An exercise in love: Bucs sign lamar?

[Grahamburn]

I’ll go on record as being against it.

Why

Contract demands.
2 1st round picks.
1-3 playoff record.
Unable to finish the last two seasons.
As he ages his effectiveness as a runner will continue to dissipate.

I just think it’s a poor decision and direction as a franchise that won’t ultimately lead to a championship.

[Bootz]

Contract demands.

Tell me you never want to have a franchise QB without telling me you never want to have a franchise QB.

2 1st round picks.

:See above. Much worse has been had for much more.

1-3 playoff record.

I suppose you'd prefer a QB who's never been to the post season before instead of one that's been there 4 times...

Unable to finish the last two seasons.

What is this, an omen? Does this mean he won't ever finish seasons?

As he ages his effectiveness as a runner will continue to dissipate.

I mean name me a player for which this is not true..They all age.

I just think it’s a poor decision and direction as a franchise that won’t ultimately lead to a championship.

But Kyle Trask & Drew Lock will lead us to a ring? Good one, kiddo.

[Navybuc]

Lamar in Tampa.

That would be a crazy thing!

And unrealistic. It’s not happening. Rick Stroud even said today on radio there’s no chance…and he actually talks to Jason Licht.

[Bootz]

Lamar in Tampa.

That would be a crazy thing!

And unrealistic. It’s not happening. Rick Stroud even said today on radio there’s no chance…and he actually talks to Jason Licht.

Since you're so hell bent on us dropping the Lamar Jackson discussion....On a message board.....Why don't you lead a new discussion for everybody. I'm sure you're past sick and tired of telling everybody that it ain't happening....

[Babeinbucland]

Lol then there is this:



And this:

[Bootz]

Oh so it seems Old Navy has a history of being all "get off my lawn" about acquiring Uber talented QBs.

[Navybuc]

And unrealistic. It’s not happening. Rick Stroud even said today on radio there’s no chance…and he actually talks to Jason Licht.

Since you're so hell bent on us dropping the Lamar Jackson discussion....On a message board.....Why don't you lead a new discussion for everybody. I'm sure you're past sick and tired of telling everybody that it ain't happening....

I’m sick and tired of you telling everyone he’s coming here when there’s no chance in hell he is. Seriously give it up.

[Navybuc]

Lol then there is this:



And this:

Babe the fact you would go back three years on an old board to dig that up makes me scared you’re obsessed with me or something. You’re not outside my house right now are you?

And hey, crow tastes good every now and then. That time couldn’t be sweeter.

[Babeinbucland]

Lol then there is this:



And this:

Babe the fact you would go back three years on an old board to dig that up makes me scared you’re obsessed with me or something. You’re not outside my house right now are you?

And hey, crow tastes good every now and then. That time couldn’t be sweeter.

That was truly a pitiful Hail Mary. Too bad it was epically overthrown.

[Deja Entendu]

Jackson has played a full season once in 5 seasons, and it was his rookie year. He’s coming off back to back seasons where he’s missed the end of the year/playoff and his last three season all ended with him being unable to play. There’s a reason to be concerned about his durability.

This is very misleading. 2019 & 2020, he played 15 out of 16 games and only missed the final game of the year because the Ravens had playoffs wrapped up and sat most of their starters. He played in the playoffs both of those years so it wasn't like he was injured. The Ravens simply didn't care about some meaningless accolade of playing all 16 games.

I didn’t mean to mislead. I just went off games played and memory of the last three seasons… but you’re right it is misleading to say he’s only started one full season.

After further review:

2018- played the full season.

2019- like you said he was rested in week 17 and played in the playoffs.

2020- he didn’t miss the last game due to resting starters… but he didn’t miss any games due to injury either (it was for COVID protocol mid-season). He did play in the postseason, but his season ended with him knocked out of the game with a concussion in the 3rd Q.

2021 - missed the final 4 games with an ankle injury and the Ravens missed the playoffs.

2022 - injured his knee in week 13 and missed the rest of the regular season and the playoffs.

So while what I said was true, part of it was misleading.

The part about the Ravens ending their last three seasons without him being healthy enough to play was accurate. That’s 3 out of 5. That definitely leads to durability questions/concerns and doesn’t at all compare to Rodgers’ career.

[Deja Entendu]

And fwiw I voted yes.

[Bootz]

Since you're so hell bent on us dropping the Lamar Jackson discussion....On a message board.....Why don't you lead a new discussion for everybody. I'm sure you're past sick and tired of telling everybody that it ain't happening....

I’m sick and tired of you telling everyone he’s coming here when there’s no chance in hell he is. Seriously give it up.

Not 1 person has said he's coming here. Everyone is discussing and exploring the opportunity and the what ifs. Sorry that makes you so upset.

[mdb1958]

And fwiw I voted yes.

I'm the only "do not want"..

[Navybuc]

Babe the fact you would go back three years on an old board to dig that up makes me scared you’re obsessed with me or something. You’re not outside my house right now are you?

And hey, crow tastes good every now and then. That time couldn’t be sweeter.

That was truly a pitiful Hail Mary. Too bad it was epically overthrown.

Difference between 2020 and 2023 is we could afford Tom Brady three years ago. We can’t afford Josh Freeman right now. Yet you have people like Bootz making it sound like he’s coming here.

[Deja Entendu]

And fwiw I voted yes.

I'm the only "do not want"..

Nah, there are 10 others.

Honestly, his style of play and its sustainability terrifies me, but he’s an undeniable talent and the best QB “available” that could keep us contending. It’s also not my money and I think the cap can be worked.

I’d be ok with kicking the can for a year or two of Rodgers too for the same reason, but that’s never happening.

[Snake]

He can be “afforded” even with the cap restrictions this coming season. It’s a matter of how crazy do the Bucs want to get.

[Moozician]

He can be “afforded” even with the cap restrictions this coming season. It’s a matter of how crazy do the Bucs want to get.

And that's what worries me. We gotta "pay the piper" sooner or later, and rather do that when we're in a rebuild mode.

[Snake]

He can be “afforded” even with the cap restrictions this coming season. It’s a matter of how crazy do the Bucs want to get.

And that's what worries me. We gotta "pay the piper" sooner or later, and rather do that when we're in a rebuild mode.

You still pay the piper in 2023-2024 (this coming season), regardless. The roster won't be as good as you'd like it to be, but structuring Lamar's contract in a way that makes year 1 a light hit, allows you to roster him.

After year 1, his cap number likely spikes immediately, but in theory you have a franchise QB entering his age 27 season and the books are clearing.

I get the hang up with all of this...

If you believe Lamar Jackson will be effective for 3 more seasons (at most), you look at this as an attempt to extend the competitive window that would otherwise be slamming shut.

If you believe Lamar will be effective for 5+ seasons when you'll be rostering him, you can live with a less competitive year 1 and feel happy about having an elite QB with a rebuilt roster from years 2-5+.

If I'm making this move, I'm more worried about years 2 and beyond. You just do whatever you need to do to get the man on the team. The cap is growing year over year. Backload the contract and even if he goes kah-blamo in year 4-5, the cap is so big you don't care.

It's a matter of perception.

If I said you needed to fuck up your books in year 1 and not re-sign a guy or two to sign Patrick Mahomes long-term, you'd do whatever is possible to do it. Because you're looking past year 1.

The same perception doesn't apply to Lamar. and there's a lot of valid reasons for that. Late-season injuries, playstyle not aging well historically. He's seen as a short-term option.

Risk vs Reward!

[MJW]

I usually hate this kind of reductive thinking, but I have to be honest: the Ravens have a much better cap situation than we do (who doesn't) and they've structured their entire attack around Lamar Jackson's skill set, yet they thus far refuse to pay him the money he wants and commit to him for the next 4+ years.

I'm kinda wondering what we think we know that they do not know.

[Grahamburn]

Contract demands.

Tell me you never want to have a franchise QB without telling me you never want to have a franchise QB.

2 1st round picks.

:See above. Much worse has been had for much more.

1-3 playoff record.

I suppose you'd prefer a QB who's never been to the post season before instead of one that's been there 4 times...

Unable to finish the last two seasons.

What is this, an omen? Does this mean he won't ever finish seasons?

As he ages his effectiveness as a runner will continue to dissipate.

I mean name me a player for which this is not true..They all age.

I just think it’s a poor decision and direction as a franchise that won’t ultimately lead to a championship.

But Kyle Trask & Drew Lock will lead us to a ring? Good one, kiddo.

Why can’t you have a conversation without resorting to childish insults?

All fans want a franchise QB. Ideally, you draft them, develop them, and extend them after building a team around them.

In the case of the hypothetical we’re discussing that’s impossible. Our cap is in shambles so we can’t sign free agents much less our own players to extensions, and that’s without Lamar. We’d lose two first round picks to acquire him and therefore can’t build a team around an aging player whose effectiveness is very much built on his ability to run.

By the time we’d be ready to truly compete he’d be nearing the end of his deal.

That’s just how I feel about it.

I want to see what we have in Trask. Get the cap in a better situation. Open a new future window where either Trask or someone else leads this team.

If Trask is as awful as everyone thinks we’ll be in the running for some of the top QB prospects in what is shaping up to be a good class.

[BucsNBills]

I usually hate this kind of reductive thinking, but I have to be honest: the Ravens have a much better cap situation than we do (who doesn't) and they've structured their entire attack around Lamar Jackson's skill set, yet they thus far refuse to pay him the money he wants and commit to him for the next 4+ years.

I'm kinda wondering what we think we know that they do not know.

I don't think think they know anything that we don't. They don't want to pay the guaranteed money Lamar is asking for and the rest of the league is colluding with the Ravens to ensure it doesn't happen. That's all that's occurring here. Has nothing to do with his play, reliability, etc. It's about the guaranteed dollars, nothing more.

[Four Verticals]

I usually hate this kind of reductive thinking, but I have to be honest: the Ravens have a much better cap situation than we do (who doesn't) and they've structured their entire attack around Lamar Jackson's skill set, yet they thus far refuse to pay him the money he wants and commit to him for the next 4+ years.

I'm kinda wondering what we think we know that they do not know.

They're waiting for another team to give him the fully guaranteed contract offer sheet so they can match it. This way they avoid being the 2nd and confirming team for fully guaranteed contracts after the Watson deal and they keep their guy.

If no teams provides that offer, whatever offer (assuming there is one) he's given they can match anyway and they keep their guy.

Either way they keep their guy.

They're going to keep their guy.

[Deja Entendu]

I usually hate this kind of reductive thinking, but I have to be honest: the Ravens have a much better cap situation than we do (who doesn't) and they've structured their entire attack around Lamar Jackson's skill set, yet they thus far refuse to pay him the money he wants and commit to him for the next 4+ years.

I'm kinda wondering what we think we know that they do not know.

They're waiting for another team to give him the fully guaranteed contract offer sheet so they can match it. This way they avoid being the 2nd and confirming team for fully guaranteed contracts after the Watson deal and they keep their guy.

If no teams provides that offer, whatever offer (assuming there is one) he's given they can match anyway and they keep their guy.

Either way they keep their guy.

They're going to keep their guy.

I think it’s the most likely scenario as well.

[Bootz]

Funny how Deshaun Watson’s fully guaranteed deal was a problem but Kirk Cousins and Tom Brady’s were ah-okay…

[_MB_]

Funny how Deshaun Watson’s fully guaranteed deal was a problem but Kirk Cousins and Tom Brady’s were ah-okay…

Kirk Cousins or Tom Brady > Deshaun Watson

[Bootz]

Funny how Deshaun Watson’s fully guaranteed deal was a problem but Kirk Cousins and Tom Brady’s were ah-okay…

Kirk Cousins or Tom Brady > Deshaun Watson

Kirk Cousins? Really? Certainly can’t be based off the numbers of team performance.

[_MB_]

Kirk Cousins or Tom Brady > Deshaun Watson

Kirk Cousins? Really? Certainly can’t be based off the numbers of team performance.

Which numbers you want?

4'000 yard seasons?
Completion percentage?
Division titles?
30+ TD seasons?
People fondled?

[Selmon Rules]

He can be “afforded” even with the cap restrictions this coming season. It’s a matter of how crazy do the Bucs want to get.

And that's what worries me. We gotta "pay the piper" sooner or later, and rather do that when we're in a rebuild mode.

The thing about kicking the can is that the cap keeps going up, dramatically in some years, so what seems like an exorbitant contract today is very affordable in just a few short years.... Put me down for "Why not" on Lamar and let's see what happens!!

[Bootz]

Kirk Cousins? Really? Certainly can’t be based off the numbers of team performance.

Which numbers you want?

4'000 yard seasons?
Completion percentage?
Division titles?
30+ TD seasons?
People fondled?

Sure let’s compare.

This is what Cousins put up in Washington to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Minnesota

26-30-1 record (57 games)
99 TDs/55 INts, less than 2 to 1.
65.5% completion
0-1 playoff record, 1 division title
0 double digit win seasons
1 pro-bowl appearance.

This is what Watson put up in Houston to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Cleveland

28-25 record (53 games)
104 TDs/36 INts, nearly 3 to 1
67.8% completion
1-2 playoff record, 2 division titles
2 double digit win seasons
3 straight Pro Bowl Appearances


So again, it’s okay that Cousins got fully guaranteed money but Watson’s was a problem?

[Grahamburn]

Which numbers you want?

4'000 yard seasons?
Completion percentage?
Division titles?
30+ TD seasons?
People fondled?

Sure let’s compare.

This is what Cousins put up in Washington to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Minnesota

26-30-1 record (57 games)
99 TDs/55 INts, less than 2 to 1.
65.5% completion
0-1 playoff record, 1 division title
0 double digit win seasons
1 pro-bowl appearance.

This is what Watson put up in Houston to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Cleveland

28-25 record (53 games)
104 TDs/36 INts, nearly 3 to 1
67.8% completion
1-2 playoff record, 2 division titles
2 double digit win seasons
3 straight Pro Bowl Appearances


So again, it’s okay that Cousins got fully guaranteed money but Watson’s was a problem?

Is it your point that giving fully guaranteed deals (plus picks in some cases) to QBs with so so track records is not such a great idea? Excellent point. Totally agree.

[Bootz]

Sure let’s compare.

This is what Cousins put up in Washington to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Minnesota

26-30-1 record (57 games)
99 TDs/55 INts, less than 2 to 1.
65.5% completion
0-1 playoff record, 1 division title
0 double digit win seasons
1 pro-bowl appearance.

This is what Watson put up in Houston to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Cleveland

28-25 record (53 games)
104 TDs/36 INts, nearly 3 to 1
67.8% completion
1-2 playoff record, 2 division titles
2 double digit win seasons
3 straight Pro Bowl Appearances


So again, it’s okay that Cousins got fully guaranteed money but Watson’s was a problem?

Is it your point that giving fully guaranteed deals (plus picks in some cases) to QBs with so so track records is not such a great idea? Excellent point. Totally agree.

Except no one had issues with Cousins getting such a deal. You only heard rumblings when Watson got one and now that Lamar wants one.

In the context of the conversation you made your way into, @_MB_ here was saying Cousins put up better numbers in Washington than Watson did in Houston.

[Buc2]

I don't have a problem with any player getting fully guaranteed contracts. I don't have to pay them, so not my problem. Players have been shit on for years by greedy team owners. If they can get it then get it. More power to 'em.

[Grahamburn]

I always thought Cousins’ was ridiculous as well.

[_MB_]

Which numbers you want?

4'000 yard seasons?
Completion percentage?
Division titles?
30+ TD seasons?
People fondled?

Sure let’s compare.

This is what Cousins put up in Washington to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Minnesota

26-30-1 record (57 games)
99 TDs/55 INts, less than 2 to 1.
65.5% completion
0-1 playoff record, 1 division title
0 double digit win seasons
1 pro-bowl appearance.

This is what Watson put up in Houston to “earn” a fully guaranteed deal with Cleveland

28-25 record (53 games)
104 TDs/36 INts, nearly 3 to 1
67.8% completion
1-2 playoff record, 2 division titles
2 double digit win seasons
3 straight Pro Bowl Appearances


So again, it’s okay that Cousins got fully guaranteed money but Watson’s was a problem?

I don't have a problem with either man's money.

But if I need a quarterback for my NFL team and those are my choices, I take Cousins.

[acmillis]

Inb4 Bootz plays the race card