The Damage

[Bootz]

IMO this deserves it's own discussion.



I knew it wasn't pretty but damn. This is some severe cap mismanagement by Licht & company for 1 ring. Who knows the next time we'll compete for another. But $65 dedicated to players who aren't here anymore?? And this situation doesn't clear up much in 2024 either with more expiring/ voided deals.

[Snake]

I’m all about going all-in to maximize chances at a ring.

I just don’t agree with the moves that were made for the final season, in particular.

[Bootz]

I’m all about going all-in to maximize chances at a ring.

I just don’t agree with the moves that were made for the final season, in particular.

The moves made in the final season were all about expanding that window and maximizing our chances. Now over the hill vets are stuck on our books. Worst thing that could've happened was Brady returning instead of staying retired.

[Terry Tate]

We got a ring and one of the most glorious seasons in NFL history. We signed the GOAT, had a great D, scored a ton of points, retiree Drew Brees and smoked the Saints in their house and won a title in our own house. Add in the boat parade and I dare anyone to say it wasn't worth it.

[Bootz]

We got a ring and one of the most glorious seasons in NFL history. We signed the GOAT, had a great D, scored a ton of points, retiree Drew Brees and smoked the Saints in their house and won a title in our own house. Add in the boat parade and I dare anyone to say it wasn't worth it.

People have already come down from that high, OBP included. If pupils were still dilated, 9 coaches wouldn't have been fired last month. They'd still be celebrated for being part of a SB winning staff. Plus there was this entire discussion about Bowles being fired.

The memories are great of course but you can't live in that moment forever.

[Cheb]

I feel the majority of NFL franchises would temporarily torpedo their cap to win a Superbowl. The Jags or Texans or Cardinals or other perennially bad franchise would anyways, and guess what, we are historically a bad franchise. The cost was worth it.

Getting out of this hole is going to not be fun, but it's doable.

Our first starting point is we have a $56.5 million debt we have to pay down to not just neutrality but some manner of positive number. We need a floor of $10 million just to sign our rookie draftees, assuming we keep the same picks without trades. We will also need at least some space for veteran free agents, as well as some to resign our own dudes.

----

The next thing we have to realize in pursuit of these goals is that two players can be designated as post-6/1 cuts for cap purposes even if we cut them prior to the league new year. So, who would we cut who would net us the biggest bag of money?

Which comes to designating those two post-June cuts. The following players would greater than $4 million in savings:

- Donovan Smith, $15.2 million. Good as gone.
- Mike Evans, $14.5 million. Fuck no.
- Shaq Barrett, $14.6 million. Interesting but complicated by his injury, would need an injury settlement, I don't know how that would work.
- Shaq Mason, $8.5 million. Likely.
- CD3, $6 million. Unlikely.
- Russell Gage, $5 million. Would lead to more dead cap than savings.
- Lenny Fournette, $4.9 million. Rumored to be true, asked for his release, goodbye friend.
- Cam Brate, $4 million. Possible.

Pick your favorite two. I would go with Donovan Smith because he offers the biggest savings with the minimal amount of disruption, and Lenny cuz he doesn't wanna be here, but reasonable people can disagree. Choose your own adventure.

My scenario: cut Donovan Smith and Leonard Fournette, save over 20 million, now -$36 million in cap space.

---

Next step is restructures, wherein we convert base salary into signing bonuses for the duration of the contract. Here's where we save the money, but we need players to play along. Possible savings by restructures:

- Godwin 14 million
- Evans 10 million
- Barrett 9.8 million
- CD3 6.7 million
- Vita Vea 8.5 million
- Jensen 8.5 million
- Mason 4.7 million
- Gage 4.4 million

Maximum savings here is $66.6 million in cap space. Restructuring Evans, Godwin, Vita, and Jensen gets us $41 million in savings, which brings us up to $5 million in cap space after designating Smith and Fournette as post June 1 cuts. Everything else is gravy on top, but there's another $25 million to be had.

---

Then we can go for regular cuts. I'd assume Brate is gone for 2 million in savings, he's not what he once was. Succop can be cut for another 3.25 million in savings. Now we're up to $10 million in savings assuming those prior moves, which is what we need for starters to resign our rookies.

Should be interesting moves in the next two weeks.

[Backside]

A ring is always worth it. But most of these signings were done after we had already won. Most of us were totally on board with the post Super Bowl off-season (hell, last years too, once Brady came back.) and we got another fun season out of it.

Not every move was a winner. But we knew the piper would need to be paid eventually. Getting a top draft pick and QBOTF out of it would be nice.

[Babeinbucland]

I feel the majority of NFL franchises would temporarily torpedo their cap to win a Superbowl. The Jags or Texans or Cardinals or other perennially bad franchise would anyways, and guess what, we are historically a bad franchise. The cost was worth it.

Getting out of this hole is going to not be fun, but it's doable.

Our first starting point is we have a $56.5 million debt we have to pay down to not just neutrality but some manner of positive number. We need a floor of $10 million just to sign our rookie draftees, assuming we keep the same picks without trades. We will also need at least some space for veteran free agents, as well as some to resign our own dudes.

----

The next thing we have to realize in pursuit of these goals is that two players can be designated as post-6/1 cuts for cap purposes even if we cut them prior to the league new year. So, who would we cut who would net us the biggest bag of money?

Which comes to designating those two post-June cuts. The following players would greater than $4 million in savings:

- Donovan Smith, $15.2 million. Good as gone.
- Mike Evans, $14.5 million. Fuck no.
- Shaq Barrett, $14.6 million. Interesting but complicated by his injury, would need an injury settlement, I don't know how that would work.
- Shaq Mason, $8.5 million. Likely.
- CD3, $6 million. Unlikely.
- Russell Gage, $5 million. Would lead to more dead cap than savings.
- Lenny Fournette, $4.9 million. Rumored to be true, asked for his release, goodbye friend.
- Cam Brate, $4 million. Possible.

Pick your favorite two. I would go with Donovan Smith because he offers the biggest savings with the minimal amount of disruption, and Lenny cuz he doesn't wanna be here, but reasonable people can disagree. Choose your own adventure.

My scenario: cut Donovan Smith and Leonard Fournette, save over 20 million, now -$36 million in cap space.

---

Next step is restructures, wherein we convert base salary into signing bonuses for the duration of the contract. Here's where we save the money, but we need players to play along. Possible savings by restructures:

- Godwin 14 million
- Evans 10 million
- Barrett 9.8 million
- CD3 6.7 million
- Vita Vea 8.5 million
- Jensen 8.5 million
- Mason 4.7 million
- Gage 4.4 million

Maximum savings here is $66.6 million in cap space. Restructuring Evans, Godwin, Vita, and Jensen gets us $41 million in savings, which brings us up to $5 million in cap space after designating Smith and Fournette as post June 1 cuts. Everything else is gravy on top, but there's another $25 million to be had.

---

Then we can go for regular cuts. I'd assume Brate is gone for 2 million in savings, he's not what he once was. Succop can be cut for another 3.25 million in savings. Now we're up to $10 million in savings assuming those prior moves, which is what we need for starters to resign our rookies.

Should be interesting moves in the next two weeks.

Wait, aren’t Lenny and smith already gone?

[Max]

I knew it wasn't pretty but damn. This is some severe cap mismanagement by Licht & company for 1 ring. Who knows the next time we'll compete for another.

12 out of 32 teams have never won a ring.

Besides the obvious point that a Super Bowl is absolutely worth having to deal with some dead cap for one or two seasons, we wouldn't have competed this season anyway. You know, because our QB retired.

Moron

[Cheb]

I feel the majority of NFL franchises would temporarily torpedo their cap to win a Superbowl. The Jags or Texans or Cardinals or other perennially bad franchise would anyways, and guess what, we are historically a bad franchise. The cost was worth it.

Getting out of this hole is going to not be fun, but it's doable.

Our first starting point is we have a $56.5 million debt we have to pay down to not just neutrality but some manner of positive number. We need a floor of $10 million just to sign our rookie draftees, assuming we keep the same picks without trades. We will also need at least some space for veteran free agents, as well as some to resign our own dudes.

----

The next thing we have to realize in pursuit of these goals is that two players can be designated as post-6/1 cuts for cap purposes even if we cut them prior to the league new year. So, who would we cut who would net us the biggest bag of money?

Which comes to designating those two post-June cuts. The following players would greater than $4 million in savings:

- Donovan Smith, $15.2 million. Good as gone.
- Mike Evans, $14.5 million. Fuck no.
- Shaq Barrett, $14.6 million. Interesting but complicated by his injury, would need an injury settlement, I don't know how that would work.
- Shaq Mason, $8.5 million. Likely.
- CD3, $6 million. Unlikely.
- Russell Gage, $5 million. Would lead to more dead cap than savings.
- Lenny Fournette, $4.9 million. Rumored to be true, asked for his release, goodbye friend.
- Cam Brate, $4 million. Possible.

Pick your favorite two. I would go with Donovan Smith because he offers the biggest savings with the minimal amount of disruption, and Lenny cuz he doesn't wanna be here, but reasonable people can disagree. Choose your own adventure.

My scenario: cut Donovan Smith and Leonard Fournette, save over 20 million, now -$36 million in cap space.

---

Next step is restructures, wherein we convert base salary into signing bonuses for the duration of the contract. Here's where we save the money, but we need players to play along. Possible savings by restructures:

- Godwin 14 million
- Evans 10 million
- Barrett 9.8 million
- CD3 6.7 million
- Vita Vea 8.5 million
- Jensen 8.5 million
- Mason 4.7 million
- Gage 4.4 million

Maximum savings here is $66.6 million in cap space. Restructuring Evans, Godwin, Vita, and Jensen gets us $41 million in savings, which brings us up to $5 million in cap space after designating Smith and Fournette as post June 1 cuts. Everything else is gravy on top, but there's another $25 million to be had.

---

Then we can go for regular cuts. I'd assume Brate is gone for 2 million in savings, he's not what he once was. Succop can be cut for another 3.25 million in savings. Now we're up to $10 million in savings assuming those prior moves, which is what we need for starters to resign our rookies.

Should be interesting moves in the next two weeks.

Wait, aren’t Lenny and smith already gone?

Rumored to be as good as gone, not officially cut yet.

[Bootz]

Wait, aren’t Lenny and smith already gone?

Rumored to be as good as gone, not officially cut yet.

Lenny is confirmed.

[Doctor]

We put together one of the greatest teams in history, if that's cap mismanagement then please mismanage me more often.

A lot of guys were window guys. Guys we could've let go after the superbowl but brought back a little fat to see if we could get another bite at the apple. It didn't work but I'm infinitely gladder knowing it didn't work than always being left to wonder if it could've. It should be a quick rip of the band aid.

[Cheb]

Rumored to be as good as gone, not officially cut yet.

Lenny is confirmed.

Ah, gotcha.

[Terry Tate]

We put together one of the greatest teams in history, if that's cap mismanagement then please mismanage me more often.

A lot of guys were window guys. Guys we could've let go after the superbowl but brought back a little fat to see if we could get another bite at the apple. It didn't work but I'm infinitely gladder knowing it didn't work than always being left to wonder if it could've. It should be a quick rip of the band aid.

Yup.

We might have had a shot on paper. We couldn't know that we would get absolutely molested by the injury bug or that Lefty was an even worse OC than we feared.

[Phantom]

We got a ring and one of the most glorious seasons in NFL history. We signed the GOAT, had a great D, scored a ton of points, retiree Drew Brees and smoked the Saints in their house and won a title in our own house. Add in the boat parade and I dare anyone to say it wasn't worth it.

Exactly!

/thread

[mdb1958]

If we avoid free agency is there a limit on comp picks? It would be cool to have about 20 picks next year.

[mdb1958]

Coach up a whole bunch of rookies two years in a row.

[Obsolete]

Its almost creepy how much you love rookies.

[mdb1958]

Its almost creepy how much you love rookies.

I cant force anyone to take my advice so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

[mdb1958]

Even our 17 free agents making a little over a million a year - would like more money. If you go through free agency and sign 17 more, how did you help the problem?

So we sign our 9 or so draft picks and get a bunch of priority free agents to fill out our roster. Then we convince them we are supposed to win the NFCS.

[mdb1958]

I expect Donovan Smith to be traded before 3/20/23 for a 7th rounder.
Maybe Shaq Mason and Succop too.

[Grahamburn]

After the season he just had can’t Smith be restructured?

[Max]

[Kona]

A big yikes, but definitely worth it.

I will say it makes this past season more disappointing, giving that we were bad and still mortgaged the future for the likes of Julio Jones, Akeim Hicks etc. But with Brady coming back last off-season we almost had to.

[BucsNBills]

No sense in crying over spilt milk. We got a ring, did our best to repeat, and then Brady did his retirement drama. We had no choice but to go all out every year Brady was here. And to be fair, had the dirty Saints not targeted Godwin's knee and we win that game, Brady officially wins the MVP(because he was the MVP), we get the bye, we don't lose Wirfs, and we probably win back to back.So all in all we're a bounty gate tackle away from two Lombardi's with Brady, which makes the cost for getting that far pretty worth it

And we're going to have tons of cap space next year, so we're really only going to feel this pain for a single season. And if we play our cards right, we can get a star rookie QB with a lot of cap space to dump into the roster and maybe launch something special for the foreseeable future.

Also, you can't put a price tag on moments like these:

[Bootz]

And we're going to have tons of cap space next year, so we're really only going to feel this pain for a single season. And if we play our cards right, we can get a star rookie QB with a lot of cap space to dump into the roster and maybe launch something special for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't say we have a "ton" of cap space next season. Right now we have about $37mil in space with 31 players under contract. That does yet include new players we might sign, rookies, extensions or restructured deals that will push money into the future.

[BucsNBills]

As of right now we have $83 million in open cap space for 2024, unless OTC is wrong.

[Buc2]

I feel the majority of NFL franchises would temporarily torpedo their cap to win a Superbowl. The Jags or Texans or Cardinals or other perennially bad franchise would anyways, and guess what, we are historically a bad franchise. The cost was worth it.

Getting out of this hole is going to not be fun, but it's doable.

Our first starting point is we have a $56.5 million debt we have to pay down to not just neutrality but some manner of positive number. We need a floor of $10 million just to sign our rookie draftees, assuming we keep the same picks without trades. We will also need at least some space for veteran free agents, as well as some to resign our own dudes.

----

The next thing we have to realize in pursuit of these goals is that two players can be designated as post-6/1 cuts for cap purposes even if we cut them prior to the league new year. So, who would we cut who would net us the biggest bag of money?

Which comes to designating those two post-June cuts. The following players would greater than $4 million in savings:

- Donovan Smith, $15.2 million. Good as gone.
- Mike Evans, $14.5 million. Fuck no.
- Shaq Barrett, $14.6 million. Interesting but complicated by his injury, would need an injury settlement, I don't know how that would work.
- Shaq Mason, $8.5 million. Likely.
- CD3, $6 million. Unlikely.
- Russell Gage, $5 million. Would lead to more dead cap than savings.
- Lenny Fournette, $4.9 million. Rumored to be true, asked for his release, goodbye friend.
- Cam Brate, $4 million. Possible.

Pick your favorite two. I would go with Donovan Smith because he offers the biggest savings with the minimal amount of disruption, and Lenny cuz he doesn't wanna be here, but reasonable people can disagree. Choose your own adventure.

My scenario: cut Donovan Smith and Leonard Fournette, save over 20 million, now -$36 million in cap space.

---

Next step is restructures, wherein we convert base salary into signing bonuses for the duration of the contract. Here's where we save the money, but we need players to play along. Possible savings by restructures:

- Godwin 14 million
- Evans 10 million
- Barrett 9.8 million
- CD3 6.7 million
- Vita Vea 8.5 million
- Jensen 8.5 million
- Mason 4.7 million
- Gage 4.4 million

Maximum savings here is $66.6 million in cap space. Restructuring Evans, Godwin, Vita, and Jensen gets us $41 million in savings, which brings us up to $5 million in cap space after designating Smith and Fournette as post June 1 cuts. Everything else is gravy on top, but there's another $25 million to be had.

---

Then we can go for regular cuts. I'd assume Brate is gone for 2 million in savings, he's not what he once was. Succop can be cut for another 3.25 million in savings. Now we're up to $10 million in savings assuming those prior moves, which is what we need for starters to resign our rookies.

Should be interesting moves in the next two weeks.

That was a lot of work, Cheb. I don't know enough about the subject to argue. So I'll just hope you're right and this team can manage the current Cap Hell sufficiently to ward of major suckage for the upcoming season.

[Bootz]

As of right now we have $83 million in open cap space for 2024, unless OTC is wrong.

OTC assumes the cap will increase up to $256 million. That would be an increase of about $32 million. I'd temper those expectations but if that happened that's amazing.


Spotrac has a more conservative increase assumed, $235 million.

[Buc2]

Holy Hell! It looks like they broke him.

[Primeminister]

We got a ring and one of the most glorious seasons in NFL history. We signed the GOAT, had a great D, scored a ton of points, retiree Drew Brees and smoked the Saints in their house and won a title in our own house. Add in the boat parade and I dare anyone to say it wasn't worth it.

Yep even if it means we barely field a team this year I would do 2020 all over again.

[Bootz]

Bucs fans 2034 after the Bucs finish sub .500 and fire their 5th coach in the last 10 years: "Fucking sucks but at least we won a Super Bowl 14 years ago!"

Like when does the high wear off?

[BucsNBills]

Bucs fans 2034 after the Bucs finish sub .500 and fire their 5th coach in the last 10 years: "Fucking sucks but at least we won a Super Bowl 14 years ago!"

Like when does the high wear off?

I mean, it was only a couple years ago. But 2023 is the first year we're actually paying for that ring, and will pretty much be the only year we feel much pain as a result. Next year we're in much better shape and can manipulate cap if needed, allowing us to truly turn the page and start the new era of Bucs ball. This season is basically a filler year for us. Sort of like when a sitcom does a flashback episode. All that matters in 2023 is figuring out if Trask can play if he ends up being the starter, getting the Oline solid, and hopefully get a high pick for a QB. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant.

To give you a straight answer, I think 2024 is the time when the high wears off, because our 2020 and 2021 highlights are all we'll have to get us through this dogshit season.

[Bootz]

Bucs fans 2034 after the Bucs finish sub .500 and fire their 5th coach in the last 10 years: "Fucking sucks but at least we won a Super Bowl 14 years ago!"

Like when does the high wear off?

I mean, it was only a couple years ago. But 2023 is the first year we're actually paying for that ring, and will pretty much be the only year we feel much pain as a result. Next year we're in much better shape and can manipulate cap if needed, allowing us to truly turn the page and start the new era of Bucs ball. This season is basically a filler year for us. Sort of like when a sitcom does a flashback episode. All that matters in 2023 is figuring out if Trask can play if he ends up being the starter, getting the Oline solid, and hopefully get a high pick for a QB. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant.

To give you a straight answer, I think 2024 is the time when the high wears off, because our 2020 and 2021 highlights are all we'll have to get us through this dogshit season.

Fools gold. People are lying to themselves. That high is gone and I'll tell you why. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been such a campaign for Leftwich, our SB winning OC, to be fired. People also wouldn't be putting Bowles on the hot seat.

[MJW]

I mean, it was only a couple years ago. But 2023 is the first year we're actually paying for that ring, and will pretty much be the only year we feel much pain as a result. Next year we're in much better shape and can manipulate cap if needed, allowing us to truly turn the page and start the new era of Bucs ball. This season is basically a filler year for us. Sort of like when a sitcom does a flashback episode. All that matters in 2023 is figuring out if Trask can play if he ends up being the starter, getting the Oline solid, and hopefully get a high pick for a QB. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant.

To give you a straight answer, I think 2024 is the time when the high wears off, because our 2020 and 2021 highlights are all we'll have to get us through this dogshit season.

Fools gold. People are lying to themselves. That high is gone and I'll tell you why. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been such a campaign for Leftwich, our SB winning OC, to be fired. People also wouldn't be putting Bowles on the hot seat.

It's really simple:

Teams either need to be competing for titles, or building towards competing for titles. That's the standard, as it should be.

The fans who aren't kidding themselves already known the 2023 Bucs are neither. This season will be about Bowles and Licht trying to save their jobs and Kyle Trask trying to prove he has a place in the league. It's not even a "transition" year. It's a meaningless, dead year that will be mercifully forgotten like 2013 or 2008.