Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Jonny]

I think you are off base with your over optimism, but I like your optimism. The reason we cannot be Seattle or better has to do with the psyche of QB position. Once a QB loses confidence and has a bad stretch lasting as long as two years, for whatever reason, it is usually probably over for him.

Interesting. How long was Geno Smith's "bad stretch?"

"Usually" means often. I went a step further and wrote "usually probably" which is both redundant and shabby way of writing.

Baker Mayfield usually probably won't turn things around like Geno Smith. But it is not a guarantee. Do I make sense now?

[Grahamburn]

Interesting. How long was Geno Smith's "bad stretch?"

"Usually" means often. I went a step further and wrote "usually probably" which is both redundant and shabby way of writing.

Baker Mayfield usually probably won't turn things around like Geno Smith. But it is not a guarantee. Do I make sense now?

Why would he usually probably not turn things around? Baker is much younger than Geno. He’s had much more career success, and more recent and better success, than Geno. Better draft pedigree.

I’m excited to see what Dave Canales can do for Baker Mayfield and this offense. We just landed a former #1 overall pick for next to nothing. We should be stoked. There are posters around here who’d prefer to tank a whole season just to draft Baker fucking Mayfield.

[real bucs fan]

Exactly. It's not as easy as the offense - Brady + Baker = Better?

This offense is going to be completely different. Is it going to be "better"? Well hard to top what we were in 2020 but better than last year, sure.
I see no reason why we cannot be Seattle or better. I mean anyone picking Geno over Baker before last year? A 25 PPG offense is all we really need to give this defense a chance to win games for us.

I think you are off base with your over optimism, but I like your optimism. The reason we cannot be Seattle or better has to do with the psyche of QB position. Once a QB loses confidence and has a bad stretch lasting as long as two years, for whatever reason, it is usually probably over for him.

If losing confidence is what we have to worry about with Baker, I think he’ll be fine lol

[real bucs fan]

Lotta folks forgetting how good 2020 Baker was. We will see how it goes, but I believe in Canales and I believe in Baker. Is that faith misplaced? Only time will tell, but I think it could be a perfect marriage.

Also, if you can’t be optimistic in the off-season you should do yourself a favour and find a new hobby.

[MJW]

Lotta folks forgetting how good 2020 Baker was. We will see how it goes, but I believe in Canales and I believe in Baker. Is that faith misplaced? Only time will tell, but I think it could be a perfect marriage.

Also, if you can’t be optimistic in the off-season you should do yourself a favour and find a new hobby.

If this is how we're playing it, we should trade for 2019 Lamar. Dude was literal league MVP.

We can see if they wanna throw in some 2014 Justin Houston too.

Also, I'll bet a nickel you didn't know who Dave Canales was before we hired him. The word you're looking for is not "optimism."

[Bootz]

Lotta folks forgetting how good 2020 Baker was. We will see how it goes, but I believe in Canales and I believe in Baker. Is that faith misplaced? Only time will tell, but I think it could be a perfect marriage.

Also, if you can’t be optimistic in the off-season you should do yourself a favour and find a new hobby.

People aren't forgetting about 2020 Baker. They just realize that 2020 was 3 seasons ago. Time moves on. And its not as if what he did in 2020 was exactly groundbreaking.



65.5 QBR (10th best)
95.9 passer rating (15th)
3563 yards (18th)
26 TD passes (Tied with 4 others for 13th)
62.8% completion (30th)
7.3 yards/attempt (16th)
486 pass attempts (17th)

All told, he was basically a plus game manager. Mostly middle of the pack. Not terribly bad in anything but not a standout either.

[Snake]

People also like that season because he limited his INTs. Also an anomaly in the grand scheme of his career.

Teams are convinced that was his peak and unlikely to be replicated.

[real bucs fan]

2020 Baker matters because that was his last healthy season in a stable situation. 2021 he tore his shoulder week 2 and played the whole year through it. Also had a knee injury that year that required surgery that he played through.

2021 he was with the dumpster fire panthers who fired their coach mid season and blew up their team to tank.

He’s healthy now and in a stable situation again. I expect he will return to 2020 Baker. And yes, 2020 Baker was not prime Peyton Manning, but that’s not what we’re asking him to be either.

[acmillis]

"Usually" means often. I went a step further and wrote "usually probably" which is both redundant and shabby way of writing.

Baker Mayfield usually probably won't turn things around like Geno Smith. But it is not a guarantee. Do I make sense now?

Why would he usually probably not turn things around? Baker is much younger than Geno. He’s had much more career success, and more recent and better success, than Geno. Better draft pedigree.

I’m excited to see what Dave Canales can do for Baker Mayfield and this offense. We just landed a former #1 overall pick for next to nothing. We should be stoked. There are posters around here who’d prefer to tank a whole season just to draft Baker fucking Mayfield.

The saints “landed” a former #1 overall top. Shouldn’t they be very excited?

No….oh, okay.

[MJW]

Lotta folks forgetting how good 2020 Baker was. We will see how it goes, but I believe in Canales and I believe in Baker. Is that faith misplaced? Only time will tell, but I think it could be a perfect marriage.

Also, if you can’t be optimistic in the off-season you should do yourself a favour and find a new hobby.

People aren't forgetting about 2020 Baker. They just realize that 2020 was 3 seasons ago. Time moves on. And its not as if what he did in 2020 was exactly groundbreaking.



65.5 QBR (10th best)
95.9 passer rating (15th)
3563 yards (18th)
26 TD passes (Tied with 4 others for 13th)
62.8% completion (30th)
7.3 yards/attempt (16th)
486 pass attempts (17th)

All told, he was basically a plus game manager. Mostly middle of the pack. Not terribly bad in anything but not a standout either.

Facts.

Baker's 2020 season gets lumped in with Lamar's 2019 or Mahomes's 2018, because they were all supposedly "coming out" seasons for ascendant young quarterbacks. Except the other two guys had literal MVP seasons. Baker's was...fine? It would be a solid year for guys like Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr. It was mostly exciting because of Cleveland's big year, and because it was evidence Mayfield could play in the league. That's really it.

Yet not only are we pretending it was exceptional, we're pretending that 3 years and 3 teams later, he's going to not only replicate it, he's going to improve on it.

[Grahamburn]

Why would he usually probably not turn things around? Baker is much younger than Geno. He’s had much more career success, and more recent and better success, than Geno. Better draft pedigree.

I’m excited to see what Dave Canales can do for Baker Mayfield and this offense. We just landed a former #1 overall pick for next to nothing. We should be stoked. There are posters around here who’d prefer to tank a whole season just to draft Baker fucking Mayfield.

The saints “landed” a former #1 overall top. Shouldn’t they be very excited?

No….oh, okay.

Jameis played well for them under Payton. 5-2 as a starter. They likely beat us for the division that year if White doesn't horse collar him and tear his ACL.

[acmillis]

The saints “landed” a former #1 overall top. Shouldn’t they be very excited?

No….oh, okay.

Jameis played well for them under Payton. 5-2 as a starter. They likely beat us for the division that year if White doesn't horse collar him and tear his ACL.

But he’s on their team now, shouldn’t they be excited?

[Grahamburn]

Jameis played well for them under Payton. 5-2 as a starter. They likely beat us for the division that year if White doesn't horse collar him and tear his ACL.

But he’s on their team now, shouldn’t they be excited?

Will you be excited if Baker starts the season 5-2?

[real bucs fan]

People aren't forgetting about 2020 Baker. They just realize that 2020 was 3 seasons ago. Time moves on. And its not as if what he did in 2020 was exactly groundbreaking.



65.5 QBR (10th best)
95.9 passer rating (15th)
3563 yards (18th)
26 TD passes (Tied with 4 others for 13th)
62.8% completion (30th)
7.3 yards/attempt (16th)
486 pass attempts (17th)

All told, he was basically a plus game manager. Mostly middle of the pack. Not terribly bad in anything but not a standout either.

Facts.

Baker's 2020 season gets lumped in with Lamar's 2019 or Mahomes's 2018, because they were all supposedly "coming out" seasons for ascendant young quarterbacks. Except the other two guys had literal MVP seasons. Baker's was...fine? It would be a solid year for guys like Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr. It was mostly exciting because of Cleveland's big year, and because it was evidence Mayfield could play in the league. That's really it.

Yet not only are we pretending it was exceptional, we're pretending that 3 years and 3 teams later, he's going to not only replicate it, he's going to improve on it.

No one is comparing Baker to Mahomes lol give me a break. Even the Brees chatter there was no equivalency drawn. The hope is he can be similar to Geno last year who succeeded in the same system.

[Doctor]

[Al Bundy]

Lotta folks forgetting how good 2020 Baker was. We will see how it goes, but I believe in Canales and I believe in Baker. Is that faith misplaced? Only time will tell, but I think it could be a perfect marriage.

Also, if you can’t be optimistic in the off-season you should do yourself a favour and find a new hobby.

If this is how we're playing it, we should trade for 2019 Lamar. Dude was literal league MVP.

We can see if they wanna throw in some 2014 Justin Houston too.

Also, I'll bet a nickel you didn't know who Dave Canales was before we hired him. The word you're looking for is not "optimism."

So, what should the Buccaneers have done? Hired a lame duck coach to replace Bowles with, go 1-16 and reset everything and hope and pray the #1 overall pick pans out? The #1 overall pick for the Bucs has panned out exactly one time. I like this approach, as this team can still win the division and we are going to see what a good OC can do here.

[Al Bundy]

The saints “landed” a former #1 overall top. Shouldn’t they be very excited?

No….oh, okay.

Jameis played well for them under Payton. 5-2 as a starter. They likely beat us for the division that year if White doesn't horse collar him and tear his ACL.

No they don't.

[Snake]

If this is how we're playing it, we should trade for 2019 Lamar. Dude was literal league MVP.

We can see if they wanna throw in some 2014 Justin Houston too.

Also, I'll bet a nickel you didn't know who Dave Canales was before we hired him. The word you're looking for is not "optimism."

So, what should the Buccaneers have done? Hired a lame duck coach to replace Bowles with, go 1-16 and reset everything and hope and pray the #1 overall pick pans out? The #1 overall pick for the Bucs has panned out exactly one time. I like this approach, as this team can still win the division and we are going to see what a good OC can do here.

even if this team wins the division (press X for doubt) it’ll get BTFO in the first round again. Almost a certainty.

How is this guy a “good” OC when he’s only OC’d 17 years ago at the high school level…we can’t say that yet.

Here’s the potential problems with the current approach:

Baker Mayfield isn’t good. At best, he’s an average starter in the NFL. With a floor that is much worse. If he’s average this season and goes 7-10 or 9-8, do you really want to re-sign him and just hope he doesn’t become a pumpkin again? Commit to average when good to great QB play defines contenders now.

If Baker starts the entire season, it means we’ve confirmed Trask is a bum (or injured).

Major roster turnover after this season is likely. You have a mid-first pick, not a top one. No one is trading down if there is an elite QB prospect sitting there.

Back to the well again for QBs.

[Doctor]

Canales playcalling is absolutely one of the scariest unknowns of this season. But there's nothing we can really do about that but see how he does.

[MJW]

If this is how we're playing it, we should trade for 2019 Lamar. Dude was literal league MVP.

We can see if they wanna throw in some 2014 Justin Houston too.

Also, I'll bet a nickel you didn't know who Dave Canales was before we hired him. The word you're looking for is not "optimism."

So, what should the Buccaneers have done? Hired a lame duck coach to replace Bowles with, go 1-16 and reset everything and hope and pray the #1 overall pick pans out? The #1 overall pick for the Bucs has panned out exactly one time. I like this approach, as this team can still win the division and we are going to see what a good OC can do here.

No, the Buccaneers should have hired a coach they trust to rebuild, which is exactly what they're going to do after we wasted 17 more games with Toilet Bowles. That's the point. Not the #1 pick.

In the meantime, FUCK YEAH! Another 8-9 division championship. FUCK. YEAH. Screw this Lombardi shit. You'll be telling your grandkids about that two year stretch where we won 45% of our games and lost by 70 points in the wildcard round twice. How our ass taste, NFL?

[acmillis]

But he’s on their team now, shouldn’t they be excited?

Will you be excited if Baker starts the season 5-2?

Sure will, but I’d be willing to bet my mortgage it’ll be more 2-5 Baker than 5-2.

[BucsNBills]

So, what should the Buccaneers have done? Hired a lame duck coach to replace Bowles with, go 1-16 and reset everything and hope and pray the #1 overall pick pans out? The #1 overall pick for the Bucs has panned out exactly one time. I like this approach, as this team can still win the division and we are going to see what a good OC can do here.

No, the Buccaneers should have hired a coach they trust to rebuild, which is exactly what they're going to do after we wasted 17 more games with Toilet Bowles. That's the point. Not the #1 pick.

In the meantime, FUCK YEAH! Another 8-9 division championship. FUCK. YEAH. Screw this Lombardi shit. You'll be telling your grandkids about that two year stretch where we won 45% of our games and lost by 70 points in the wildcard round twice. How our ass taste, NFL?

Yeah this is why I wanted to a complete rebuid as well. Because I tell you what, next year when Maye and Williams are putting on a show at the combine and we're stuck picking 11th or 12th in the draft with no hope of getting either, I think many will be singing a different tune about how we handled the roster and coaching situation in 2023.

[Doctor]

Why no hope? Teams trade up all the time. Also, are they the last good QBs to come out? Lastly, miss me with the newest season of hero worship. The 2018 class was suppose to be legendary and it was duds. This is often the case more than not.

Maybe Caleb isn't even the top pick. It's very rare for these predictions to stick. Maybe K.J. Jefferson overtakes him with a killer year. Maybe Quinn Ewers is the best of the class and is taken at pick 17.

Exactly. These draft groupies are stuck in a loser franchise mentality that is all about sacrificing a FO and staff to draft a rookie savior. It's gross. Can you imagine Baltimore or Pittsburgh doing something that like?

Todd Bowles has 3 rings. Jason Licht has 2. Bruce Arians sitting in the FO has another 3. Our new OC has 1.

We know this group of guys can win because they are fucking winners. They literally did it for us two years ago.
Are we going to be a little lean for a bit? Sure. But when we are not, holy hell, why would anyone would want to swap out this staff for some cool college coach and some other team personnel guy is beyond me.

Yeah, let's clean house of all these losers and go get.... college cool guy.

[Grahamburn]

No, the Buccaneers should have hired a coach they trust to rebuild, which is exactly what they're going to do after we wasted 17 more games with Toilet Bowles. That's the point. Not the #1 pick.

In the meantime, FUCK YEAH! Another 8-9 division championship. FUCK. YEAH. Screw this Lombardi shit. You'll be telling your grandkids about that two year stretch where we won 45% of our games and lost by 70 points in the wildcard round twice. How our ass taste, NFL?

Yeah this is why I wanted to a complete rebuid as well. Because I tell you what, next year when Maye and Williams are putting on a show at the combine and we're stuck picking 11th or 12th in the draft with no hope of getting either, I think many will be singing a different tune about how we handled the roster and coaching situation in 2023.

Because those guys are so much more of a sure thing than Baker Mayfield was? Or Jameis Winston? Marcus Mariota.. Zack Wilson, Sam Darnold. On and freaking on... Bust after tragic bust. Hell, how many guys have been drafted by the goddamn Jets in the last 20 years and they're falling all over themselves trying to get a guy for one desperate season who dropped all the way to pick 24.

You do not have to draft in the top 5 to get good players.

[Buc2]

People aren't forgetting about 2020 Baker. They just realize that 2020 was 3 seasons ago. Time moves on. And its not as if what he did in 2020 was exactly groundbreaking.



65.5 QBR (10th best)
95.9 passer rating (15th)
3563 yards (18th)
26 TD passes (Tied with 4 others for 13th)
62.8% completion (30th)
7.3 yards/attempt (16th)
486 pass attempts (17th)

All told, he was basically a plus game manager. Mostly middle of the pack. Not terribly bad in anything but not a standout either.

Facts.

Baker's 2020 season gets lumped in with Lamar's 2019 or Mahomes's 2018, because they were all supposedly "coming out" seasons for ascendant young quarterbacks. Except the other two guys had literal MVP seasons. Baker's was...fine? It would be a solid year for guys like Kirk Cousins and Derek Carr. It was mostly exciting because of Cleveland's big year, and because it was evidence Mayfield could play in the league. That's really it.

Yet not only are we pretending it was exceptional, we're pretending that 3 years and 3 teams later, he's going to not only replicate it, he's going to improve on it.

There are only 3 people here pretending BM will amount to anything.

[Phantom]

Happy Place!

https://nypost.com/2023/03/17/baker-may ... -deal/amp/

[BucsNBills]

Why no hope? Teams trade up all the time. Also, are they the last good QBs to come out? Lastly, miss me with the newest season of hero worship. The 2018 class was suppose to be legendary and it was duds. This is often the case more than not.

Maybe Caleb isn't even the top pick. It's very rare for these predictions to stick. Maybe K.J. Jefferson overtakes him with a killer year. Maybe Quinn Ewers is the best of the class and is taken at pick 17.

Exactly. These draft groupies are stuck in a loser franchise mentality that is all about sacrificing a FO and staff to draft a rookie savior. It's gross. Can you imagine Baltimore or Pittsburgh doing something that like?

Todd Bowles has 3 rings. Jason Licht has 2. Bruce Arians sitting in the FO has another 3. Our new OC has 1.

We know this group of guys can win because they are fucking winners. They literally did it for us two years ago.
Are we going to be a little lean for a bit? Sure. But when we are not, holy hell, why would anyone would want to swap out this staff for some cool college coach and some other team personnel guy is beyond me.

Yeah, let's clean house of all these losers and go get.... college cool guy.

Idk man, you just seem desperate to eek out 6-8 wins this year as some sort of moral victory so we can once again be outside of the top end talent. I'm sure you'll get your wish and this time next year when we're recovering from our 7-10 season and still without a quarterback, we can all sleep easy knowing we really tried to win every single game and didn't try to tank.

[Doctor]

Ugh, you savior groupies are insufferable. I'd much rather get back to 2019 shape and still be looking for a QB to plug in than to 2014 shape where the #1 pick wasn't the magic bullet.... again.

There are a lot of other ways to find a QB, for one QB competitions actually work!
People are acting like Nick Sirianni didn't call for a QB competition and was very openly hesitant on Hurts. Or that the Seahawks had Matt Flynn battling with Russell Wilson who would go on to win it. Veteran Kurt Warner beat out the highly polished QB savior Matt Leinart and in doing so went to a Super Bowl. Or Geno Smith and Drew Lock last year. You're likely going to see one between Purdy and Lance this year, should they just throw it away instead?

BOTH our championship QBs were cast aways from other teams. Brees was a Free Agent. Stafford and Rodgers were traded for. As was Watson and Jimmy G (who was 3 min away from a ring).

I get romanticizing the rookie savior. Five years of the rookie QB contract cheat code with 15 years at the franchise after. It's sexy.
But not only do you actually NOT have to be a bad team for that to happen (12-4 drafted Mahomes, 9-7 drafted Allen, 10-6 drafted Lamar), but historically speaking the top QB actually fails. Probably because they went to a shit team.

It pays way more to be a GOOD team first, THEN go and get your guy. Who you can get via draft, or trade, or FA.

[Phantom]

You don’t give up, Doctor…

Tell em!

[BucsNBills]

Good/Promising AFC QBs:
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Tua
Trevor Lawrence
Aaron Rodgers(soon)

Good/Promising NFC QBs:
Jalen Hurts
I guess Justin Fields
Kyler Murray
I'm reaching here but, Dak

So, when we get back to our 2019 state, in idk around 2025 or 2026, which one of the above QBs will be available to swoop in and be the missing piece? I guess the Bengals are going to grow tired of their winning ways and release/trade Burrow to us? Maybe Rodgers will still be playing at age 44 and we can have another Brady situation?

It's not a savior complex, it's recognizing that these QBs are lottery tickets and the best shot at having one of them land big is to get one of the top prospects. Caleb Williams can absolutely be a bust, nobody is saying he's this guaranteed thing. But express to me a better QB option in 2024 for the Bucs that is both A, feasible, and B, objectively better than Williams? And as you said, of course another QB can emerge and overtake Williams, but then how the fuck do we gain access to this new mythical QB that shows up when we're stuck in the middle of the 1st round in QB purgatory.

It's just asinine at this point to argue that winning 6 or 7 games in 2023 is the best outcome for the Bucs. Want to know which team that does that consistently? The Washington Redskins. You know, those Ron Rivera led squads that always "play tough", and are always trying to win, "well coached", disciplined, and always scrambling for a quarterback. Hell, they even drafted the "right way" by loading up on the Dline with all those 1st round picks. And that has amounted to fuck all because they can't get a QB.

There's no functional difference between winning 1 game or winning 6 or 7 other than losing out on the full selection of elite draft prospects that are available to those that end up drafting in the top 3 or 4.

But yeah, let's replace rookie savior with veteran savior and hope for the best. I can't wait to see Justin Herbert or Josh Allen leave their teams and lead the Bucs to Lombardi #3.

[Miller4Prez64]

It’s not about tanking for a QB, it’s setting up the roster and cap to be competitive with a new QB. In 2019, we had a competive and young roster with cap space. In 2023, we have an aging and expensive roster.

We would love to be in a situation to go grab a Lamar and still have the pieces to contend but we aren’t. Getting a high pick is a bonus to rebuilding, it’s not the ultimate goal.

[Doctor]

I'm not looking to win 6 games. I'm looking to getting back to the post season. You never throw away your ticket to the dance, especially when we've seen dudes like Foles and Eli win prom king.

Also, AGAIN, you seem to overlook that half your list- Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Rodgers, Hurts- are guys that were drafted to WINNING teams.
FFS why can't we shoot for replicating one of THOSE teams instead of being the freaking Jaguars and Browns?

[Bootz]

I love how people say it's not tanking then proceed to name the protected #1 overall pick as being what our focus should be.

[mdb1958]

Name a player who can make our roster as the 252nd pick.

[Bootz]

Name a player who can make our roster as the 252nd pick.

Karl Brooks