Time to blow it up

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Snake
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Snake »

You don’t trade Vea, Winfield, Godwin, Otton etc and expect to ever get better.

Those are good to great players and on the right side of the aging curve despite some having a lot of mileage.

But, guys like Donovan Smith who are overpaid respective to their performance, and getting long in the tooth? Time to cut em loose because the equation no longer makes sense for a non-SB contender.
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King Bootz
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

*Licht walks into the Glazers office*

Licht: "We need to get rid of most of this roster. It's terrible and we're going nowhere with it"

Glazer brother/sister: "Really? Who put it together?"

Licht: "**crickets** Hmmm maybe we can retool here or there"

*Walks out, tail between legs*
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MJW
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:56 pm *Licht walks into the Glazers office*

Licht: "We need to get rid of most of this roster. It's terrible and we're going nowhere with it"

Glazer brother/sister: "Really? Who put it together?"

Licht: "**crickets** Hmmm maybe we can retool here or there"

*Walks out, tail between legs*
In a sane universe, Licht would say, "Yeah, we had a three year window. I played it to the bone. Used every trick I could. I built the 2020 championship roster. I brought back virtually the same roster in 2021. With almost no resources, I built a 53 that was probably good enough to win the NFC if healthy. We all understood that the bill would come due when I did these things. It's due now. Nothing ANYONE can do with the 2023 team will make it legitimately competitive. You can move forward with me and help me start building for the next 2020, or you can have someone else do it. But that's the reality."

But we don't live in a sane universe.
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Snake
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Snake »

I would frame it like:

“we went all in. We came out with a ring year 1, were 1 stop away from NFC Champ berth in year 2, and the wheels came off in year 3 when we tried to stretch it. It’s time to reevaluate the roster with Tommy being gone and reset the cap.”

Maybe they actually end up doing that. All we know is Bowles is here and the offensive staff has changed.

Edit: or what she said lol
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Brazen331
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Brazen331 »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:53 am
Brazen331 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:41 am Let’s say we have an owner who wants full rebuild. He fires Licht, keeps Bowles for a couple years, but whatever.

So if you were GM, how do we go about this? I’m assuming perhaps we want Brady to process the paperwork now so we absorb the full cap hit this year? Perhaps not?

What players do we have who could bring back assets in trades? Who do we cut outright? What players already on the roster are wanted for the future?
I wanted to do a new thread, but in short the smart play:

You save legit money cutting Lenny, Brate, Gage, Donovan Fat-Ass, Succop, and Vaughn. Do it.
You save about $10 mil cutting Mason, but I'd rather extend him if possible.
You save over $12 mil by unloading White. I sell him off to the highest bidder. He's not that guy.

You void-year who you HAVE to in order to field a team, but you don't kick the can a nickel more than you have to. You take all the Cap Hits logistically possible NOW.

You trust kids whenever possible - Trask, White, etc. When not, you're looking at bargain basement free agents and you give them one year deals to hold places at get to 53.

You abso-fucking-lutely do not bring in a veteran quarterback who costs you any real money. There's no upside in doing so.

You strongly consider trading back from #19 in the event you're not 100% in love with someone, especially if you can leverage value in future picks by doing so.

You accept that you're going to be total ass in 2023. BUT, you're able to lock up your young guys who deserve it in 2024 - Wirfs, AWJR, etc. You've stockpiled some draft capital, hopefully, and you'll be picking high. The cap skies begin to clear almost immediately.

That's a rough outline.

Or, Plan B...you void year the crap out of everyone, sign whatever short-term veterans you can afford, bring in like the 22nd best quarterback in the league in Derek Carr, put yourself in cap hell again next year, deny your pups valuable reps and development, and win 6 games instead of 3 this year. And 3 the year after when you basically do what I just said anyway.

I know what I'd choose.
Good write up. Wirfs and Winfield are really the only pieces I would consider worthy of building around. Godwin is nice but if we can get some decent draft picks for him I would ship him off. I really want to get rid of Devin White. We picked an ILB #5 overall and he didn’t turn into Ray Lewis. That’s a busted pick pretty much. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him.
The Outsider
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by The Outsider »

Miller4Prez64 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:26 pm
The Outsider wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:05 pm

With a healthy Ryan Jensen and simply better than outright terrible LT play and this team can make a playoff run with Derek Carr.

1. Carr has never been an awful NFL QB. He's not spectacular, but he's definitely in that fringe top-10 group. He's also a hell of a lot more mobile than Brady so he can somewhat mitigate our o-line problems with his legs. Not as a runner but he's pretty good at escaping the pocket.

2. We had a very injury riddled season on both sides of the football. We need to get another pass rusher in the event that Shaq doesn't come back 100% and an upgrade at LT would be nice but overall the team is pretty solid if healthy.

3. Hopefully our new offensive coaching staff is better than what we just had.
Derek Carr had a better OL, better WR1, better TE and waaaay better running game than what we had last year, yet he didn’t perform and got benched.

Carr has been in the NFL for 9 years and has lost nearly 60% of his games and has never won a playoff game. All his fault? Of course not, but he wouldn’t exactly be coming into an ideal situation here. He’s also not coming cheap.

If we want to try and win now this season (still maintain that’s a bad idea), then you gotta get someone cheaper so you can fill out the rest of the roster.
Waller was hurt most of the year. I think Adams and Evans are a lot closer in talent and ability than you do, apparently. Our offensive line is better than theirs is when healthy. As Jensen isn't injury prone I don't expect him to suddenly cease to exist as a football player. Yeah, he had a great running game last year but so much of that was simply Josh Jacobs being ridiculous. We had a bad running game because of 3 factors: injuries to the o-line, stubborn play calling and incompetent game planning, and misplaced loyalty to poorly performing personell (Lenny).

Wanna guess what the Raiders ranked in defense for the duration of his tenure there? If you guessed 32nd/32 teams you're correct!

Carr has not been and never was the problem with the Raiders. He's going to go somewhere like NYJ or even Pittsburgh and a lot of people are going to realize they're wrong about him.

Edit: Actually, if I'm the Lions I'm taking a serious look at Carr, too. He's a definite upgrade from Goff.
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King Bootz
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:00 pm
King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:56 pm *Licht walks into the Glazers office*

Licht: "We need to get rid of most of this roster. It's terrible and we're going nowhere with it"

Glazer brother/sister: "Really? Who put it together?"

Licht: "**crickets** Hmmm maybe we can retool here or there"

*Walks out, tail between legs*
In a sane universe, Licht would say, "Yeah, we had a three year window. I played it to the bone. Used every trick I could. I built the 2020 championship roster. I brought back virtually the same roster in 2021. With almost no resources, I built a 53 that was probably good enough to win the NFC if healthy. We all understood that the bill would come due when I did these things. It's due now. Nothing ANYONE can do with the 2023 team will make it legitimately competitive. You can move forward with me and help me start building for the next 2020, or you can have someone else do it. But that's the reality."

But we don't live in a sane universe.
Kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth here. In 1 post you stated the GM should care about the future. Licht does that by not shipping out guys like Godwin, Otton, White, Evans, Wirfs, Jensen, Vea, DW CD3, Shaw, AWJ. Most of these guys are part of our future. Then in another breath you're saying he needs to blow it all up, which would include getting rid of guys who would be part of the future.

I think more than anything your mind is made up and you're smart enough to know that him imploding this roster shortens his leash. So you wanna him to make his own noose. I mean, okay? But he's still the Bucs GM. He's not going to sabotage himself for "the greater good" because you want him too and he shouldn't.
Brazen331
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Brazen331 »

King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:12 pm
MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:00 pm

In a sane universe, Licht would say, "Yeah, we had a three year window. I played it to the bone. Used every trick I could. I built the 2020 championship roster. I brought back virtually the same roster in 2021. With almost no resources, I built a 53 that was probably good enough to win the NFC if healthy. We all understood that the bill would come due when I did these things. It's due now. Nothing ANYONE can do with the 2023 team will make it legitimately competitive. You can move forward with me and help me start building for the next 2020, or you can have someone else do it. But that's the reality."

But we don't live in a sane universe.
Kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth here. In 1 post you stated the GM should care about the future. Licht does that by not shipping out guys like Godwin, Otton, White, Evans, Wirfs, Jensen, Vea, DW CD3, Shaw, AWJ. Most of these guys are part of our future. Then in another breath you're saying he needs to blow it all up, which would include getting rid of guys who would be part of the future.

I think more than anything your mind is made up and you're smart enough to know that him imploding this roster shortens his leash. So you wanna him to make his own noose. I mean, okay? But he's still the Bucs GM. He's not going to sabotage himself for "the greater good" because you want him too and he shouldn't.
Actually, he should sacrifice himself for the sake of the team whether MJW wants him to or not. Seems like you are advocating for Licht to only think of himself and not the team, players and fans.
Miller4Prez64
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

The Outsider wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:06 pm
Miller4Prez64 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:26 pm

Derek Carr had a better OL, better WR1, better TE and waaaay better running game than what we had last year, yet he didn’t perform and got benched.

Carr has been in the NFL for 9 years and has lost nearly 60% of his games and has never won a playoff game. All his fault? Of course not, but he wouldn’t exactly be coming into an ideal situation here. He’s also not coming cheap.

If we want to try and win now this season (still maintain that’s a bad idea), then you gotta get someone cheaper so you can fill out the rest of the roster.
Waller was hurt most of the year. I think Adams and Evans are a lot closer in talent and ability than you do, apparently. Our offensive line is better than theirs is when healthy. As Jensen isn't injury prone I don't expect him to suddenly cease to exist as a football player. Yeah, he had a great running game last year but so much of that was simply Josh Jacobs being ridiculous. We had a bad running game because of 3 factors: injuries to the o-line, stubborn play calling and incompetent game planning, and misplaced loyalty to poorly performing personell (Lenny).

Wanna guess what the Raiders ranked in defense for the duration of his tenure there? If you guessed 32nd/32 teams you're correct!

Carr has not been and never was the problem with the Raiders. He's going to go somewhere like NYJ or even Pittsburgh and a lot of people are going to realize they're wrong about him.

Edit: Actually, if I'm the Lions I'm taking a serious look at Carr, too. He's a definite upgrade from Goff.
I will give you a fair point on Waller being injured. But our TE room is still pretty garbage regardless.

No way is Mike Evans as good as Davante Adams right now. Adams just had 100 catches for 1500 yards and 14 TDs. Evans just had the worst year of his career. That second Carolina game has people forgetting just how bad Evans was this year.

The Raiders defense was indeed bad last year, no arguing it. But guess what, so will ours if we sign Derek Carr. You realize that our entire defense outside of White, Vea, Carlton and AWJ are FAs, right? We can’t sign Derek Carr and expect to retain our defense or be able to get quality replacements for everyone. That’s the whole point, Carr is going to come expensive and we won’t be able to field a team around him. If you wanna try and win now, you gotta go cheaper at QB so you can keep the defense intact and possibly sign offensive upgrades.

Also, you are way off on the Goff thing. Jared Goff was significantly better than Carr was this past season. Carr threw twice as many picks with less TDs and a significantly worse QB rating. Goff’s 2022 season seriously went under the radar, he was top 10 in about every category you would want from a QB.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by The Outsider »

My point about Evans is that guys have down years. I'm not expecting this season to become the standard of play from Mike Evans. My point about the Raiders defense is that they've been the worst in the league for the entire time Carr has played in the league if you average defensive stats out for the last 9-10 seasons. He's had shit defenses. Every. Year.

Also, I'm not way off on the Goff thing. You seem to be someone who judges players off of the previous season of play alone, for some reason. Goff had a decent year, that doesn't mean he's made some great leap into being something more than decidedly below-average.
Miller4Prez64
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

Jared Goff’s career QB rating is better than Carr’s too. It’s not a single season thing, career wise they are close but most recent season Goff was way better. Why should the Lions want to swap QBs? The guy they have just had a top 10 season with the coaching staff and players they already have, but they should kick him to the curb for someone who threw twice as many picks and got benched?

Jared Goff is a way better QB than people give him credit for. McVay scapegoated the dude and people act like he’s a scrub. Definitely not elite, but he’s damn good.
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Doctor
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Doctor »

What does "blow up" mean?

Can someone point to when the chiefs or eagles blew the team up to reach the Super Bowl?
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Backside
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Backside »

Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 pm What does "blow up" mean?

Can someone point to when the chiefs or eagles blew the team up to reach the Super Bowl?
Eagles have blown it up since their last Super Bowl win not long ago.

Unless we have a Mahomes invoking the Chiefs is pretty pointless. But they have been constantly restructuring the team around him to stay on top.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Buc2 »

The Browns "blow it up" every other year or so. How has that worked out for them?
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by _MB_ »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:37 pm The Browns "blow it up" every other year or so. How has that worked out for them?
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MJW
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by MJW »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:37 pm The Browns "blow it up" every other year or so. How has that worked out for them?
It's pretty simple. If you don't have good organizational structure, good scouting, and sound process, nothing you do will help.

The argument against maximizing resources amounts to, "Sometimes people invest in shit like Enron, so investing must be bad."
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MJW
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by MJW »

Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 pm What does "blow up" mean?

Can someone point to when the chiefs or eagles blew the team up to reach the Super Bowl?
I've explained it to you personally at least a half-dozen times, and I explained the actual process in specific detail in this very thread. I will, one final time, speak to you as I would a C- high school student:

- Frontload as much cap debt as we can afford to while still fielding a team. In this case, simply avoid adding BS years to contracts to push dead cap into future years.
- Don't commit future money to players who will not be on the team when we're genuinely competitive again, either in free agency or on our own team.
- Use valuable practice reps and playing time to identify and grow those players who will be, as opposed to giving those resources to players who will not be on our team when we're genuinely competitive again.
- Maximize draft capital by ignoring the temptation to address immediate needs simply because they're immediate needs (Luke Goedeke.)

If you still don't understand the process, I don't know what to tell you.

If you still don't see it as the logical way forward, I've been awaiting your counter-argument for some time now.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by 13F11B »

Snake wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:00 pm Maybe they actually end up doing that. All we know is Bowles is here and the offensive staff has changed.

Edit: or what she said lol
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no offensive staff currently. This is one reason why I think Brady retiring might result in Bowles getting fired. If the OC and new coaches had been hired there would be no way that happens, but with no one hired the owners could decide to pull the plug on the entire staff now. Bring in a new coaching team and give them four years. One to get the cap mess fixed and two to build a competitive roster. The fourth year would be so they have a year to renegotiate should the three-year plan go well.
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King Bootz
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

Backside wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:24 pm
Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 pm What does "blow up" mean?

Can someone point to when the chiefs or eagles blew the team up to reach the Super Bowl?
Eagles have blown it up since their last Super Bowl win not long ago.

Unless we have a Mahomes invoking the Chiefs is pretty pointless. But they have been constantly restructuring the team around him to stay on top.
They didn't do it all in 1 offseason. They've done it the right way. Retool each and every year. Draft well, keep guys who are key to the operation, get rid of guys who don't fit, improve where you can. Andy Reid has been gone for 10 years and there are still 3 guys he drafted on the Eagles who are still highly productive players (Jason Kelce, Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox).
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Backside »

King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:05 pm
Backside wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:24 pm

Eagles have blown it up since their last Super Bowl win not long ago.

Unless we have a Mahomes invoking the Chiefs is pretty pointless. But they have been constantly restructuring the team around him to stay on top.
They didn't do it all in 1 offseason. They've done it the right way. Retool each and every year. Draft well, keep guys who are key to the operation, get rid of guys who don't fit, improve where you can. Andy Reid has been gone for 10 years and there are still 3 guys he drafted on the Eagles who are still highly productive players (Jason Kelce, Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox).
All of those things they’ve done should be what the Bucs are trying to emulate. And we can call it whatever we want.

Good tidbit on Reid drafted players too, kinda crazy.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:52 pm
Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:37 pm The Browns "blow it up" every other year or so. How has that worked out for them?
It's pretty simple. If you don't have good organizational structure, good scouting, and sound process, nothing you do will help.

The argument against maximizing resources amounts to, "Sometimes people invest in shit like Enron, so investing must be bad."
It’s also worth noting that those teams weren’t trying to be tricky with the salary cap to the extent we have. There is a reason why teams just don’t restructure contracts around and ignore the salary cap every year, because it cripples your franchise in the long run. It’s crazy how people think Jason Licht found some cheat code to getting around this.

I just imagine one of those clickbait ads with Licht’s face on it saying “NFL owners HATE him. 10 secrets to getting around the salary cap and never having to rebuild.”
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King Bootz
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

Backside wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:11 pm
King Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:05 pm

They didn't do it all in 1 offseason. They've done it the right way. Retool each and every year. Draft well, keep guys who are key to the operation, get rid of guys who don't fit, improve where you can. Andy Reid has been gone for 10 years and there are still 3 guys he drafted on the Eagles who are still highly productive players (Jason Kelce, Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox).
All of those things they’ve done should be what the Bucs are trying to emulate. And we can call it whatever we want.

Good tidbit on Reid drafted players too, kinda crazy.
Our goal should be no different from any of the other 31 teams. To get better every year and improve this roster the best way.

"Blowing it up" just seems like making moves to say you made moves. What logical reason is there to get rid of productive players when you don't have to? If you can't afford them and there are no other options, that's 1 thing. It happens. But don't convince me cutting or trading Vita Vea or Ryan Jensen or Chris Godwin is in the best interest of the team.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Buc2 »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:52 pm
Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:37 pm The Browns "blow it up" every other year or so. How has that worked out for them?
It's pretty simple. If you don't have good organizational structure, good scouting, and sound process, nothing you do will help.

The argument against maximizing resources amounts to, "Sometimes people invest in shit like Enron, so investing must be bad."
So you believe the Bucs have good organizational structure, scouting, and process that they can do a Browns-type blowup and be successful at the other end?

Personally, I do not. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I think this franchise is as woefully run as the Browns, but I certainly don't think they're anywhere close to being as well run as, say, the Steelers. Like the Bengals and Eagles, the Bucs organization has managed to fall into a few good seasons every decade or so, but they've never shown themselves to be a perennially well-run organization.
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King Bootz
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:20 pm
MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:52 pm

It's pretty simple. If you don't have good organizational structure, good scouting, and sound process, nothing you do will help.

The argument against maximizing resources amounts to, "Sometimes people invest in shit like Enron, so investing must be bad."
So you believe the Bucs have good organizational structure, scouting, and process that they can do a Browns-type blowup and be successful at the other end?

Personally, I do not. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I think this franchise is as woefully run as the Browns, but I certainly don't think they're anywhere close to being as well run as, say, the Steelers. Like the Bengals and Eagles, the Bucs organization has managed to fall into a few good seasons every decade or so, but they've never shown themselves to be a perennially well-run organization.
Well she basically completely ran down the Bucs ownership and leadership structure, saying no one reports to anyone or does anything right. So I don't think she feels the Bucs have a good organizational structure.

Then again she expects that this same organization with bad structure to act like one with "good structure" and have this perceived fire sale so I really don't know.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:20 pm
MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:52 pm

It's pretty simple. If you don't have good organizational structure, good scouting, and sound process, nothing you do will help.

The argument against maximizing resources amounts to, "Sometimes people invest in shit like Enron, so investing must be bad."
So you believe the Bucs have good organizational structure, scouting, and process that they can do a Browns-type blowup and be successful at the other end?

Personally, I do not. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I think this franchise is as woefully run as the Browns, but I certainly don't think they're anywhere close to being as well run as, say, the Steelers. Like the Bengals and Eagles, the Bucs organization has managed to fall into a few good seasons every decade or so, but they've never shown themselves to be a perennially well-run organization.
If you dont believe the franchise to be well run, why would we want to handicap them by sacrificing future resources? Especially when sacrificing these resources may still not be enough to get this team into the playoffs in 2023.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Jonny »

With Brady retiring, Bowles is truly dead weight. I hope the Glazers don't feel compelled to be good guys willing to give him a "fair shot". Even if Bowles may deserve it, the franchise and it's fans don't deserve to sit through another year of a Bowles coaches team based on what his track record says. Much easier to hire a great offensive mind to be the head coach than a OC of a sinking ship.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Navybuc »

I just don’t think it’s time to blow it up yet. There’s still so much talent at WR, on the OL, Vea, Barrett, AWJ. A guy like Jimmy G…maybe Sam Darnold…can come in here and put up some points with five good lineman in front of them and Evans/Godwin. We need a TE badly (ahem Michael Mayer). I think there’s a lot of dead weight we can eliminate to clear cap space, like D.Smith, White, Brate, etc. Again, though, I’m worried we don’t have the right coach here to get back to the playoffs. I just hate saying the word “start over” when there’s still so much talent on this roster.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by King Bootz »

So if the Bucs aren't good enough to win the NFC South, I can't wait to hear what teams are going to be good enough to do so.

I can't wait to laugh my ass off. Let's go.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Buc2 »

Miller4Prez64 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:43 pm
Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:20 pm

So you believe the Bucs have good organizational structure, scouting, and process that they can do a Browns-type blowup and be successful at the other end?

Personally, I do not. Now, don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean I think this franchise is as woefully run as the Browns, but I certainly don't think they're anywhere close to being as well run as, say, the Steelers. Like the Bengals and Eagles, the Bucs organization has managed to fall into a few good seasons every decade or so, but they've never shown themselves to be a perennially well-run organization.
If you dont believe the franchise to be well run, why would we want to handicap them by sacrificing future resources? Especially when sacrificing these resources may still not be enough to get this team into the playoffs in 2023.
Um, I never said I wanted them to sacrifice future resources. Or are you just asking this question of the "general audience" here?
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Digital_Damage
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Digital_Damage »

This kinda feels like Morris all over again.
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Miller4Prez64
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Miller4Prez64 »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:16 pm
Miller4Prez64 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:43 pm

If you dont believe the franchise to be well run, why would we want to handicap them by sacrificing future resources? Especially when sacrificing these resources may still not be enough to get this team into the playoffs in 2023.
Um, I never said I wanted them to sacrifice future resources. Or are you just asking this question of the "general audience" here?
I guess just adding to overall debate of the thread I suppose.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Buc2 »

Miller4Prez64 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:19 pm
Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:16 pm

Um, I never said I wanted them to sacrifice future resources. Or are you just asking this question of the "general audience" here?
I guess just adding to overall debate of the thread I suppose.
Thanks for clarifying. I'm more in the same boat as Navybuc...no need to blow the entire thing up. There are good pieces here to work with without blowing up the entire pirate ship. QB & OL have to be addressed, though, along with a couple of positions on defense (edge especially). Hell, maybe just OL. Trask could be serviceable behind a good OL. Who knows?
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by 13F11B »

Buc2 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:20 pm So you believe the Bucs have good organizational structure, scouting, and process that they can do a Browns-type blowup and be successful at the other end?
I do not believe the Buccaneers have a great organization. if they did the team around Brady would not have been a cluster fuck this year. I do not think they are Browns incompetent but they are not the Steelers or Patriots.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Doctor »

MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:59 pm
Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:20 pm What does "blow up" mean?

Can someone point to when the chiefs or eagles blew the team up to reach the Super Bowl?
I've explained it to you personally at least a half-dozen times, and I explained the actual process in specific detail in this very thread. I will, one final time, speak to you as I would a C- high school student:
Was I asking you, princess? No.

We've heard you're silly plans and they've been smacked down by others already.
_MB_ wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:03 pm
MJW wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:53 am You accept that you're going to be total ass in 2023.
You're fired.
Yup.

Snake wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:44 pm You don’t trade Vea, Winfield, Godwin, Otton etc and expect to ever get better.
Thank you!
Do we need to trim the fat and make some cap cuts on some guys? Sure, but that's literally every season. But someone suggested trading Vea, like whaaaat?


Brazen331 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm Good write up. Wirfs and Winfield are really the only pieces I would consider worthy of building around. Godwin is nice but if we can get some decent draft picks for him I would ship him off. I really want to get rid of Devin White. We picked an ILB #5 overall and he didn’t turn into Ray Lewis. That’s a busted pick pretty much. Let someone else make the mistake of paying him.
Okay, no. Hold up. I'm sorry but I have to call this out Brazen, this is probably the most dogshit take you've ever had.
For one, having the measuring bar being THE Greatest MLB of All Time is pretty stupid. I don't care how high he's picked.

Second, I don't know what the hell you are smoking to think White wasn't insanely instrumental in our playoff run. The entire defense ran through him. Dude balled out and hit that high ceiling every god damn game. Double-digit tackles every time, which would sometimes be 2 or 3 times anyone else on the team. I don't think any other defender ever had a game with more than 7. (Ray Lewis had only one such game during his first chip run btw)

Say what you will about his flaws or his next contract or whatever, but make no mistake. We don't draft White, we don't have a second Lombardi. Period. Full stop.
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Re: Time to blow it up

Post by Snake »

I personally believe keeping Bowles is a mistake. I don’t think he’s very good. and very good coaching is so crucial.

I think they botched that hire and everything around that process. No matter how much they trim the fat on the roster…he’s an anchor.
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