The Damage

[acmillis]

My God. Teams are fighting to get as good of a QB as they can possibly get while the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are relegated to "shaking trees" and seeing what trash QBs like Drew Lock have to offer.

Tells you all you need to know.

That doesn't mean they should be paying mediocre QBS 35-37M/year...just that they, "got a guy."

I'd rather give Trask a shot for what, less than 2M next year instead of paying either Carr or Geno HUGE money for what they offer...which is nothing great.

Remember all those years we, "won free agency" by signing Carl Nicks, Eric Wright, etc.? How'd that work out. Just because a team spends a ton of money does not mean it was the right thing to do.

[_MB_]

FOMO is strong this morning

[Bootz]

Yea people are really afraid that Trask or Lock might actually be superstars

[_MB_]

I was talking about you.

[Bootz]

I know. That ain't fear. That's called meeting a standard. Shouldn't we expect the powers that be to try and put the best possible product on the field instead of hyping up these "who can win last place best" contests?

I mean I get it. Most people have low standards as is. So expecting more would be out of their comfort zone. But damn, accepting defeat before it even begins? That's what scares me.

[_MB_]

I get not wanting to tank or accept defeat or take a year off.

I don't think Licht will do that. Two firsts gets Lamar? What else can two firsts get me? Bryce Young?

[Bootz]

2 1sts will not get Bryce Young. Not coming from 19.

[Snake]

2 1sts will not get Bryce Young. Not coming from 19.

Correct. Which makes this all very interesting.

Lamar Jackson - 2 1sts, and a massive contract - for a proven commodity.

Bryce Young - 2 1sts+ - but on a rookie contract and an unknown commodity at the NFL level.

[acmillis]

I know. That ain't fear. That's called meeting a standard. Shouldn't we expect the powers that be to try and put the best possible product on the field instead of hyping up these "who can win last place best" contests?

I mean I get it. Most people have low standards as is. So expecting more would be out of their comfort zone. But damn, accepting defeat before it even begins? That's what scares me.

What if OBP thinks that Trask is, "the best possible product (to be) put on the field?"

[Bootz]

2 1sts will not get Bryce Young. Not coming from 19.

Correct. Which makes this all very interesting.

Lamar Jackson - 2 1sts, and a massive contract - for a proven commodity.

Bryce Young - 2 1sts+ - but on a rookie contract and an unknown commodity at the NFL level.

If given a choice, I'd take the former. A proven commodity is gonna cost you a ton eventually. If Young pans out, in 3 years he'll be signing his own massive contract.

[MJW]

I know. That ain't fear. That's called meeting a standard. Shouldn't we expect the powers that be to try and put the best possible product on the field instead of hyping up these "who can win last place best" contests?

I mean I get it. Most people have low standards as is. So expecting more would be out of their comfort zone. But damn, accepting defeat before it even begins? That's what scares me.

Let me employ a Metaphor.

Two mechanics are fixing cars simultaneously. They decide to race, with the race beginning tomorrow regardless of the state of the cars.

One mechanic uses the parts laying around the shop, some welding tricks, and four mismatched tires to get the car on the road faster.
The other carefully and methodically selects each part, meticulously performs repairs, and takes as long as it takes for the car to be in the best possible condition for the race.

The first guy is on the road instantly when the race begins. He's done what he has to do. He gets halfway there before his shitty repairs catch up to him and the car breaks down.

The other guy? He's not ready when the race begins. It might be longer for him. But unlike the first guy, he's doing everything he can to make sure he finishes.

The second guy is not committed to low standards. Quite the opposite. He wants to do things correctly. But while the car isn't on the road, one can be sure there'll be folks who don't understand why and call him a loser.

[MJW]

Or to put it simply:

We're not winning shit next year.
The Saints ain't winning shit next year.
So I'd rather have the young, cheap guy with upside getting evaluated than giving $70 mil in guarantees to a guy who is basically a middle of the pack quarterback.

[Bootz]

I know. That ain't fear. That's called meeting a standard. Shouldn't we expect the powers that be to try and put the best possible product on the field instead of hyping up these "who can win last place best" contests?

I mean I get it. Most people have low standards as is. So expecting more would be out of their comfort zone. But damn, accepting defeat before it even begins? That's what scares me.

Let me employ a Metaphor.

Two mechanics are fixing cars simultaneously. They decide to race, with the race beginning tomorrow regardless of the state of the cars.

One mechanic uses the parts laying around the shop, some welding tricks, and four mismatched tires to get the car on the road faster.
The other carefully and methodically selects each part, meticulously performs repairs, and takes as long as it takes for the car to be in the best possible condition for the race.

The first guy is on the road instantly when the race begins. He's done what he has to do. He gets halfway there before his shitty repairs catch up to him and the car breaks down.

The other guy? He's not ready when the race begins. It might be longer for him. But unlike the first guy, he's doing everything he can to make sure he finishes.

The second guy is not committed to low standards. Quite the opposite. He wants to do things correctly. But while the car isn't on the road, one can be sure there'll be folks who don't understand why and call him a loser.

Ummm in this ANALOGY (not metaphor) Mechanic 1 would be a GM who uses pieces already on the team laying around, wielding tricks would be new scheme & coaches, mismatch tires would be the pieces already in place. But okay..

[Cheb]

My God. Teams are fighting to get as good of a QB as they can possibly get while the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are relegated to "shaking trees" and seeing what trash QBs like Drew Lock have to offer.

Tells you all you need to know.

Do you know what's worse than being 58 million dollars over the cap?

Being 90+ million dollars over the cap with the only addition to your roster being a likely middling starting quarterback.

[Bootz]

My God. Teams are fighting to get as good of a QB as they can possibly get while the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are relegated to "shaking trees" and seeing what trash QBs like Drew Lock have to offer.

Tells you all you need to know.

Do you know what's worse than being 58 million dollars over the cap?

Being 90+ million dollars over the cap with the only addition to your roster being a likely middling starting quarterback.

Who said anything about being $90mil over?

[kaimaru]

Cheb is assuming we wouldn't pay his first season in bonus money and vet min

[Doctor]

There aren't 31 teams tripping over themselves for Lamar, Rodgers, and Carr.
They aren't right for everyone.

It's not a hard case to say they aren't right for us right now either. Being where we are is what's right for us, I know that because we know have two chips instead of one and we have to eat ramen for a year because of it.

That doesn't mean we don't go out there and compete every damn day. Just means no sushi.
With that said if OBP could somehow manage to structure a fully guaranteed deal for Lamar I'd be on board with the costs.

[Grahamburn]

So the Ravens won’t sign Lamar to the deal he wants, but we should, AND subsequently give up two first round picks?! Hard hitting stuff. iabf

[Kona]

If we had the cap space I wouldn’t be opposed to giving up 19 and next years first for Lamar with this Roster.

[Doctor]

When did the Ravens become the smartest kid in the room?

[Bootz]

When did the Ravens become the smartest kid in the room?

When they fit people's agenda.

[GreatTimes]

When did the Ravens become the smartest kid in the room?

When the Ravens used the nonexclusive tag on Lamar. The Ravens have the right to match any teams offer. They may very well want to let other NFL teams set the contract price for Lamar, and then match it. I believe that is the Ravens game plan.

[Bootz]

When did the Ravens become the smartest kid in the room?

When the Ravens used the nonexclusive tag on Lamar. The Ravens have the right to match any teams offer. They may very well want to let other NFL teams set the contract price for Lamar, and then match it. I believe that is the Ravens game plan.

That shows incompetence as well as manipulation. Not to mention you’re basically saying the Ravens are negotiating with themselves.

They reportedly offered Lamar $133 mil in guarantees. If a team offers him $200mil guaranteed you’re saying they’d match an offer they had no intention to make.

[Snake]

For reference:

Wilson received $161m in guarantees.
Murray received $160m in guarantees ($104.3m fully).
Daniel Jones received $94m fully guaranteed. $35m in incentives.
Carr just received $100m guaranteed. AAV of $37m

You can see why the Watson deal was so crazy in retrospect.

[Bootz]

Yep. You can also see why the Ravens aren’t being realistic about what they have in Lamar Jackson.

[GreatTimes]

When the Ravens used the nonexclusive tag on Lamar. The Ravens have the right to match any teams offer. They may very well want to let other NFL teams set the contract price for Lamar, and then match it. I believe that is the Ravens game plan.

That shows incompetence as well as manipulation. Not to mention you’re basically saying the Ravens are negotiating with themselves.

They reportedly offered Lamar $133 mil in guarantees. If a team offers him $200mil guaranteed you’re saying they’d match an offer they had no intention to make.

No. I am saying that the Ravens believe that no team is going to offer Lamar what he is asking. It is a win win proposition for the Ravens. I some other team offers what the Ravens decide not to match, they get 2 first round draft choices. If no other teams offers Lamar a big contract than the Ravens get Lamar back at a lower price than Lamar is asking for. The Ravens are letting the market determine the value of Lamar.

[Buc2]

That shows incompetence as well as manipulation. Not to mention you’re basically saying the Ravens are negotiating with themselves.

They reportedly offered Lamar $133 mil in guarantees. If a team offers him $200mil guaranteed you’re saying they’d match an offer they had no intention to make.

No. I am saying that the Ravens believe that no team is going to offer Lamar what he is asking. It is a win win proposition for the Ravens. I some other team offers what the Ravens decide not to match, they get 2 first round draft choices. If no other teams offers Lamar a big contract than the Ravens get Lamar back at a lower price than Lamar is asking for. The Ravens are letting the market determine the value of Lamar.

And if they match it and LJ decides he'd rather sit a year rather than sign it? Then what do the Ravens do?

[GreatTimes]

No. I am saying that the Ravens believe that no team is going to offer Lamar what he is asking. It is a win win proposition for the Ravens. I some other team offers what the Ravens decide not to match, they get 2 first round draft choices. If no other teams offers Lamar a big contract than the Ravens get Lamar back at a lower price than Lamar is asking for. The Ravens are letting the market determine the value of Lamar.

And if they match it and LJ decides he'd rather sit a year rather than sign it? Then what do the Ravens do?

Trade his rights.

[Bootz]

And if they match it and LJ decides he'd rather sit a year rather than sign it? Then what do the Ravens do?

Trade his rights.

And eat that extremely large dead cap hit, plus probably getting a 1st at the very most in the process. Great talk.

[Snake]

And if they match it and LJ decides he'd rather sit a year rather than sign it? Then what do the Ravens do?

Trade his rights.

Don’t think that’s possible until he signs the dotted line. Tagging him or not, he’s not under contract until he agrees. He just can’t sign anywhere else.

Edit: I may be thinking about the normal franchise tag. This other thing is new territory for me.

[Bootz]

Trade his rights.

Don’t think that’s possible until he signs the dotted line. Tagging him or not, he’s not under contract until he agrees. He just can’t sign anywhere else.

Edit: I may be thinking about the normal franchise tag. This other thing is new territory for me.

His scenario was that Lamar signs an offer sheet with another team, Baltimore matches and then Lamar refuses to play for Baltimore.

Unless I'm thinking incorrectly and that he has to sign with the Ravens also if they match.

[GreatTimes]

Don’t think that’s possible until he signs the dotted line. Tagging him or not, he’s not under contract until he agrees. He just can’t sign anywhere else.

Edit: I may be thinking about the normal franchise tag. This other thing is new territory for me.

His scenario was that Lamar signs an offer sheet with another team, Baltimore matches and then Lamar refuses to play for Baltimore.

Unless I'm thinking incorrectly and that he has to sign with the Ravens also if they match.

The day after another team signs LJ to a non-exclusive contract, The Ravens can meet with LJ and offer him a slightly better contract. If LJ says no, then the Ravens say goodby to LJ and take the 2 first round draft picks. The Ravens can then trade their own 1st round pick along with the other teams first round draft pick to move up in the draft to select a QB.

[Bootz]

His scenario was that Lamar signs an offer sheet with another team, Baltimore matches and then Lamar refuses to play for Baltimore.

Unless I'm thinking incorrectly and that he has to sign with the Ravens also if they match.

The day after another team signs LJ to a non-exclusive contract, The Ravens can meet with LJ and offer him a slightly better contract. If LJ says no, then the Ravens say goodby to LJ and take the 2 first round draft picks. The Ravens can then trade their own 1st round pick along with the other teams first round draft pick to move up in the draft to select a QB.

2 things…No they can’t, they can only match the offer. And if they were going to offer him a better deal than he’d get elsewhere we wouldn’t be where we are today. Baltimore would’ve done it by now.

[Snake]

Why don’t they want to pay him?

Again, they know him better than anyone. Medically, habits, personality, etc.

Is it the end of season injuries?

[Doctor]

I don't think the Ravens need to offer him slightly better anything.

First and foremost he's still negotiating with the Ravens. This is why other teams talk about "doing the legwork for them". If he signs the offer sheet with the other team he's also agreeing to that contract with the Ravens first. The Ravens then can refuse to match, in which case the other team pays two firsts, and the contract parties are Lamar and his new team.

If Lamar signs an offer and the Ravens match, it's a done deal with the Ravens. His "refusing to play" at this point would be the same as if he had signed a normal extension and then refused to play. And it would be handled as such.

There is a whole lot of wiggle room between the $130M guaranteed offered by the Ravens and the $230M in the Watson deal. The idea that neither side would ever accept anything in the middle is silly.