Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season

[Snake]

Brutal.

[_MB_]

Over.

[Doctor]

Let them cheer

[Snake]

Discussion fodder:

If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)

The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.

This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.

[Doctor]

Wtf is fake compete?

Since 2000 just as many Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls as #1 seeds.

[Snake]

Wtf is fake compete?

Since 2000 just as many Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls as #1 seeds.

Going 8-9, winning an awful division, and getting btfo in the first round was so awesome. Let’s do it again.

[real bucs fan]

Wtf is fake compete?

Since 2000 just as many Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls as #1 seeds.

Going 8-9, winning an awful division, and getting btfo in the first round was so awesome. Let’s do it again.

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

[Snake]

Going 8-9, winning an awful division, and getting btfo in the first round was so awesome. Let’s do it again.

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

Hey Siri,

>add “new offense”
>subtract “GOAT”
>play “Trash/Mayfield”
>expect “better results”

Oh no, my phone exploded.

[Bootz]

Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?

[BucsNBills]

I'm betting the under. Hoping for it anyway.

[acmillis]

Discussion fodder:

If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)

The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.

This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.

and you draw this conclusion from what evidence?

[Kress]

Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?

It's also a great way to draw attention away from the people doing the firing.

[_MB_]

Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

GETTING WORSE IS HOW YOU GET BETTER. LOSING IS THE PATH TO WINNING

[real bucs fan]

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

Hey Siri,

>add “new offense”
>subtract “GOAT”
>play “Trash/Mayfield”
>expect “better results”

Oh no, my phone exploded.

Luckily for us, it isn’t that simple.

The O was broken last year. Arians scheme requires elite line play and execution and we didn’t get it.

The new scheme might not have best offence in the league upside like Arians does, but the floor is a lot higher than what we saw last year. We will be better offensively than we were last year despite losing Brady. The D should be better too with Shaq back and hopefully an improved pass rush. Imagine the Seattle offence with Bowles D. That’s the upside for this season.

[Snake]

Discussion fodder:

If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)

The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.

This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.

and you draw this conclusion from what evidence?

Trask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.

Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.

It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.

[Doctor]

Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?

Shhhh. Stop making sense.

Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND

GETTING WORSE IS HOW YOU GET BETTER. LOSING IS THE PATH TO WINNING

MB is doing it right.

[acmillis]

and you draw this conclusion from what evidence?

Trask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.

Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.

It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.

Vegas also had INDY winning 10 games last year, Broncos winning 10, Rams winning 10.5, etc.

Vegas is a guessing game just like Trask is, but at least give Trask a shot before we bury the kid.

[Buc2]

Trask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.

Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.

It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.

Vegas also had INDY winning 10 games last year, Broncos winning 10, Rams winning 10.5, etc.

Vegas is a guessing game just like Trask is, but at least give Trask a shot before we bury the kid.

That is not how fandom works.

[Snake]

He’s 25 years old.

[Doctor]

Draft groupies as dogmatic zealots.

There are plenty of ways to get a SB winning QB. Sometimes you can sign them as a Free Agent the way the Saints and Bucs did. Sometimes you can trade for one like the Rams and Jets. And yes sometimes you can draft one.

You'd think a battle between a groomed 2nd round pick and a former first overall would be near the top of the list of QB situations one would want to be in when in search of a QB, and you would be right. But groupies believe in just the one way, Burrow or bust. Anything else is met with the vigor of the westboro baptist church at a Pride parade.

[acmillis]

He’s 25 years old.

So you're saying he is super young, right?

[Bootz]

He’s 25 years old.

And he still needs more time.

[Navybuc]

I like the over 7.5 on Chicago just because that division is going to get worse and Chicago will be improved with already some of the moves they’ve made and all their draft picks.

Over 9.5 on Jets because Rodgers has some really good weapons around him in NY and I like Saleh as a coach. Feels like 11-6 year.

Under 7.5 on Atl because I don’t think Ridder is that good and they have tons of holes. If anyone needs Lamar, it’s them.

Over 10.5 on Jax. To me, they actually gonna rival for the #1 seed And have putrid division. Adding Ridley is huge and TL is only getting better.

I think TBs total about right. I’d lean under if I had to, but the NFCS is so weak, they may be able to squeak out 7 wins.

[MJW]

You'd think a battle between a groomed 2nd round pick and a former first overall would be near the top of the list of QB situations one would want to be in when in search of a QB, and you would be right.

[MJW]

I like the over 7.5 on Chicago just because that division is going to get worse and Chicago will be improved with already some of the moves they’ve made and all their draft picks.

Over 9.5 on Jets because Rodgers has some really good weapons around him in NY and I like Saleh as a coach. Feels like 11-6 year.

Under 7.5 on Atl because I don’t think Ridder is that good and they have tons of holes. If anyone needs Lamar, it’s them.

Over 10.5 on Jax. To me, they actually gonna rival for the #1 seed And have putrid division. Adding Ridley is huge and TL is only getting better.

I think TBs total about right. I’d lean under if I had to, but the NFCS is so weak, they may be able to squeak out 7 wins.

That's a big number for the Jaguars. I realize they won 9 last year, and everyone is bullish on Lawrence and the new regime. But I expect the AFC South to be tougher this year. The Jags were literally the only team in the division last year with a functional quarterback. That won't be the case again.

I'll pound the hell out of the under on the Saints. When the crap has Derek Carr elevated anything? The QBs they played last year were statistically basically the same as Carr.

I'll take the over for the Giants. Why would they regress? The division, meanwhile, might.

[MJW]

Going 8-9, winning an awful division, and getting btfo in the first round was so awesome. Let’s do it again.

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.

But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.

Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.

This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.

[Grahamburn]

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.

But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.

Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.

This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.

Are the teams in our division any better? They are starting either a rookie or Andy Dalton, a 2nd year player with 4 starts, and a re-tread 10 year vet that has only made the playoffs twice who you yourself has said isn't much better than Andy Dalton. We're all crop dusting the same VW bug here. And, generally, the NFC doesn't look all that great while we also play the AFC South this year. Also, not great. A few things break right and it could be an 8-10 win season.

Tom Brady did not look like the greatest player of all time last year. He looked like a scared long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Maybe Logan Hall and JTS can step up and into more prevalent impactful roles. Does Shaq come back? Maybe they hit a Wirfs-esque dinger with the 19th pick. Canales shakes the rust off Baker. A lot of positive things could happen.

It's entirely feasible that the 2023 offense is exponentially better than last year's.

[Grahamburn]

Just want to also point out that 9 of our games are against teams in those 3 lower tiers.

[GreatTimes]

Obviously, Las Vegas deems NO signing Carr is a lot better than the Bucs signing Mayfield.

[MJW]

You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.

But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.

Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.

This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.

Are the teams in our division any better? They are starting either a rookie or Andy Dalton, a 2nd year player with 4 starts, and a re-tread 10 year vet that has only made the playoffs twice who you yourself has said isn't much better than Andy Dalton. We're all crop dusting the same VW bug here. And, generally, the NFC doesn't look all that great while we also play the AFC South this year. Also, not great. A few things break right and it could be an 8-10 win season.

Tom Brady did not look like the greatest player of all time last year. He looked like a scared long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Maybe Logan Hall and JTS can step up and into more prevalent impactful roles. Does Shaq come back? Maybe they hit a Wirfs-esque dinger with the 19th pick. Canales shakes the rust off Baker. A lot of positive things could happen.

It's entirely feasible that the 2023 offense is exponentially better than last year's.

The Saints went from Dalton/Winston to Derek Carr. It's debatable how much of an upgrade that is, but it is an upgrade.
The Panthers are going from Darnold/Mayfield (lol)/Walker to Stroud or Bryce Young. That's an upgrade, rookie or otherwise. And so is Rhule/Wilks to Reich.
The Falcons are going from Mariota to 2nd year Ridder. Almost certainly an upgrade based on Mariota's play.

Yes, maybe Logan Hall is Reggie White. Maybe Shaq (who was invisible before he got hurt) rebounds in his 30s when he was already declining. ETC, ETC.

Prayers. Not reasons for optimism. Not based on anything real. We could also say that maybe ANY team's rookies are future Hall of Famers, so on and so forth.

This is roster has lots of holes, absolutely no depth, going from Tom Brady to Baker Mayfield, still coached by Toilet Bowles, and we won 8 games last year in one of the worst divisions in recent memory. And it's lost talent, not added it. I don't see any of that as controversial.

And frankly, if the "optimistic" scenario really relies on our opponents being even shittier, it's not actually optimism, unless you see a repeat of last year's playoff debacle as a positive outcome.

[MJW]

There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.

Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.

Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.

[mdb1958]

There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.

Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.

Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.

Have you gotten yourself on that medical marijuana?

[Grahamburn]

There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.

Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.

Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.

What is "good?" Super Bowl contender? No. Probably not unless there's some version of Baker Mayfield we've never seen before. Competitive every week and possibly push for a playoff spot? Sure, if a few things go their way.

[real bucs fan]

If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.

But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.

You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.

But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.

Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.

This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.

Well if things go south, then we pivot and rebuild completely. But I’m happy with the moves. If we had brought back Leftwich and signed Jimmy G I’d be feeling differently, but I really like the combo of Canales and Mayfield. There’s potential here.

[GreatTimes]

What improvements have the Bucs made so far this off season? Because the Bucs had their backs against the salary cap wall, they were unable to make offers to Free Agent offensive tackles. Will the young offensive linemen make drastic steps forward? I hope so, otherwise this team is doomed.