt amount to anything because he was a sixth rounder. What did you expect?!?”

It’s true, the late round guys have warts. Or they have one elite trait to hang their hat on and that’s about it. I get it. It’s a lottery ticket.

I just prefer my scratch offs to have payoffs in the hundreds, not the dozens. It’s why I’ll take Hodges-Tomlinson over Josh Hayes every day of the week.

[Snake]

5. The team probably believes in Zyon McCollum [and can’t afford to be wrong (in 2023)].

Zyon McCollum is one of the more interesting draft picks in recent Buccaneer history.

You remember. The most athletic CB ever tested. In shorts. But simultaneously was on tape losing to 5’9 NAIA white WRs. In pads.

McCollum is penciled in as CB3. SMB’s old spot. SMB was on the field somewhere between 50-80% of the defensive snaps the last four seasons. And about 30% of the ST snaps.

McCollum manned about 30% of the defensive snaps his rookie season. And 60% of the ST snaps. Really good chance those numbers reverse, and he’s elevated to starting NB.

This will be your first sign that the McCollum decision isn’t working out: Josh Hayes is taking his snaps in TC.

Hayes played 63 games in college football. He has experience at safety and CB. Despite Mccollum’s year of NFL experience, he’s probably behind this kid insofar as high level football snaps.

I’ve also seen people speculate about McCollum’s viability at FS. Given his ability to cover ground. Safety IS looking thing right now. But, 4.3 becomes a 5.3 if you take one second too long to process what’s happening…

[Snake]

I’m gonna leave it to somebody like @Nobody or @Cheb to tell us if we should be excited/dismayed, given McCollum’s rookie reason…

[Bootz]

Explosive game wrecking 3T type.
Big bodied EDGE with elite linear athleticism.
Possible DW45 replacement. A special position in the Bowles defense.
CB/S hybrid who isn’t afraid to hit and play ST.
Another EDGE.

Who are these players? I get you're being "optimistic". But this isn't optimism. This is some multiverse if we're lucky type stuff.

[Snake]

Explosive game wrecking 3T type.
Big bodied EDGE with elite linear athleticism.
Possible DW45 replacement. A special position in the Bowles defense.
CB/S hybrid who isn’t afraid to hit and play ST.
Another EDGE.

Who are these players? I get you're being "optimistic". But this isn't optimism. This is some multiverse if we're lucky type stuff.

Well, Diaby does have elite linear measurables. The issue is that edge players’ effective athleticism is often turning, bending, torquing. not really linear.

The Pitt LB (I haven’t remembered how to spell their names yet…) is an undersized gap shooter who takes chances with boom/bust results. He won’t be as fast as DW45 (almost no one is) but he should be more instinctive.

Hey man, I can also be a CB/S hybrid. It won’t mean I’m a good CB/S hybrid!

[Snake]

All defense/offense drafts

Titans - 6 picks, 6 offensive players

2 tackles, a QB, RB, TE, and WR

…

Okay, only the Titans did it this year.

I wonder what Belichick is doing

3 CBs, 3 iOL, 2 WR, 1 PK, 1 P.

I don’t know if this means anything. But it feels very Bill.

Something I loved to see

Joey Porter Jr staying in state and going to his dad’s team.

Just feels like the kid is destined to kick some ass.

Something I hated to see

The eagles injecting more elite talent into their front 7. They took 3 Georgia defenders. The best defense in college football.

[real bucs fan]

Figured this would be a Bowles draft. Also figured Cody Mauch would be a target in the 2nd. We will see if these guys are good.

Kancey is very boom/bust. If his length doesn’t hurt him against NFL lineman he can be an all-pro. There’s also a chance he gets eaten alive almost every play in the NFL.

Mauch is quite safe I’d say, the real question is OT or guard. I think he’s a slam dunk quality guard, but there’s also a chance he can hang outside. We shall see.

For the rest of the class, it’s hard to gauge but I do like Ramirez, Spytek compared him to Shaq Barrett and I can see it. Just seems to have the right amount of what’s needed to be impactful as a pass rusher.

[Obsolete]

Mauch is quite safe I’d say, the real question is OT or guard. I think he’s a slam dunk quality guard, but there’s also a chance he can hang outside.

For what its worth i think JL has already said hes a guard.
But im sure the line is gonna get shuffled around a lot during TC and possibly during the season as well.

[mdb1958]

As always this was a draft where I wished I had more picks.

[GreatTimes]

I wish the Buc's had selected OT Harrison in the first round to go with Mauch in the second round. An offensive line with Wirfs and Harrison at OT's, Jensen at Center and Mauch at one of the guard spots is something I could get excited about. Let the best of the rest O'linemen battle it out for the final OG spot and backups.
In the 2020 SB the Chiefs lost to the Bucs because of poor offensive line play due to injuries. They immediately rectified that problem in the next off season by signing free agents and drafting an offensive lineman. They have been competitive every year since because of above average line play.
The Bucs should have done the same.

[Bootz]

My takeaway

I looked at this draft closer. This is Licht/Bowles trying to save their jobs.

1 thing you hope to find in a draft is upside. Where do these players have room to grow and develop? How can we mold them? How high is the ceiling?

Licht/Bowles know they don't have time to think long term and develop young players. So what did they do? They drafted veteran-ish players who in theory should be more mature.

4 of the 8 players we took will be 24 or older when the season starts. Josh Hayes apparently will turn 25 during the year. 2 others will be 23. That is no coincidence. But as a consequence they may already be close to being a finished product. And unless you're getting a hidden gem, what you see is usually what you get.

[Snake]

4 of the 8 players we took will be 24 or older when the season starts. Josh Hayes apparently will turn 25 during the year. 2 others will be 23

This is ludicrous. Thanks for looking into that @Bootz

[real bucs fan]

I think the biggest takeaway is that we added some serious juice to our pass rush. Kancey, Diaby, Ramirez, and Dennis all have serious burst getting after the QB, and all in different athletic packages. Will be fun to see who’s able to make an impact.

[GreatTimes]

I have to give a grade of F minus to all the "draft gurus, experts" on their mock drafts. Not one even got 50% correct. Kiper had QB Levis as his #1 pick. QB Levis fell to the second round. Abysmal mock drafts from all of them.

[Sdbucs]

We need to hit on some of these defense picks or our D is going to start getting pretty bad pretty quick in future seasons.

[Navybuc]

I have to give a grade of F minus to all the "draft gurus, experts" on their mock drafts. Not one even got 50% correct. Kiper had QB Levis as his #1 pick. QB Levis fell to the second round. Abysmal mock drafts from all of them.

Funny thing is if the Texans took Richardson, the Colts were going to take Levis, even above Stroud, per Irsay. So Stroud could have been the one to fall.

Once you get one mock pick wrong, you get them all wrong.

[Cheb]

My biggest takeaway from the draft is that we had eight opportunities to address offensive tackle, quarterback, and running back... and we never did. This is because:

A) We forgot those were team needs
B) There were literally no prospects on our board at those positions for when we picked
C) We truly went BPA instead of need
D) We thought those positions weren't a problem
or E) Some combination of the above

I think A is naive and B is statistically unlikely. Option C is admirable. D though? Now THAT'S something that gets my brainbucket churning.

Let's take the first position, offensive tackle. We know that Wirfs is one of the best players in the game at that position, so half of that problem is taken care of. I think it's a near certainty that he's moving to the left side. And on the right side, we have Feiler who has plenty of NFL experience, Goedeke who played his best ball at that spot last season, and Walton who did okay in relief duty last year. Which brings us to the question; would adding a rookie there make a big difference in how we compete this year? The Bucs' answer is obviously no, because we ignored it in the draft.

Same for quarterback. We obviously liked our top two dudes, at least enough to not want to use a pick to compete with and/or replace them.

The draft was also a vote of confidence for White, Vaughn, Edmonds, and the rest of that running back room. But that UDFA running back from Syracuse looks like a dude and I hope he makes the roster.

---

I think overall we had a solid draft. It's not lost on me that we spent half of our picks, 4 out of 8, on the defensive front 7, and all of them are skilled pass rushers. Not only are there snaps to go around in the front seven given our veteran losses there, but I think it's leaning into the strength of our team. Let's not forget, we finished tied for seventh in the NFL in the sacks, despite our goddamn nosetackle (talented though he may be) leading the team in sacks, and playing mostly in close games without large leads. Adding all that juice into the pass rush is only going to be a good thing moving forward, and I am happy we went that direction.

Josh Hayes on defense looks more like a teams guy and backup safety to me, but folks in the Bucs' pressers are making noises about him being a nickel. I worry about him holding up in man coverage from that position, but he seems to play intelligently and I hope he exceeds my expectations.

On offense I like our picks. Mauch looks like a dude who should fit this scheme like a glove. Durham has solid traits as a developmental tight end, and so does Palmer as a receiver. None of them are going to win Rookie of the Year and that's fine.

---

Overall I feel good about the team moving forward. They didn't make all the decisions I would have made, and I think we are starting to see Bowles and his priorities: we are going to be fast on defense and we are going to rush the passer with ferocity. As a Bucs fan, that's a very appealing philosophy. This draft was a get-right draft for our defensive front and I'm all about that.

Go Bucs.

[13F11B]

I personally think the need for running back was a mirage created by a shit offensive scheme further complicated by a play caller that was inept and predictable.

[Primeminister]

I personally think the need for running back was a mirage created by a shit offensive scheme further complicated by a play caller that was inept and predictable.

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

[mdb1958]

I personally think the need for running back was a mirage created by a shit offensive scheme further complicated by a play caller that was inept and predictable.

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

Only reason to write off Vaughn is whether he can keep hold of the ball.

[13F11B]

I personally think the need for running back was a mirage created by a shit offensive scheme further complicated by a play caller that was inept and predictable.

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

I agree with you. Great pick up UDFA. Kid was awesome for the Orange.

[mdb1958]

Did anyone pick up that CB from Fayetteville St?
Truman Jones Edge from Harvard?
Devin Haskins CB from Holy Cross?

[real bucs fan]

I personally think the need for running back was a mirage created by a shit offensive scheme further complicated by a play caller that was inept and predictable.

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

Apparently they found some dangerous heart condition in Tucker during the combine medicals. It’s not certain he ever plays football again. That said, worth the gamble as an UDFA absolutely- I had him as my 4th RB before that medical issue came to light.

[Babeinbucland]

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

Apparently they found some dangerous heart condition in Tucker during the combine medicals. It’s not certain he ever plays football again. That said, worth the gamble as an UDFA absolutely- I had him as my 4th RB before that medical issue came to light.

He is very fortunate they picked it up but oh my God his life is changed forever from what he had hoped and dreamed. And that’s just tragic

[mdb1958]

We should offer him a bigger bonus to come play for us instead of wasting away on Washington's bench!

https://bsubulldogs.com/sports/football ... pryor/6024


That's some crazy stats.

[13F11B]

Apparently, Sean was cleared.

https://twitter.com/seantucker2020

[Snake]

I can only get so erect.

[Babeinbucland]

I can only get so erect.

Thats what she said

[MJW]

My biggest takeaway from the draft is that we had eight opportunities to address offensive tackle, quarterback, and running back... and we never did. This is because:

A) We forgot those were team needs
B) There were literally no prospects on our board at those positions for when we picked
C) We truly went BPA instead of need
D) We thought those positions weren't a problem
or E) Some combination of the above

I think A is naive and B is statistically unlikely. Option C is admirable. D though? Now THAT'S something that gets my brainbucket churning.

Let's take the first position, offensive tackle. We know that Wirfs is one of the best players in the game at that position, so half of that problem is taken care of. I think it's a near certainty that he's moving to the left side. And on the right side, we have Feiler who has plenty of NFL experience, Goedeke who played his best ball at that spot last season, and Walton who did okay in relief duty last year. Which brings us to the question; would adding a rookie there make a big difference in how we compete this year? The Bucs' answer is obviously no, because we ignored it in the draft.

Same for quarterback. We obviously liked our top two dudes, at least enough to not want to use a pick to compete with and/or replace them.

The draft was also a vote of confidence for White, Vaughn, Edmonds, and the rest of that running back room. But that UDFA running back from Syracuse looks like a dude and I hope he makes the roster.

---

I think overall we had a solid draft. It's not lost on me that we spent half of our picks, 4 out of 8, on the defensive front 7, and all of them are skilled pass rushers. Not only are there snaps to go around in the front seven given our veteran losses there, but I think it's leaning into the strength of our team. Let's not forget, we finished tied for seventh in the NFL in the sacks, despite our goddamn nosetackle (talented though he may be) leading the team in sacks, and playing mostly in close games without large leads. Adding all that juice into the pass rush is only going to be a good thing moving forward, and I am happy we went that direction.

Josh Hayes on defense looks more like a teams guy and backup safety to me, but folks in the Bucs' pressers are making noises about him being a nickel. I worry about him holding up in man coverage from that position, but he seems to play intelligently and I hope he exceeds my expectations.

On offense I like our picks. Mauch looks like a dude who should fit this scheme like a glove. Durham has solid traits as a developmental tight end, and so does Palmer as a receiver. None of them are going to win Rookie of the Year and that's fine.

---

Overall I feel good about the team moving forward. They didn't make all the decisions I would have made, and I think we are starting to see Bowles and his priorities: we are going to be fast on defense and we are going to rush the passer with ferocity. As a Bucs fan, that's a very appealing philosophy. This draft was a get-right draft for our defensive front and I'm all about that.

Go Bucs.

On these positions -

I didn't think for a second we were going to draft a QB. I think it's probably C and D. I think OBP feels...okay?...about Mayfield, and might not even be ready to give up on Trask yet. I just don't think there was that guy for us.

OT surprised me a bit, but I think OBP feels fine about Wirfs at Left Tackle (I agree), and they're thinking one of the other tackles - Goedeke, Skule, Walton, etc - could be good enough at Right Tackle. I think we would have taken such a tackle if the board had fallen as such, but obviously it didn't for us.

RB, I think we were just smart. We could have drafted a guy in the 3rd who I (personally) don't think would have been better than Sean Tucker, an UDFA.

If there's one position, I wish we'd addressed, it's safety. Right now, we have 3 on the roster - a stud, a cheap free agent, and a practice squad guy. I really would have liked to have seen Ja'yir Brown or Jordan Battle with the Diaby pick.

[Lordnlkon]

My biggest takeaway from the draft is that we had eight opportunities to address offensive tackle, quarterback, and running back... and we never did. This is because:

A) We forgot those were team needs
B) There were literally no prospects on our board at those positions for when we picked
C) We truly went BPA instead of need
D) We thought those positions weren't a problem
or E) Some combination of the above

I think A is naive and B is statistically unlikely. Option C is admirable. D though? Now THAT'S something that gets my brainbucket churning.

Let's take the first position, offensive tackle. We know that Wirfs is one of the best players in the game at that position, so half of that problem is taken care of. I think it's a near certainty that he's moving to the left side. And on the right side, we have Feiler who has plenty of NFL experience, Goedeke who played his best ball at that spot last season, and Walton who did okay in relief duty last year. Which brings us to the question; would adding a rookie there make a big difference in how we compete this year? The Bucs' answer is obviously no, because we ignored it in the draft.

Same for quarterback. We obviously liked our top two dudes, at least enough to not want to use a pick to compete with and/or replace them.

The draft was also a vote of confidence for White, Vaughn, Edmonds, and the rest of that running back room. But that UDFA running back from Syracuse looks like a dude and I hope he makes the roster.

---

I think overall we had a solid draft. It's not lost on me that we spent half of our picks, 4 out of 8, on the defensive front 7, and all of them are skilled pass rushers. Not only are there snaps to go around in the front seven given our veteran losses there, but I think it's leaning into the strength of our team. Let's not forget, we finished tied for seventh in the NFL in the sacks, despite our goddamn nosetackle (talented though he may be) leading the team in sacks, and playing mostly in close games without large leads. Adding all that juice into the pass rush is only going to be a good thing moving forward, and I am happy we went that direction.

Josh Hayes on defense looks more like a teams guy and backup safety to me, but folks in the Bucs' pressers are making noises about him being a nickel. I worry about him holding up in man coverage from that position, but he seems to play intelligently and I hope he exceeds my expectations.

On offense I like our picks. Mauch looks like a dude who should fit this scheme like a glove. Durham has solid traits as a developmental tight end, and so does Palmer as a receiver. None of them are going to win Rookie of the Year and that's fine.

---

Overall I feel good about the team moving forward. They didn't make all the decisions I would have made, and I think we are starting to see Bowles and his priorities: we are going to be fast on defense and we are going to rush the passer with ferocity. As a Bucs fan, that's a very appealing philosophy. This draft was a get-right draft for our defensive front and I'm all about that.

Go Bucs.

On these positions -

I didn't think for a second we were going to draft a QB. I think it's probably C and D. I think OBP feels...okay?...about Mayfield, and might not even be ready to give up on Trask yet. I just don't think there was that guy for us.

OT surprised me a bit, but I think OBP feels fine about Wirfs at Left Tackle (I agree), and they're thinking one of the other tackles - Goedeke, Skule, Walton, etc - could be good enough at Right Tackle. I think we would have taken such a tackle if the board had fallen as such, but obviously it didn't for us.

RB, I think we were just smart. We could have drafted a guy in the 3rd who I (personally) don't think would have been better than Sean Tucker, an UDFA.

If there's one position, I wish we'd addressed, it's safety. Right now, we have 3 on the roster - a stud, a cheap free agent, and a practice squad guy. I really would have liked to have seen Ja'yir Brown or Jordan Battle with the Diaby pick.

For whatever it’s worth. I have a good friend who’s a Seahawks fan and he was pretty annoyed that, they didn’t re-sign Neal.

[Miller4Prez64]

My thoughts on the roster at this point are that the defense looks pretty good, but lacks depth big time. If healthy we will be top 15 at worst and probably closer to top 10.

Offense though is a total mess. I think straight up giving Rachaad White the RB1 job is complete nonsense and absolutely stupid by OBP. I’ve always felt his skillset fits better as a complimentary piece in a two back tandem, not as the main guy. He also didn’t do enough as a rookie to earn that. I hate giving young guys jobs they didn’t earn (just like we did with JTS). I get RB is a devalued position but we went too far with that this offseason, the fact it wasn’t a priority after a historically bad run game last year is a joke.

The line is still horrible, and now we have to worry if the one great guy we have can transition into a new position. TE room is not impressive at all, and I’m not sure how to feel about the receivers. If Godwin stays healthy, I still feel great about him. Idk about Mike though, he was pretty bad last year outside of one game and his skillset has always been one that isn’t likely to transition well as he ages. I hope I’m wrong and he bounces back though, he’s a legend. Everything behind those two is pretty awful. I’m not optimistic about this offense at all, and we put all our eggs in the basket of some first time play caller being able to wave a magic wand over our problems. Hopefully he can, but I’m not optimistic.

[Obsolete]

Idk about Mike though, he was pretty bad last year outside of one game and his skillset has always been one that isn’t likely to transition well as he ages. I hope I’m wrong and he bounces back though, he’s a legend.

How? He doesnt rely on speed, he relies on his size, unless he shrinks hes going to be fine.

[Primeminister]

Maybe, but also Licht signed UDFA Sean Tucker who some saw as the 3rd best RB in this class. I think before season’s end that kid will push White for playing time.

Apparently they found some dangerous heart condition in Tucker during the combine medicals. It’s not certain he ever plays football again. That said, worth the gamble as an UDFA absolutely- I had him as my 4th RB before that medical issue came to light.

I read that before the draft he was medically cleared to play. In the aftermath of Demar Hamlin I think teams are understandably cautious about any heart condition.

[mdb1958]

Got a question, is Ezekiel Elliott and Leonard Fournette done or is getting big money done?

[Snake]

Ezekiel Elliott posted some workout videos recently. He looks very slow in the agility drills.